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Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (2 Viewers)

Originally  had JC in as RB2 and Powell as flex -- with 5 min. to game time, switched out Powell for Ware -- phew

Will be interesting moving forward -

 
163 total yards from scrimmage. Just 43 more yards from scrimmage than he's averaging for the year per game. 

 
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Hm, so that was the most he's been utilized (26 times) all year. Obviously game flow was in his favor.

I'm not sure we should expect the same volume next week but he's still crazy efficient/effective on his touches. 

 
SameSongNDance said:
Hm, so that was the most he's been utilized (26 times) all year. Obviously game flow was in his favor.

I'm not sure we should expect the same volume next week but he's still crazy efficient/effective on his touches. 
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Yeah I think most games he won't get 20 touches but 15 to 20 is enough to do some damage in this offense 

 
need2know said:
Seems like he's a strong rb2 even with Charles in there.  He's a better thomas jones
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He's getting 15-20 touches a week and is a good bet to score.  It's the same committee of old, only now Reid gets to run it 40 times without killing one guy.

 
need2know said:
Yeah I think most games he won't get 20 touches but 15 to 20 is enough to do some damage in this offense 
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Agreed.  So what else did we learn today?  Here are my take-aways, assumptions, and conclusions.

Charles looks ok.  Not bad, not great, but "fine."  He demonstrated good vision and patience and I expect he'll get better and increased use every week.

That said, I don't see Ware's touches going down too much.  Charles will steal touches from West, not Ware. 

In addition, I think we saw that Ware will close out games in which they need to burn clock.

Reid will use both Ware and Charles inside the 5.  Those expecting Ware to get ALL goal-line looks are gonna be disappointed.   I'm not just talking Poe here (which is clearly an abberation), Charles has the vision and patience to be very effective at the goal line and if Reid was comfortable using him today I don't see why that would change.

My prediction for the near term (i.e. next 2-3 games) is that this wil be 60-40 split favoring Ware (because he'll close out games).  Longer term, it's possible we'll see the pro-bowl Charles which could flip the splits to be 60-40 favoring Charles, but that day may never come, we'll see.

Anyone see it differently?  Anything I missed?

 
Morton Muffley said:
Agreed.  So what else did we learn today?  Here are my take-aways, assumptions, and conclusions.

Charles looks ok.  Not bad, not great, but "fine."  He demonstrated good vision and patience and I expect he'll get better and increased use every week.

That said, I don't see Ware's touches going down too much.  Charles will steal touches from West, not Ware. 

In addition, I think we saw that Ware will close out games in which they need to burn clock.

Reid will use both Ware and Charles inside the 5.  Those expecting Ware to get ALL goal-line looks are gonna be disappointed.   I'm not just talking Poe here (which is clearly an abberation), Charles has the vision and patience to be very effective at the goal line and if Reid was comfortable using him today I don't see why that would change.

My prediction for the near term (i.e. next 2-3 games) is that this wil be 60-40 split favoring Ware (because he'll close out games).  Longer term, it's possible we'll see the pro-bowl Charles which could flip the splits to be 60-40 favoring Charles, but that day may never come, we'll see.

Anyone see it differently?  Anything I missed?
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You missed where that all pro RB West fits into the equation. 

 
Morton Muffley said:
Charles looks ok.  Not bad, not great, but "fine."  He demonstrated good vision and patience and I expect he'll get better and increased use every week.
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I think he'll look better immediately when playing on a dry field. The loose wet turf today did not favor his quick, shifty style.

 
In my opinion--both RB's looked good today.   Ware was running really tough and Jamaal had a couple runs where he moved a pile and showed some solid cutting and speed.   I think that for me--all today proved was that there is no reason for KC to rush Charles back into a bell cow role.   He will slowly but surely look better with time and KC has nothing to gain by just throwing him out there to be beaten up unnecessarily.   For those of which thought that today was the day where Charles either gains his bell cow status back--or if today forces the Chiefs hands into giving him bell cow status asap--I think today was a setback for you.  While I still think that Charles may end up being the lead back--I think today pushed that back at least 1-2 weeks at the very least.  I do think that today showed that Ware could confidently be started as a solid flex option because of his upside alone.  The dude seems to put up decent RB2 numbers with anything close to 10-12 touches--and is in the RB1 conversation with anything approaching 20 touches.  With that being said--I'd say today was a mild to moderate win for Charles owners--and a moderate to strong win for Ware owners. Both sides can walk away with good stuff to feel good about.  

