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Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (1 Viewer)

Yes there are other ways to take it. Personally I take it, as "no news". I'm not even sure he sought to be cleared yet this week. I doubt these guys are going to the independent neurologists every day until they are cleared. Is that how you think it works?
I don't know how it works, honestly. I don't know why any player would not seek to be cleared as soon as possible. I do know that players have regularly come back to practice the following week (Ware didn't) and even played the following week as it looks like Evans will do ... who looked like he sustained a much higher degree of trauma/force to his head hitting the ground than Ware did on his hit that took him out (which is why I think there could have been a hit earlier and he played with a concussion like Alex Smith did).

I'd still like someone with all22 access to post (or at least give analysis) on the last play of the 1st quarter of the Ware IND game. That could clear up fuzziness on this issue. Has there been a less talked about star player on a team who recently received a potentially serious injury? Even NE is talking up a Lewis return. Why is there no info on Ware? All we know is he can't pass the protocol at this point and its in the 2nd week. Its not "no news." The seriousness grows each day he doesn't play.

 
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 All we know is he can't pass the protocol at this point and its in the 2nd week.
Yeah, we don't really know that. We know he HASN'T passed it yet - but we also don't know if he was tested today. Maybe he's scheduled for later today or tomorrow a.m.? The "2nd week" part is also a but disingenuous since this week just started. He didn't pass during the first week. That's all we really know at this point.

 
I don't know how it works, honestly. I don't know why any player would not seek to be cleared as soon as possible. I do know that players have regularly come back to practice the following week (Ware didn't) and even played the following week as it looks like Evans will do ... who looked like he sustained a much higher degree of trauma/force to his head hitting the ground than Ware did on his hit that took him out (which is why I think there could have been a hit earlier and he played with a concussion like Alex Smith did).

I'd still like someone with all22 access to post (or at least give analysis) on the last play of the 1st quarter of the Ware IND game. That could clear up fuzziness on this issue. Has there been a less talked about star player on a team who recently received a potentially serious injury? Even NE is talking up a Lewis return. Why is there no info on Ware? All we know is he can't pass the protocol at this point and its in the 2nd week. Its not no news. The seriousness grows each day he doesn't play.
 because it's not the players call.

If it were something earth shattering why did they not rule him out last wed like smith?

They gave him a week.  let's see what happens this wed.  you are making this into way more than it is.

I will say this. if Ware starts this week he's in my lineup.  if not, I'm not starting west vs car

 
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Yeah, we don't really know that. We know he HASN'T passed it yet - but we also don't know if he was tested today. Maybe he's scheduled for later today or tomorrow a.m.? The "2nd week" part is also a but disingenuous since this week just started. He didn't pass during the first week. That's all we really know at this point.
I don't know why any player/team would not seek to be cleared as soon as possible. If it was me, I would try to get cleared as soon as possible. They did try to clear him and he failed. We know that. I don't think I am being disingenuous, and I'll buy that he couldn't clear protocol enough to even step on the field for non contact in the first week if that makes you feel better. I can buy that. At what point would you be worried if he still cannot pass the test? Wednesday? Thursday? Friday? Game day? Would you be worried if he missed two weeks? I guess we all have different thresholds of worry, but he didn't pass the first round(s) so if he had I think we all would have breathed a sigh of relief. I am glad you don't worry about things that re in doubt, or otherwise described as uncertain, but I do.

 
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I don't know why any player would not seek to be cleared as soon as possible. If it was me, I would try to get cleared as soon as possible. They did try to clear him and he failed. We know that. I don't think I am being disingenuous, and I'll buy that he couldn't clear protocol enough to even step on the field for non contact in the first week if that makes you feel better. I can buy that. At what point would you be worried if he still cannot pass the test? Wednesday? Thursday? Friday? Game day? Would you be worried if he missed two weeks? I guess we all have different thresholds of worry, but he didn't pass the first round(s) so if he had I think we all would have breathed a sigh of relief. I am glad you don't worry about things that re in doubt, or otherwise described as uncertain, but I do.
I don't think you're worried at all to be honest.

 
 because it's not the players call.

If it were something earth shattering why did they not rule him out last wed like smith?

They gave him a week.  let's see what happens this wed.  you are making this into way more than it is.

I will say this. if Ware starts this week he's in my lineup.  if not, I'm not starting west vs car
I don't get the hyperbole here. Its not earth shattering when my dog gets out, and he most likely will come back, but I still worry about it and look for him when he digs under the fence. I never said it was earth shattering, but its never good news when the dog gets out. It might not be earth shattering bad news, but its not good news. Nothing good can come of it. This is the case with this concussion protocol failure. Its not earth shattering that he couldn't pass the first week, but its also not to be taken lightly or considered good news.

