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Son has a transgendered child in his kindergarten class (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter fantasycurse42
- Start date
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Not sure where you got A) me getting involved in their business from this thread. I don’t consider anonymously posting a question for opinions about anonymous families as butting in B) where I’m teaching my kid to be judgy
Maybe you should stop jumping to conclusions, it’s not cool.
![[scooter]](/data/avatars/m/22/22287.jpg?1659477690){kind=avatar}
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
A friend's kid was happy with dressing like either Nemo or Dory. As long as it got to dress like a fish.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
You changed accounts to have a higher like/post count. We established this months ago, the saddest thing I’ve encountered on the innerwebs. After ignoring numerous posts of yours for months, I saw multiple in here, decided to remind you of this.Epic Problem said:
Congrats on getting that percentage up on your new account.
El Floppo
Footballguy
A couple of thoughts about this...STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
There's a recent thread here about first celebrity crushes. Think about yours... I'd guess it happened pre-sexual activity and shouldve given you an idea about your ultimate sexuality... unless you were dreaming about Lee Majors and ended up straight.
Have you ever discussed this with gay friends? Obviously anecdotal, but like me. every single one I've talked to about it (I've known and talked to a lot of gay men and women) knew before they hit puberty, some of them remembering as far back as being very little. Just like I remember looking at the woman who was the hostess of Romper Room and feeling funny.
Im sure you're using the word "worry about" because you're protective of your kids and want things to be easy and happy for them. But imagine if parents weren't actually worried about that...kids could still be happy, but without the judgements of their parents and society hanging over who they love. I'd imagine all the difficulty of being gay would disappear and they could just lead the same messed up lives as straight people without having to deal with all the rest of the negativism.
Epic Problem
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
My son at 2 would’ve been as happy as Peppa Pig or Woody from Toy Story.
I have no issue with anyone being transgendered, none... I just don’t think it’s something that a parent should influence at all. It should be an individuals decision when they fully understand that is what they want. At the age of 2, my opinion is the parents are playing a major role in that.
Epic Problem
Footballguy
MOP could tell FC that he lacks self awareness and I wouldn’t even consider calling him a hypocrite. That’s how far out of MOPs league this clown is.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
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Epic Problem
Footballguy
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Epic Problem
Footballguy
On how many different levels are you trying to embarrass yourself in this thread?
I mean you are trying to, right? You have to be
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I’ve touched a nerve, I get it. Obviously someone who is that concerned about their like percentages thinks someone can actually embarrass themselves on an anonymous board.
You did it man, you got the percentage up. Don’t get angry with me, I’m trying to be supportive.
Back to the topic at hand now...
El Floppo
Footballguy
The older sibling of a kid in floppinho's Pre-K was gender non-specific. Long hair, girls and boys clothes for as long as we were there...so the kid was 3 or 4. His parents were theater business folk- very liberal and progressive. I'd have gone through FCs wondering based on that, except once you met the kid...even at that preschool age, it was clear the kid didn't self-register as boy or girl yet, and the parents acted like parents...looking after the kid's needs and desires and allowing them to dress and act and present however the kid liked. The younger sibling in floppinho's class was very boy-boy in all facets of his life.
That's the only kid I've been around like that...and it never occurred to me to question or judge the choices somebody else's happy, loved, fantastically behaved and supported kid and their parents made.
That's the only kid I've been around like that...and it never occurred to me to question or judge the choices somebody else's happy, loved, fantastically behaved and supported kid and their parents made.
Epic Problem
Footballguy
I can’t even begin to explain how stupid this crackpot theory of yours is. Please don’t ever stop reminding us that you not only buy into, but actually conceived it.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I think that the entire transgender issue is extremely complicated and that, both medically and socially, we really don't have a great idea of how to look at it or handle it. Anyone dealing with those body issues, as either the individual or the parent, has my sympathies.
