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Suspended for stating facts? (1 Viewer)

hagmania said:
You're not being insightful whatsoever. I'm just telling you what the climate is. Which, as a hobbyist meteorologist, you should be very deft at reading climates.
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I'm actually being very insightful.  I'm trying to get people to understand that hiding your head in the sand is not a solution.  Things like this hurt real racism issues.  

Maybe you could go on Twitch and explain it better with a pigeon video game.

 
TheIronSheik said:
I'm actually being very insightful.  I'm trying to get people to understand that hiding your head in the sand is not a solution.  Things like this hurt real racism issues.  

Maybe you could go on Twitch and explain it better with a pigeon video game.
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The crux to this discussion, is that I haven't shared what I actually feel. I was just stating a fact about modern day society and cancel culture, and you used my post as a launching post for your soapbox.

I completely agree with your bold statement.

 
hagmania said:
The crux to this discussion, is that I haven't shared what I actually feel. I was just stating a fact about modern day society and cancel culture, and you used my post as a launching post for your soapbox.

I completely agree with your bold statement.
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No, you came in kicking down the door screaming, "We don't talk about race anymore!!!!"  You are part of the problem.  You hurt real racial issues because you are so worried about talking about the skin color of another human being.  You are the guy who will say, "He's the guy in the brown shirt and blue pants", when you are trying to point out the one black guy in a crowd of white people.  God forbid you say the word 'black.'  

You are the problem because you let things like this get out of hand when you could easily just say, "It's not an issue."  You are the problem.

 
TheIronSheik said:
No, you came in kicking down the door screaming, "We don't talk about race anymore!!!!"  You are part of the problem.  You hurt real racial issues because you are so worried about talking about the skin color of another human being.  You are the guy who will say, "He's the guy in the brown shirt and blue pants", when you are trying to point out the one black guy in a crowd of white people.  God forbid you say the word 'black.'  

You are the problem because you let things like this get out of hand when you could easily just say, "It's not an issue."  You are the problem.
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Man, just stop. I'm none of those things.

I agree that we shouldn't be afraid. I was just amazed that you seemed amazed the guy got canned.

 
One of my favorite things about white people is they always think they know best when it comes to fixing racism.  :rolleyes:

 
hagmania said:
Man, just stop. I'm none of those things.

I agree that we shouldn't be afraid. I was just amazed that you seemed amazed the guy got canned.
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You're exactly those things.  Your opinion is that we shouldn't talk about the color of people's skin.  THE WHITE PERSON HAS SPOKEN!

 
TheIronSheik said:
You're exactly those things.  Your opinion is that we shouldn't talk about the color of people's skin.  THE WHITE PERSON HAS SPOKEN!
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You're completely right. I'm a young, white guy that's completely out of his element because I was raised in a smalltown that was 95% white. You've made me reflect on what I've said on this thread and I think I'm in the wrong here. Good on you.

 
hagmania said:
You're completely right. I'm a young, white guy that's completely out of his element because I was raised in a smalltown that was 95% white. You've made me reflect on what I've said on this thread and I think I'm in the wrong here. Good on you.
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If nothing else, you've ruined a good thread.  So congratulations for that, I guess.  

 
TheIronSheik said:
If nothing else, you've ruined a good thread.  So congratulations for that, I guess.  
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I personally felt like I learned a valuable lesson. And that's being honest. Sorry your thread got derailed, but thanks for speaking well to the topic at hand imo.

 
hagmania said:
TheIronSheik said:
You mean that racist thing that his skin color along with a dark uniform makes it easy to hide a football?  I believe that's an actual chant from the KKK.  
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If you can't see that saying anything in the year 2019 about skin color is basically off-limits, especially as a talking head to the public, I don't know what to tell you. It brought nothing of value to the discussion and put his employer in an unwinnable position.
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:goodposting:

It doesn't matter if what he said might be true. The bottom line is that you gotta know your customers. And when your customer base is a mixture of woke liberals and African Americans, then you shouldn't ever say anything that has the slightest bit to do with race.

 
I'm starting to think it wasn't the politics that ruined this forum.  It was the people.  Maybe I need to rethink being here.  Maybe time has passed me by.  

This place used to be so much fun and we could have intelligent conversations.  But those days are long gone.  

 
[scooter] said:
:goodposting:

It doesn't matter if what he said might be true. The bottom line is that you gotta know your customers. And when your customer base is a mixture of woke liberals and African Americans, then you shouldn't ever say anything that has the slightest bit to do with race.
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Sheik made a very good counter argument to this imo. It gave me something to think about.

 
TheIronSheik said:
One of my favorite things about white people is they always think they know best when it comes to fixing racism.  :rolleyes:
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Makes sense; we're the original source, so what better place to look for the solution?

:sarcasm: in case you're not familiar with my work here.

TheIronSheik said:
I'm starting to think it wasn't the politics that ruined this forum.  It was the people.  Maybe I need to rethink being here.  Maybe time has passed me by.  

