Student Debt Protests (1 Viewer)

[bosoxs45]

I wouldn't be able to afford grad school without stipends and TA'ing. Good luck trying to find a Masters terminal program with funding.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

I don't see a lot of these options as "much less than $100K", but we are probably just picking nits.   First option has the kids living at home, which doesn't include room and board, so that would easily be over that range.  the last one is still $80K, which is a ton of money and still around what we are talking about. 

I know it's been a long time, but just since I have gone to the state school here, I have seen the cost of going jump up by a factor of 8 to 10.  I am willing to guess that 0 careers have seen that same rate of increase in their salaries.  I am not sure what the answer is, but I just think it's sad that it feels like the only options for not saddling our kids with insane debt is staying at home for college, going to a CC, or hopefully they are really good at sports. 

I agree that it is a huge problem.

The simple fact is that the massive inflation in college costs was mostly caused by making student loans widely available, with essentially no limits on who could borrow or how much.

 

[bosoxs45]

I am a supporter of liberal arts as an educational pursuit. My undergrad degree was in communications, with a secondary focus on sociology (of course, in my case that was because I was a terrible student my first two years of college and couldn't get into competitive concentrations, but that is neither here nor there).

This is really a consumer protection proposal to stop young people who are not thinking practically or who are just bad at the maths from running up an unsustainable debt load to fund a degree with a very low ROI. 

I also think there should be massive limits placed on student debt provided to students at for-profit colleges, since that is the source of a huge amount of the bad student debt and most of those schools either deliver a pathetic ROI (despite most of them being pitched as career-enhancers) or are just plain scams.

I know someone who studied in Global Liberal studies at NYU and now is attending Columbia's grad school for International Relations. I can't fanthom going into 100K debt for that kind of degree.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

When did they get into the social justice business, and there weren't teachers/reporters/sociologists before that time?

You mean those professions didn't exist before the universities started getting into the social justice business?  Huh.

Somebody's grasp of reality appears a bit...tenuous.

 

[jonessed]

Gotcha - so arts degree and the business degree would still both cost $100K, but the arts major could only borrow $50K?  (just throwing examples and #s around). 

I guess I am just artsy fartsy Lib, but I would also not be for going down that road of squeezing more and more arts and literature out of our lives and educational system, which is basically what this is getting at.  It would be really boring to just churn out engineers and business majors.  God forbid if somebody doesn't have the aptitude or interest in the science and math.  I am not saying there are majors that will struggle a lot more than others to pay off their debts than others or only have 1 or 2 paths to success, but I am not sure about this idea either. 

If loan amounts aren't capped by some rational means school expenses will continue to skyrocket.  There is no incentive for them to moderate costs.  They have a captive audience and a bottomless cash flow to fund themselves.  There is little to no limit to what they can charge.  It's become a giant scam.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

I know someone who studied in Global Liberal studies at NYU and now is attending Columbia's grad school for International Relations. I can't fanthom going into 100K debt for that kind of degree.

Nor could I.

I think I had about $40K of student debt when I got out of grad school. Fortunately, my income after grad school was high enough that I managed to pay it back in just a few years. 

I was also fortunate that my parents helped me out some during grad school. They loaned me addition monies and also gifted me some. I paid back the loans from them also.

 

[sbonomo]

I agree that it is a huge problem.

The simple fact is that the massive inflation in college costs was mostly caused by making student loans widely available, with essentially no limits on who could borrow or how much.

But we should throw endless amounts of money toward anything that remotely relates to education right (SARCASM)?  There are so many things broken today, i really do feel bad for the next generation sometimes.  

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

But we should throw endless amounts of money toward anything that remotely relates to education right (SARCASM)?  There are so many things broken today, i really do feel bad for the next generation sometimes.  

Oh, man. Don't get me started on the topic of spending per student as the metric for "doing the right thing for education".

Suffice it to say that the elevation of that ratio to something approaching gospel among the credulous is a huge win for teachers' unions, while having done basically nothing to improve the quality of public education in this country.

 

[Wrigley]

Nor could I.

It'll be fine, they can always riot.

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

It'll be fine, they can always riot.

Occupy Everything!

 

[KarmaPolice]

I am a supporter of liberal arts as an educational pursuit. My undergrad degree was in communications, with a secondary focus on sociology (of course, in my case that was because I was a terrible student my first two years of college and couldn't get into competitive concentrations, but that is neither here nor there).

This is really a consumer protection proposal to stop young people who are not thinking practically or who are just bad at the maths from running up an unsustainable debt load to fund a degree with a very low ROI. 