 
I don't think you're worried at all to be honest.
Of course I am worried. Ware has been a stalwart for my team. I want him back as bad as the next guy. West didn't exactly tear it up last week. But I don't look at it through rose colored glasses either. I had Jahvid Best on my team so maybe that's why I worry about guys that don't come back right away from concussions.

 
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Javid Best had several concussions before coming into the league. Plus, he had that massive, devastating, apocalyptic concussion in college. I don't think bringing up Best adds anything to the discussion about Ware. If this was his 3rd or 4th, we could bring up Javid. 

 
I mentioned something similar to this earlier in reference to my son's football team this last year.  Players react differently and recover differently from a concussion.  Some are ready to go the next week, some take several weeks.  It's my understanding that testing has a few phases to it.  I would guess that when a player goes through testing the person testing recommends another review in one day, three days or a week based on what sort of improvement they are seeing on the test.  Not much can be done but sit and wait until his brain recovers.

 
Of course I am worried. Ware has been a stalwart for my team. I want him back as bad as the next guy. West didn't exactly tear it up last week. But I don't look at it through rose colored glasses either. I had Jahvid Best on my team so maybe that's why I worry about guys that don't come back right away from concussions.
What's "right away" in your mind? Most players miss at least one game when they suffer a concussion and that's all that he's missed thus far. And Jahvid Best, really? You're trying way too hard here.

 
Andrew74 said:
Javid Best had several concussions before coming into the league. Plus, he had that massive, devastating, apocalyptic concussion in college. I don't think bringing up Best adds anything to the discussion about Ware. If this was his 3rd or 4th, we could bring up Javid. 
It's a popular example because it was spot lighted, and its the easiest way to remind about the dangers of concussions without using a long winded paragraph, but since you think it doesn't belong here, I'll remove it from the conversation.

There are numerous careers ended in NFL/NHL at young ages by players that were concussed at a younger age. How do you know Ware didn't suffer concussions during his HS/college play? They are not always diagnosed. NHL calls em conkies and they routinely happen in HS/college to players every week and they never get reported. You have to wonder if this was his first one and its no big deal, why didn't he pass the first time? Something was obviously wrong or he would have at least been able to practice with non contact drills. With his running style I would be surprised if this was his first concussion of his life, but I honestly don't know and am not suggesting it, but its entirely probable he has already had a concussion before last week.

 
Dr. Octopus said:
What's "right away" in your mind? Most players miss at least one game when they suffer a concussion and that's all that he's missed thus far. And Jahvid Best, really? You're trying way too hard here.
Guys smarter than me did a study and said fully half the players actually come back by the next game. Its the 2nd point in bold in case you missed it. So I guess you stand corrected? It's the Shark Pool so I don't expect an apology or thanks for enlightening you.

Anyway, for those following along lurking, This is why you hope for a quick return (characterized by playing in the next game as half the players do!

 
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Listen, could Ware have suffered a devastating career ending concussion? Sure it's possible, but what good would it do to act like that's a given because he missed one week and hasn't been cleared for the second week on Monday?  

 
Guys smarter than me did a study and said fully half the players actually come back by the next game. Its the 2nd point in bold in case you missed it. So I guess you stand corrected? This is why that is what you hope for and why when they come back for the next game you can breathe a sigh of relief.
Setting the bar low eh?

 
All this worrying is not healthy.  Ever heard of hope for the best, plan for the worst?  Ware may or may not play this week. If you have to make a protective move in case he doesnt play go ahead and make it - that would be smart.

 
All this worrying is not healthy.  Ever heard of hope for the best, plan for the worst?  Ware may or may not play this week. If you have to make a protective move in case he doesnt play go ahead and make it - that would be smart.
Yeah - I don't really get what mmmplayer is doing here. I know he was all over the West thread stating how West could possibly force a time share after the game against the Jags with a good showing and now all of a sudden Ware is Jahvid Best because he missed one game.

By no means am I trying to downplay concussions and heck, sure it's possible Ware ends up missing multiple weeks, but maybe we should wait until we get the news that he saw an independent neurologist this week and wasn't cleared before we panic?

 
Listen, could Ware have suffered a devastating career ending concussion? Sure it's possible, but what good would it do to act like that's a given because he missed one week and hasn't been cleared for the second week on Monday?  
I never said he was done for the year, that's a straw man argument that you introduced into this thread. I just said let's not pretend this isn't bad news, and certainly isn't a "no news" situation and a worrisome to monitor. It gets even more worrisome if he doesn't make it back for this weeks game. As I stated originally, the longer he is out, the more worrisome it becomes. If you look at that bar chart on the article I linked, you can see the bulk of players return if not the first week, then by the 2nd. If he doesn't make it back by the 4th week then we got some bigtime problems.