There aren't a lot of easy answers right now and I'm not sure that there aren't a lot of well meaning individuals on both "sides" if the issue creating more damage than healing.
The discussion of "identity" versus "mental illness" is not an easy one and not one that is prone to balanced and reasoned discussion by either side. Why do people think it's appropriate to tell someone that the way that they feel gender-wise is illegitimate? How do you tell someone that how they identify isn't ok? And yet, there are folks with body dysphoria conditions like anorexia or folks who believe with all of their being that hands/arms/legs of theirs don't belong on them and want to chop them off, and the vast majority of people would say that these are mental illnesses because we can clearly identify the damage and negative consequences to these beliefs.
So then you start to look at the effects of folks who have gone through gender changes to see whether hormones and surgery to remove body parts is a positive or negative and the little data that there is seems to be not much of a clear answer. On the positive side, a majority of those studied reported feeling happier. On the negative side, there was an overall very low rate of resolution to other co-morbid psychological disorders (people with gender dysphoria have very very high rates of co-morbid psychological disorders). So they generally report being happier, at least initially, but still have a whole lot of issues. So is it success? Maybe yes, maybe no.
Studies also seem to indicate that around 80% of kids with gender dysphoria end up having it resolve at the on-set of puberty between the ages of 10-13. So how should that inform how parents and society handles the issue with their kid when the odds are that when puberty hits the individual will end up being ok with their sex matching their gender? Should they down play it in their kid and gently act against it knowing that the kid will likely "grow out of it", or do they go with it and encourage it either for the same reason or because their kid could end up being the 1-in-5 where it persists? Again, I'm not sure that there's a clear answer here.
Whatever the case, it's a really difficult situation with a lot of unanswered questions and I think that as a society we need to both have tremendous compassion while also having healthy real discussions. Any situation that intersects medicine, psychology and philosophy is going to be a difficult one to navigate.
There aren't a lot of easy answers right now and I'm not sure that there aren't a lot of well meaning individuals on both "sides" if the issue creating more damage than healing.
The discussion of "identity" versus "mental illness" is not an easy one and not one that is prone to balanced and reasoned discussion by either side. Why do people think it's appropriate to tell someone that the way that they feel gender-wise is illegitimate? How do you tell someone that how they identify isn't ok? And yet, there are folks with body dysphoria conditions like anorexia or folks who believe with all of their being that hands/arms/legs of theirs don't belong on them and want to chop them off, and the vast majority of people would say that these are mental illnesses because we can clearly identify the damage and negative consequences to these beliefs.
So then you start to look at the effects of folks who have gone through gender changes to see whether hormones and surgery to remove body parts is a positive or negative and the little data that there is seems to be not much of a clear answer. On the positive side, a majority of those studied reported feeling happier. On the negative side, there was an overall very low rate of resolution to other co-morbid psychological disorders (people with gender dysphoria have very very high rates of co-morbid psychological disorders). So they generally report being happier, at least initially, but still have a whole lot of issues. So is it success? Maybe yes, maybe no.
Studies also seem to indicate that around 80% of kids with gender dysphoria end up having it resolve at the on-set of puberty between the ages of 10-13. So how should that inform how parents and society handles the issue with their kid when the odds are that when puberty hits the individual will end up being ok with their sex matching their gender? Should they down play it in their kid and gently act against it knowing that the kid will likely "grow out of it", or do they go with it and encourage it either for the same reason or because their kid could end up being the 1-in-5 where it persists? Again, I'm not sure that there's a clear answer here.
Whatever the case, it's a really difficult situation with a lot of unanswered questions and I think that as a society we need to both have tremendous compassion while also having healthy real discussions. Any situation that intersects medicine, psychology and philosophy is going to be a difficult one to navigate.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
Here you go, Dr. Sponkfantasycurse42 said:
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/04/fdr-grew-up-in-a-dress-it-wasnt-always-blue-for-boys-and-pink-for-girls/237299/
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
How about I pose the questions as this:
At what age do you think a child is capable of identifying as the opposite sex with no influence from anyone else?