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
In my opinion--both RB's looked good today.   Ware was running really tough and Jamaal had a couple runs where he moved a pile and showed some solid cutting and speed.   I think that for me--all today proved was that there is no reason for KC to rush Charles back into a bell cow role.   He will slowly but surely look better with time and KC has nothing to gain by just throwing him out there to be beaten up unnecessarily.   For those of which thought that today was the day where Charles either gains his bell cow status back--or if today forces the Chiefs hands into giving him bell cow status asap--I think today was a setback for you.  While I still think that Charles may end up being the lead back--I think today pushed that back at least 1-2 weeks at the very least.  I do think that today showed that Ware could confidently be started as a solid flex option because of his upside alone.  The dude seems to put up decent RB2 numbers with anything close to 10-12 touches--and is in the RB1 conversation with anything approaching 20 touches.  With that being said--I'd say today was a mild to moderate win for Charles owners--and a moderate to strong win for Ware owners. Both sides can walk away with good stuff to feel good about.  
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Yep, I agree. I was one of the guys who really thought JC would get a primary workload today and I was wrong.  I still think he can be the guy but your assessment above is correct, imo.  The Chiefs would love to go into the playoffs with a healthy Charles and Ware is certainly studly in this offense.

 
Morton Muffley said:
Agreed.  So what else did we learn today?  Here are my take-aways, assumptions, and conclusions.

Charles looks ok.  Not bad, not great, but "fine."  He demonstrated good vision and patience and I expect he'll get better and increased use every week.

That said, I don't see Ware's touches going down too much.  Charles will steal touches from West, not Ware. 

In addition, I think we saw that Ware will close out games in which they need to burn clock.

Reid will use both Ware and Charles inside the 5.  Those expecting Ware to get ALL goal-line looks are gonna be disappointed.   I'm not just talking Poe here (which is clearly an abberation), Charles has the vision and patience to be very effective at the goal line and if Reid was comfortable using him today I don't see why that would change.

My prediction for the near term (i.e. next 2-3 games) is that this wil be 60-40 split favoring Ware (because he'll close out games).  Longer term, it's possible we'll see the pro-bowl Charles which could flip the splits to be 60-40 favoring Charles, but that day may never come, we'll see.

Anyone see it differently?  Anything I missed?
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Nope.  I'm a Ware owner and saw enough to think Charles will be a factor if he stays healthy.  Will get his GL touches as well.  RBBC by committee, go with hot hand, enough for both to eat in most weeks.

 
LawFitz said:
Other than when West and Charles have both been hobbled, Ware has shared ~50% of a committee in terms of snaps, going back to his emergence last year. I predicted that would continue early this year and was chased out of this thread by Ware extremists. 

I think this week at least they ease Charles in and he gets no more than the West snaps, while Ware maintains the same role he's had. Against the Raiders that could easily be good for 15+ pts.

Realistically, going forward probably depends on how explosive Charles looks and whether or not Ware's sweaty forearms continue to be an issue. But Jamaal is older and clearly coming off a complicated injury, so it's probably in the Chiefs best interest to limit him if Ware can perform capably in his stead.

Another observation I made early this year was that Ware beat up on #### defenses last year and the real test would be weeks 2-4 this year (Hou, NYJ, Pit). He averaged just over 8 PPG in those games in my 0.5 PPR league.

That said the schedule eases up tremendously going forward (Oak, NO, Ind, Jax, Car, TB, Den, Atl, Oak, Ten, Den). IF he maintains ~50% of the snaps, other than in the three games against Den/Ten, I see him as a very viable RB2. Granted, the last two Ten/Den games are in the fantasy playoffs so there is that.
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Following up, I think it's pretty fair at this point to assume Ware is going to continue getting ~50% of the snaps, making him a reasonable RB2 play, with RB1 upside (when game flow plays his way) against all of the bold above. Ware got 62% of snaps yesterday to Jamaal's 23%.