 
For all who are interested

Head coach Andy Reid believes the odds are in favor of Ware emerging from the concussion protocol and suiting up Sunday at Carolina, Terez A. Paylor of the Kansas City Star reports.

With intimate knowledge of Ware's standing in the protocol, Reid's words go a long way, but recoveries from such injuries are notoriously fickle to forecast. The first indication of progress would come in the form of an appearance at practice, which hasn't occurred since he sustained a concussion in Week 8. If Ware doesn't uphold Reid's proclamation, Charcandrick West will represent the Chiefs' No. 1 running back for the second straight game.

 
For all who are interested

Head coach Andy Reid believes the odds are in favor of Ware emerging from the concussion protocol and suiting up Sunday at Carolina, Terez A. Paylor of the Kansas City Star reports.
Not directed @n2k, but Reid strung us along pretty good about JC for weeks.  I hope this is accurate about Ware, but agree with all the previous posters saying we'll know when we know, in the meantime prepare for Plan B, just in case.

 
Not directed @n2k, but Reid strung us along pretty good about JC for weeks.  I hope this is accurate about Ware, but agree with all the previous posters saying we'll know when we know, in the meantime prepare for Plan B, just in case.
Terrific point. Not sure taking Reid's word about Ware's health is the most reliable source given history of what we saw him say regarding Charles.

No one is being chicken little here. And no one knows how badly Ware may still be suffering symptoms. Could be we learn something when Ware practices this week; could be we learn that much more about the situation if he continues to be held out.

But given all of this, the amount of "absolutely nothing to see here" comments is puzzling. There's certainly something up with Ware if it is taking more than a week to get out of protocol where most players are usually done by now.

Hopefully it turns out to be a non-story come tomorrow. But to pretend that it couldn't also possibly turn out to be something different (and worse) is like so many ostriches with heads in the sand.

Good advice here -- hope for the best, but you should also plan for the worst just in case.

 
I thought teams don't practice the day after a game? Isn't that the reason Evans is at practice because they played Thursday?

 
I thought teams don't practice the day after a game? Isn't that the reason Evans is at practice because they played Thursday?
Teams that played Sunday usually don't practice until Wednesday, unless they have a game on Thursday or played the following Thursday.

 
I think another reason why West under performed is because KC's OL is below average. They're ranked 20th in power success according to footballoutsiders. A lot of people are still underestimating how good Ware is.

 
It's pretty incredible ware has two rushing TDs on the year.
3 total TDs. Good chance his TD numbers normalize as the year goes on and his TD totals come closer to what a regression model would predict for a guy averaging 115 yards a game. 

 
3 total TDs. Good chance his TD numbers normalize as the year goes on and his TD totals come closer to what a regression model would predict for a guy averaging 115 yards a game.
And leading his team in RZ touches by a very large margin. He had 16 before sitting out last week, the next closest was Kelce with 8.

 
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I never said he was done for the year, that's a straw man argument that you introduced into this thread. I just said let's not pretend this isn't bad news, and certainly isn't a "no news" situation and a worrisome to monitor. It gets even more worrisome if he doesn't make it back for this weeks game. As I stated originally, the longer he is out, the more worrisome it becomes. If you look at that bar chart on the article I linked, you can see the bulk of players return if not the first week, then by the 2nd. If he doesn't make it back by the 4th week then we got some bigtime problems.
Remind me who brought Javid Best into the discussion? What was the point of that?

There must be some agenda. The funny thing is even if there was some reason to be overly concerned before we had any facts on whether he will be cleared this week, what good would it do? He's either going to return or he's not correct? Its not like every fantasy player isn't trying to acquire as much depth as possible either way.

 
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I have searching for news on him as I have been offered Ware in a very good trade opportunity but need to know if he is playing this week.
Chiefs do not practice until Wednesday so we may not hear anything before then. If he's not cleared and/or practicing it would be more likely he could miss another week.

 
Reid saying that there is a "good chance" that he will play this week. Not liking the MU and may play Howard in one league and T. West in another.

 
We will get clarity if he practices....simple as that. If he practices, he will play.

Relax Ware Nation......he will be fine. We need our horse for the stretch run here.

 
Todem said:
We will get clarity if he practices....simple as that. If he practices, he will play.

Relax Ware Nation......he will be fine. We need our horse for the stretch run here.
Thinking optimistically here, but negatively in terms of the matchup this week...

 
Thinking optimistically here, but negatively in terms of the matchup this week...
I almost wouldn't mind him missing this game but then it opens up huge can of worms. Hopefully, they will split the work more evenly this week if he does play. I may even play Ingram against Denver anyway. Their run defense has disappeared. 

 
I'm still trying to figure out how to value West as Ware's handcuff.

