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Spencer Ware, possibly the new work horse (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Ladsud
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SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Ware sacrificed his life force to get those 96 yards and some jackass WR4 can catch 5 balls for 50 yards and match him. Man is it going to be hard for me to start this dude in PPR moving forward.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I can understand the frustration of him not getting more chances at a td--but I do feel like the amount of saltiness directed towards Ware is a bit unwarranted. We are talking about a guy that most of us drafted in the 7th-12th rounds of drafts (based on when our drafts occurred). Many people may not realize this--but Ware is 7th in the NFL in yards from scrimmage. The guys ahead of him are: David Johnson, EE, Demarco Murray, Melvin Gordon, Julio Jones, and Leveon Bell. Also--keep in mind that Ware has only played in 10 games this season--while every other guy ahead of him (except for Bell who has only played 8 games) has played 11 or 12 games. The dude is producing big time. If you consider the limited touches he was getting earlier in the season--him being 7th in total yards from scrimmage is pretty remarkable. The only thing stopping Ware from being a bonafide elite fantasy player is touchdowns--and he cannot score td's unless his team and his coach put him in a position to do so. Alex Smith is frankly uncomfortable to watch--the dude just makes everything look difficult--and Andy Reid's usage of running backs seems random at best.
With that being said--we have a guy that is averaging 107 yards from scrimmage per game in the ten games he has played in so far this season. For me--that makes him no worse than a high upside RB2.
With that being said--we have a guy that is averaging 107 yards from scrimmage per game in the ten games he has played in so far this season. For me--that makes him no worse than a high upside RB2.
Tau837
Footballguy
I own Ware in all 4 of my leagues, and I started him in all 4 this week, as I have done much of the season (around his concussion issue and bye week). Looks like I will be forced to bench him in most if not all of them until he (Reid) shows he is worth starting. In every league, I had better options on my bench with hindsight.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Our saltiness is directed at Reid. And also maybe all these sites that keep ranking him as an rb1.
drfeelgood
Footballguy
In standard he usually gets around 8 points per game. Touchdowns do hold him back from being a top 10 RB, but so does the number of touches he gets, which is due to the play calling. They also always have him run up the gut. They could be much more creative with him, but they use Hill for anything like that now, although they used him under center a couple times last night. They hardly use him in the passing game, and they just like to throw a lot, which is Andy Reid's signature.
packer_junkie
Footballguy
The guy taking his passing targets is Hill-- not West...
I am pretty shocked that in the final 4th quarter drive and OT the snap count break down was:
West 28
Ware 7
Davis 3
Thats pretty alarming -- not sure what west brings to the table?
I am pretty shocked that in the final 4th quarter drive and OT the snap count break down was:
West 28
Ware 7
Davis 3
Thats pretty alarming -- not sure what west brings to the table?
drfeelgood
Footballguy
West is fast and shifty like JC, and since they were in the hurry up, my guess is that is why he was in.
shadyridr
Footballguy
I dunno man. Ware looks much shiftier than West to me. West isnt terrible or anything and I do think he deserves some playing time but to be the 3rd down back and passing down back when Ware has shown to be even better in the receiving game makes little to no sense to me.
drfeelgood
Footballguy
I think West is faster, but they both are good receivers. Ware is more a bulldozer, and West is more a speedster. I guess they don't want to wear Ware out, so they put West in during 3rd down and passing downs. It is like how the Redskins use Thompson. It is hard to wear Ware out with the limited carries they give him. They could use Ware like Indy uses Gore. Gore usually gets around 15 carries, but they use him some in the passing game too even though Turbin is faster. They use Turbin also, especially in the two minute drill, but they do include Gore in the passing game.
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Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
Ware looked good on both passes thrown to him. The first one was a low throw and he made a nice catch, broke a tackle and picked up the 1st down, and the other was a screen in which he showed some shiftiness and picked up 15 yards. I just don't understand what West does so much better that makes him the permanent 3rd down back, but Reid obviously see's it this way.
It also doesn't help that the Chiefs offense is struggling and they don't get many RZ chances. Hopefully Maclin is back soon and the offense can get back on track. Unfortuantely, with Reid doing Reid things and the Cheifs offense struggling, Ware is just a RB2 with upside. Not bad, but I was hoping for more when I heard Charles was done for the season.
It also doesn't help that the Chiefs offense is struggling and they don't get many RZ chances. Hopefully Maclin is back soon and the offense can get back on track. Unfortuantely, with Reid doing Reid things and the Cheifs offense struggling, Ware is just a RB2 with upside. Not bad, but I was hoping for more when I heard Charles was done for the season.
Ministry of Pain
Footballguy
Team is inept on offense and still manages 30 on Denver...can anyone unwrap this? I watched the game, hard to explain.
Power Monster
The Midnight Stalker
STs and defense are giving them scoring chances and field position. The offense is doing just enough to score crucial TDs based on how game scripts develop. The reason people are having a hard time understanding this is Ware and Maclin are not involved in the scoring. I know, I own Ware and I am one of these people.
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I"m talking about the possession at the end of where it went from ware to west to davis three downs in a row.
simey
Footballguy
The offense only scored two touchdowns. KC D got a safety, and STs scored on a return, and made two FGs in OT.
Hu-Tang Clan
Footballguy
I think Reid misses JC.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Will play him against oakland. Thats it.....still expecting 65 rushing yards and two catches
ATB
Footballguy
I've watched a few of their games recently, and it seems like the passing game is garbage all game but then piles up the mostly uncontested yards defenses typically give up in the 2-minute drill. Taking their last 3 games, here are Smith's stats divided into "two-minute" drills at the ends of regulation and his stats in the rest of those games:
Two-minute drills: 26-33-189-2-0
Non-minute drills: 49-80-470-0-2
Y/A stays about the same, but completion % goes up, fewer negative plays, drives extend rather than end on 3rd time. It makes me wonder if they should go spread more often, but play Ware in West's role. West is basically replacement-level. He catches dumpoff passes and runs til a defender hits him, but Ware breaks tackles. Ware's yards-per-target is 12.4, West's is 4.5.
