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Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (3 Viewers)

jurrassic said:
What type of value do you give to West if Charles sits?  I have seen reports Reid has stated he plans for them to split carries
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Well, with the assumption of rational coaching, it should look a lot like it did in pre season = a lot of Ware with a little West sprinkled in. 

Value that as you wish.

 
I have Ware on a few teams and would love to see him blow up.  Some of the talk this summer also points to Ware looking like the primary backup.  However, if you look how they were used last year without Charles I'm not betting on West not being a bit of a party pooper here.  The paste below is a little messy but it shows last season without Charles West got the majority of the carries and more consistent carries. In games they both played they went with more of a fairly even timeshare.


Ware


West


 


9-33, 1-6


2-8,


22-110-1, 2-19


2-12-1,


20-97-1, 4-25


 


 


2-4,


24-69-1, 3-92-1


11-96-2, 1-5


11-16, 2-48


19-114-1, 3-1


 


7-26-1,2-(1)


9-35, 2-9


8-52,


10-54,


 


16-76-1,2-9


5-15,


14-62, 1-(1)


16-76-1


13-34, 1-(2)




 
Warhogs said:
I have Ware on a few teams and would love to see him blow up.  Some of the talk this summer also points to Ware looking like the primary backup.  However, if you look how they were used last year without Charles I'm not betting on West not being a bit of a party pooper here.  The paste below is a little messy but it shows last season without Charles West got the majority of the carries and more consistent carries. In games they both played they went with more of a fairly even timeshare.


Ware


West


 


9-33, 1-6


2-8,


22-110-1, 2-19


2-12-1,


20-97-1, 4-25


 


 


2-4,


24-69-1, 3-92-1


11-96-2, 1-5


11-16, 2-48


19-114-1, 3-1


 


7-26-1,2-(1)


9-35, 2-9


8-52,


10-54,


 


16-76-1,2-9


5-15,


14-62, 1-(1)


16-76-1


13-34, 1-(2)
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The chiefs gave West some money so I imagine he's in their plans but he's not special. When Ware gets banged up he'll play more I imagine.

 
stbugs said:
You do realize they signed the same deals for the same $3.6M over two years?
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yes I was......you do realize who came in the game first this preseason and played all 3 downs "before" West was injuried right? West is replacement level. Ware is special. It's all over the tape and it's obvious by the Chiefs actions this preseason that they recognize it as well.

 
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^^^ Special vs replacement level my ###. When both were healthy it was a full blown rbbc and probably will be again as soon as West or Charles is healthy enough to be the passing down RB. Ware is a good player but West looked just as good last year (and was the first Jamaal Chuck replacement) until getting dinged up after three games of feature usage.

 
Phenomena said:
Let's not forget that Ware is not very innately talented. Ware was a  6th round pick by the SEAHAWKS and was CUT.  Both Ware and West were successful last season. Why? Because the offense was very efficient and the o-line had awesome run-blocking.
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I'll pile on here as well.

KC gave he and West what amounts to a battle field promotion, signing both to matching extensions last year, without a deadline approaching.  They moved to lock him up, this guy is not a stiff.

He averaged more yards after contact than every other back in the league.  Umm, yeah.  

He has clearly outplayed West, and Charles is a smaller back that is 29 years old, and even if he gets healthy, nothing says he won't get hurt again.  

The days of stealing him late are probably gone in serious leagues, but he's going to get a lot of work early in the year, which is incredibly helpful, as people who went 0-RB get to sort out their other RBs for a week or two.

From a keeper/dynasty perspective, Charles will  be 30 years old next year with a 7 mill cap charge (no dead money if cut).  

Hype train might be going to fast, but that doesn't mean I'm hopping off.  

 
LawFitz said:
^^^ Special vs replacement level my ###. When both were healthy it was a full blown rbbc and probably will be again as soon as West or Charles is healthy enough to be the passing down RB. Ware is a good player but West looked just as good last year (and was the first Jamaal Chuck replacement) until getting dinged up after three games of feature usage.
Click to expand...
Theyre both good. Most people tend to agree that ware is a bit better in most aspects of the game, as well as built for 20+ carries. Ware seized the job when west went down. It's still Charles job but if he goes down again, ware will get the majority with west getting his 5-10 touches. 