He played on 78% of the snaps and was utilized 17 times with Ware out. Davis saw 17% of the snaps and was utilized 4 times. So from a volume standpoint, you still have to like West.

I watched his touches vs. JAC and while he didn't look absolutely awful he still didn't look good. Literally nothing about him really popped off the screen.

Also, KC's schedule looks pretty good moving forward. After CAR they don't really have a single bad match-up.

I'm still leaning towards wanting to own West if I own Ware, specifically in PPR.

 
I'm still trying to figure out how to value West as Ware's handcuff.

He played on 78% of the snaps and was utilized 17 times with Ware out. Davis saw 17% of the snaps and was utilized 4 times. So from a volume standpoint, you still have to like West.

I watched his touches vs. JAC and while he didn't look absolutely awful he still didn't look good. Literally nothing about him really popped off the screen.

Also, KC's schedule looks pretty good moving forward. After CAR they don't really have a single bad match-up.

I'm still leaning towards wanting to own West if I own Ware, specifically in PPR.
This is the smartest guy in this thread. Pay attention.

 
who wouldn't want the handcuff if it was possible?
I don't always think owning a handcuff is worthwhile. In this case, it is. KC has a history of getting production from RBs: Charles, Ware, West, Davis. There isn't much competition for West if Ware is out. I do like the idea at this point of locking down the KC RB position. Late in the year, when RB can get tight, I feel like Ware or West (if Ware is out) is always a start worthy. 

 
Remind me who brought Javid Best into the discussion? What was the point of that?

There must be some agenda. The funny thing is even if there was some reason to be overly concerned before we had any facts on whether he will be cleared this week, what good would it do? He's either going to return or he's not correct? Its not like every fantasy player isn't trying to acquire as much depth as possible either way.
Agenda? I am just being realistic. Under what circumstance is it good news when your RB stud misses a game from concussion? Only bad news can come. Even if he returns next week he is now tainted. What if he gets hit hard again? It's like getting a shiny new car from the dealership and you can't drive it for a week because it got a huge dent in it (its in the shop). Even if you get it back and the dent looks good as new, the metal isn't as strong as it was and you got a lesson on how vulnerable it is going forward. Can we both agree multiple concussions are bad for RBs? Now that he has one documented concussion, is it unreasonable to think it could happen again? What does the value of Ware do at that point? Explain to me how this is no news, especially after he missed a game because of it when half the guys come back without missing a game?

I hope he comes back and I hope he never gets concussed again in his lifetime, but is that a realistic stance to take with his running style and what we learned about the NFL? There is no agenda. I can give you a long list of careers that have ended from concussions in the NHL/NFL, but why bother as you  didn't even take the study I handed you seriously. I'll just be called a tool or whatever else is dreamed up. But lurkers should beware that Ware could take a massive hit in value going forward. Even if its just a scratch on his record, going forward next year during the draft people will point to missing x number of games from a concussion as real risk. And what happens is he gets another one this year and misses more games? Is that the only time we are allowed to worry? Well since most concussions don't get reported at the HS/college level and 1/3 don't at the NFL level I am going to safely assume Ware has been concussed before in his life, which is why he didn't return without missing any games. I could be wrong about this, but neither of us know for sure, so it definitely takes him down a notch in my mind when I compare him to other options of similar skill level.

I have no agenda. I don't love or hate Ware. Can we both agree that even if he comes back next week, that his value takes a small, if even only incremental hit? Or are you of the stance that he is as good as new? His bell got rung on a hit that did not even look that bad on film. He fell forward on his face, didn't hit the ground hard from the side or neck flexing back to hit the back of his head against the ground. You might say, well his concussion was from another hit then, and to that I say, "then that's even worse because he stayed in and kept playing like Alex Smith did and got his bell rung again enough to make them pull him out of a close game where they needed him."

So again, as I said in my original one liner post, only bad news can come from this. There is absolutely nothing that could possibly be taken as good news from missing a game from concussion. Instead of calling me a tool why doesn't somebody tell me how this is good news or a non news situation?

This is a risk reward scenario here. The value meter will move based upon what happens next week. If you are sitting pretty with a good record and can get equal or better value for Ware in a trade before info breaks then why not mitigate the risk? If you wait until he misses another week his value will plummet and keep dropping for every week he misses. Alternatively, if you feel its not big deal, and the Ware owner thinks its a big deal, try to buy Ware low, especially if you need a shot in the arm for your team that has a losing record. Again his value will go up if he plays and plays well next week, so there is opportunity to gain value in either side of this trade, but if you wait until he plays well, the value opportunity will again be missed. Either way the situation is creating value. If you guys can keep from name calling and just refute this, be my guest. Either way West was a good pickup before the concussion happened which is the timely, actionable advice I gave in this thread.

 

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