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Star Wars The Last Jedi Episode 8 thread: this thread sucks, you should avoid it even after you've seen the movie (1 Viewer)

I enjoyed it...better than Force Awakens.

Kinda dislike the way movies will resolve things from time to time because of manufactured tension.  Cases in point, if all you had to do was turn the ship around and kamikaze it into the destroyers...couldn't you have done that an hour ago? Or plowed the support ships into it at light speed?  Just seems ridiculous that it's that easy to destroy those ships. 

But worst of all is when they're stuck in the bunker and Luke goes out to face down Kylo.

They have to figure out it's a diversion for them to get away.  You mean Luke can have that conversation with Leia but can't just tell her, Hey... I'm gonna go out her and keep him busy, y'all follow the star foxes out the back.  Nope, just walk out and how they figure it out. 

 
tdoss said:
I enjoyed it...better than Force Awakens.

Kinda dislike the way movies will resolve things from time to time because of manufactured tension.  Cases in point, if all you had to do was turn the ship around and kamikaze it into the destroyers...couldn't you have done that an hour ago? Or plowed the support ships into it at light speed?  Just seems ridiculous that it's that easy to destroy those ships. 

But worst of all is when they're stuck in the bunker and Luke goes out to face down Kylo.

They have to figure out it's a diversion for them to get away.  You mean Luke can have that conversation with Leia but can't just tell her, Hey... I'm gonna go out her and keep him busy, y'all follow the star foxes out the back.  Nope, just walk out and how they figure it out. 
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Them having a 10 minute conversation about the future of the resistance for the 10 people not dead while Luke does his boss thing was ridiculous.

 
jon_mx said:
There is a continuing theme of 'forget the past' which is what the movie does.  It ignores the whole bloodline/family angle and makes it so any random can be strong in the force.  Maybe a good angle for the PC-inclusive agenda, but not what Star Wars was.  It blurs the lines between good and evil, which was always crystal clear in previous episodes, and goes off on a wild tangent which ends up trying to blame the arms dealers as the real evil in the universe.   It breaks Skywalker light saber in half (which at one point Luke strangely referred to it as a light sword).   All the need to be trained in the use of the force has been thrown out the window.  Rey became a master basically after a 1 minute lesson from Luke teaching her how to reach out.  I am not a star wars geek, and there probably are a lot more things which this movie mocked. 
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I think you're taking this too way over the top.  The arms dealer part was just a temporary thing they threw in there to parallel a few minutes of questioning good vs evil at the same time we were supposed to be questioning whether Rey and Ren were each good or evil.  They reset everything to a clear light vs. dark right after that.  Rey and the rebellion are white cloaked all-goods, and Ren and the First Order are the evil black wearing red lightsaber bad guys.  God forbid they try and add a few minutes of drama to a 2 and a half hour movie.

Same deal with the whole lineage thing.  Darth Vader didn't come from a family lineage.  Yoda, Palpatine, Obi-wan, Mace WIndu, Snoke.  None of these have any indication of coming from any kind of family lineage.  It's really just Luke and Ren.

It wasn't meant to be a slap in the face.  It was the closest thing to something interesting they could make out of it.  "I am your father" will never be repeated in the age of the internet where everyone is looking for it.  What important lineage could Rey have come from that would been interesting.  "OMG she's Luke's daughter!".  Or "She's Kylo's twin sister!!".  Been there, done that, neither would have been satisfying to any of us because that's what they were expecting.  We were all looking for it, this was the closest thing to an Empire level twist they could have done.

Everyone was expecting the same old same old.  Some family tie to the person she's fighting, a sith lord reigning over her and trying to turn her up until the climax of the series.  The sudden death of Snoke and unimportant lineage were a good, unexpected way to change things up especially given that the biggest criticism of the new trilogy so far has been that they were just rehashing the old one.  I'm sorry if that's what you wanted, but if you just want the original trilogy repeated again just go watch that.  I'm glad they're doing something different (finally).

Either way, some rant about them making her parents nobodies to be "PC-inclusive" or how the film is just an attack on capitalism because of one line that the film ended up rebuking itself is just silly.

 
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Hawkeye21 said:
That was awesome and makes me like the movie even more.  It is funny how many people were critical of The Force Awakens because it was just a remake of A New Hope and they wanted something new.  Now we have something new and trying to "kill the past" but the same people are complaining about how it wasn't the same.  I don't think these people would ever be 100% satisfied with a new Star Wars movie.
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Why do you think they are the same people?  I hated how TFA was just a remake of ANH and I really liked how TLJ (which otherwise shaping up to be a pretty bad movie) pivoted and did something different.

Several of the people in here who said they didn't like TLJ at all referenced how much they loved TFA.

I don't think it's the same people.  I think it's the opposite.  Seems like most liked either The Force Awakens OR The Last Jedi, for exactly the reason you're describing.