 
LawFitz said:
^^^ Special vs replacement level my ###. When both were healthy it was a full blown rbbc and probably will be again as soon as West or Charles is healthy enough to be the passing down RB. Ware is a good player but West looked just as good last year (and was the first Jamaal Chuck replacement) until getting dinged up after three games of feature usage.
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Ware thoroughly outplayed West. I'm not sure what you're watching but if you believe that you should target West in your drafts. I believe his ADP has been falling like the dump I just took so he's a huge value for you.

 
thehornet said:
Theyre both good. Most people tend to agree that ware is a bit better in most aspects of the game, as well as built for 20+ carries. Ware seized the job when west went down. It's still Charles job but if he goes down again, ware will get the majority with west getting his 5-10 touches. 
Click to expand...
This is where I am at.  

I don't think either is 'special' (maybe I just don't throw around that word much) or 'replacement level'.  

 
Ware was just dropped in a league where we have short benches (owner has Lacy and dropped him to get Starks). Is he a must add? I'm 6th in the waiver line and would drop to 12th.

 
Milkman said:
Ware thoroughly outplayed West. I'm not sure what you're watching but if you believe that you should target West in your drafts. I believe his ADP has been falling like the dump I just took so he's a huge value for you.
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:sigh:

How did you ever get 300 likes?

Does everything need to be an obnoxious contest?  Try a reasoned, non ####head answer.  It feels good.

 
Ware was number 13 overall in running backs last season according to PFF. He led all RBs in points per opportunity. He averaged 5.34 ypc and scored 7 touchdowns on 88 carries.  He's not Jamal Charles in his prime, but he's much better than West.

 
JuniorNB said:
Ware was number 13 overall in running backs last season according to PFF. He led all RBs in points per opportunity. He averaged 5.34 ypc and scored 7 touchdowns on 88 carries.  He's not Jamal Charles in his prime, but he's much better than West.
Click to expand...
And yet in every game where both had stats last year it was either a full blown RBBC or West got the lion's share by far.

If both Charles and West are limited week 1, I will be starting Ware (grabbed him off waivers last night). But if those guys are ready to play, I expect an RBBC again. The only week out of 16 last year that Ware got feature touches was when both West and Chuck were out.

Not denying that Ware outperformed on a per touch basis, but special versus replacement level differential it was not. West was doing fantastic as the lead dog until getting nicked. And he crimped Ware's production the rest of the season, even after.

 
massraider said:
:sigh:

How did you ever get 300 likes?

Does everything need to be an obnoxious contest?  Try a reasoned, non ####head answer.  It feels good.
Click to expand...
I don't care about likes. I just try to figure out who's undervalued as best as I can. My attitude is a by product of going against the general consensus on players I believe in and being constantly attacked for it. Shrug. 

 
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LawFitz said:
And yet in every game where both had stats last year it was either a full blown RBBC or West got the lion's share by far.

If both Charles and West are limited week 1, I will be starting Ware (grabbed him off waivers last night). But if those guys are ready to play, I expect an RBBC again. The only week out of 16 last year that Ware got feature touches was when both West and Chuck were out.

Not denying that Ware outperformed on a per touch basis, but special versus replacement level differential it was not. West was doing fantastic as the lead dog until getting nicked. And he crimped Ware's production the rest of the season, even after.
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Lol nope but if that's what you believe West should be the player you're targeting. Who owns him in your league? Or is he on the WW?

 
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LawFitz said:
And yet in every game where both had stats last year it was either a full blown RBBC or West got the lion's share by far.

If both Charles and West are limited week 1, I will be starting Ware (grabbed him off waivers last night). But if those guys are ready to play, I expect an RBBC again. The only week out of 16 last year that Ware got feature touches was when both West and Chuck were out.

Not denying that Ware outperformed on a per touch basis, but special versus replacement level differential it was not. West was doing fantastic as the lead dog until getting nicked. And he crimped Ware's production the rest of the season, even after.
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It's been a progression. West succeeded Charles. He was his backup going into last season. As the season progressed and Charles went down and both West and Ware suffered injuries, Ware started playing more and more. We are obviously not privy to OTAs and other practices, but Ware has clearly moved ahead of West on the depth chart. West appears to be an afterthought now.

