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Star Wars The Last Jedi Episode 8 thread: this thread sucks, you should avoid it even after you've seen the movie (1 Viewer)

Walking Boot said:
Why Star Wars nerds are rooting for Solo to bomb.

Smack Tripper is just one of the many, many people who have already made up their minds that they want this to suck and are going to shout loudly about it until they either make it happen, or at least convince everyone it does despite the numbers.
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Please point to where I’ve made up my mind.  I didn’t even mind the trailer, unless you want to hang my hat on a single critique of lando’s design. 

I do think last Jedi was a pretty significant creative failure and certainly underperformed. I’m not alone.  That is a closed issue. 

Where things become more disconcerting are when you see, after one misfire, these reports. Maybe they’re wrong,  maybe they’re off. I don’t hear a lot of denials internally.  Rumors. 

Let’s start simply with what we know, how many films can you recall that changed directors in the middle of filming and ended up working out?  I can think of one, and it’s pretty good, the wizard of oz. But I’d realistically caution this was another era of filmmaking dominated by the studio/producer.  It’s highly disconcerting that a change was needed and fair game to question those who did the hiring are tasked with doing the fixing. 

To tie this into karma police’s post, and I’m not a fan of the EU or comics either but with regard to comic fans giving license to maybe elastic interpretations of those characters. 

However, to make a perhaps apt comparison. Luke and Han are flagship characters the way Batman, Superman or spider man are. If those comic characters are bungled, the fans take it personally because they KNOW those characters.  Just as they KNOW luke ( who was radically reinterpreted) and they know han (who’s beloved and very tied to harrison ford).  They spent their goodwill in last Jedi. Skepticism is earned until proven otherwise  

stan lee can change Spider-Man... George Lucas can change Luke, but outsiders do so with the weight of history and they better get it right.

You have a UNIVERSE.  Do anything thing you want in that and with that.  It shows a lack of inspiration to constantly go back to a shallow well

 
Smack Tripper said:
Please point to where I’ve made up my mind.  I didn’t even mind the trailer, unless you want to hang my hat on a single critique of lando’s design. 

I do think last Jedi was a pretty significant creative failure and certainly underperformed. I’m not alone.  That is a closed issue. 

Where things become more disconcerting are when you see, after one misfire, these reports. Maybe they’re wrong,  maybe they’re off. I don’t hear a lot of denials internally.  Rumors. 

Let’s start simply with what we know, how many films can you recall that changed directors in the middle of filming and ended up working out?  I can think of one, and it’s pretty good, the wizard of oz. But I’d realistically caution this was another era of filmmaking dominated by the studio/producer.  It’s highly disconcerting that a change was needed and fair game to question those who did the hiring are tasked with doing the fixing. 

To tie this into karma police’s post, and I’m not a fan of the EU or comics either but with regard to comic fans giving license to maybe elastic interpretations of those characters. 

However, to make a perhaps apt comparison. Luke and Han are flagship characters the way Batman, Superman or spider man are. If those comic characters are bungled, the fans take it personally because they KNOW those characters.  Just as they KNOW luke ( who was radically reinterpreted) and they know han (who’s beloved and very tied to harrison ford).  They spent their goodwill in last Jedi. Skepticism is earned until proven otherwise  

stan lee can change Spider-Man... George Lucas can change Luke, but outsiders do so with the weight of history and they better get it right.

You have a UNIVERSE.  Do anything thing you want in that and with that.  It shows a lack of inspiration to constantly go back to a shallow well
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I love that in the very same post you say they shouldn't change anything (Luke) and then say they lack inspiration by going to the same thing. 

Literally amazing. 

 
They changed Luke?

What were you like 35 years ago?  Or, if you're not 35 years old yet, what were you like when you were 21?

 
For me, it's simple, Star Wars is Vader.  He made the trilogy, enhanced Rogue 1 tremendously, and everything without him has been average at best. 

He was a great villain, and he made the heroes better.  He is the franchise.  And wussy Anakin doesn't count. 

 
Smack Tripper said:
So I’ll overthink this and you enjoy transformers
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Pretty sure there are more options than that.

Seriously brother, take a deep breath. Luke was perfectly plausible, Last Jedi was fun and the universe isn't going to end if Rian Johnson directs the next part of this trilogy.

 
Premier said:
I love that in the very same post you say they shouldn't change anything (Luke) and then say they lack inspiration by going to the same thing. 

