Desert_Power
Footballguy
Usually those business are pre-profitablity with growing revenue. I just hadn't looked at how bad they had been doing lately.
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Stock Thread (42 Viewers)
- Thread starter St. Louis Bob
- Start date
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
The long case is to look at GameStop as one of those companies with their new direction under Chewy CEO Ryan Cohen. Basically Chewy but for videogames (PC and console).
CR69
Footballguy
Yeah but I can’t download dog food. Retail in general has been dying so I don’t see how they’ll be any different.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Again with the "r" word. Hope these guys never have a child with developmental disabilities. :(
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Insoxicated
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Judge Smails
Footballguy
General Malaise
Footballguy
Not your fault. Just wish the world would stop tossing the "r" word around as a comedic prop. But I'm hyper sensitive and not at all cut out for reddit.
McBokonon
Footballguy
I’ll say that the R word thing is a part of that particular subreddit, not reddit in general. I subscribe to Newcastle United and other very specific boards, for example, and they’re nothing like that at all. I mean, we swear and stuff but Steve Bruce is a cabbage head so what are we supposed to do?
Point is WSB is not representative. If you have an interest, reddit can be good.
GoBirds
Footballguy
That’s insane, DFV has brass balls and deep pockets. Wow.
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Insoxicated
Jesus Christ.... I posted this on IMGUR and apparently it went nuts overnight... got some "most viral" award on the site.
Apparently a lotta folks don't know how to use Reddit.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Yea I actually was thinking about AMC before all this madness and I am just super slow because I don’t know what I am doing or how much to invest. I guess it is hard to lose really these days, but in my around 2 years of buying random stocks/etf, Only a handful are red and barely so.
moleculo
Footballguy
If I were Melvin, here's how I would play this: maybe on Monday (Feb 1), do a fake cover: cover maybe 25% of outstanding shorts at market price. Leak anonymously that you are out completely. That massive purchase will cause the price to spike and you will take a big hit. But after the spike will come a crash.
This entire bubble is purely based on the concept of a short squeeze. So- get squeezed. As soon as it's over, only the
will still be holding...all of the rando retail and institutional investors will cash out, only a few belligerent #WSB will still be holding.
That's when you unload the rest of your shorts and get out.
Further, if you know the exact timing of the spike and the drop, you do more shorts. Short at the spike and cash in on the drop, recovering all of your losses.
I think there is money to be made for the apes of #WSB but it will be trying to catch a falling knife.
ETA: I'd leak info that all of the shorts are due Feb 1 and let the news percolate all weekend. Really sell the idea that everything must be covered Monday.
This entire bubble is purely based on the concept of a short squeeze. So- get squeezed. As soon as it's over, only the
will still be holding...all of the rando retail and institutional investors will cash out, only a few belligerent #WSB will still be holding.That's when you unload the rest of your shorts and get out.
Further, if you know the exact timing of the spike and the drop, you do more shorts. Short at the spike and cash in on the drop, recovering all of your losses.
I think there is money to be made for the apes of #WSB but it will be trying to catch a falling knife.
ETA: I'd leak info that all of the shorts are due Feb 1 and let the news percolate all weekend. Really sell the idea that everything must be covered Monday.
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Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
They are trying this already on the other boards, but the WSB gang is telling everyone it's not true and shorts will be covering over weeks.If I were Melvin, here's how I would play this: maybe on Monday (Feb 1), do a fake cover: cover maybe 25% of outstanding shorts at market price. Leak anonymously that you are out completely. That massive purchase will cause the price to spike and you will take a big hit. But after the spike will come a crash.
This entire bubble is purely based on the concept of a short squeeze. So- get squeezed. As soon as it's over, only the
That's when you unload the rest of your shorts and get out.
Further, if you know the exact timing of the spike and the drop, you do more shorts. Short at the spike and cash in on the drop, recovering all of your losses.
I think there is money to be made for the apes of #WSB but it will be trying to catch a falling knife.