I also think there should be massive limits placed on student debt provided to students at for-profit colleges, since that is the source of a huge amount of the bad student debt and most of those schools either deliver a pathetic ROI (despite most of them being pitched as career-enhancers) or are just plain scams.

 You bring up some great points for sure.  I still don't know what I think should be the beginning point to attack this problem, but I think we are all at least in agreement that the system is ####ed in it's current state.  I just think it's sad that it feels like there are very few careers out that are worth the price tag we are talking about.  Most that do probably require even more schooling and costs.

I still have about 8 years before we cross this bridge with our 1st, but I know we aren't going to be able to help much unfortunately.  I just hope that he continues at his current growth rate and is 6'9"-6'10" like predicted and can dunk.  If not, I would think that CC ---> transfer is probably the best bet to try to keep costs down. 

 

[RedmondLonghorn]

 You bring up some great points for sure.  I still don't know what I think should be the beginning point to attack this problem, but I think we are all at least in agreement that the system is ####ed in it's current state.  I just think it's sad that it feels like there are very few careers out that are worth the price tag we are talking about.  Most that do probably require even more schooling and costs.

I still have about 8 years before we cross this bridge with our 1st, but I know we aren't going to be able to help much unfortunately.  I just hope that he continues at his current growth rate and is 6'9"-6'10" like predicted and can dunk.  If not, I would think that CC ---> transfer is probably the best bet to try to keep costs down. 

Again, the problem as it exists now has been caused by the things that were intended to help make college more accessible.

When I was an undergrad, student loans were really only available to students that could demonstrate need and even in those cases, there were caps on how much could be borrowed. Somewhere along the line (there were two changes to the law in 1992 and 1993, I am not sure which was the big change), loans became available to anybody and the amount that could be borrowed essentially became unlimited. 

If you look at the historical data on college cost inflation, it isn't difficult to see that its rate of increase really increases around the time that loan availability was expanded. 

 

[stlrams]

I love the absolutes on this board.  You guys always make it sound so easy. 

It could and should be a lot easier if parents and kids made better financial decisions with respect to their college choice.  I fully understand that some parents don't have the economic resources to fully save but the plan should be

1) CC for 2 years

2) State school for next 2.

3) Open 529 plans on day 1 and fund what you can afford.  

 

[Buddy Ball 2K3]

It could and should be a lot easier if parents and kids made better financial decisions with respect to their college choice.  I fully understand that some parents don't have the economic resources to fully save but the plan should be

1) CC for 2 years

2) State school for next 2.

3) Open 529 plans on day 1 and fund what you can afford.  

 

4) Apply for every single grant/scholarship possible

5) Child begins working part time asap and puts majority of $$ into savings - Child continues to work while in college to pay for college expenses 

 

[CletiusMaximus]

This reminds me of 2008. Everyone gets worked up blaming individuals for poor decision-making, ranting about personal responsibility and "entitlements," when it seems more likely that large banking interests would be the primary beneficiaries of a student loan bailout.

It seems whenever we have a "debt crisis", the "crisis" part isn't that people are in debt, its that lenders, insurers and investors aren't getting paid.

 

[eoMMan]

What if they are going to be a sociology major, a teacher, reporter, or researcher in these topics?  Or should these things just not be taught at all?

I would say that's fine if you want to pay for that particular (and it should be available), but don't ##### and moan when it doesn't translate to a good paying job and your stuck with student debt.

 

[Sabertooth]

This reminds me of 2008. Everyone gets worked up blaming individuals for poor decision-making, ranting about personal responsibility and "entitlements," when it seems more likely that large banking interests would be the primary beneficiaries of a student loan bailout.

It seems whenever we have a "debt crisis", the "crisis" part isn't that people are in debt, its that lenders, insurers and investors aren't getting paid.

Pretty much.  

 

[Spin]

http://admissions.psu.edu/costs-aid/tuition/

Penn State University

$30-33k for Main Campus

$25-30k for any of the satellite campuses

That's a state school.  This is a problem.

My sister and I both went to state schools.  

We both graduated with right around 40k in debt.  She has an art degree, and is a very talented artist.  She manages a fabric store, making 2200 a month in salary.  She's on an income based repayment plan for her federal loans and has barely touched the principal.  Her plan is to make the minimum payment for the next 25 years. And apparently the remaining balance will be forgiven.  That's insane.  The bulk of her debt occurred in the first two years when she had mandatory residency living, before she got an apartment off campus. Same for me.  My freshman and sophomore year I was required to live in the dorms and purchase a meal plan.  

From the school I went to. 

Fees (per year)In-State

In-State Fees*$8,551

Residence Hall Room**$4,730

Meal Plan***$4,226

TOTAL (per year)$17,507