Literally amazing. 
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Your defense of this movie is truly curious to me.   I do enjoy your projecting about Me being “obtuse” when I’ve supported when articulated my issues with this film and specifically the handling of Luke.  All you have are “fanboy” comments like that’s been some stupid attack when you probably have the most posts in this thread and a “take it or leave it” attitude to anyone who dares call out this turd.  I’m suppprting my opinion, it doesn’t make it right or wrong but you’re merely proclaiming yours.

Since you apparently require special attention, the issue with Luke is not in the idea of changing him but the excution or lack thereof.  You don’t change a character as established and built up across four films as Luke without showing your work.  You have to earn that arc, not have it come out in expository clumps out of Johnson’s mind.  The choices made no sense and they were done in dialogue and not action.  There is an adage in film, show, don’t tell.   None of this happened with Luke.   

But I really wish I was as easy to please a viewer as you are.  It must make life much easier. 

 
Chaka said:
Pretty sure there are more options than that.

Seriously brother, take a deep breath. Luke was perfectly plausible, Last Jedi was fun and the universe isn't going to end if Rian Johnson directs the next part of this trilogy.
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:lmao:  why are you in a Star Wars discussion thread then?  If you enjoyed it, good for you I’m happy you did. Your enjoyment doesn’t not change my experience with the film any more than my issues with it should alter yours.  There are more pressing things in this world, of course. Maybe go solve those problems elsewhere 

 
Oh...so your problem is with not having a Star Wars: Luke Grows Cynical trilogy before The Last Jedi.

Got it.

Maybe you should write that trilogy.

 
Smack Tripper said:
:lmao:  why are you in a Star Wars discussion thread then?  If you enjoyed it, good for you I’m happy you did. Your enjoyment doesn’t not change my experience with the film any more than my issues with it should alter yours.  There are more pressing things in this world, of course. Maybe go solve those problems elsewhere 
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Never leave before the job is done.

 
Walking Boot said:
Why Star Wars nerds are rooting for Solo to bomb.

Smack Tripper is just one of the many, many people who have already made up their minds that they want this to suck and are going to shout loudly about it until they either make it happen, or at least convince everyone it does despite the numbers.
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To me, this is the money quote:

So is there any possible scenario in which Solo will indeed flop? Not likely according to Paul Dergarabedian, senior media analyst at comScore Inc. “In a way, Star Wars films are flop-proof,” he says. “Even if you hear it may not be the best of them, how can you be a fan and not go? If you want to talk about it, you have to go see it.”
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None of these uber nerds are going to take the chance that they're left out of the conversation about this. When push comes to shove, they're going and will buy all the popcorn that their allowance from their moms will let them buy.

 
Chaka said:
They changed Luke?

What were you like 35 years ago?  Or, if you're not 35 years old yet, what were you like when you were 21?
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Luke, who had hope that he could change a man thought made of pure evil, and who did in fact change him, would not have contemplated killing his nephew in his sleep because”snoke got to him.”  MAYBE if we had some reason to think Snoke was evil incarnate and more powerful than the Emperor we could see into Luke’s mind a bit, but we didnt get that. Or anything else about Snoke. 

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Luke, who had hope that he could change a man thought made of pure evil, and who did in fact change him, would not have contemplated killing his nephew in his sleep because”snoke got to him.”  MAYBE if we had some reason to think Snoke was evil incarnate and more powerful than the Emperor we could see into Luke’s mind a bit, but we didnt get that. Or anything else about Snoke. 
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Luke had no reason to feel like he created Vader. He had a lot of reason to feel like he created Kylo Ren. That's not Luke changing. That's Luke being in two completely different situations. 

 
And here I thought Jedi were exclusively binary with no gray area between saving the universe and slaughtering 30 seven year olds.

 
Smack Tripper said:
Where things become more disconcerting are when you see, after one misfire, these reports. Maybe they’re wrong,  maybe they’re off. I don’t hear a lot of denials internally.  Rumors. 
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Let's see. If I were Disney and now own one of the most successful, if not the most successful movie franchises in the history of cinema, and there was exactly one article that made a bunch of outlandish claims based on a single unnamed source and presumes a bunch of stuff because the director was changed mid filming, should I A) hold a presser and deny these claims (which will probably do more to legitimize the rumors than dispel them) or B) Keep on keepin' on and count my Benjamins? 

Aren't you the guy that actually said the reason they hadn't released a trailer was because they didn't want the world to see the trailer or the movie or something and then they released the trailer during the Superbowl  :lmao:

 
TheFanatic said:
Let's see. If I were Disney and now own one of the most successful, if not the most successful movie franchises in the history of cinema, and there was exactly one article that made a bunch of outlandish claims based on a single unnamed source and presumes a bunch of stuff because the director was changed mid filming, should I A) hold a presser and deny these claims (which will probably do more to legitimize the rumors than dispel them) or B) Keep on keepin' on and count my Benjamins? 