 
Smack Tripper said:
I don't see the Jedi as being remotely arrogant.  What are you basing this on?

I can see an argument of them being naïve believing too thoroughly in good (not seeing Anakin could turn, although they did) or being too detached (positioned as impartial outsiders who only seek to achieve balance in Episode 1 and 2) rather than being proactive. 
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I'm like 4 pages back so apologies if this was mentioned. 

Obi-wan: "His abilities have made him, well, arrogant."

Yoda- "Yes. Yes. A flaw more and more common among Jedi. Hmmm. Too sure of themselves they are. Even the older, more experienced ones."
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YODA: I hear a new apprentice, you have. Emperor, or should I call you Darth Sidious. 
DARTH SlDIOUS: Master Yoda, you survived. 
YODA: Surprised? 
DARTH SlDIOUS: Your arrogance blinds you, Master Yoda. Now you will experience the full power of the dark side.
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It was pretty much a major theme of the prequels, where both Yoda and the Sith were pointing it out.

 
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this is like reading a thread with about 100 simpson comic book guys posting in it wow take that to the it was a fun good movie bank bromigos 

 
GregR said:
I'm like 4 pages back so apologies if this was mentioned. 

It was pretty much a major theme of the prequels, where both Yoda and the Sith were pointing it out.
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Yeah this I recall. I’m just trying to piece together the Jedi collective being arrogant. 

And it’s been mentioned since, Luke does call them arrogant but I think Luke’s credibility was stripped and neutered so is that a credible thing he’s saying or more of an example of him being flawed and wrong as he’s been so often (Yoda still straightening him out)

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Why do you think they are the same people?  I hated how TFA was just a remake of ANH and I really liked how TLJ (which otherwise shaping up to be a pretty bad movie) pivoted and did something different.

Several of the people in here who said they didn't like TLJ at all referenced how much they loved TFA.

I don't think it's the same people.  I think it's the opposite.  Seems like most liked either The Force Awakens OR The Last Jedi, for exactly the reason you're describing.
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That could be.  Just lots of complaining for minor reasons in my opinion.  I really enjoyed TFA and though it was a fun movie.  I didn't even pay any attention to the similarities until I read the complaints online.  I guess it's just easier for me to enjoy a movie for what it is instead of constantly critiquing every part of it.  I enjoyed TLJ just as much.

 
tdoss said:
I enjoyed it...better than Force Awakens.

Kinda dislike the way movies will resolve things from time to time because of manufactured tension.  Cases in point, if all you had to do was turn the ship around and kamikaze it into the destroyers...couldn't you have done that an hour ago? Or plowed the support ships into it at light speed?  Just seems ridiculous that it's that easy to destroy those ships. 

But worst of all is when they're stuck in the bunker and Luke goes out to face down Kylo.

They have to figure out it's a diversion for them to get away.  You mean Luke can have that conversation with Leia but can't just tell her, Hey... I'm gonna go out her and keep him busy, y'all follow the star foxes out the back.  Nope, just walk out and how they figure it out. 
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I wondered the same thing with the kamikaze part but maybe they just didn't think of it until then.  Would you have thought of it?  I know I didn't think of it until I saw her turning it around and that's why it was so awesome.  If they made everything as easy as it could be after we know what happens then it would be a 20 minute movie.  It's easy for use to say all this after we've seen it and know what happens.

The Kylo/Luke fight scene was seemed pretty obvious that they were showing how blinded Kylo was by his desire to kill Luke.  It's one of a number of instances where we see how raw, immature, unfocused and dangerous for everyone Kylo is.  Its part of his character development.

I agree it would have made more sense for him to tell Leia what his plan was instead of them just figuring it out on their own.

 
Smack Tripper said:
Yeah this I recall. I’m just trying to piece together the Jedi collective being arrogant. 

And it’s been mentioned since, Luke does call them arrogant but I think Luke’s credibility was stripped and neutered so is that a credible thing he’s saying or more of an example of him being flawed and wrong as he’s been so often (Yoda still straightening him out)
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I think the individuals of any organization tasked with upholding the law becomes arrogant.  Especially when they don't accept moral relativism and see themselves purely as agents of "good'

 
cockroach said:
I think the individuals of any organization tasked with upholding the law becomes arrogant.  Especially when they don't accept moral relativism and see themselves purely as agents of "good'
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You know that’s interesting. I wish we had SEEN that instead of trying to assume it after the fact. That concept alone might have really helped save the prequels 

 
I'm curious how the original trilogy would have been reviewed if they were first seen in this age and I'm curious how the public opinion will change on The Last Jedi 15 years from now.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
I wondered the same thing with the kamikaze part but maybe they just didn't think of it until then.  Would you have thought of it?  I know I didn't think of it until I saw her turning it around and that's why it was so awesome.  If they made everything as easy as it could be after we know what happens then it would be a 20 minute movie.  It's easy for use to say all this after we've seen it and know what happens.
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I didn't but I would have to imagine that if I were actively living in this universe and were a commander in a resistance army tasked with defeating an opposing army that has massive unbeatable ships that it would have been something that had come up in a few strategy meetings, to say the least.

