Are you fishing? "JC to be sprinkled in" can't lead you to believe this right?
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Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (1 Viewer)
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jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
As a Ware owner (and an owner who only expected him to be a possible flex play with the return of Charles)--I actually hope that the Chiefs ride Charles like crazy. A slow healing nearly 30 year old RB coming off a 2nd ACL injury getting the majority of the work is the perfect recipe needed for Ware to be one of the biggest difference makers in fantasy as the season progresses. Don't get me wrong--I'm not wishing injury to Charles--I'm just being realistic. I can't imagine a guy like Charles holding up to being tackled 15-20 times per week with no bye week to recover.
This is exactly why Ware is a hold. If they continue to share the work--he remains a flex with some solid upside. If Charles becomes a bell cow--Ware might lose his flex appeal-but instantly becomes one of the best handcuffs in the game.
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Although Jamaal Charles' role should grow coming off the bye, Spencer Ware remains the favorite for lead back duties until further notice. "He'll probably do a little bit more," coach Andy Reid said of Charles this week. "We'll sprinkle him in where we feel he's most effective," OC Brad Childress added Thursday. My guess is we'll see Ware handle most early-down carries and all short-yardage work with Charles mixing in for 15-20 snaps in the old Charcandrick West role. West remains a solid RB2 play. Charles is a shot-in-the-dark flex.
shadyridr
Footballguy
BustedKnuckles
Footballguy
Uhhhh...yes you are wishing injury on Charles dude. Reread your post and tell me how it can be intereted in any other way lol
you state you are a ware owner and you hope that they ride Charles into the ground so that he gets injured again and ware can step back into a prominent role. It's evil but understandable. Own it.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
No offense--but that is one of the most absurd things that I have ever read. It's evil to be realistic in realizing that a running back that gets 20 touches a game is more likely to get injured than one that gets "sprinkled" in for 8 touches? Last I checked football is a contact sport where players getting injured and dinged up is not all that uncommon. If you want to act you like you don't factor in injuries or injury risk while being a fantasy football owner--you are lying to yourself as well as to the forum. According to your logic--every fantasy owner that is rostering a high upside handcuff is "evil". Let me guess--if Leveon Bell were to get injured--and Deangelo was on your waiver wire--you wouldn't go running for him and try to capitalize on Leveon's injury--because that would be evil? C'mon man. It's not evil to think that maybe a 30 year old rb coming off of 2 acl injuries might get injured and act accordingly. However, it is stupid to assume and act like he can't get injured.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
For me, this situation has been pretty clear. They've been babying Charles back, following their plan all along of giving Charles through the bye to rest and get back into game shape. Smart move. I'm starting Charles with confidence and benching Ware in all leagues. I think those who are expecting an unchanged role for Ware are going to be very disappointed. I'm not saying he's not startable - he may get 10 or so touches - but I believe Charles will be the undisputed primary RB starting this week. I am not surprised by how the Cheifs have played this whole situation. Reid has always been pretty mum and unclear about his players when it comes to who is playing and how much, he's crafty. If you're the coach of the Chiefs and are responsible for wins and losses and expected to go far in the playoffs, who are you going to start? Charles is healthy and ready to go, I would encourage folks not to overthink this one. If you have Ware and nobody clearly better, you might as well give him a shot and see what happens, but I certainly wouldn't expect unchanged opportunities for Ware. I'd expect a decrease in touches.