I saw a couple things that may or may not be meaningful about Jamaal's recovery status:

1. He seemed really emotional after scoring the TD. Just further confirmation of how much of a struggle this knee injury has been.

2. Charcandrick West got 12% of the snaps. These were part of the Jamaal pie long term IMO. Tells me they are indeed still easing him in. Not sure when that will shift going forward, but if Ware keeps up his stellar play, it's really hard for me to see Jamaal getting significantly more than ~50%; I think he'll be supplanting the shifty West more than the bulldozing Ware.

 
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Ware is averaging 5.2ypc on the season. The only team that has been able to hold Ware under 5.5ypc so far this year has been NYJ and he still put up a respectable line vs. them (20/75/0). He was also, in my opinion, robbed of a TD (and subsequent yardage) in that game but I digress..

Against softer defensive fronts I feel really confident that he will produce. On the docket are NO and IND.

NO is currently giving up a the most ppg to RBs and this is mostly due to the fact that they've given up the most TDs (11). There also giving up a healthy 4.4ypc.

The line has opened with KC -7 so I doubt Ware sees the kind of volume he did last week. Still considering the match-up I feel pretty confident expecting something like 14/70/1 and 3/30/0. Clearly there is upside for more, specifically in the TD department, but I also want to be careful not to weigh last week too heavily.

Also, the snap/utilization breakdown between Ware/Charles thus far..

Ware - 72%, 18 and 62%, 26

Charles - 13%, 3 and 23%, 11

I'm personally assuming that this will move closer to 1:1 in both the snap/utilization department as the season progresses.

 
SameSongNDance said:
Ware is averaging 5.2ypc on the season. The only team that has been able to hold Ware under 5.5ypc so far this year has been NYJ and he still put up a respectable line vs. them (20/75/0). He was also, in my opinion, robbed of a TD (and subsequent yardage) in that game but I digress..

Against softer defensive fronts I feel really confident that he will produce. On the docket are NO and IND.

NO is currently giving up a the most ppg to RBs and this is mostly due to the fact that they've given up the most TDs (11). There also giving up a healthy 4.4ypc.

The line has opened with KC -7 so I doubt Ware sees the kind of volume he did last week. Still considering the match-up I feel pretty confident expecting something like 14/70/1 and 3/30/0. Clearly there is upside for more, specifically in the TD department, but I also want to be careful not to weigh last week too heavily.

Also, the snap/utilization breakdown between Ware/Charles thus far..

Ware - 72%, 18 and 62%, 26

Charles - 13%, 3 and 23%, 11

I'm personally assuming that this will move closer to 1:1 in both the snap/utilization department as the season progresses.
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Can't wait to hear the rationale on this...Big home favorite against a D that just got bullied by J. Stewart, who runs a lot like Ware.

 
Sleeperbot just reported Andy Reid as saying Jamaal still isn't ready for a full workload. Choo choo until further notice, Ware.

 
SameSongNDance said:
Ware is averaging 5.2ypc on the season. The only team that has been able to hold Ware under 5.5ypc so far this year has been NYJ and he still put up a respectable line vs. them (20/75/0). He was also, in my opinion, robbed of a TD (and subsequent yardage) in that game but I digress..

Against softer defensive fronts I feel really confident that he will produce. On the docket are NO and IND.

NO is currently giving up a the most ppg to RBs and this is mostly due to the fact that they've given up the most TDs (11). There also giving up a healthy 4.4ypc.

The line has opened with KC -7 so I doubt Ware sees the kind of volume he did last week. Still considering the match-up I feel pretty confident expecting something like 14/70/1 and 3/30/0. Clearly there is upside for more, specifically in the TD department, but I also want to be careful not to weigh last week too heavily.

Also, the snap/utilization breakdown between Ware/Charles thus far..

Ware - 72%, 18 and 62%, 26

Charles - 13%, 3 and 23%, 11

I'm personally assuming that this will move closer to 1:1 in both the snap/utilization department as the season progresses.
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Does anyone know what the snap count and touches looked like by quarter?   Seemed like Ware got disproportionately more work later on.

