Specter Wants Mitchell-like Investigation (1 Viewer)

[Holy Schneikes]

Senator Specter is within his right to demand further inquiry into the Spygate allegations and the investigation. And that opinion will be upheld on this board.

Theoretically, I guess (don't really know) he has the right to demand inquiry into anything he wants as long as enough of his cohorts agree with him. I mean if he needed a law to be broken, he couldn't demand jack squat in this case, so I guess since he is blabbering about it anyway, he doesn't. That would mean he could demand to investigate whether I cheated during my Monopoly game last night too, but that doesn't make it worthwhile use of Congress's time (just for the record, I only taped THREE of my opponent's previous games, and I didn't use those tapes during my game last night).I'm not sure that last sentence means. If you are trying to say most people here agree with you, I'm not sure about that either way, but I don't really care that much.I guess there is no chance you are going to answer my question, is there? What do you think the results of the investigation will be and what do you think will be done about it? It really shouldn't be that hard a question to answer for a person who thinks the way you do.

 

[North]

I have no problem with it. He obviously knows more behind the scene details than you or I.

I think someone should investigate his primary contributer (comcast) and see if there is a link between his witch hunt on the NFL and NFL's lawsuit against comcast.I just wish this guy would go away already. Can't he focus on the oil crisis or something important rather than using all of his time and resources on the NFL?

 

[ichris]

I have no problem with what Senator Arlen Specter is suggesting. Outside investigators should have stepped in the moment it became known that Roger Goodell destroyed the incriminating evidence. Roger Goodell is very much caught in a conflict of interest and only a truly impartial outside investigation will get to the bottom of this. I applaud Senator Specter for his tenacity and refusal to accept what Roger Goodell says at face value. If the NFL wants anti-trust law exemption they'll happily abide with Congress. If not, then I'll look forward to the USFL starting up again soon.

What is it that you want to see happen as a result of this "investigation" at my expense? How is it going to make my life or the lives of my fellow Americans better?

And as a follow-up, please cite the constitutionality of such an congressional involvement.

Commerce clause

 

[phthalatemagic]

 

[GregR_2]

IMO, it's the league's job to run the NFL and it's Congress' job to run the country. The league has policed itself on this matter. There are 32 teams that have admitted to being ok with the outcome. The commish is fine with the outcome. When did it become Congress' job to police eneryone?

As soon as Congress ends the NFL's antitrust exemption I'm right with you. "Basically, the anti-trust exemtion just allows the NFL to exist. It does not prevent competition or give the NFL exclusive rights to anything. Without the exemtion, the NFL would have to either assist with creating a league that is a direct competitor to the NFL, or would have to split itself into two or more independent organizations."

Where are you quoting that from? That doesn't seem to mesh well with my understanding of the NFL's anti-trust. From what I've read their anti-trust status (which is the same for all sports but MLB baseball) is only in regards to letting them act as a single entity in selling broadcast rights. Without this, we wouldn't have all AFC and NFC games on CBS and FOX, we wouldn't have MNF or SNF on ESPN or NBC, Thursday nights on NFLN, and we wouldn't have NFL Sunday Ticket.

If my understanding is correct, the only thing from that quote that is close to on the mark is the "splitting itself into two or more independent organizations", but that is a misleading way of putting it. The league wouldn't split into multiple entities. The already separate entities of the teams themselves would have to do their negotiating individually rather than collectively as the anti-trust exemption allows them to do.

 

[phthalatemagic]

When did it become Congress' job to police eneryone?

I think roughly since the 1780s

 

[switz]

When did it become Congress' job to police eneryone?

I think roughly since the 1780s

Here's a complete copy of his statement - he makes a number of good points.

 

[pats3in4]

Specter met with former Patriots video assistant Matt Walsh for three hours yesterday in his Hart Senate Office Building office. He said that Walsh told him that a former offensive player for the Patriots told Walsh a few days before a Sept. 11, 2000 game against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers that the offensive player was called into a meeting with head coach Bill Belichick, then offensive coordinator Charlie Weis and Belichick confidant Ernie Adams. During the meeting it was explained to the player how the signal tapes would be used.

According to Specter's recount of what Walsh detailed to him, the offensive player, who was on the sidelines for the game, would memorize the signals then watch for the Tampa Bay defensive calls during the game. He would then pass the call along to Weis, who would give instructions to the quarterback on the field.

Specter's statement said that the offensive player told Walsh that it helped the Patriots anticipate 75 percent of the defensive plays being called.

http://www.boston.com/sports/football/patr...er_calls_f.html

I remember this game. Bledsoe spent the entire game running for his life. Warren Sapp absolutely destroyed the interior OL. I find it very hard to believe the Pats anticipated 75% of the defensive plays being called. Me thinks Walsh overstates things a bit.Still, this story is consistent with what BB said about using tapes for future games. The offensive player was prepped before the game using the tapes, so obviously the tapes were created in advance. My guess is that the tapes were created during game 3 of that preseason, a game that both the Bucs and Pats played very vanilla in anticipation of their season opener. I'm surprised they even bothered with the tapes after seeing how few wrinkles were used in that preseason hookup.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I'm surprised they even bothered with the tapes

You are surprised the Pats used tapes. Ok then.

 

[ScottyFargo]

Steroids are an illegal substance (with exceptions), so Congress investigating has at least some basis in law. Taping signals isn't illegal in either the NFL or the USA. Taping signals from the sideline is illegal in the NFL, but not the USA. I guess I just really don't get it.

Clearly Bush would not have a problem with it...It's called "The Patriot Act" for a reason!

 

[nerangers]

As an anology, let's say you keep your grass a certain length. And your neighbors are fine with it. And the town and state are fine with it. But here comes the federal government wanting to launch a formal investigation that would result in telling you what length to keep your grass and how often you should be forced to cut it.

It's a really bad analogy because you're not running a monopoly that brings in billions of dollars a year.I don't have any real comment either way on what Specter wants to do, or whether Spygate should continue or end; but I don't think Patriots fans have any legs to stand on when they ask "can we please stop talking about spygate". Other teams' fans? Sure. But not Patriots' fans. You can't commit a crime and then complain about how long people are going to talk about it, especially when the crime is potentially an incredibly serious one w/r/t the integrity of the NFL.