Aren't you the guy that actually said the reason they hadn't released a trailer was because they didn't want the world to see the trailer or the movie or something and then they released the trailer during the Superbowl  :lmao:
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I think there is the unique scenario that we are in uncharted water with some of the stuff reported here.  And listen, in full disclosure, Titantic had bad press at this juncture, Spiderman (the Raimi version) had bad press and turned out to work creatively as well as be phenomenal successes.  So maybe this film will be the same.  But you can assume there would be a backchannel denial circulated if we had to give the lead acting lessons when we were down to the last two weeks on the production.  Thats one toxic rumor to leave saddled on your lead.

As for the trailer stuff, all I can tell you is everything they're doing is unprecedented.  They're very late in the game to start their marketing.  Maybe this will be a paradigm shift in how that is rolled out.  

 
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Smack Tripper said:
I think there is the unique scenario that we are in uncharted water with some of the stuff reported here.  And listen, in full disclosure, Titantic had bad press at this juncture, Spiderman (the Raimi version) had bad press and turned out to work creatively as well as be phenomenal successes.  So maybe this film will be the same.  But you can assume there would be a backchannel denial circulated if we had to give the lead acting lessons when we were down to the last two weeks on the production.  Thats one toxic rumor to leave saddled on your lead.

As for the trailer stuff, all I can tell you is everything they're doing is unprecedented.  They're very late in the game to start their marketing.  Maybe this will be a paradigm shift in how that is rolled out.  
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You keep saying this deal about acting lessons for the lead 2 like it's gospel. I'm gonna need to see someone else pick up on this and some verified sources. Maybe I just missed that part, but if there isn't much else out there, I'm going to go with the more plausible notion that this guy didn't just get lucky in his try out read and pulled his best performance ever and then regressed to his mean as a bad actor after that. On the occam's razor side of this in that, it's waaaaayyyy more likely that some "journalist" made up a source and a story for click bait. Do you think it only happens with the political journalists (or any journalist that goes anywhere near politics)?

As far as late to the party for marketing, maybe they realized, they don't really need to market it. I was in Sam's yesterday and while I was picking up a bundle of bananas, my 4 year old says, "That's an AT-AT." I look down, and the bananas have stickers on them. There were four different stickers. The AT-AT, an Xwing, a Tie Fighter and the Falcon. Disney didn't pay to put those stickers on the bananas. The banana company paid disney to put those stickers there. In the past I've seen the same thing on oranges and bottles of water. And what the heck does a Nissan have to do with space battles? Why do they need to spend to market when other companies are paying them to market it? It's going to make over a billion dollars guaranteed because even Star Wars Scrooges like you are going to see it in the theater just so you can bash it here. If you don't see it, you can't participate in the debate. 

 
It's not quite what he said, but I think what ST is getting at is that we are going on 11 movies now with the same story line and main core of characters.   You keep dipping the toe into characters as iconic as Luke and Han and people are going to grumble if you mess it up in their eyes (and the more times you dip into that pool, the more likely that is going to happen).  I honestly expected Luke, Leia, and Han to get offed in EP7 and go with some new characters and storylines, but that didn't happen.  

I haven't read any of the EU, so maybe that's all it is, but I would be shocked if there aren't good stories and ideas that don't involve a Skywalker.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
It's not quite what he said, but I think what ST is getting at is that we are going on 11 movies now with the same story line and main core of characters.   You keep dipping the toe into characters as iconic as Luke and Han and people are going to grumble if you mess it up in their eyes (and the more times you dip into that pool, the more likely that is going to happen).  I honestly expected Luke, Leia, and Han to get offed in EP7 and go with some new characters and storylines, but that didn't happen.  

I haven't read any of the EU, so maybe that's all it is, but I would be shocked if there aren't good stories and ideas that don't involve a Skywalker.  
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Bet I can guess who dies in the next film.

 
The Luke story line was maybe the most interesting in Last Jedi.  Loved seeing a Jedi portrayed as having a crisis of faith/conscience without falling into a default "Slaughter the seven year olds!" pure evil mode.

The weaker story line, for me (maybe "story line" isn't the right term) is the whole "I haven't felt The Force this strong since..." thing.  Vader was all "The Force is strong with this one." then the Emperor was all "I haven't felt The Force this strong since Vader." Then Quai Gong was all "Oh wowwws look ats all the metichloriXPLODES!@!21". Then we get two "Wows, Ben, haven't felt Forces this strong since Vader like 20 minutes ago but your Forces are even strongers Rey!!!"