It also opens up a pretty big can of worms.  Could the rebels in the OT just have sacrificed one ship to take out Vader's Super Star Destroyer, or even the Death Star?

Regardless, from a movie viewer point of view it was both surprising and insanely cool.  One of the best scenes of the whole franchise (not just this movie), so I am more than OK with it.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
I didn't but I would have to imagine that if I were actively living in this universe and were a commander in a resistance army tasked with defeating an opposing army that has massive unbeatable ships that it would have been something that had come up in a few strategy meetings, to say the least.

It also opens up a pretty big can of worms.  Could the rebels in the OT just have sacrificed one ship to take out Vader's Super Star Destroyer, or even the Death Star?

Regardless, from a movie viewer point of view it was both surprising and insanely cool.  One of the best scenes of the whole franchise (not just this movie), so I am more than OK with it.
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Completely agree.  What I loved was how it just went silent and I could hear the reaction from everyone.  It was so amazing.

 
Hawkeye21 said:
tdoss said:
I enjoyed it...better than Force Awakens.

Kinda dislike the way movies will resolve things from time to time because of manufactured tension.  Cases in point, if all you had to do was turn the ship around and kamikaze it into the destroyers...couldn't you have done that an hour ago? Or plowed the support ships into it at light speed?  Just seems ridiculous that it's that easy to destroy those ships. 

But worst of all is when they're stuck in the bunker and Luke goes out to face down Kylo.

They have to figure out it's a diversion for them to get away.  You mean Luke can have that conversation with Leia but can't just tell her, Hey... I'm gonna go out her and keep him busy, y'all follow the star foxes out the back.  Nope, just walk out and how they figure it out. 
Click to expand...
I wondered the same thing with the kamikaze part but maybe they just didn't think of it until then.  Would you have thought of it?  I know I didn't think of it until I saw her turning it around and that's why it was so awesome.  If they made everything as easy as it could be after we know what happens then it would be a 20 minute movie.  It's easy for use to say all this after we've seen it and know what happens.

The Kylo/Luke fight scene was seemed pretty obvious that they were showing how blinded Kylo was by his desire to kill Luke.  It's one of a number of instances where we see how raw, immature, unfocused and dangerous for everyone Kylo is.  Its part of his character development.

I agree it would have made more sense for him to tell Leia what his plan was instead of them just figuring it out on their own.
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As a sci-fi fan, this should have been a no-brainer for any civilization capable of space travel. I literally thought to myself in the theater, I'm just going to have to choose suspension of disbelief and accept this absurdity that it wasn't a common tactic, in order to not dislike the movie. 

If we're talking realistic it would be a well-understood thing that even small items going at (or faster) than light speed would cause massive damage if they impacted something.  The fact that it hasn't been used before this would pretty much mean something like either their shields are capable of withstanding it so it's not effective, or else the technology doesn't allow it (like they wormhole/go through another dimension like in Stargate SG1/Babylon 5 so you'd just pass through)... or else you just have to choose to ignore that they couldn't think it up before this.

The same requirement of suspension of disbelief is necessary for things like the bombers in the beginning.  You're in space.  You don't "drop things" and have them just fall away below you.  You propel them and they keep traveling on that course until some other force acts on them.  Even around a planet, as high up in orbit as they are, gravity is not going to produce meaningful changes in direction at the distances involved in the fight. 

Same with chasing the Rebel ships through open space and the Imperial laser cannon shots are arcing like cannon shells would on earth.  There's no reason at all that should happen away from a strong gravity source. But sometimes you just have to shrug and don't think about it to accept Hollywood.

 
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Let me add... movies and TV shows are rarely realistic about space.  Reality just doesn't make for good graphics, and that's fine, we can suspend disbelief.  But it does get tougher when they start invoking reality to do things that they previously had completely ignored in their fake reality.

 
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Hawkeye21 said:
Completely agree.  What I loved was how it just went silent and I could hear the reaction from everyone.  It was so amazing.
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I can't wait to run that scene through my home theater & stereo. 

Also there's twenty minutes of cut footage I'd like to see

 
Speaking of suspended belief:

The force

Mind reading

Light sabers 

Standing at a docking station in space and being able to breathe and move as normal

 
Late afternoon opened up and it's a rainy ####ty day here in Dallas - at the Alamo Draft house, 3:10 start.

WOOOT!

 
C3PO just chided (strongly chided) R2D2 for smoking a cigarette in a late 70s/early 80s PSA commercial.  Good times.  Probably one of the earliest anti-smoking  campaigns.