I don't have an issue with an independent investigation, as long as it is an investigation on the NFL and not just the Patriots. I don't think everyone does what the Patriots were doing, but I don't think all of the 31 other teams are totally innocent either.

On if Walsh said anything to him that would possibly implicate other teams:

“He said that once when he was filming a game, the Jets game, the guy next to him seemed to be doing the same thing he was doing. But he didn’t get too high and mighty about it, since he was doing the same thing. He said aside from that he knows of no other, nothing else.”

If some of the Jet coaches are from the Patriots who are found to be guilty of illegal video practices, do you think they might not try some of the same things? I am just raising the question here.

 

[Holy Schneikes]

When did it become Congress' job to police eneryone?

I think roughly since the 1780s

Here's a complete copy of his statement - he makes a number of good points.

I've read it. My summary of these points (really trying to be honest and fair here):1)Not only did the Pats cheat, they cheated more often and for a longer period of time than the NFL wants to show.

2)The cheating had a significant impact on games.

3)Goodel didn't really care what was on the tapes, he just wanted to bury it and move on. He has been less than forthcoming with me.

4)The NFL has a vested interest in people thinking the games are fair, even if they are not. People love football.

5)Since we granted the NFL the anti-trust exemption (a serious business "advantage") we need to hold them to a high standard.

6)If they don't come clean, we should do the baseball thing to them.

OK. Now to the points.

1) Yep on all counts. But what he doesn't mention is the extreme likelihood that other teams were doing similar things during the same period.

2) Possible, but very debatable. Not taping in 07 didn't hurt them much did it? In some of those early years, the team wasn't even very good.

3) No duh, no duh and who cares.

4) Again, no duh.

5) So because they have the exemption we get to play in how they run their business, even if the exemption is really to the good of all parties involved (league, players, public). Silly.

6) As I mentioned before, the baseball thing was a complete and utter waste too.

NO WHERE in his statement does he discuss why it makes any sense at all for law-makers of the United States need to meddling in the management of a private enterprise. He does not state what he wants to know or how it would actually benefit the public. He mentions kids looking up to the NFL and how cheating should not be encouraged. This makes ZERO sense. Guess what, the Pats cheated, they got caught, and were punished (fairly severely depending on how you value 1st round draft picks). LOOK KIDS, DON'T CHEAT. We can have 47 league-wide DUIs/week by the players (who the kids REALLY look up to), but we can't have a coach and team cheat, get caught and get punished?

The bottom line is YES YES YES, the NFL has tried and is trying to make this go away as quickly as possible. They swept it under the rug as best they could. So WHAT? That's what businesses do with bad press. Should he take the tapes and put them on you-tube? Did the NFL investigate all possible angles of this case? OF COURSE NOT. I'm not sure they or anyone else (except cranky old men with axes to grind) wants all of the dirty little secrets out in the open. These aren't public servants, they are entertainers.

 

[twitch]

Spygate and Spygate II have basically been the NFL vs. the New England Patriots. Spygate III would be the NFL and the Patriots vs. Arlen Specter and co. And I say bring it on! I'll put my money on the league and its best team....and more than likely, if it actually reaches that point, the other 31 teams as well. No way are Jerry Jones, Dan Rooney and the rest of those NFL power brokers gonna stand around and watch their brethren get bullied. They may all be competitors, but when it gets down to the nitty gritty, they're each gonna look out for their own. Its likely going to happen on some level. And if it does, it would be a beautiful thing. Its about time NE got help from some of its allies.

 

[switz]

On if Walsh said anything to him that would possibly implicate other teams:

“He said that once when he was filming a game, the Jets game, the guy next to him seemed to be doing the same thing he was doing. But he didn’t get too high and mighty about it, since he was doing the same thing. He said aside from that he knows of no other, nothing else.”

Maybe I;m missing something, but based on position, I doubt this guy was working for the Jets..

 

[switz]

Spygate and Spygate II have basically been the NFL vs. the New England Patriots. Spygate III would be the NFL and the Patriots vs. Arlen Specter and co. And I say bring it on! I'll put my money on the league and its best team....and more than likely, if it actually reaches that point, the other 31 teams as well. No way are Jerry Jones, Dan Rooney and the rest of those NFL power brokers gonna stand around and watch their brethren get bullied. They may all be competitors, but when it gets down to the nitty gritty, they're each gonna look out for their own. Its likely going to happen on some level. And if it does, it would be a beautiful thing. Its about time NE got help from some of its allies.

Um... not a NYG fan, but until NE takes the title away, there's no claim to being the best team.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

its best team....

>>>>> <<<<<And you know it.

*No disrespect intended to the current champion, Giants.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Spygate and Spygate II have basically been the NFL vs. the New England Patriots. Spygate III would be the NFL and the Patriots vs. Arlen Specter and co. And I say bring it on! I'll put my money on the league and its best team....and more than likely, if it actually reaches that point, the other 31 teams as well. No way are Jerry Jones, Dan Rooney and the rest of those NFL power brokers gonna stand around and watch their brethren get bullied. They may all be competitors, but when it gets down to the nitty gritty, they're each gonna look out for their own. Its likely going to happen on some level. And if it does, it would be a beautiful thing. Its about time NE got help from some of its allies.

Um... not a NYG fan, but until NE takes the title away, there's no claim to being the best team.

Currently - its the Giants with zero debate possible.

 

[Road Warriors]

Spygate and Spygate II have basically been the NFL vs. the New England Patriots. Spygate III would be the NFL and the Patriots vs. Arlen Specter and co. And I say bring it on! I'll put my money on the league and its best team....and more than likely, if it actually reaches that point, the other 31 teams as well. No way are Jerry Jones, Dan Rooney and the rest of those NFL power brokers gonna stand around and watch their brethren get bullied. They may all be competitors, but when it gets down to the nitty gritty, they're each gonna look out for their own. Its likely going to happen on some level. And if it does, it would be a beautiful thing. Its about time NE got help from some of its allies.