Wash, rinse, repeat.

 
KarmaPolice said:
The directors are probably getting canned because of creative differences over how many broads should be in these movies.  
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I’ll say this, and I won’t pass judgement until we see it, but seeing the trailer has me slightly concerned. This is young han, Young lando. It should be James Bond not an episode of friends. Let them be the Cooze hounds they are and have them bang some space broads.   Don’t have some brassy broad putting han in his place.   The worst thing they’ll do is try to make this into guardians of the galaxy because that was done to perfection. 

Sorry I know you guys love the bbw vietmanese chick, post menopausal pink hair Laura Dern and the looker with the big nose calling the plays 

 
KarmaPolice said:
It's not quite what he said, but I think what ST is getting at is that we are going on 11 movies now with the same story line and main core of characters.   You keep dipping the toe into characters as iconic as Luke and Han and people are going to grumble if you mess it up in their eyes (and the more times you dip into that pool, the more likely that is going to happen).  I honestly expected Luke, Leia, and Han to get offed in EP7 and go with some new characters and storylines, but that didn't happen.  

I haven't read any of the EU, so maybe that's all it is, but I would be shocked if there aren't good stories and ideas that don't involve a Skywalker.  
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Well, there is and there isn't. When They announced that Episodes 1, 2 and 3 were going to be made, I decided to read some of the books. And at the same time, I was traveling 33-50% of the month for work so I spent a ton of time in airports and did a lot of reading. Like 3-4 novels a month. So I read a boatload of the EU. At the time the prequels came out, there really wasn't much that didn't involve Skywalker or Solo or both. It wasn't until they started introducing the history of the Sith in the prequels did we see anything outside of Skywalker and Solo. Sure, later on, it extended to Ben Skywalker (Luke and Mara Jade Skywalker's son) and Jacen and Jaina Solo (Leia and Han's twins - boy and girl) and their other younger son Anakin Solo, but it was pretty much all Skywalker and Solo. All I can think of are I, Jedi was about Coran Horn, but this was a book about a story already told but from Horn's perspective. There was also the Rogue Squadron series, but other than those, it was all Skywalker and Solo.

 
Smack Tripper said:
I’ll say this, and I won’t pass judgement until we see it, but seeing the trailer has me slightly concerned. This is young han, Young lando. It should be James Bond not an episode of friends. Let them be the Cooze hounds they are and have them bang some space broads.   Don’t have some brassy broad putting han in his place.   The worst thing they’ll do is try to make this into guardians of the galaxy because that was done to perfection. 

Sorry I know you guys love the bbw vietmanese chick, post menopausal pink hair Laura Dern and the looker with the big nose calling the plays 
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I think we should start a new thread on all the different things Smack Tripper thinks the Solo movie shouldn't be. 

 
TheFanatic said:
Well, there is and there isn't. When They announced that Episodes 1, 2 and 3 were going to be made, I decided to read some of the books. And at the same time, I was traveling 33-50% of the month for work so I spent a ton of time in airports and did a lot of reading. Like 3-4 novels a month. So I read a boatload of the EU. At the time the prequels came out, there really wasn't much that didn't involve Skywalker or Solo or both. It wasn't until they started introducing the history of the Sith in the prequels did we see anything outside of Skywalker and Solo. Sure, later on, it extended to Ben Skywalker (Luke and Mara Jade Skywalker's son) and Jacen and Jaina Solo (Leia and Han's twins - boy and girl) and their other younger son Anakin Solo, but it was pretty much all Skywalker and Solo. All I can think of are I, Jedi was about Coran Horn, but this was a book about a story already told but from Horn's perspective. There was also the Rogue Squadron series, but other than those, it was all Skywalker and Solo.
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That is pretty disappointing.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
That is pretty disappointing.  
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There were lots of side characters they should've done more with besides just Coran Horn and the rest of the members of Rogue Squadron. Horn was a Rogue as well. For instance, later on, Luke re-established the Jedi order and there were dozens of knights and a handful of masters. They would do a few chapters from one their perspectives in the books, but it would still be the Skywalker/Solo clans with a little Lando here and there. I believe Lando had his own book or two, but that's about it. 

The books were fun. A lot of it was Luke piecing the Jedi back together. Finding force sensitive people, training them, accumulating jedi relics and teaching aids. In between that, there was always some sort of Imperial issue to deal with as the remnants of the imperial army consolidated power in a couple systems and defended it. And of course there were the clones of the emperor and such. 