I agree that West will still get some touches. He's a good receiver out of the backfield. But unless Ware goes down, West is worthless in fantasy.

 
Milkman said:
I don't care about likes. I just try to figure out who's undervalued as best as I can. My attitude is a by product of going against the general consensus on players I believe in and being constantly attacked for it. Shrug. 
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You're behaving like a know it all #######.

Shrug.

 
Milkman,

West is not rostered in either of my two 10-team leagues. I have Ware as my 6th RB on one team, because West has been hobbled and now Charles clearly is too. Any week those two guys are significantly less than healthy, Ware is a nice spot start, especially against friendly matchups, so week 1 against SD has great potential.

But I just don't believe he's that much better than those two when they are all 100% or near it. Right now I have the healthy one. We'll see what happens. I hope you are right, but I'm not as impressed with his tape as you are. He did a lot of PFF metrics damage against mostly soft and/or worn-out D's last year. Let's see how he does against early-season good D's @Hou, NJ, @Pit weeks 2-4 this year.

 
Milkman said:
Lol at going back in the junk pile. Do you even watch the games. Rawls is an UDFA last year. Does he suck too. 
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He's nothing special, either.  Neither is Christine Michael, whom was cut by several teams.  Ben Tate sucked as well, but he looked like an all-pro behind that offensive line when Foster was hurt.  

I think all of you need to remember that all of this talk about Charles is coming from one dude who doesn't even work for the team. We haven't heard anything from the coaches, reporters, or Charles himself that indicates Charles is struggling or won't regain the feature role early in the season.

Ware couldn't even beat Charcandrick West out for the backup role last year. West was looking great until his injury. Ware was the third best RB on the team last year.  I don't get the love.  Unless Charles is so hurt that he never plays a snap, West has zero value.  At worst they will split duties. Talk of taking him in the 6th is ridiculous.

 
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Phenomena said:
He's nothing special, either.  Neither is Christine Michael, whom was cut by several teams.  Ben Tate sucked as well, but he looked like an all-pro behind that offensive line when Foster was hurt.  

I think all of you need to remember that all of this talk about Charles is coming from one dude who doesn't even work for the team. We haven't heard anything from the coaches or the reporters that work for the team that indicates Charles is struggling or won't regain the feature role.

In addition, Ware couldn't even beat Charcandrick West out for the backup role last year. West was looking great until his injury. Ware was the third best RB on the team last year.  I don't get the love.  Unless Charles is so hurt that he never plays a snap, West has zero value.  At worst they will split duties. Talk of taking him in the 6th is ridiculous.
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Well........that's like.....just.......your...........opinion...............man.........

 
Phenomena said:
He's nothing special, either.  Neither is Christine Michael, whom was cut by several teams.  Ben Tate sucked as well, but he looked like an all-pro behind that offensive line when Foster was hurt.  

I think all of you need to remember that all of this talk about Charles is coming from one dude who doesn't even work for the team. We haven't heard anything from the coaches, reporters, or Charles himself that indicates Charles is struggling or won't regain the feature role early in the season.

Ware couldn't even beat Charcandrick West out for the backup role last year. West was looking great until his injury. Ware was the third best RB on the team last year.  I don't get the love.  Unless Charles is so hurt that he never plays a snap, West has zero value.  At worst they will split duties. Talk of taking him in the 6th is ridiculous.
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The events are not disputable. Ware seized the role either late last year or in preseason this year. It doesn't matter if he took it from West outright or if he took it when West got hurt. He wouldn't be the first guy to get the Wally Pipp treatment. Maybe you think West is better but none of the metrics support it. By all accounts, Ware might be the best back on the team right now if Charles really is hurt or washing up. Neither one of these guys can carry Charles jockstrap and I actually enjoy watching Charles run, so I hope he comes back strong and destroys it. 

 
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JuniorNB said:
It's been a progression. West succeeded Charles. He was his backup going into last season. As the season progressed and Charles went down and both West and Ware suffered injuries, Ware started playing more and more. We are obviously not privy to OTAs and other practices, but Ware has clearly moved ahead of West on the depth chart. West appears to be an afterthought now.

I agree that West will still get some touches. He's a good receiver out of the backfield. But unless Ware goes down, West is worthless in fantasy.