Um... not a NYG fan, but until NE takes the title away, there's no claim to being the best team.

Currently - its the Giants with zero debate possible.

Agree to stipulate.Still doesn't mean that Specter's witchhunt is a good idea for anyone.

 

[twitch]

Spygate and Spygate II have basically been the NFL vs. the New England Patriots. Spygate III would be the NFL and the Patriots vs. Arlen Specter and co. And I say bring it on! I'll put my money on the league and its best team....and more than likely, if it actually reaches that point, the other 31 teams as well. No way are Jerry Jones, Dan Rooney and the rest of those NFL power brokers gonna stand around and watch their brethren get bullied. They may all be competitors, but when it gets down to the nitty gritty, they're each gonna look out for their own. Its likely going to happen on some level. And if it does, it would be a beautiful thing. Its about time NE got help from some of its allies.

Um... not a NYG fan, but until NE takes the title away, there's no claim to being the best team.

Can you NEVER comment on anything but the one slightest negative aspect of a statement for once in your miserable life?? Seriously, man? Can you EVER look at something as anything but a negative? Did I just hammer the Colts in some way? Let me just retract that one minor remark, thought Im absolutely sure you understood my sentiment. But I respect your point. So, I wont dwell on that. But seriously man, step down off your high horse once in a while and be a human being toward another human being despite the fact that we obviously pull for rival teams. Save all other cynicism. I really dont have time for it.

 

[Wadsworth]

When did it become Congress' job to police eneryone?

I think roughly since the 1780s

Here's a complete copy of his statement - he makes a number of good points.

There is an unmistakable atmosphere of conflict of interest or potential conflict of interest between what is in the public's interest and what is in the NFL's interest. The NFL has good reason to disclose as little as possible in its effort to convince the public that what was done wasn't so bad, had no significant effect on the games and, in any event, has all been cleaned up. Enormous financial interests are involved and the owners have a mutual self-interest in sticking together. Evidence of winning by cheating would have the inevitable effect of undercutting public confidence in the game and reducing, perhaps drastically, attendance and TV revenues.

The public interest is enormous. Sports personalities are role models for all of us, especially youngsters. If the Patriots can cheat, so can the college teams, so can the high school teams, so can the 6th grader taking a math examination. The Congress has granted the NFL a most significant business advantage, an antitrust exemption, highly unusual in the commercial world. That largesse can continue only if the NFL can prove itself worthy. Beyond the issues of role models and antitrust, America has a love affair with sports. Professional football has topped all other sporting events in fan interest. Americans have a right to be guaranteed that their favorite sport is honestly competitive.

This is a pretty strong argument.

 

[Scott Bryant]

Can you NEVER comment on anything but the one slightest negative aspect of a statement for once in your miserable life?? Seriously, man? Can you EVER look at something as anything but a negative? Did I just hammer the Colts in some way? Let me just retract that one minor remark, thought Im absolutely sure you understood my sentiment. But I respect your point. So, I wont dwell on that. But seriously man, step down off your high horse once in a while and be a human being toward another human being despite the fact that we obviously pull for rival teams. Save all other cynicism. I really dont have time for it.

Tone it down...way down.

 

[nerangers]

On if Walsh said anything to him that would possibly implicate other teams:

“He said that once when he was filming a game, the Jets game, the guy next to him seemed to be doing the same thing he was doing. But he didn’t get too high and mighty about it, since he was doing the same thing. He said aside from that he knows of no other, nothing else.”

Maybe I;m missing something, but based on position, I doubt this guy was working for the Jets..

maybe I heard what I wanted to hear! lol

 

[twitch]

Can you NEVER comment on anything but the one slightest negative aspect of a statement for once in your miserable life?? Seriously, man? Can you EVER look at something as anything but a negative? Did I just hammer the Colts in some way? Let me just retract that one minor remark, thought Im absolutely sure you understood my sentiment. But I respect your point. So, I wont dwell on that. But seriously man, step down off your high horse once in a while and be a human being toward another human being despite the fact that we obviously pull for rival teams. Save all other cynicism. I really dont have time for it.

Tone it down...way down.

right.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

IMO, it's the league's job to run the NFL and it's Congress' job to run the country. The league has policed itself on this matter. There are 32 teams that have admitted to being ok with the outcome. The commish is fine with the outcome. When did it become Congress' job to police eneryone?

As soon as Congress ends the NFL's antitrust exemption I'm right with you. "Basically, the anti-trust exemtion just allows the NFL to exist. It does not prevent competition or give the NFL exclusive rights to anything. Without the exemtion, the NFL would have to either assist with creating a league that is a direct competitor to the NFL, or would have to split itself into two or more independent organizations."

Where are you quoting that from? That doesn't seem to mesh well with my understanding of the NFL's anti-trust. From what I've read their anti-trust status (which is the same for all sports but MLB baseball) is only in regards to letting them act as a single entity in selling broadcast rights. Without this, we wouldn't have all AFC and NFC games on CBS and FOX, we wouldn't have MNF or SNF on ESPN or NBC, Thursday nights on NFLN, and we wouldn't have NFL Sunday Ticket.

If my understanding is correct, the only thing from that quote that is close to on the mark is the "splitting itself into two or more independent organizations", but that is a misleading way of putting it. The league wouldn't split into multiple entities. The already separate entities of the teams themselves would have to do their negotiating individually rather than collectively as the anti-trust exemption allows them to do.

I don't fully understand the concept of the NFL's anti-trust exemption, but would say the entire NFL draft process would normally be considered anti-competitive and illegal under US anti trust laws. I think at least one aspect of this was demonstrated a few years ago in the Maurice Clarett / Mike Williams draft controversy.

 

[Pat Patriot]

As an anology, let's say you keep your grass a certain length. And your neighbors are fine with it. And the town and state are fine with it. But here comes the federal government wanting to launch a formal investigation that would result in telling you what length to keep your grass and how often you should be forced to cut it.

It's a really bad analogy because you're not running a monopoly that brings in billions of dollars a year.I don't have any real comment either way on what Specter wants to do, or whether Spygate should continue or end; but I don't think Patriots fans have any legs to stand on when they ask "can we please stop talking about spygate". Other teams' fans? Sure. But not Patriots' fans. You can't commit a crime and then complain about how long people are going to talk about it, especially when the crime is potentially an incredibly serious one w/r/t the integrity of the NFL.