 
Smack Tripper said:
How was this allowed to happen?

https://www.express.co.uk/entertainment/films/925958/Star-Wars-8-Rian-Johnson-JJ-Abrams-Last-Jedi-outline-plot-script-Daisy-Ridley

Its not like you had Nolan or Tarantino reimagining your baby, they let this guy mess up the franchise?

Episode IX, Retcon of the Jedi
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She said "Here’s what I think I know. JJ (Abrams) wrote Episode VII, as well as drafts for VIII and IX.

"Then Rian Johnson arrived and wrote The Last Jedi entirely. I believe there was some sort of general consensus on the main lines of the trilogy, but apart from that, every director writes and realises his film in his own way.

"Rian Johnson and JJ Abrams met to discuss all of this, although Episode VIII is still his very own work. I believe Rian didn’t keep anything from the first draft of Episode VIII."
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So, Daisy Ridley has an opinion on it? Well, there's all the proof we need! :rolleyes:  

If they'd have followed your advise to have fewer broads in Star Wars, this controversy could've been avoided.

 
It is so obvious that the movies were not connected. TFA builds up to the moment Rey gives the lightsaber to Luke. It was emotional. Then the next movie totally discarded that. Set the tone and ruined the trilogy potentially. 

 
Tom Servo said:
So, Daisy Ridley has an opinion on it? Well, there's all the proof we need! :rolleyes:  

If they'd have followed your advise to have fewer broads in Star Wars, this controversy could've been avoided.
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You’re right, the star of the movie probably has no perspective on this. 

Some slow day I’ll go back through this thread and have a laugh at the delusions you guys had defending this dreck

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
It is so obvious that the movies were not connected. TFA builds up to the moment Rey gives the lightsaber to Luke. It was emotional. Then the next movie totally discarded that. Set the tone and ruined the trilogy potentially. 
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Imagine if the opening scene of ROtJ was everyone turning around from an approach on Tatooine, deciding not to save Han, after making plans to all meet up to save him at the end of ESB.  That's kinda how the light saber toss felt to me.

 
Smack Tripper said:
You’re right, the star of the movie probably has no perspective on this. 

Some slow day I’ll go back through this thread and have a laugh at the delusions you guys had defending this dreck
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Says the guy who truly believed that the studio did not want anyone to see the trailer to Solo and then they released it during the Super Bowl. Me thinks a stroll down memory lane here is not going to be all that funny to you. You still looking for a second article showing that the main actor can't act. Maybe with an actual named source?

 
TheFanatic said:
Says the guy who truly believed that the studio did not want anyone to see the trailer to Solo and then they released it during the Super Bowl. Me thinks a stroll down memory lane here is not going to be all that funny to you. You still looking for a second article showing that the main actor can't act. Maybe with an actual named source?
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Who would you like to go on record within the film saying that the lead needed an acting coach?  If the Hollywood Reporter isn't a good enough source, I don't know what to tell you.  Its a report, and I think I acknowledged as such.  I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me where changing directors mid stream is a positive for a production.

 
Smack Tripper said:
Who would you like to go on record within the film saying that the lead needed an acting coach?  If the Hollywood Reporter isn't a good enough source, I don't know what to tell you.  Its a report, and I think I acknowledged as such.  I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me where changing directors mid stream is a positive for a production.
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If there was any actual meat on that bone about the need for an acting coach, wouldn't you think another reporter or outlet would've picked up on it? But after months, it still comes back to the one story and an unnamed source. It comes back to this.

Either:

1) Disney gave the lead roll in a massive franchise to someone who can't act, risking potentially billions of dollars if there is no parts 2 and 3 because of the substandard acting

or

2) Someone is looking for click bait

Which do you think is more likely? Keep in mind, no other outlet has decided to chase that same click bait. You're looking for a fire, but there just isn't any smoke. 

 
Capella said:
“I’m going to go through this thread and laugh at all your posts”
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:lmao: come on guys, you have to seriously take your phantom menance glasses off now, its ok to come out into the light, admit this was the suck.  It sucked and you all know better but I understand getting excited in the theater, hey theres luke, ok he's doing nothing but LIGHT SABERS!  It was a disaster.  

 
Smack Tripper said:
Who would you like to go on record within the film saying that the lead needed an acting coach?  If the Hollywood Reporter isn't a good enough source, I don't know what to tell you.  Its a report, and I think I acknowledged as such.  I'm still waiting for someone to prove to me where changing directors mid stream is a positive for a production.
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The Hollywood reporter didn’t report that. The unnamed source you are referring to is from some scheister website like screentool.com or something. 

You are phenomenally and hilariously bad at this. 

 
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