Is it possible parents could influence a young child into something they might not have done?
Honestly, I think if you were looking at the same pictures I saw, with parents dressing their son up fully as a girl for holiday photos around 2 years old, you’d scratch your head like me.
There is nothing wrong with being transgendered, nothing at all if that’s someone’s choice, but I think it’s naive to say there are NO parents out there who have behaved like this in being an influence. And while that’s few and far between, I think I’ve come across a pair.
At what age do you think a child is capable of identifying as the opposite sex with no influence from anyone else?
Is it possible parents could influence a young child into something they might not have done?
Honestly, I think if you were looking at the same pictures I saw, with parents dressing their son up fully as a girl for holiday photos around 2 years old, you’d scratch your head like me.
There is nothing wrong with being transgendered, nothing at all if that’s someone’s choice, but I think it’s naive to say there are NO parents out there who have behaved like this in being an influence. And while that’s few and far between, I think I’ve come across a pair.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
at the Lee Majors line. I see your point and agree with most of it. My only “disagreement” or rather still undecided stance on this issue is these aren’t kids who have definitively stated they identity as a boy/girl or decided they like boys or girls, they think (or know) that they like both. IMO more than most bisexual 12-14 year olds are confused.
At least the possibility exits that they are just confused. It’s also possible they aren’t.
I honestly don’t care what people want to do behind closed doors and encourage everyone to do whatever feels good as long as kids or animals aren’t involved. I try my best not to judge.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
It’s none of my business, and I would never get involved or say a word to my wife with my son around me, but from what I’ve gathered, I think the parents played a role here, and that’s the baseline of my opinion on this specific situation.boots11234 said:
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
Pretty sure you’re being just as judgmental and intolerant as you believe be the OP is.
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ShamrockPride
Footballguy
Oh look, we've predictably reached the ad hominem segment of the thread. Time to move it over to the Politics Forum. It'll fit right in there.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Limo Ditka lives & thrives on antagonizing strangers on the internet. It’s a pretty sad/weird thing. You could see how quickly he jumped in on this thread. He sits around and waits for it.
It took me some time to figure it out, but it’s pretty easy to twirl someone like that around on your finger once you understand them better.
fatguyinalittlecoat
Footballguy
If parents are able to influence their child’s gender identity, wouldn’t the bigger problem be that 99% of parents are influencing their kids to be cisgender? I mean, you’re focusing on this one kid that you think might be cis who is being raised trans, when It seems obvious that it is a zillion times more common for a trans kid to be raised as a cis kid. Why?
derek245583
Footballguy
FC isn't butting into this in the slightest. He simply asked a question on a message board and made some statements on dorky message board.
I really dont give a rip what other people do with their kids outfits, makeup, hairstyle pretty much ever. I do have a question though (semi hesitant to ask it)...
Is this person allowed to go to the restroom/change for gym in whichever gender locker/bathroom they want? Along the same lines, what is protocol for a "born boy" competing in girl sports....I legit have no idea...
I really dont give a rip what other people do with their kids outfits, makeup, hairstyle pretty much ever. I do have a question though (semi hesitant to ask it)...
Is this person allowed to go to the restroom/change for gym in whichever gender locker/bathroom they want? Along the same lines, what is protocol for a "born boy" competing in girl sports....I legit have no idea...
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
So annoying that people can’t post their opinions or beliefs for discussion without immediately being vilified.
We’re all works in progress and while gender identification and homosexuality/bisexuals have existed for thousands of years, it’s only now being discussed in this country recently. To pretend that everyone should just become magically enlightened of something they haven’t even considered in their entire lives is moronic.