What crime have Patriots fans committed?

 

[GregR_2]

IMO, it's the league's job to run the NFL and it's Congress' job to run the country. The league has policed itself on this matter. There are 32 teams that have admitted to being ok with the outcome. The commish is fine with the outcome. When did it become Congress' job to police eneryone?

As soon as Congress ends the NFL's antitrust exemption I'm right with you. "Basically, the anti-trust exemtion just allows the NFL to exist. It does not prevent competition or give the NFL exclusive rights to anything. Without the exemtion, the NFL would have to either assist with creating a league that is a direct competitor to the NFL, or would have to split itself into two or more independent organizations."

Where are you quoting that from? That doesn't seem to mesh well with my understanding of the NFL's anti-trust. From what I've read their anti-trust status (which is the same for all sports but MLB baseball) is only in regards to letting them act as a single entity in selling broadcast rights. Without this, we wouldn't have all AFC and NFC games on CBS and FOX, we wouldn't have MNF or SNF on ESPN or NBC, Thursday nights on NFLN, and we wouldn't have NFL Sunday Ticket.

If my understanding is correct, the only thing from that quote that is close to on the mark is the "splitting itself into two or more independent organizations", but that is a misleading way of putting it. The league wouldn't split into multiple entities. The already separate entities of the teams themselves would have to do their negotiating individually rather than collectively as the anti-trust exemption allows them to do.

I don't fully understand the concept of the NFL's anti-trust exemption, but would say the entire NFL draft process would normally be considered anti-competitive and illegal under US anti trust laws. I think at least one aspect of this was demonstrated a few years ago in the Maurice Clarett / Mike Williams draft controversy.

The NFL's antitrust exemption exists because of the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961. It only gives antitrust exemption when negotiating broadcast rights or when two or more leagues combine into a single league. The Clarett suit was based on an antitrust argument. But the NFL won the suit not because they are exempted from antitrust in the matter, but because the courts held that since the NFL's policy was established by collective bargaining with the NFL Players Association, that it didn't violate antitrust law.

On a side note, the Sports Broadcasting Act of 1961 is the law that allows the leagues to have games blacked out.

 

[footloose]

The day that I gave Evil Grin his member number of 865 I sent Bryant an email stating that having staff members rip on teams that got bounced from the playoffs by the Patriots were a disgrace to this site. That day I put Yudkin on ignore. Karma is a #####. How's it working out for you and your team Yudkin? Have you won any leaugues that counted for anything since that day? Live with it, you and the Patriots made your own bed. The cheating Patriots are a disgrace to the nfl. Can you really argue against that?

 

[mdog1967]

I have no problem with it. He obviously knows more behind the scene details than you or I.

Your smoking something, Spector has lobbyist that are trying to broker a deal for the NFL Network. Its always about the money, repeat its always about the money. Where did you get so naive to state "He obviously knows more behind the scene details than you or I". He's on a fishing expedition to put pressure on the NFL to sweeting the lobbyist bank accounts that donate millions to his campaign. He knows squat. Go get an education in civics and government and quit making asinine statements.

 

[mdog1967]

The day that I gave Evil Grin his member number of 865 I sent Bryant an email stating that having staff members rip on teams that got bounced from the playoffs by the Patriots were a disgrace to this site. That day I put Yudkin on ignore. Karma is a #####. How's it working out for you and your team Yudkin? Have you won any leaugues that counted for anything since that day? Live with it, you and the Patriots made your own bed. The cheating Patriots are a disgrace to the nfl. Can you really argue against that?

Once again footloose has proven to be a cancer to the forum. I thought Joe was going to stop this non-sense. What a crock of crap.

 

[pizzatyme]

How is it a staff member, who is a fan of a team in a controversial situation, be allowed to start a thread and tell people to leave the hate at the door?

If you want the board to remain civil, why start a thread that is sure to spark fireworks? Especially when the OP clearly has a bias.

To the issue at hand, it seems to me that the integrity of the league is at stake here. For the Commissioner to destroy evidence is enough for me to be concerned.

Since sports gambling is legal in the United States, it seems to me that if cheating is swept under the rug here and full disclosure isn't forthcoming from the Commissioner, there is a huge potential concern that Congress should address. What else is swept under the rug that might affect point spreads and totals?

I want this story to go away. I am a Colts fan.

 

[footloose]

mdog how many times did New England cover the spread once New York ratted them out for cheating? They were 10-6 on the season against the spread, once they couldn't tape anymore signals how many times did they cover the spread? I'm saying it right now. They'll be highly over rated next season. How many points did Moss score during the playoffs? Did they have a running game? Welker could possibly be their best fantasy value. Brady won't have near the opportunities to score at will if they don't have the ball nearly as often. I'm not kidding around here. Yudkins now begging for spygate to stop. I'm just giving you guys a heads up. Nothing more nothing less. Brady and Moss won't replicate their numbers. Argue it all you want. The proof will be in next years numbers. Go ahead, make the mods delete my post but you'll know it to be true looking at the seasons totals next year

 

[mdog1967]

mdog how many times did New England cover the spread once New York ratted them out for cheating? They were 10-6 on the season against the spread, once they couldn't tape anymore signals how many times did they cover the spread? I'm saying it right now. They'll be highly over rated next season. How many points did Moss score during the playoffs? Did they have a running game? Welker could possibly be their best fantasy value. Brady won't have near the opportunities to score at will if they don't have the ball nearly as often. I'm not kidding around here. Yudkins now begging for spygate to stop. I'm just giving you guys a heads up. Nothing more nothing less. Brady and Moss won't replicate their numbers. Argue it all you want. The proof will be in next years numbers. Go ahead, make the mods delete my post but you'll know it to be true looking at the seasons totals next year