Chiefs goal = win football games. Go to Super Bowl. Best chance is to have healthy players. RBBC helps keep two key offensive players healthy and fresh. Especially IF both are effective
Your FF goal = win FF games. Go to championship game. Best chance is to own that 3-down stud RB. RBBC frustrates and disrupts that chance
The key is the "if." If both effective, then I fully expect a timeshare. If not (due to injury or fumbles or whatever) then one can be THAT guy. Nothing tells me that THAT guy is known now. So we watch and wait
Your FF goal = win FF games. Go to championship game. Best chance is to own that 3-down stud RB. RBBC frustrates and disrupts that chance
The key is the "if." If both effective, then I fully expect a timeshare. If not (due to injury or fumbles or whatever) then one can be THAT guy. Nothing tells me that THAT guy is known now. So we watch and wait
ryno1980
Footballguy
We haven't seen that he is, in fact, healthy and ready to go. When we see that, and see him carry a heavy load, you can make this declaration. Until then, it's logical to think that it's a 2-man committee.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
I don't think that's a very logical conclusion. The Chiefs have a HUGE divisional game this weekend and they can start their backup RB who has filled in well but also has 3 consecutive games with a fumble. OR, they can start their perennial pro bowl RB with a career avg of 5.5 ypc. If you attack the logic from the perspective of Andy Reid, I think the logical choice is to give Charles primary duties. I do think Ware will get some touches but I don't think it's 50/50 unless the Chiefs are in a blowout. I think they turn Charles loose. It may be a different story if they were undefeated but they're not and they're 3rd in their division.ryno1980 said:
Completely agree. I think JC is Arian 2.0. I don't know that 2 carries for 7 yards in a game he likely wouldn't have been activated in if West was healthy will evolve so quickly to "turning him loose" and some of the other descriptors I've read. Us Ware owners may be completely delusional but I think it's likely enough that we aren't to keep holding.jvdesigns2002 said:
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ryno1980
Footballguy
I am attacking it from Reid's perspective. We're talking about a 2-2 team, not an 0-4 one. Even All pro players need some sort of preseason, especially those at age 30 coming off ACL tears. Expecting 20 carries out of the gate here is a major miscalculation. It's definitely not impossible but too much uncertainty. I think they're both flex starts this week unless we're talking deeper leagues.
Rhythmdoctor
Footballguy
To be clear, I'm not predicting any number of carries. All I'm saying is that Charles is going to get the bulk of touches (rushes/catches). I'm not buying that he'll be 'sprinkled in'. I think that's coach diversion speak. Charles had his preseason with the practice squad for the last several weeks. He says he's 110% and that the training wheels are coming off this week. Chiefs have a great opportunity to get a divisional win this weekend and Ware has fumbled 3 games in a row. It's time to win and Ware is an excellent Charles handcuff but no longer going to be the workhorse, imo.
ex-ghost
Footballguy
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I am playing Ware over White in one league, so yes on that. Gio and Forte are sort of lateral moves in my mind but would likely choose Gio with the thought that Cinncy will be in catch up mode during most of the game.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
West seems to be "the guy" for now, this week. I can see him getting 15-20 rushes. Ya gotta like that. Ware, perhaps 6-10 carries? Pryor...well. Pryor or West? West has a decent floor and ceiling. Pryor may have a higher ceiling, but lower floor too? Still watching the Ware / Charles wire. I can see Charles dominate in this game?
West seems to be the guy? Think Team Smokin' is smokin' too much.
It boggles my mind that people actually think Charles is going to carry the load this week. They will use them both. And in what looks to be a shootout against Oakland both could be decent plays as low RB2 to Flex.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
He's only averaging 16 touches now.Rhythmdoctor said:
Frank Black
Footballguy
I have to play Ware this week because of injuries and byes. I'm not expecting high production from him. I'm not even expecting significant goal line carries over Charles, given that the roles have changed and Ware has fumbling issues. Basically, Ware owners are depending on luck if we start him, IMO.
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
I believe West is the guy this week. Dixon still getting his feet wet. I see Charles dominating and Ware filling it admirable. That's why they play the game. I'm completely straight and sober right now
FF Wiseguy
Footballguy
kyoun1e misunderstood which West you were talking about.I believe West is the guy this week. Dixon still getting his feet wet. I see Charles dominating and Ware filling it admirable. That's why they play the game. I'm completely straight and sober right now
Team Smokin'
Footballguy
sho nuff
Footballguy
Well, that didt work out thanks to the terrible OL and penalties. He was close to having a pretty nice night with that TD that was called back though
Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
I'm in the same boat and feel the same way. Have to start him due to injuries and bye's in one league and I am not confident at all. Luckily I am loaded at RB in the other league I have Ware so I don't have to even consider starting him there.