ETA: I'd leak info that all of the shorts are due Feb 1 and let the news percolate all weekend. Really sell the idea that everything must be covered Monday.
moleculo
Footballguy
Problem, I think, is that the volume hasn't reflected. Spread the fale news and couple with a giant spike in volume will be the signal.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Can't wait until big hedge funds are waging online misinformation campaigns to try and get the small guys heading in the wrong direction.
I'm sure they are trying to find some way to sow discord and suspicion within the WSB ranks. They are likely reaching out to cozy bear and any other non-state online hackers to try and break the WSB cabal.
I'm sure they are trying to find some way to sow discord and suspicion within the WSB ranks. They are likely reaching out to cozy bear and any other non-state online hackers to try and break the WSB cabal.
moleculo
Footballguy
They have been doing this for a long time already...part of the game.
1. Find a stock you want to tank
2. Short it.
3. Fake news campaign, including talking heads like Jim Kramer who shout it down.
4. Sabotage company from inside - bribes, corporate espionage, etc.
5. If company goes bankrupt, no need to cover short positions - pure profit.
Penanties for all of this, if you get caught, are less than potential profit.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
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cosjobs
Footballguy
Pretty sure that would be illegal. Not that that would prevent it.If I were Melvin, here's how I would play this: maybe on Monday (Feb 1), do a fake cover: cover maybe 25% of outstanding shorts at market price. Leak anonymously that you are out completely. That massive purchase will cause the price to spike and you will take a big hit. But after the spike will come a crash.
This entire bubble is purely based on the concept of a short squeeze. So- get squeezed. As soon as it's over, only the
That's when you unload the rest of your shorts and get out.
Further, if you know the exact timing of the spike and the drop, you do more shorts. Short at the spike and cash in on the drop, recovering all of your losses.
I think there is money to be made for the apes of #WSB but it will be trying to catch a falling knife.
ETA: I'd leak info that all of the shorts are due Feb 1 and let the news percolate all weekend. Really sell the idea that everything must be covered Monday.
moleculo
Footballguy
Not all of them do it, probably not even most. There is absolutely money to be made in tanking publicly traded companies though.
moleculo
Footballguy
The Z Machine
Footballguy
I'm sure about that. I don't doubt GM's sincerity on the fact that he doesn't do that, and that running a hedge fund is really really tough.
Doesn't mean that those that abuse the system shouldn't be punished... hard and / or the system changed.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Yep, its always been a bit more a cesspool than the rest of Reddit (particularly since most of the more extreme subs got banned). My roommate was making tons of money and then losing it all with them like 8 years ago.
R/SPACs has really upped their moderation lately to keep some of that stuff from leaking through.
moleculo
Footballguy
cosjobs
Footballguy
I sent this to my Congressman today:
Congressman Doggett,
I am retired and try to eek out a living as a retail stock investor/trader. I can really empathize with those decrying the way hedge funds and wholesale traders completely tilt the playing field in their direction, at the expense of the small guys.
I have an idea that I think would work in resolving some of this imbalance:
Any trade(s) over $500,000 made in a five minute window are subject to a 2% tax. It would handicap the big layer a bit and help the small investor- al the while generating a huge amount of revenue for the government. And no one would have to pay the tax, if the just slowed down the pace of huge, market changing transactions. And they still could do it, they'd just have to pay for it. It should have zero impact on retail investors, except that they could not be so easily manipulated by outside forces. The $number, transaction amount, and time window could all be tweaked or adjusted to optimize benefit and ability to pass the bill.
Warm Regards,
cosjobs
Congressman Doggett,
I am retired and try to eek out a living as a retail stock investor/trader. I can really empathize with those decrying the way hedge funds and wholesale traders completely tilt the playing field in their direction, at the expense of the small guys.