I don't want the Mods to delete yours, mine or any other post on here that doesn't contain blatant vulgarity. Its the absolute smugness and joy that you and some others exhibit in all of this that baffles me. I am a Die Hard 49er fan living in South Texas. I Choose to also root for Houston and Dallas. As a 49er fan you would expect that I would have trouble rooting for an NFC rival. Its not a problem for me the Cowboys are an historic franchise and part of the Fabric of the NFL. The Pats finished the regular season undefeated. Thats the only stat from last year that is relevant. Spreads come from Sports writers and Vegas odds makers and have nothing to do with the Pats themselves. I don't care for Bill or the Pats as a whole, but the pile on by a couple of culprits bringing the Garbage here to the Shark Pool were it clearly has no relevance on Fantasy Football is stupid and soap box banter. I have grown to despise San Diego, Pittsburgh and Colts fans. They have manifested themselves on this forum to be classless and without any common sense as a whole. There are a few individuals that are not part of that, but overall the rank and file here have proven that they are without merit of the attention they seek. I now root against one of the greatest franchises in NFL history, the Steelers simply because the Fans here are unworthy of rooting for such a great team. Your what you are, a bitter and frustrated keyboard jockey without a lick of common sense.

 

[pizzatyme]

mdog how many times did New England cover the spread once New York ratted them out for cheating? They were 10-6 on the season against the spread, once they couldn't tape anymore signals how many times did they cover the spread? I'm saying it right now. They'll be highly over rated next season. How many points did Moss score during the playoffs? Did they have a running game? Welker could possibly be their best fantasy value. Brady won't have near the opportunities to score at will if they don't have the ball nearly as often. I'm not kidding around here. Yudkins now begging for spygate to stop. I'm just giving you guys a heads up. Nothing more nothing less. Brady and Moss won't replicate their numbers. Argue it all you want. The proof will be in next years numbers. Go ahead, make the mods delete my post but you'll know it to be true looking at the seasons totals next year

I don't want the Mods to delete yours, mine or any other post on here that doesn't contain blatant vulgarity. Its the absolute smugness and joy that you and some others exhibit in all of this that baffles me. I am a Die Hard 49er fan living in South Texas. I Choose to also root for Houston and Dallas. As a 49er fan you would expect that I would have trouble rooting for an NFC rival. Its not a problem for me the Cowboys are an historic franchise and part of the Fabric of the NFL. The Pats finished the regular season undefeated. Thats the only stat from last year that is relevant. Spreads come from Sports writers and Vegas odds makers and have nothing to do with the Pats themselves. I don't care for Bill or the Pats as a whole, but the pile on by a couple of culprits bringing the Garbage here to the Shark Pool were it clearly has no relevance on Fantasy Football is stupid and soap box banter. I have grown to despise San Diego, Pittsburgh and Colts fans. They have manifested themselves on this forum to be classless and without any common sense as a whole. There are a few individuals that are not part of that, but overall the rank and file here have proven that they are without merit of the attention they seek. I now root against one of the greatest franchises in NFL history, the Steelers simply because the Fans here are unworthy of rooting for such a great team. Your what you are, a bitter and frustrated keyboard jockey without a lick of common sense.

Who are these Colts fan you speak of?

 

[NE_REVIVAL]

mdog how many times did New England cover the spread once New York ratted them out for cheating? They were 10-6 on the season against the spread, once they couldn't tape anymore signals how many times did they cover the spread? I'm saying it right now. They'll be highly over rated next season. How many points did Moss score during the playoffs? Did they have a running game? Welker could possibly be their best fantasy value. Brady won't have near the opportunities to score at will if they don't have the ball nearly as often. I'm not kidding around here. Yudkins now begging for spygate to stop. I'm just giving you guys a heads up. Nothing more nothing less. Brady and Moss won't replicate their numbers. Argue it all you want. The proof will be in next years numbers. Go ahead, make the mods delete my post but you'll know it to be true looking at the seasons totals next year

I don't want the Mods to delete yours, mine or any other post on here that doesn't contain blatant vulgarity. Its the absolute smugness and joy that you and some others exhibit in all of this that baffles me. I am a Die Hard 49er fan living in South Texas. I Choose to also root for Houston and Dallas. As a 49er fan you would expect that I would have trouble rooting for an NFC rival. Its not a problem for me the Cowboys are an historic franchise and part of the Fabric of the NFL. The Pats finished the regular season undefeated. Thats the only stat from last year that is relevant. Spreads come from Sports writers and Vegas odds makers and have nothing to do with the Pats themselves. I don't care for Bill or the Pats as a whole, but the pile on by a couple of culprits bringing the Garbage here to the Shark Pool were it clearly has no relevance on Fantasy Football is stupid and soap box banter. I have grown to despise San Diego, Pittsburgh and Colts fans. They have manifested themselves on this forum to be classless and without any common sense as a whole. There are a few individuals that are not part of that, but overall the rank and file here have proven that they are without merit of the attention they seek. I now root against one of the greatest franchises in NFL history, the Steelers simply because the Fans here are unworthy of rooting for such a great team. Your what you are, a bitter and frustrated keyboard jockey without a lick of common sense.

 

[Class Dismissed]

Is this guy ever going to give up? Whether you believe the penalties were just or unjust (or not enough), the league has moved on, the other teams have moved on, and the NFL is moving forward.

What does Specter hope to accomplish at this point?

And PLEASE let's not rehash the battle lines that have been drawn over the past 9 months and let's just stick to this potential investigation. We already know that some folks love the Pats no matter what and other folks think that NE is a bunch of cheaters and they should be kicked out the the NFL and into the CFL. So don't go there because no one really cares about venom being spewed in either direction and stay away from the insults and name calling. Stick to the news item not the stuff that we've covered in countless other threads.

We don't THINK they are a bunch of cheaters, we KNOW they are cheaters. This is a proven fact.What we learned Tuesday is the depth of their cheating, which was a systematic operation.

We know now The high value of the operation, that the tapes went directly to BB's right hand man, Director of Football Research, Ernie Adams.

We know now that the excuse given by Bellichik that he misinterpreted the rule was BS, because the Pats told Matt Walsh not to get caught and in the AFC Championship Game he was told not to wear PAT gear, that the camera red recording light was circumvented, and that he was given a list of excuses to give anyone who asked him what he was doing.