Morton Muffley
Footballguy
I, too, have to start Ware this week but seem to be alone in being very comfortable doing so. What am I missing? Charles is recovering from his second ACL injury, didn't look terribly good before the bye, coaches are saying he'll be "sprinkled in," and Ware is a capable back (minus the fumbling issue which doesn't appear to have any historical basis).
Indeed, there's only two explanations for Charles' uninvolvement in the first 5 weeks:
- He's not himself: in which case why would they suddenly give him the majority of carries?
- They have been holding him out because they want to keep him fresh: in which case why suddenly give him the majority of the carries?
Do Reid/Childress have a history of misleading through the press? If not, why do we not believe that "sprinkling" means the minority of carries?
I'm thinking the stat line this week looks something like:
Ware: 14 for 75 and 1TD rushing and 3/30/0 receiving
Charles: 8 for 38 and 0 TDs rushing and 5/55/1 receiving
as always, just my opinion and looking forward to hearing others POV on why the coaching comments are wrong
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Any reports on how reps played out in practice this week?
Dope
Footballguy
in my 3 leagues:
1. Owner who has Charles has him currently on the bench. Owner who has Ware has him in the lineup.
2. Owner has both Charles and Ware and hasn't submitted his lineup yet. Likely waiting for Sunday. Weak team will have to start one if not both.
3. Owner who has Charles has him on bench. Owner who has Ware has him on bench. Both Owners have decent alternatives.
1. Owner who has Charles has him currently on the bench. Owner who has Ware has him in the lineup.
2. Owner has both Charles and Ware and hasn't submitted his lineup yet. Likely waiting for Sunday. Weak team will have to start one if not both.
3. Owner who has Charles has him on bench. Owner who has Ware has him on bench. Both Owners have decent alternatives.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Good post and agree 100%. Ware will have a role but this is too important of a game for the Chiefs not to lean on their best guy -- they need a win to stay competitive in the division, and even better, get closer to the AFC West leaders.
The only thing that will limit Charles is how he rebounds from his injury at game speed. May be that he needs to knock rust off, or that we find out that he isn't the same back at 30 with multiple knee issues. Could be that he pulls a ADP 2015 on us.
We won't know how this plays out for Charles, but he will be given every shot as the Chiefs lead back going forward.
Milkman
Footballguy
and if Ware proves he's better than Charles (at his age) he will eat into Charles's carries. Ware has fumbled and he had a TD reversed on one of his fumbles but he's still 5th in yards from scrimmage per game for RB this year. He's been great in JC's absence except for the fumbles.....
Bell - 166
DJ - 139
D. Murray- 126.6
Elliot- 125.4
Ware - 120.8
20 yard drop after the top 5 in Yards from scrimmage per game.......People are undervaluing the chance that he outplays JC or that he's good enough to get the ball 10-15 times with JC starting.
Bell - 166
DJ - 139
D. Murray- 126.6
Elliot- 125.4
Ware - 120.8
20 yard drop after the top 5 in Yards from scrimmage per game.......People are undervaluing the chance that he outplays JC or that he's good enough to get the ball 10-15 times with JC starting.
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Shutout
Footballguy
Enough waffling, let's put our money where our mouth is.
In ppr , I think Charles noticeably outscores Ware this week. My reasoning is I simply think Charles is ready and he's a special talent and it is hard for me to envision a scenario where we see him standing on the sideline watching Ware do all the heavy lifting. It just goes against the mentality of how team leaders are in football. The raiders are better this year also and it could mean a competitive game, in which case, Charles may be trusted more in crunch time. Final thought, Ware has been very good in the passing game but we should remember how good Charles is in the passing game and Alex smith knows that.
In ppr , I think Charles noticeably outscores Ware this week. My reasoning is I simply think Charles is ready and he's a special talent and it is hard for me to envision a scenario where we see him standing on the sideline watching Ware do all the heavy lifting. It just goes against the mentality of how team leaders are in football. The raiders are better this year also and it could mean a competitive game, in which case, Charles may be trusted more in crunch time. Final thought, Ware has been very good in the passing game but we should remember how good Charles is in the passing game and Alex smith knows that.