This place used to be so much fun and we could have intelligent conversations.  But those days are long gone.  
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Are you a fair-weather fan of your favorite sports team, abandoning them when they have a down year? Sure there are times when this place is in the ####ter but does that mean you give up?  Remember, when the going gets tough..........................................................................................THE TOUGH GET GOING!

 
TheIronSheik said:
I'm starting to think it wasn't the politics that ruined this forum.  It was the people.  Maybe I need to rethink being here.  Maybe time has passed me by.  

This place used to be so much fun and we could have intelligent conversations.  But those days are long gone.  
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Honestly--the world would be a better place if people realized that there might be some validity to both sides of an argument.   I feel like you both have made valid arguments---but I feel like you have a bit of "if you don't fully agree with me--you are not capable of having an intelligent conversation".   I'm not poking fun of you as I agree with you on a lot of things--but intelligent conversation involves being open to hearing, understanding and possibly accepting parts of both sides of an argument.   We all have to get better at that--myself and yourself included. 

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Honestly--the world would be a better place if people realized that there might be some validity to both sides of an argument.   I feel like you both have made valid arguments---but I feel like you have a bit of "if you don't fully agree with me--you are not capable of having an intelligent conversation".   I'm not poking fun of you as I agree with you on a lot of things--but intelligent conversation involves being open to hearing, understanding and possibly accepting parts of both sides of an argument.   We all have to get better at that--myself and yourself included. 
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I just read the thread and yeah, this is how it's coming off. Iron Shiek is a good poster, but in this case he seemed to get really riled up when somebody just stated the reality. 

It seems like the call is for people to "stand up" and publicly denounce overreaction to these types of comments. Unfortunately, doing so is extremely risky with little reward. I think as a society we'll all get burned out on the outrage and it will shift and change as social media does. 

 
I don't think the statement itself was racist. But it does speak to a continuing mindset - when Peyton Manning is a wizard of the ball fake and play action pass, it's a tribute to his intelligence, hard work, and determination to master every aspect of playing the quarterback position. When Lamar Jackson shows similar mastery, it's because the ball blends into his arm and jersey. 

I would like to get to a place where the conversation is simply: "Lamar was really incredible with his ball handling and decision making." Because I must say, having watched every Ravens snap this season, the 22-year-old has made the wrong read on whether to keep the ball or hand it off about 2 times all season. And yet I haven't heard much conversation about the high football IQ he's demonstrated in orchestrating a record-setting offense.

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Honestly--the world would be a better place if people realized that there might be some validity to both sides of an argument.   I feel like you both have made valid arguments---but I feel like you have a bit of "if you don't fully agree with me--you are not capable of having an intelligent conversation".   I'm not poking fun of you as I agree with you on a lot of things--but intelligent conversation involves being open to hearing, understanding and possibly accepting parts of both sides of an argument.   We all have to get better at that--myself and yourself included. 
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Truly, I don't think the comments or context or anything involving this incident was racist. My angle is that it was very tone deaf. I like the take that just because it might be tone deaf as it plays today doesn't mean these things can't be said, or that we should be afraid to move the conversation past these shallow, knee-jerk reactions. But I do think there's quite a lot of work to be done between here and that point.

 
hagmania said:
Truly, I don't think the comments or context or anything involving this incident was racist. My angle is that it was very tone deaf. I like the take that just because it might be tone deaf as it plays today doesn't mean these things can't be said, or that we should be afraid to move the conversation past these shallow, knee-jerk reactions. But I do think there's quite a lot of work to be done between here and that point.
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So the only question I have is, why should the guy lose money and be suspended? Cant they simply say, Hey Tim, we dont want any issues, please dont say things like this going forward?

Like I said, no room for common sense anymore.  

 
Cjw_55106 said:
So the only question I have is, why should the guy lose money and be suspended? Cant they simply say, Hey Tim, we dont want any issues, please dont say things like this going forward?

Like I said, no room for common sense anymore.  
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Quite frankly, it is most likely a business decision. I don't think the 49ers are out here looking to be champions of race relations. Instead they'd rather not risk any revenue lost from advertisers. If I had to guess.

 
Cjw_55106 said:
So the only question I have is, why should the guy lose money and be suspended? Cant they simply say, Hey Tim, we dont want any issues, please dont say things like this going forward?

Like I said, no room for common sense anymore.  
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They can do that if they think that's what's best for their company. But, if their contract with him allows this to be a suspendable offense and they think suspending him will be best for their business, then they're going to suspend him.

I think a lot of companies are afraid of anything potentially controversial and how it affects their bottom line. 

 
We coddle the dumb instead of letting them die. Now their numbers have grow exponentially. This is what you get.

Not everyone is supposed to make it. 

 
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Golf uses white balls, pretty sure there are some albino pigs out there where football could do the same.  But they won't because of demographics.

 
Acceptable to call him NOT a horrible, nasty racist and still think it's inappropriate?