We know that this cheating practice was not widespread, in fact Goodell said, maybe, one other team was doing it, but they looked into it and found nothing, there is no evidence, just a suspicion.

So pretty much every excuse bantered about by the

Spoiler

OJ is innocent mob

, Pats Fans, was thoroughly & completely repudiated.

The Pats Cheated. Period.

Oh, Matt Walsh didn't "Film" the Rams Super Bowl Practice, but he, and others from the Patriot organization were there, and they took notes, which were then passed on to the coaching staff.

That's outrageous in itself, and if it were not for the fact that the Herald got the story wrong, we would be talking about how the Patriots watched the entire Rams Super Bowl walk through Practice as another example of the depth of Patriot Cheating. We would get to hear Goodell explain to us how that it is NOT cheating and that having members of the other teams scouting department on the field to observe their opponents Super Bowl Walk through is an accepted practice at the Super Bowl, of all places, the leagues showcase game.

But instead, because there wasn't an actual tape, it never happened. And the lack of the of the Super Bowl walk though tape is being used as a Red Herring to bury the whole Spy Gate saga.

You all should be kissing John Thomase's fat ###.

As a consumer of the NFL, buying it's tickets, buying it's jerseys, buying the NFL Sunday Ticket, I have a right to know that the games are legit, that I am not being defrauded, and that the League is doing all it can to protect the integrity of the game. The way the league handled/bungled this investigation, the way they have circled the wagons, leaves a lot of doubt in my mind.

I want an Independent Inquiry

 

[Workhorse]

Something that struck me as odd about Walsh's recent statement to HBO:

This quote:

"The line of reasoning that we would give to other teams for why we need a third camera setup was, 'Well, our coaches want to have a tight shot of the kicker and the holder ... exchange just to go over with the guys in meetings. You know, they want a tight shot, you know, of the quarterback, you know, just to go over the quarterback's footwork and mechanics in meetings,'" said Walsh, who mentioned Patriots video coordinator Jimmy Dee as one of the superiors who coached him.

It sure seems clear that videotaping the game from multiple angles was allowed and common practice in the NFL, if it was that easy to obtain at least two cameras, getting the THIRD one took a bit more work. Was videotaping opposing coaching signals simply an "unwritten code" among NFL coaches? It sure doesn't seem like having a pretty elaborate video setup was strictly prohibited if, according to Walsh's quote, TWO CAMERAS were accepted as a matter of course....AND, all it took was a simple explanation to get a third camera in there too. Plus, when you look at those videotapes, many of the coaching signals were from the high angle end zone cameras that the Jets admitted that most teams are legally allowed to utilize if they are granted permission by the opposing team in their stadium.

 

[PatsFanCT]

Is this guy ever going to give up? Whether you believe the penalties were just or unjust (or not enough), the league has moved on, the other teams have moved on, and the NFL is moving forward.

What does Specter hope to accomplish at this point?

And PLEASE let's not rehash the battle lines that have been drawn over the past 9 months and let's just stick to this potential investigation. We already know that some folks love the Pats no matter what and other folks think that NE is a bunch of cheaters and they should be kicked out the the NFL and into the CFL. So don't go there because no one really cares about venom being spewed in either direction and stay away from the insults and name calling. Stick to the news item not the stuff that we've covered in countless other threads.

We don't THINK they are a bunch of cheaters, we KNOW they are cheaters. This is a proven fact.What we learned Tuesday is the depth of their cheating, which was a systematic operation.

We know now The high value of the operation, that the tapes went directly to BB's right hand man, Director of Football Research, Ernie Adams.

We know now that the excuse given by Bellichik that he misinterpreted the rule was BS, because the Pats told Matt Walsh not to get caught and in the AFC Championship Game he was told not to wear PAT gear, that the camera red recording light was circumvented, and that he was given a list of excuses to give anyone who asked him what he was doing.

We know that this cheating practice was not widespread, in fact Goodell said, maybe, one other team was doing it, but they looked into it and found nothing, there is no evidence, just a suspicion.

So pretty much every excuse bantered about by the

Spoiler

OJ is innocent mob

, Pats Fans, was thoroughly & completely repudiated.

The Pats Cheated. Period.

Oh, Matt Walsh didn't "Film" the Rams Super Bowl Practice, but he, and others from the Patriot organization were there, and they took notes, which were then passed on to the coaching staff.

That's outrageous in itself, and if it were not for the fact that the Herald got the story wrong, we would be talking about how the Patriots watched the entire Rams Super Bowl walk through Practice as another example of the depth of Patriot Cheating. We would get to hear Goodell explain to us how that it is NOT cheating and that having members of the other teams scouting department on the field to observe their opponents Super Bowl Walk through is an accepted practice at the Super Bowl, of all places, the leagues showcase game.

But instead, because there wasn't an actual tape, it never happened. And the lack of the of the Super Bowl walk though tape is being used as a Red Herring to bury the whole Spy Gate saga.

You all should be kissing John Thomase's fat ###.

As a consumer of the NFL, buying it's tickets, buying it's jerseys, buying the NFL Sunday Ticket, I have a right to know that the games are legit, that I am not being defrauded, and that the League is doing all it can to protect the integrity of the game. The way the league handled/bungled this investigation, the way they have circled the wagons, leaves a lot of doubt in my mind.

I want an Independent Inquiry

Not that I really wanted to reply to all your garbage, but it's people like you who spout crap they know nothing about and probably hear while doing shots at a bar crying with the other "Pats cheated" pity partiers, but here's the facts about the Rams walk through nonsense you and the rest of the uninformed morons the media helped fuel your hatred with.According to Mike Martz, the Rams walkthrough only included their red zone offense. In the Super Bowl, the Rams made it to the Red Zone exactly once... And they scored a touchdown.

As for who was spying on who during their practice before the Super Bowl, it was the Rams doing the spying.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Specter wants Mitchell-like investigation

May 14, 2008

WASHINGTON—Sen. Arlen Specter wants an independent investigation of the Patriots' taping of opposing coaches' signals similar to the Mitchell Report on performance enhancing drugs in baseball.