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Does anyone know what the snap count and touches looked like by quarter?   Seemed like Ware got disproportionately more work later on.
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I don't but I suspect any increased work load he got was due to the fact that the Chiefs were up by a good margin and they were trying to run out the clock on a sloppy field.  No reason to use Charles in that situation and risk potential re-injury.  So it's hard to say whether the late usage is an indicator of how they will be used going forward, or just a matter of how the game played out and the field conditions. 

 
skillz said:
I don't but I suspect any increased work load he got was due to the fact that the Chiefs were up by a good margin and they were trying to run out the clock on a sloppy field.  No reason to use Charles in that situation and risk potential re-injury.  So it's hard to say whether the late usage is an indicator of how they will be used going forward, or just a matter of how the game played out and the field conditions. 
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Chiefs coach Andy Reid still doesn't think Jamaal Charles is ready for a full workload.
"Is he ready to carry it every down? I don’t think that’s where were at right this minute," Reid said Monday. "But he got more carries than he did against Pittsburgh, and his attitude — from the get go — has been give me the ball, I want to play. The attitude is awesome." Spencer Ware out-touched Charles 26-11 against the Raiders, and though the discrepancy may not be quite as dramatic for Week 7, Ware is definitely the safer fantasy play.

 
 
Source: Kansas City Star
Oct 17 - 3:27 PM

 
Any chance their starting to showcase Ware for trade possibilities...Which team(s) going forward might be tempted.?

New England

Raiders

Ravens

Redskins

Vikings

In a couple of weeks the Chiefs might feel secure with Charles/ West going forward.

 
Judge Smails said:
Can't wait to hear the rationale on this...Big home favorite against a D that just got bullied by J. Stewart, who runs a lot like Ware.
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I read it completely incorrectly at first and thought NO was -7  :bag:

The premise behind my prediction/projection is now completely wrong haha. 

 
With Howard, Michael and Miller all having terrible matchups this week, I am definitely starting Ware against the Saints. The game being in KC is huge as the Chiefs are usually better at home and the Saints really struggle away from the dome. Hopefully they'll be draining the clock down for most of the 2nd half giving Ware a ton of carries.

I'm sure it will somehow get screwed up though. So far I have played Ware the 3 weeks in which he didn't go off and benched him for both of his 20 point performances.

 
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jimmy b said:
Any chance their starting to showcase Ware for trade possibilities...Which team(s) going forward might be tempted.?

New England

Raiders

Ravens

Redskins

Vikings

In a couple of weeks the Chiefs might feel secure with Charles/ West going forward.
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I would think they'd keep Ware.  They just signed him to a cheap contract, he's playing great and he's just turning 25 next month. 

 
Andrew74 said:
I would think they'd keep Ware.  They just signed him to a cheap contract, he's playing great and he's just turning 25 next month. 
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Right, the Chiefs would likely want to see what they got in Ware this season not to trade him but so they can determine if they want to move on from Charles and go with Ware as their main back next season. 

 
skillz said:
I don't but I suspect any increased work load he got was due to the fact that the Chiefs were up by a good margin and they were trying to run out the clock on a sloppy field.  No reason to use Charles in that situation and risk potential re-injury.  So it's hard to say whether the late usage is an indicator of how they will be used going forward, or just a matter of how the game played out and the field conditions. 
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for those worried about Ware's fumbilitis, I also think him getting so many touches more accurately reflect what the coaches think of him...

 
Why would they even considering trading Ware.  Because they have a high mileage, 30 year old running back looking spry?  Doesn't sound like a smart plan

 
Just wanted to thank those of you who advised me to start Brandin Cooks over both Ware and Charles.  My apologies if that post came across as a WDIS. 

Looking to next week I feel like I have to start Ware vs. NO but will consider starting both Ware and Charles.

 
jimmy b said:
Any chance their starting to showcase Ware for trade possibilities...Which team(s) going forward might be tempted.?

New England

Raiders

Ravens

Redskins

Vikings

In a couple of weeks the Chiefs might feel secure with Charles/ West going forward.
Click to expand...
No way they're trading Ware and keeping an injury prone 30 year old back like Charles.  Ware is their stud RB for the next five years. This'll be Charles' last year in Kansas City.

 
The reality is RB's are hardly traded in season. So neither of them are likely going anywhere this season. Next year is a different story. It would be surprising if JC is in the Cheif's plans. Which might a be a good thing for everybody involved. 

 
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