I have an idea that I think would work in resolving some of this imbalance:
Any trade(s) over $500,000 made in a five minute window are subject to a 2% tax. It would handicap the big layer a bit and help the small investor- al the while generating a huge amount of revenue for the government. And no one would have to pay the tax, if the just slowed down the pace of huge, market changing transactions. And they still could do it, they'd just have to pay for it. It should have zero impact on retail investors, except that they could not be so easily manipulated by outside forces. The $number, transaction amount, and time window could all be tweaked or adjusted to optimize benefit and ability to pass the bill.
Warm Regards,
cosjobs
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
No idea if it's true or not but someone on WSB said they dug through the balance sheets of one of the hedge funds and posted a screenshot where there was a fine listed for misreporting their position on a stock. The fine was $800.
And of course, Melvin has already tried reporting that they'd covered their entire position and no one bought it, and we're barely even talking about the massive fraud implications that should have if true.
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Desert_Power
Footballguy
How would you feel about this tax being passed on to every investment in 401k and pension plans?
ETA: This probably isn't the thread for this though.
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moleculo
Footballguy
cosjobs
Footballguy
Same thing. Should mass investors have an advantage (beyond monetary) over retail investors, regardless of purpose?
cosjobs
Footballguy
Exactly and that slower pace would have a profound influence on stock price movement.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I certainly see no compelling reason for the government to make it much easier for small retail investors to manipulate meme stocks in near bankrupt companies. Particularly when such a proposal hurts basically everyone that isn't managing their own investments, which is a lot bigger community.
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Insoxicated
#### $800. These guys drink wine that costs more than that.
Make the fine 50% of the claimed position involved.
That won't happen anymore.
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Navin Johnson
Footballguy
I think 24 hours is fine. The further out you set that threshold, the more it hurts the small investor who is more likely losing opportunity cost. It's already progressive, just needs more tiers.
Navin Johnson
Footballguy
Their not scheming behind closed doors like the HF guys, they are doing it out in the open where everyone can see and hedge accordingly.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Still, there is no valid reason for the government to further subsidize it (by massively taxing everyone else).
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I would assume the problem is that these funds are in and out of a ton of positions and I'm sure legitimate mistakes do happen, so how do you differentiate the two?
But yea, Melvin very likely made the calculated decision that any fine passed down for reporting that they'd fully covered their position was going to be couch pennies if it worked and bailed them out of this awful trade.
moleculo
Footballguy
I don't believe #WSB is big enough to move the market this much. I think the publicity caught attention of other whales who saw the opportunity and jumped in.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
I don't think anyone would have a problem with that if the government were also making it so large institutional investors couldn't manipulate stocks. But we've seen over hundreds of years that is not even a small priority for them and even if it were there's probably not that much they can do about it unless they start giving REAL penalties to the institutions that manipulate the market.
I'm not kidding when I say this exact same kind of thing that is going on with Gamestop happens hundreds of times a day on other stocks, driven by institutions. There's not a profitable professional day trader in existence that doesn't base a major part of their strategy around how the institutions are pushing around the price of whatever the dozens of popular trading stocks for that day are, literally every single day.
It’s all this crap that makes me glad I’m a long term investor. It does suck to know that the loss in my portfolio the last week or so is 100% directly related to the WSB vs hedge fund war. The good thing about it is that in 5 years it won’t matter.
I still don’t think the bad for the overall market is done yet.
I still don’t think the bad for the overall market is done yet.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
You don't think there's something organic about a market that has shot straight up at unprecedented levels for months having a 4% pullback in a week? People have been saying the market was ripe for a 10-20% pullback for the last month.
The market dropped more in a day than it has this week a couple months ago, then followed it up with 3 more days of the same. Was that because of a WSB war?
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I agree with the first point, not really the bold. Historically massive moves like this short squeeze aren't happening hundreds of times a day. True, there is a lot of institutional activity in the HFT/dark pool spaces driven by algos driving marginal moves day traders can study.
cosjobs
Footballguy
My point was to level the playing field for the untold millions of retail investors , not to benefit any reddit aberration. And frankly, I'm unsure how this would help the GMEers. And I agree with a previous poster that there needs to be some taxation of the market. This would be a relatively painless way to do it without affecting the small retail investor.