And Reid is a solid and conservative coach willing to wait until the other coach does something stupid like try a 60+ yard FG instead of taking the tie.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
coachbobbyfinstock
Footballguy
LawFitz
Footballguy
The Ware/West RBBC dynamic has been in play all along, dating back to last year after both fully emerged. Go back and look at the game logs. Reid has been committed to RBBC between these two the whole time, barring injuries. Ware/West likely to be continued, no matter how much better Ware is (or might be). Blame Reid all you want, but deal with it as reality not hypothetical at this point.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Its all about frustration. Ware set the bar too high for himself last season (scoring every 11 or 12 touches). As far as his draft position goes... he probably would have been a first rounder in redrafts if we knew Jamaal Charles would be out all season.
Most of the frustration is aimed at Reid though. The KC offense never seems to look more than 5 yds down the field unless it is out of desperation (like last night). Even on 3rd and long they seem happy to throw a 3 yd out pattern and punt it away.
Tough for RBs to operate when the entire defense is at the line of scrimmage. The Chiefs have to try and push the ball downfield. Otherwise they are looking at another "excellent season" followed by a playoff loss.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
1
2
3
4
Bye
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
West
48%
41%
22%
0%
0%
27%
57%
78%
31%
19%
38%
Ware
48%
56%
71%
72%
62%
69%
35%
0%
64%
77%
48%
1
2
3
4
Bye
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
West
9
8
6
0
0
7
17
17
5
3
4
Ware
19
13
21
18
26
19
10
0
16
19
19
The way to explain West's snap percentages
He injured his ankle week 3, missed week 4, lost his snaps to Charles week 6, took over for a concussed Ware early week 8, fully took over in week 9 and left with a concussion week 11. The snap dynamic may not be what we assumed (Ware receiving 65-70%) with a healthy West. Simply, the sample size was too small (this year) and the situation was too volatile (JC sprinkled in) for us to get a truly accurate read on the situation. Still, obviously, Ware will always out touch West by a fair margin.
It's not so much the volume Ware is receiving that's the problem as much as it is how he's receiving it. What is the point of running this dude up the gut 17 times a game when he's proven to be dangerous in space. Throw him more screens, exploit mismatches vs. linebackers in the passing game, incorporate toss plays again and etc. etc. I have no ####### clue what Reid is doing and I think I'm done trying to figure it out. The last straw was seeing Knile ####### Davis get 3 carries and 11% of the snaps. Knile ####### Davis.
Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
This, the lack of creativity with using Ware is awful. When they actually do get creative with him, he seems to make big plays.
SameSongNDance
Footballguy
Get the #### out of this thread.
Nah, I'm just joking Hills cool. But seriously, gtfo.
packer_junkie
Footballguy
Its 100% right-- West played 13 snaps in a row on game winning drive at one point.
Milkman
Footballguy
Yeah it's hurting Ware's receiving numbers. They aren't giving the ball to West when he's in there but still that doesn't help Ware. Ware is clearly the KC RB of choice but for some reason Reid doesn't view him as the teams best 3rd down back..........Not sure why Reid views West as an upgrade in those situations over Ware but he does.
Dizzy
Footballguy
May have played a role. Ware's sweep carry in OT that went for about 7 yds... he got bumped to the ground and as soon as he got up he stayed on the sidelines and started walking towards the bench. Not sure if he was gassed, hurting, whatever... looked like he knew it was 1 carry and out.
Tau837
Footballguy
FWIW, here are their PFF grades for this season.Milkman said:
Ware:
Run - 65.0 on 153 snaps
Rec - 83.6 on 198 snaps
Pass Block - 65.6 on 26 snaps
Overall - 71.2
West:
Run - 63.0 on 51 snaps
Rec - 70.0 on 159 snaps
Pass Block - 75.5 on 23 snaps
Overall - 63.3
This shows that Ware has been a better runner and a better receiver -- no surprise to most posting in this thread. However, what might be surprising is that PFF sees Ware with a very small advantage as a runner, and, while Ware has a more sizable advantage as a receiver, West still has a good grade there. West also has a healthy advantage in pass blocking, though neither of them have been used for many pass blocking snaps.
I assume Reid wants to find a role for West, who he probably sees as a talented player who can make a positive contribution. Given that West is a good receiver and pass blocker, he seems to have settled on giving him a healthy role on third downs and in two minute situations. Not saying I agree with him, but I can see a possible thought process there.
Dizzy
Footballguy
Not sure what happened over the course of the year, but in 2015 West had some great games, including a monster (his best game) in Denver. Last year he seemed like the better fit replacing JC, although there's no denying Ware's production (in 2015).
Judge Smails
Footballguy
Power Monster
The Midnight Stalker
On the bench in a must win game in one league and starting in another. It helps that I have Howard who is in a better situation at home w SF otherwise I would take my chances on Ware getting his usual average number in lieu of West and Hill. He will probably go off now to confirm my stance that FF drives one crazy.
Bucsfan5493
Footballguy
Not sure how I feel about Ware this week due to them being in Atlanta, where Ryan is really good and can put up a lot of points. As another guy said above, wouldn't be surprised if it's a West week due to the Chiefs being down and Reid's weird obsession with using West as a passing down back.
I'm liking Ware's schedule for the playoffs though. 3 home games against mediocre/bad run defenses.
I'm liking Ware's schedule for the playoffs though. 3 home games against mediocre/bad run defenses.
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