Milkman
Footballguy
If it's the old JC it's his job. There is no guarantee its going to be the old JC though. All I'm saying is Ware's a stud, that happens to be fumbling right now, and people are underestimating how good he's been this year because of the fumbles and lack of TD's.
wilked
Footballguy
Dizzy
Footballguy
Yeah, that was pure torture. Watched 11-12 pts come off the board from penalties and a bobbled catch at the end. Turrible.
SaintsInDome2006
Footballguy
AP started week 1 that year. The Chiefs have had 9 weeks of pre game practice and 5 weeks of RS rest and practice to evaluate Charles. They already know the answer, we're waiting to find out.
DropKick
Footballguy
I would say this a pretty fair and practical assessment of how this has been managed and can/will play-out.
I put little stock in a coaches statements; whether that be player "x" deserves more touches or we'll sprinkle in Charles. The Charles threat is real because we know what kind of player he is (was?)... but there are questions regarding his ability to stay on the field or if he remains the same player post injuries. If he is the player of old, and continues to post near record YPC, I can him getting the lion's share of touches.
Ware is a "hold" because of Charles' injury history and age. No way I release him in dynasty. His ceiling is a top back with an injury but his floor remains as a flex option. Probably safe to play him this week because I suspect they'll manage Charles' carries (at least initially). So, we have the week to observe.
I'm not "gloom and doom" on Ware. The Chiefs have won plenty of games while Charles was on the shelf and that may change their thinking. They may truly want to keep JC on a pitch count. He may have lost a step or two... Plenty of reason to pro-Ware.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Starting with confidence and my only alternatives are Powell and DeAngelo.
Baloney Sandwich
Footballguy
Gandalf
Footballguy
True for this year I guess if that happens. I was thinking more dynasty where that plan seems more viable as the chance of prolonged RBBC situation seems low to me.
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need2know
Footballguy
Seems like most of the wind and rain should be gone by gametime. Looks way worse today. Doubt it will be much of a factor
Andrew74
Footballguy
Shutout
Footballguy
Someone above posted something that reminded me of a post/thought I had a few weeks or month ago or so: From a logical point of view, what we have seen is really what makes the most sense from a real life perspective from the Chiefs in holding Charles out until the bye. It seems to make sense that he now gets a shortened season to help get the into the playoffs. As it turns out, this is a pretty big game all of a sudden to get the Chiefs back in the firm mix of things in the division and pull the raiders back down to the pack (wow! been a LONG time since we said that but that's where we are).
So, all in all, I don't look at this at all about lingering concerns or rust or uncertainty in how the roles will be. I look at it as the Chiefs had a great luxury problem and played it smart. They can now use their best player in the best way. Ware will have his role and it probably won't be much different than what any other very capable 2nd guy on a team does (It's not like Charles was ever a 85% of the touches guy to begin with). Ware has proven he's good so he'll make some noise with his role and help the Chiefs win games. The one BIG FF concern I would have if I owned Ware is that because he has been putting the ball on the ground, I think the Chiefs might take a scenario (2 yards out, trying to kill clock with a late drive, etc) that could easily be a toss up or hot hand call and they may lean more towards Charles because of that. But, then again, I remember Charles coughing one up last year and costing a game and there was never a blink. Reid basically said "it's football and it happens".
So, all in all, I don't look at this at all about lingering concerns or rust or uncertainty in how the roles will be. I look at it as the Chiefs had a great luxury problem and played it smart. They can now use their best player in the best way. Ware will have his role and it probably won't be much different than what any other very capable 2nd guy on a team does (It's not like Charles was ever a 85% of the touches guy to begin with). Ware has proven he's good so he'll make some noise with his role and help the Chiefs win games. The one BIG FF concern I would have if I owned Ware is that because he has been putting the ball on the ground, I think the Chiefs might take a scenario (2 yards out, trying to kill clock with a late drive, etc) that could easily be a toss up or hot hand call and they may lean more towards Charles because of that. But, then again, I remember Charles coughing one up last year and costing a game and there was never a blink. Reid basically said "it's football and it happens".
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