STEADYMOBBIN 22
Footballguy
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DJackson10
Footballguy
Seems more assuming then actually knowing the whole story. My mom has a cousin who has a son who's always since he was young wanted to play with dolls, dress as a girl, etc etc. All things a "normal" little boy wouldn't do. At first Drs told them their son was experimenting with likes and dislikes kind of like trying new foods. It became more then that when he wanted to dress like a girl, put mom's lip stick on and do his nails. They took him to many Drs. They all basically said you can talk to him about it but don't try to influence a decision. You can give advice but don't force a decision on him at a young age. He could very well grow out of it himself but if they forced a decision and later when more mature realizes thats not who he is he could end up hating his parents. So my Mom's cousin and her husband have decided to let it ride out. This Transgendered child in your Son's grade could be having a similar experience. Are there crazy parents out there who will decide for the child for their own agenda? Absolutely and I think those parents are complete garbage Just like the far right parents who if they get a hint of their child is gay they try to send them to "conversion" therapy.fantasycurse42 said:
I suggest going up to this child's parents and be discrete about it. Act more like you want to be educated by why their child is that way and other things. Heck to not make it seem so awkward you can ask if theres anything you as another parent can do to help either with explaining the situation to your child or helping other parents be educated on the issue. Don't go balls out and make accusations about them not knowing the full situation. That just makes you look like the ignorant jackass and lead to issues.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
There's a boy in my daughter's grade (3rd) who was born a girl. I think he changed his name at 4 IIRC. My daughter always goes to his birthday parties. I think the dad has a hard time with it a bit. It can't be easy.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
When you say influence and when you say
"Anyways, these liberal ######## parents have basically decided to turn their boy into a girl, from what I’ve gathered. At 2, 3, 4, 5 years old, this isn’t really a decision a child makes without the influence of parents. These parents disgust me, I can only imagine the conversations these super liberal yuk yuks have - oh Jimmy wants to be a girl, we have this amazingtransgendered child and we’re so proud. That’s how I can picture their conversations going. "
You feel the parents look forward to this type of pain they themsleves are dealing with? Do you think they are looking with excitement for thier boy to show the slightest interest in a doll so they can parade their kid as transgender?
If you truly believe yourself when you say you have no issues with someone being transgender but only at age X should they fully understand what they want...what do you do at age 5 when they fully do not understand? My guess is the countless gay people that have killed themselves did so because at an age where their mother and father were suppose to be loving them would continue to force and suggest they be someone they are not comfortable being. So if you as a parent start accepting your child at 11? 16? 18? It may be too late. You may have caused enough damage where your kid is scared or dead.
Again, not an easy situation for anyone. Even feeling the way i do in an accepting manner it would still be difficult to live through.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
What about Barney Fife? I was *sniff* wantin summa dat but turned out str8er than a border wall....
El Floppo
Footballguy
Tbh, I've never really known any people as close friends who consider themselves bi, so no real clue there. As such, I've never bothered assuming if they were confused or not...I just take their word as truth on the matter, especially since it has nothing to do with me.
I see your point and agree with most of it. My only “disagreement” or rather still undecided stance on this issue is these aren’t kids who have definitively stated they identity as a boy/girl or decided they like boys or girls, they think (or know) that they like both. IMO more than most bisexual 12-14 year olds are confused.
At least the possibility exits that they are just confused. It’s also possible they aren’t.
I honestly don’t care what people want to do behind closed doors and encourage everyone to do whatever feels good as long as kids or animals aren’t involved. I try my best not to judge.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
You’re making the assumption it’s painful for them.
I’m making the opposite assumption.
I don’t really have much more to say to anyone who calls me ignorant.
boots11234
Footballguy
Seeing a boy say he’s a girl.Juxtatarot said:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
El Floppo
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
swing low, sweet chariots
what's a li'l bud-nipping twixt friends, know'm'sayin?
Epic Problem
Footballguy
I have absolutely zero issue with this when it comes to my interactions with FC.
Since he’s so hung up on the like system around here, go ahead and look at what comments in this thread that are garnering them. Majority of them are the ones calling him out for being exactly what he’s always been on this site.