Specter again criticized the league's handling of the investigation and threatened the possibility of revoking the NFL's antitrust exemption during a news conference Wednesday. The senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee met with former New England video assistant Matt Walsh a day earlier.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell indicated he considered the investigation over after meeting with Walsh on Tuesday.

"Everybody pooh-poohs it," Specter said. "It's ridiculous to make that kind of contention."

Specter, from Pennsylvania, cited the fact a Patriots attorney sat in on Walsh's meeting with Goodell as proof the investigation has not been impartial.

He repeated his disapproval of Goodell's decision to destroy the notes and tapes confiscated during the initial investigation last fall.

"That sequence is incomprehensible," Specter said. "It's an insult to the intelligence of the people who follow it."

If the NFL condones cheating, Specter said, it encourages others to cheat.

"They owe the public a lot more candor and a lot more credibility," he said.

LINKAGEMay have already been posted, but here it is again if so.

Is this guy ever going to give up? Whether you believe the penalties were just or unjust (or not enough), the league has moved on, the other teams have moved on, and the NFL is moving forward.

What does Specter hope to accomplish at this point?

And PLEASE let's not rehash the battle lines that have been drawn over the past 9 months and let's just stick to this potential investigation. We already know that some folks love the Pats no matter what and other folks think that NE is a bunch of cheaters and they should be kicked out the the NFL and into the CFL. So don't go there because no one really cares about venom being spewed in either direction and stay away from the insults and name calling. Stick to the news item not the stuff that we've covered in countless other threads.

Thanks David. Again, please folks try your best to discuss this like grownups.I wrote about this in last night's update. The league totally brought this upon themselves in the way they handled the first tapes. You don't destroy tapes like that. Two reasons.

You know that if you do, there will be a huge outcry of coverup.

So what you're destroying on the tapes has to be worse than the coverup outcry. It's common sense.

I honestly was surprised the league got such a free pass on that for as long as they did.

J

 

[Big Daddy Kane]

Thanks David. Again, please folks try your best to discuss this like grownups.

I wrote about this in last night's update. The league totally brought this upon themselves in the way they handled the first tapes. You don't destroy tapes like that. Two reasons.

You know that if you do, there will be a huge outcry of coverup.

So what you're destroying on the tapes has to be worse than the coverup outcry. It's common sense.

I honestly was surprised the league got such a free pass on that for as long as they did.

J

 

[Liquid Tension]

Specter wants Mitchell-like investigation

May 14, 2008

WASHINGTON—Sen. Arlen Specter wants an independent investigation of the Patriots' taping of opposing coaches' signals similar to the Mitchell Report on performance enhancing drugs in baseball.

Specter again criticized the league's handling of the investigation and threatened the possibility of revoking the NFL's antitrust exemption during a news conference Wednesday. The senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee met with former New England video assistant Matt Walsh a day earlier.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell indicated he considered the investigation over after meeting with Walsh on Tuesday.

"Everybody pooh-poohs it," Specter said. "It's ridiculous to make that kind of contention."

Specter, from Pennsylvania, cited the fact a Patriots attorney sat in on Walsh's meeting with Goodell as proof the investigation has not been impartial.

He repeated his disapproval of Goodell's decision to destroy the notes and tapes confiscated during the initial investigation last fall.

"That sequence is incomprehensible," Specter said. "It's an insult to the intelligence of the people who follow it."

If the NFL condones cheating, Specter said, it encourages others to cheat.

"They owe the public a lot more candor and a lot more credibility," he said.

LINKAGEMay have already been posted, but here it is again if so.

Is this guy ever going to give up? Whether you believe the penalties were just or unjust (or not enough), the league has moved on, the other teams have moved on, and the NFL is moving forward.

What does Specter hope to accomplish at this point?

And PLEASE let's not rehash the battle lines that have been drawn over the past 9 months and let's just stick to this potential investigation. We already know that some folks love the Pats no matter what and other folks think that NE is a bunch of cheaters and they should be kicked out the the NFL and into the CFL. So don't go there because no one really cares about venom being spewed in either direction and stay away from the insults and name calling. Stick to the news item not the stuff that we've covered in countless other threads.

NY Giant and Miami Dolphin fan - Why do our tax dollars have to be wasted on any investigation here? This is just silly. Goodell screwed up by destroying the tapes, but lets move on

 

[Liquid Tension]

Substantial recession.Ongoing war.Climate and pollution issues.Health care concerns.Social Security collapse.Terrorism concerns.Rising unemployment.Incomprehensibly massive national debt (and deficit).Big-time immigration/border control issues.Country-wide health problems with obesity.Deteriorating educational rankings relative to the rest of the developed world.Never-ending ethics issues with what seems like half of Congress.Huge trade deficit.National emergencies.Ridiculous pork-barrel spending.And all this yahoo wants to talk about is spending my tax dollars and Congress' valuable time on investigating an issue for a GAME that's already been acknowledged and addressed by the governing body of that GAME?Why does this guy still have a job? I'm thinking about moving back to PA just to vote against him.

What he said...and then to add, I don't think this is why folks like him were voted into office in the first place...NOW, GO REPRESENT THE PEOPLE!

 

[Road Warriors]

Specter wants Mitchell-like investigation

May 14, 2008

WASHINGTON—Sen. Arlen Specter wants an independent investigation of the Patriots' taping of opposing coaches' signals similar to the Mitchell Report on performance enhancing drugs in baseball.

Specter again criticized the league's handling of the investigation and threatened the possibility of revoking the NFL's antitrust exemption during a news conference Wednesday. The senior Republican on the Senate Judiciary Committee met with former New England video assistant Matt Walsh a day earlier.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell indicated he considered the investigation over after meeting with Walsh on Tuesday.

"Everybody pooh-poohs it," Specter said. "It's ridiculous to make that kind of contention."

Specter, from Pennsylvania, cited the fact a Patriots attorney sat in on Walsh's meeting with Goodell as proof the investigation has not been impartial.

He repeated his disapproval of Goodell's decision to destroy the notes and tapes confiscated during the initial investigation last fall.

"That sequence is incomprehensible," Specter said. "It's an insult to the intelligence of the people who follow it."