They are showing SW related commercials in the run up. 

 
Smack Tripper said:
Do you think it’s apporpriate for a man to hit a woman?  

I damn well don’t. 

And why is that? Because we acknowledge in that construct that it’s not a fair fight. So when it’s done in Movies it’s just stupid. 

What am I missing here?
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I think a better question is what are WE missing? Were there women winning arm wrestling competitions all through these movies or something, and we missed it? What's unrealistic about the following?

Rey is a scrappy orphan who has to fend for herself and defend herself alone on a harsh desert world...who then turns out to be force sensitive. 

Rose is an engineer/pilot.

Leia has always been in a position of leadership both in government and in the rebellion's military. 

The other women in the movie were mostly in leadership or tech positions in the Resistance. 

Where's the issue? What part of any of this is unrealistic? They may be at war, but it's not 300 or Troy type physical combat, jesus. 

 
I avoided spoilers, reviews, social media and even trailers in the lead-up to TLJ, and all I can say is that I loved it, warts and all, and that I was stunned when a buddy I saw the movie with told me afterwards that a chunk of people had in fact hated it with a passion. Glad I didn't read up on the reactions beforehand, 'cause you rotten ####s would've sapped some of the joy out of the experience.

:shrug:  

 
Abrantes said:
I avoided spoilers, reviews, social media and even trailers in the lead-up to TLJ, and all I can say is that I loved it, warts and all, and that I was stunned when a buddy I saw the movie with told me afterwards that a chunk of people had in fact hated it with a passion. Glad I didn't read up on the reactions beforehand, 'cause you rotten ####s would've sapped some of the joy out of the experience.

:shrug:  
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It was great. First, part of the Star Wars allure ARE the Warts.  But those damn space fighting scenes, and the cheesy but still tug at your heartstrings Hollywood style straight out of Country & Western, Cowboys vs Indians movies.

i also loved that they played to the 5 or 7 year old in me as much as the well, almost 40 year older version. 

I really liked the very end closing scene, I LOVED the salt fight and battles ... but the general ending in between didn't quite do it. Overall loved it though 

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Saw it last night.  I guess I mostly fall in with the consensus.  The first half sucked, everything that happened in space after that was awesome, and the end was just OK.

I'll take the first half stuff a little further though.  Most just seem to think it was boring.  I thought it was not only boring, but also really dumb and really hokey.  So many eye roll moments.  Some people have mentioned re-watching already but I can't imagine sitting through the first half again.
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I liked the first half. Just a lot of good action and the eye roll stuff I explained above - ####, the 1977 version was near camp at times it felt.  

 
FreeBaGeL said:
Why do you think they are the same people?  I hated how TFA was just a remake of ANH and I really liked how TLJ (which otherwise shaping up to be a pretty bad movie) pivoted and did something different.

Several of the people in here who said they didn't like TLJ at all referenced how much they loved TFA.

I don't think it's the same people.  I think it's the opposite.  Seems like most liked either The Force Awakens OR The Last Jedi, for exactly the reason you're describing.
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Not unlike how The Empire Strikes back divided people - the bad guys won, good guys were struck down. What do we make of this?

I really liked both of the most recent flicks and felt both, in their dichotomy, represented the franchise truly.  While the repeat nature of the last film was a bit much for me, I also loved that it gave kids 30+ years younger than I am that same experience and story ark, with modern updates and visuals. This, like Empire, veered and prodded the underlying nature of good and evil and who sides or identities with members of each. 

 
Thoughts, overall very good.

Two times I  :cry: . When R2D2 showed Luke, Leias original message to Obi-Wan and when Luke and Leia reunited.

Mark Hammill had some pretty good laughs. And I am sure Luke will come back to both Ray and Kylo Ren. 

In the last shot, the kid used the force to grab the broom

 
I liked it.  Definitely some eye roll moments, and I hate Kylo Ren’s acting, but overall kept me pretty interested.  I never looked at my watch once.

much better than Force Awakens.  Not on Rogue One’s level.

 
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joffer said:
I liked it.  Definitely some eye roll moments, and I hate Kyle Ren’s acting, but overall kept me pretty interested.  I never looked at my watch once.

much better than Force Awakens.  Not on Rogue One’s level.
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TORALLY agree here. Awful. 

 
Surprised to read that. Kylo Ren the character I guess isn't for everyone, but Adam Driver I thought has killed the acting. If Driver had played Anakin in the prequels similarly to how he's playing Kylo I think a lot of us wouldn't have dismissed them so easily. 

 
ConnSKINS26 said:
Surprised to read that. Kylo Ren the character I guess isn't for everyone, but Adam Driver I thought has killed the acting. If Driver had played Anakin in the prequels similarly to how he's playing Kylo I think a lot of us wouldn't have dismissed them so easily. 
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I agree with this.

 
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