Dr. Harry Edwards, a sociologist, longtime civil rights activist and 49ers consultant, listened to the radio clip and said he was particularly troubled that Ryan’s comments perpetuated the bigotry involving black players and particularly the quarterback position.

“I know Tim and he is not of a maleficent mind relative to these types of issues — but of course that does not mean that he gets or should get a ‘pass’ regarding his comments on Lamar Jackson and assigning ANY dimension of Lamar’s undeniable brilliance at QB to his skin color — a raw and sensitive assessment and assertion not only because it is profoundly obtuse and ignorant on its face and carries implications that I’m certain were not intended, but because skin color has been such a factor in rationalizing denial of Black athletes’ opportunities to play the QB position over most of the NFL’s 100 years of existence,” Edwards wrote in an email to The Chronicle before Ryan was suspended.

Edwards called the incident a “learning moment” and hoped Ryan would apologize and put the comments behind him.

“And then, let’s move on,” Edwards said.
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Hitters/managers complain all the time in baseball about lack of contrast so there is merit. 

I don't think he should be suspended for it, but I also don't feel bad for him at all. 

 
TheIronSheik said:
Why was it dumb?  Is it not true that if everything is dark it's easier to deceive where the ball actually is?  It wasn't like he said that's the reason he's a good quarterback.  He didn't say his race made him what he was.  He simply said that the color of his skin and uniform is helping him do something all quarterbacks do.  I don't know why that is dumb.
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Are you saying that you can’t tell whether or not a black guy has a football in his hand just by looking at his hand? Does Lamar Jackson have enormous hands that engulf the football? Are his hands football shaped or something? I just don’t think it’s reasonable to believe that somebody would see Jackson’s empty hands and get confused and think that there may be a football in them because of his skin color. That seems absurd to me.

Have there been previous comments about how black RBs have an advantage because you can’t tell if they actually got a handoff or if they fumbled the ball because of the color of their hands? My guess is no. Why not?

This guy is on the radio in SF. I wonder if he made similar observations when Kaepernick was there?

 
jvdesigns2002 said:
Honestly--the world would be a better place if people realized that there might be some validity to both sides of an argument.   I feel like you both have made valid arguments---but I feel like you have a bit of "if you don't fully agree with me--you are not capable of having an intelligent conversation".   I'm not poking fun of you as I agree with you on a lot of things--but intelligent conversation involves being open to hearing, understanding and possibly accepting parts of both sides of an argument.   We all have to get better at that--myself and yourself included. 
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I'm all for hearing both sides.  But the reason I snapped back at him was because his argument was, "He should know better."  That wasn't the point of the thread.  Things will never get better if we allow people to lose their jobs over things that aren't racist.  

But, fair enough.  I've learned my lesson.  I think I'm done participating in any kind of thread that isn't about weather or television.  As I said, there was a time on this board when everyone wasn't so serious.  It was a fun place that smart people could discuss pretty deep subjects.  That time has long passed and I guess that's on me for trying to cling on to the glory days.  

 
hagmania said:
You're completely right. I'm a young, white guy that's completely out of his element because I was raised in a smalltown that was 95% white. You've made me reflect on what I've said on this thread and I think I'm in the wrong here. Good on you.
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Well played. :lol:

 
TheIronSheik said:
I'm all for hearing both sides.  But the reason I snapped back at him was because his argument was, "He should know better."  That wasn't the point of the thread.  Things will never get better if we allow people to lose their jobs over things that aren't racist.  

But, fair enough.  I've learned my lesson.  I think I'm done participating in any kind of thread that isn't about weather or television.  As I said, there was a time on this board when everyone wasn't so serious.  It was a fun place that smart people could discuss pretty deep subjects.  That time has long passed and I guess that's on me for trying to cling on to the glory days.  
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Not at all--you are a great contributor to these boards--and you should participate more--not less.  My only point is that the beauty of this forum is that it is a tool that can be used to invite intelligent conversation.  Intelligent conversation involves an exchange of different of views in an inviting and polite way.  Being dismissive and confrontational about and towards any opposing points of view is not intelligent conversation--in fact--it is the opposite of it.  A great thread is one where different points of view and facets are discussed and digested.   That can and should be done without the fear of confrontation or snark.     Keep in mind--I'm not trying to point fun at you or accuse you of anything bad---this is something we all need to work on as a community.   If I came across as being hostile towards you--I want to make transparently clear that it wasn't my goal or intention.  

 
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TheIronSheik said:
I'm all for hearing both sides.  But the reason I snapped back at him was because his argument was, "He should know better."  That wasn't the point of the thread.  Things will never get better if we allow people to lose their jobs over things that aren't racist.  

But, fair enough.  I've learned my lesson.  I think I'm done participating in any kind of thread that isn't about weather or television.  As I said, there was a time on this board when everyone wasn't so serious.  It was a fun place that smart people could discuss pretty deep subjects.  That time has long passed and I guess that's on me for trying to cling on to the glory days.  
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You seem to be the one taking it most seriously.

 
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