And you know why that is? Becuse he has given me, as well as many others around here, plenty of evidence to pass that judgment upon him. And to be honest, I have no tolerance for his type and will continue to call him out on his bull#### when it’s appropriate.
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
Internet Message Board Ranger Rick checking in above.
Guy lives for likes, regulating anonymous message boards, and arguing with strangers.
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fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
DJackson10
Footballguy
My younger cousin is gay. He told my aunt and Uncle when he went to College my other Cousin his older brother (Who is 4 yrs older then me) he told when he was still in HS. My uncle apparently has had a hard time with it. Not because of political sides as my family is pretty liberal and always accepting (My Pop-Pop was always accepting and nice to my Uncle my aunt married who's Black) but I think he was having a harder time with the my older cousin was the sports jock of the family and your typical Dad's son same sports interest and other things. His youngest is an engineer like his father though so I think that has helped. My older cousin has been very protective of his bother and he was fuming when they weren't allowing Gay people to donate Blood for the shooting victims of the Orlando night club. We don't tell my Aunt's parents because they are incredible old school and would've disowned him. His aunt and Uncle and cousin on that side know and are fine with it. I think certain parents need some time with it. I have Aspergers and it's taken my dad an awfully long time to accept some of my short comings do to it. I didn't stay with interests we both had together when I was younger and he could never figure out why. He's still learning about how to hold certain conversations with me and what questions to ask when I explain things to him or tell him a story I had.
Grace Under Pressure
Footballguy
You have a diverse family and a lot to be proud of. Things aren't always easy between people who may have differences.
Chemical X
Footballguy
i think this country has a lot of issues, but one of the major ones imo is how worried about other people we have become. meaning, this is a young kid in your kid’s class. ona daily basis, does this effect you in any way, shape or form? i have a million of my own things to worry about, i hardly care if you’re trans, on fire, etc. do what you want: doesn’t effect me or what i do on a daily basis or my goals and it shouldn’t worry you.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Yes we are Thank You. My other Uncle is bi polar was married to my aunt from Bulgaria. They divorced but he's married to a Girl from North Jersey with an Irish family. They just had a baby who when she's 18 I'll be 48. Her oldest cousin after her is already a JR in College. She's the first granddaughter for my Grandma. I have 2nd cousins who are girls but she is my first actual cousin who's a girl.
comfortably numb
Footballguy
FTR i said your feelings were ignorant, not you. I can seperate peoples emotional reactions on things they may not understand with the person.
I've felt and said many ignorant things that don't necessarily equate to who i am. Just how misinformed or ignorant i was about a circumstance.
fantasycurse42
Footballguy Jr.
I think a lot of people are missing the ball here. The question isn’t “is it okay to be transgendered?”
More along the lines of if parents should influence their child’s behavior, and if it’s correct to do so from a very young age, in this case, at two years old.
But the pitchforks were out early, so we never made it to the appropriate topic.
DJackson10
Footballguy
Honestly think one of the major issues in this country is people worrying about how others raise their kids especially when it comes to issues like this very kind. Unless the issue effects you and or you see the child is being harmed and in a unsafe environment stay the #### out of it as its not of your business. Now if you are curious and want to educate yourself on it or want to help in some way make it more comfortable by all means go ahead but if they don't want you getting involved, you calmly thank them and say you understand and thats the last of it unless they bring it up to you.
DJackson10
Footballguy
To be fair to the other posters your initial post made what were taken as assumptions. It wasn't till a later post you said you saw Pictures your wife showed you from their Facebook of the child dressed that way at a younger age either.
To answer your question no it's not okay the parents should just deal with it as is. Help the child feel comfortable and then when they get older talk to them and let the child or young adult make the decision themselves. If the child is influenced at such a young age and gets out of HS goes to College or whatever and realizes who they are is completely different it could cause relationship issues for them with a spouse and or the parents.