FreeBaGeL
Footballguy
Right I was more talking about the manipulation of it. The institutions are literally in dozens of stocks making hundreds of trades every day on the singular basis of manipulating a stock price to do what they want to trick investors into thinking something they can then leverage to make another trade where they can profit off of those tricked investors. Not one shred of thought about the fundamentals of the company involved, with the one and only singular goal of manipulating a stock chart to do what they want.
But even with that said, there are massive short squeezes every day. Maybe not like this, or at least on a company this big, but the first thing day traders do every morning is wake up and see which stocks are up 100%+ on the morning on no news. There are absolutely scenarios all the time where a stock worth a couple bucks shoots to the moon.
And of course there are all kinds of reasons stocks blow up that have nothing to do with fundamentals. A few months ago UONE shot up 3600% in a day (from $1 to $36) because they have a black CEO and people decided they were going to make a sympathy trade with BLM.
I am part of a day trading group and pretty much every day there is some random stock shooting up hundreds of percent, often on the back of a manipulated short squeeze where MMs intentionally trapped shorts.
I absolutely think it was. The market has been on edge so I know it was ripe. I’m just saying that I think it triggered it.
I wasn’t into investing (I should have been SMH, but very young and probably house poor) back in 2000. I did know a lot of the Internet stocks and knowing some of the high flyers were let’s say not worth it and a lot of valuation worries were there. One of the first trigger points before Enron/Worldcom was Microstrategy (the BTC darling). That’s right, Saylor and his boys were fudging their numbers and got caught. Go look at the MSTR chart and you’ll see the spike when the markets were spiking. When they rolled over it seemed to start a domino effect like how many other companies are doing the same?
Well, when you have massive short covering in the billions and billions, that’s a lot of cash to expend so it starts hitting stocks that need to be liquidated. It’s not a 1 for 1 cause, but yes, it started a bit of a tipping point IMHO. Only “hot” stocks haven’t dipped.
Also, don’t get me wrong that it’s over. I’m just saying that I think it was the start. There are pull backs all the time and since April, it’s been about once a month but quick recovery. I think this could be deeper than that every month thing.
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Desert_Power
Footballguy
Yet your proposal would take a massive cut out of everyone investing in employer retirement or pension plans. I'm more concerned with regulation further protecting those investors than people buying individual securities on their own. The latter is expected to be more savvy. We're never going to be in the world where most of society is following the stock market daily, much less individual securities. Nor should they.
cosjobs
Footballguy
massive? If 2% is too much over 500,000, make a bunch of 499,999 trades.
And reduce the 2% to 1/2%, I'm willing to negotiate if you can do anything rather than dig in your heels.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
I agree this takes place and agree with the notion there are more reforms that should be made. One reason I got out of CYDY is because of the energy it took following all these activities each day. These are typically going to be institutions vs other institutions/large investors though.
I guess where I differ is that I don't find it particularly desirable for lot's of low information voters to play the same high-stakes casino activity. And I think a lot of people are going to lose their shirts on this one. I've followed WSBs enough over the years to know there is a lot of "loss porn" too. Even though it is paternalistic, I think the regulators have a duty to protect them too.
Sideshow Bob
Footballguy
There are definitely broader market impacts from this. That's not even a question. And the two conditions are likely to feed off each other. The frothy market is due for a pullback, yes, but pullbacks also generally have catalysts. It's not unreasonable to think this one.
I think these firms have and are going to continue to have decisions to make. If they can't hedge in the manner they're accustomed to hedging, do they have to de-risk some? Have they already to some extent? Does that potentially explain some of the movement last week? It might. I think it's a realistic possibility that there's more to come if this is protracted and if there are shots fired at lots of large short positions. We can curse the hedge funds all we want, but their equity investments are part of what's propping up these unprecedented values. If they have to change the way they invest, there's short-term pain to be felt from it.