 
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i had both Ware and West down the stretch last year. Ware just looked better then and even better now. West may be relevant but it looks like Charles + Ware right now. And, honestly, Reaves looked good in these preseason games too. He's backed up some nice chatter from Reid with production behind Ware. If I was a West owner, I might be as much concerned by Reaves as I am Ware.

#twocents

 
Phenomena said:
I think all of you need to remember that all of this talk about Charles is coming from one dude who doesn't even work for the team. We haven't heard anything from the coaches, reporters, or Charles himself that indicates Charles is struggling or won't regain the feature role early in the season.
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Haven't both Charles and Reid made statements about Charles not being ready for a full load and taking it slow because of his recovery?  Isn't that kind of the same as struggling?

 
I dropped Hogan, last round draft flyer, last night, and picked up Spencer Ware.

Brady spread the ball around way to much last night.

 
drewd_21 said:
Nobody.....just cutting his roster down to 50 
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Lol 50? Wow. That's why dynasty leagues are easy to stay on top of. Owners run their teams into the ground fast dropping players like that. 

 
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What kind of interest do you think Ware could generate in a WR trade?

Thinking about moving him for Funchess. I have a weak WR corps and too much depth at RB. The guy also has Maclin as his WR3 but for the price he paid (54th pick) doubt I could get him. The owner I am contemplating trading with has Charles (19th pick.)

ETA: it's redraft

 
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BobbyLayne said:
What kind of interest do you think Ware could generate in a WR trade?

Thinking about moving him for Funchess. I have a weak WR corps and too much depth at RB. The guy also has Maclin as his WR3 but for the price he paid (54th pick) doubt I could get him. The owner I am contemplating trading with has Charles (19th pick.)

ETA: it's redraft
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I like Funchess, but I'd hold out for a safer WR. Ware looks to be starting at least Week 1 and we'll see where it goes from there.

 
I'm on the fence here on whether to jump on Ware, who is currently on WW.  My concern is I'll be getting a week or two of solid production, and then he'll only serve as a lottery ticket if Charles gets injured.  Here's my team, full PPR:

Jameis Winston
Matt Forte
C.J. Anderson 
Dez Bryant 
DeAndre Hopkins 
Zach Ertz 
Larry Fitzgerald 
Tom Brady 
Justin Forsett 
Duke Johnson 
Theo Riddick 
Josh Gordon 
DeVante Parker
Maybe drop Forsett or Parker?

 
I sold Ware for a 1st and 2nd 2017 picks in Dynasty Rook/Vet Draft.

I have Zeke, Gurley, Ingram and Hyde plus Dalvin Cook hopefully joining the NFL next year. So I'm fairly happy with the trade at this point.

Tex

 
ZooStation said:
I'm on the fence here on whether to jump on Ware, who is currently on WW.  My concern is I'll be getting a week or two of solid production, and then he'll only serve as a lottery ticket if Charles gets injured.  Here's my team, full PPR:

Jameis Winston
Matt Forte
C.J. Anderson 
Dez Bryant 
DeAndre Hopkins 
Zach Ertz 
Larry Fitzgerald 
Tom Brady 
Justin Forsett 
Duke Johnson 
Theo Riddick 
Josh Gordon 
DeVante Parker
Maybe drop Forsett or Parker?
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Welcome to FBG please post your question here:https://forums.footballguys.com/forum/forum/12-the-assistant-coach/

Thanks,

Tex

 
BigTex said:
I sold Ware for a 1st and 2nd 2017 picks in Dynasty Rook/Vet Draft.

I have Zeke, Gurley, Ingram and Hyde plus Dalvin Cook hopefully joining the NFL next year. So I'm fairly happy with the trade at this point.

Tex
Click to expand...


You sold a RB that was a 6th round draft pick and needed two injuries to be relevant for a 1st and 2nd round dynasty rookie pick. Jesus.  I need to get into some of these leagues.

 
Phenomena said:
You sold a RB that was a 6th round draft pick and needed two injuries to be relevant for a 1st and 2nd round dynasty rookie pick. Jesus.  I need to get into some of these leagues.
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It's about hype! The hype level is high. When ANY player hit an unbelievable hype level beyond the current owner's perceived value the  law says sell high!!!! Can't get any higher than now.

He is by far the best player to sell right now and it's not even close!

:hawk:

Tex

 
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