If the NFL condones cheating, Specter said, it encourages others to cheat.

"They owe the public a lot more candor and a lot more credibility," he said.

LINKAGEMay have already been posted, but here it is again if so.

Is this guy ever going to give up? Whether you believe the penalties were just or unjust (or not enough), the league has moved on, the other teams have moved on, and the NFL is moving forward.

What does Specter hope to accomplish at this point?

And PLEASE let's not rehash the battle lines that have been drawn over the past 9 months and let's just stick to this potential investigation. We already know that some folks love the Pats no matter what and other folks think that NE is a bunch of cheaters and they should be kicked out the the NFL and into the CFL. So don't go there because no one really cares about venom being spewed in either direction and stay away from the insults and name calling. Stick to the news item not the stuff that we've covered in countless other threads.

Thanks David. Again, please folks try your best to discuss this like grownups.I wrote about this in last night's update. The league totally brought this upon themselves in the way they handled the first tapes. You don't destroy tapes like that. Two reasons.

You know that if you do, there will be a huge outcry of coverup.

So what you're destroying on the tapes has to be worse than the coverup outcry. It's common sense.

I honestly was surprised the league got such a free pass on that for as long as they did.

J

I disagree with this leap. Basically, we've now seen what was on the tapes, from the Matt Walsh entries. Was what was on the tapes worse than the coverup and continuation of Spygate?Certainly, destroning the tapes was a HUGE misstep. However, I think hubris was more to blame with the decision than a fear of what the tapes contained. I think that at the time, Goodell felt he had enough of an image as a hardnosed commish that handing out a stiff penalty and "moving on" would be accepted. He badly misjudged the media backlash.

I've stated before that if the NFL had aired some of the original tapes footage, included a shot of opposing coaches waving to the camera ( as has been reported occurred ), and issued a statement close to the one they just did, this episode would never have had the legs it did. To try to minimize the scope of the taping, they have now appeared to be trying to hide something.

There is very little that I see that indicates there is more to this than the Patriots have been taping opposing coaches whenever they felt it would offer a potential advantage in future games. Going back to your statement above, you seem to be pushing forward the idea there is still more to the story, and calling it common sense. I say its a leap of logic, based on the actual evidence that has been brought to light since the September tape burning party at the Goodell's backyard BBQ.

 

[Liquid Tension]

My opinion of congress getting involved with professional sports is BS altogether.

Same with baseball steroids and even college bowls. ect. They can't get anything done with what they were elected to achieve, yet they have to be sticking there nose in sports business. Time to replace them ALL!

My opinion of the spy scandel is it's lots worst then NFL will ever admitt. Bellicheck got caught lieing and cheating more then once over more then one issues! They got penalized a draft pick so be it. Let it go and keep the CONGRESS nose out of it.

It's far deeper then the NFL will ever let on. If I was the NFL I would sue congress to keep there nose out of there business. Let the supreme court rule with this where it belongs. Congress needs to be spending there time doing what they were elected to do. Like dealing with the rape gas prices and Economy. Dealing with immigrants and the budget.

I own 5 boats and can't even afford to run them this summer! And darn congress is too busy dealing with steroids and spy scandels and things where they have no business sticking there nose into while the econmy continues to slip into a serious problem that effects us all.

WISE UP CONGRESS

This is absurd

 

[Liquid Tension]

Senator Specter is within his right to demand further inquiry into the Spygate allegations and the investigation. And that opinion will be upheld on this board.

This is a weak argument. "within his right?"Yeah, it is within his right to investigate YOU, but that doesn't make it the smart, prudent or the fiscally responsible thing to do.As for the opinion being upheld by this board??? While it doesn't really mean anything what this board thinks, it is clear that more of the board is against Specter's wants.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

Can the Civics experts enlighten me about the Senatorial equivalent of an impeachment?

TIA

 

[Liquid Tension]

When did it become Congress' job to police eneryone?

I think roughly since the 1780s

Here's a complete copy of his statement - he makes a number of good points.

Switz! This is worth a read for everyone. I don't think Specter should be doing anything now, but his points that Goodell knew more than he told us is spot on. OK, so we all agree the Commish has issues, but it is OVER as far as I am concerned

 

[Liquid Tension]

The day that I gave Evil Grin his member number of 865 I sent Bryant an email stating that having staff members rip on teams that got bounced from the playoffs by the Patriots were a disgrace to this site. That day I put Yudkin on ignore. Karma is a #####. How's it working out for you and your team Yudkin? Have you won any leaugues that counted for anything since that day? Live with it, you and the Patriots made your own bed. The cheating Patriots are a disgrace to the nfl. Can you really argue against that?

Once again footloose has proven to be a cancer to the forum. I thought Joe was going to stop this non-sense. What a crock of crap.

Not disagreeing with your take on Footloose here, but you just posted this in response to someone else:

Your smoking something, Spector has lobbyist that are trying to broker a deal for the NFL Network. Its always about the money, repeat its always about the money. Where did you get so naive to state "He obviously knows more behind the scene details than you or I". He's on a fishing expedition to put pressure on the NFL to sweeting the lobbyist bank accounts that donate millions to his campaign. He knows squat. Go get an education in civics and government and quit making asinine statements.

 

[TD Ryan]

I'm all for a Mitchell-like investigation in the NFL.

Just not with taxpayers' dollars.

NE has been in the crosshairs of every investigative reporter for 9+ months now and still nothing new has come to light despite all the conspiracy theories and outlandish claims being made.

I welcome a ransacking of the rest of the NFL. Clean everyone's closets out. I'm sure there would be some surprises at what's found.

 

[Mookie Blaylock]

If it was any other "leader" of any other industry would we be having this discussion? The billions of $s that the NFL is responsible for is pretty important to this country. If the business practices of the NFL are in question, and they are, and the commissioner is doing a piss-poor job of righting the ship, who is going to investigate? The government. Why is that so hard to understand. I'm sick of it too, but I understand it.

 

[BroadwayG]

I couldn't believe this story when I saw it this morning. Can we have a Mitchell Report of the hiring practices of family businesses next?