JohnnyU
Footballguy
Most of the time that is a misnomer
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TE Colston Loveland, CHI (1 Viewer)
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Max Power
Footballguy
Kmet is the better player and Williams doesn't look at the TE.I hope things are different next year, but I need to see it first.
ZWK
Footballguy
Hayden Winks & Josh Norris's pre-draft profile video of Loveland. They both liked him a lot and had him as their TE1.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
You're saying Kmet is the better player than Loveland?
I hope things are different next year, but I need to see it first.
Maybe you're right if that's your take. But man, you are in a very small minority thinking that.
And I said this in the Warren thread, but it would apply just as much if not more to Loveland for me
"If you're really keen on taking him early in a TEP, I'd be praying for the Bears to snag him. Obviously great draft capital, clear path to starting, creative OC (who we watched scheme LaPorta to the TE1 overall his rookie season) just two years ago. That would move the needle on Warren for me quite a bit."
Sunday Gravy
Footballguy
I'd be stunned if Loveland looks much different than Kmet.You're saying Kmet is the better player than Loveland?
I hope things are different next year, but I need to see it first.
Maybe you're right if that's your take. But man, you are in a very small minority thinking that.
And I said this in the Warren thread, but it would apply just as much if not more to Loveland for me
"If you're really keen on taking him early in a TEP, I'd be praying for the Bears to snag him. Obviously great draft capital, clear path to starting, creative OC (who we watched scheme LaPorta to the TE1 overall his rookie season) just two years ago. That would move the needle on Warren for me quite a bit."
Max Power
Footballguy
I think Kmet is a top 10 TE in the league. His usage was criminal. Every single Bears fan is screaming to get him more involved in the passing game. He makes the big catches when needed consistently.You're saying Kmet is the better player than Loveland?
I hope things are different next year, but I need to see it first.
Maybe you're right if that's your take. But man, you are in a very small minority thinking that.
And I said this in the Warren thread, but it would apply just as much if not more to Loveland for me
"If you're really keen on taking him early in a TEP, I'd be praying for the Bears to snag him. Obviously great draft capital, clear path to starting, creative OC (who we watched scheme LaPorta to the TE1 overall his rookie season) just two years ago. That would move the needle on Warren for me quite a bit."
And yeah, Id have to say Kmet is the much better player at the moment. Loveland needs to get some pro reps before I think differently.
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InDitkaWeTrust
Footballguy
This. The delta between Loveland and Kmet is not worth a 1st rounder IMO.I'd be stunned if Loveland looks much different than Kmet.You're saying Kmet is the better player than Loveland?
I hope things are different next year, but I need to see it first.
Maybe you're right if that's your take. But man, you are in a very small minority thinking that.
And I said this in the Warren thread, but it would apply just as much if not more to Loveland for me
"If you're really keen on taking him early in a TEP, I'd be praying for the Bears to snag him. Obviously great draft capital, clear path to starting, creative OC (who we watched scheme LaPorta to the TE1 overall his rookie season) just two years ago. That would move the needle on Warren for me quite a bit."
candian fantasy guy
Footballguy
Well I am going to go against the negative fans here and say Welcome to Chicago my friend!
I completely disagree that Kmet is a top 10 TE, time will tell.
I love that he is a great blocker with room to improve. Seems like a guy that could get moved around the formation a fair bit too. ++ if you ask me.
Bear Down
I completely disagree that Kmet is a top 10 TE, time will tell.
I love that he is a great blocker with room to improve. Seems like a guy that could get moved around the formation a fair bit too. ++ if you ask me.
Bear Down
socrates
Footballguy
Long-term, I love Chicago's addition of Loveland. I like Kmet, but Loveland is the superior talent. That said, there is a steep learning curve at TE, and Kmet is good enough to limit Loveland in the short-term. (We watched Dalton Knox do that to Dalton Kincaid, and this situation is not markedly dissimilar.) Moreover, this is a very crowded offense . No doubt Ben Johnson will seek to design plays to put the ball into Loveland's hands, but I worry we may not see the type of volume to make Loveland an elite TE fantasy producer in his rookie season. I believe in the talent, and I like the offense, and despite some potential growing pains, I will be investing in Loveland in Dynasty.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I think that's fair. I can see saying they should have looked elsewhere with their pick as it wasn't like TE was a screaming need for them. I was mainly shocked to see someone say Kmet is better. From the angle that the we haven't seen Loveland play in the NFL yet, sure I guess, but that applies to literally every single rookie.This. The delta between Loveland and Kmet is not worth a 1st rounder IMO.I'd be stunned if Loveland looks much different than Kmet.You're saying Kmet is the better player than Loveland?
I hope things are different next year, but I need to see it first.
Maybe you're right if that's your take. But man, you are in a very small minority thinking that.
And I said this in the Warren thread, but it would apply just as much if not more to Loveland for me
"If you're really keen on taking him early in a TEP, I'd be praying for the Bears to snag him. Obviously great draft capital, clear path to starting, creative OC (who we watched scheme LaPorta to the TE1 overall his rookie season) just two years ago. That would move the needle on Warren for me quite a bit."
Either BJ will find a way to use them both and be successful with it, or odds are Kmet is cut/traded next year. Only $3mil dead cap hit against a $9mil salary.
Hope Bears fans aren't already getting the torches ready lol. Got a young QB with extremely high upside yet IMO, a WR I think could easily be top 10 in the league by years end, the most desirable HC prospect of the past few years... let the man cook for a bit and see what he's serving by week 5.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
Yeah I think this is the right take
barackdhouse
Footballguy
I mean...when they add an explosive running back here in a few minutes, and perhaps another solid WR prospect as well, this offense might actually have a scary good future.
TheDirtyWord
Footballguy
I'm actually surprised at the Bears fan vitriol over this pick. I know my Bears buddies were salivating over the prospect of Tyler Warren, but don't you have to trust Ben Johnson here?
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Thanks for the response, but I deleted my post and decided to make it it's own thread, rather than get burried here.
ZWK
Footballguy
Michigan TE Colston Loveland EVERY 2024 Target & Touch
Every play where Loveland was targeted this year, in a 15 minute video. You have to go elsewhere to see his blocking, though.
Every play where Loveland was targeted this year, in a 15 minute video. You have to go elsewhere to see his blocking, though.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I can't see Loveland as a typical 10th overall selection. I guess that's partly due to what is perceived as a weak class. I think he's similar to LaPorte as a prospect and he was taken in the early 2nd. I like Warren more, but taking Loveland over him isn't crazy or anything.
Obviously, Ben Johnson isn't an idiot. He must have a lot of plans to run 12 personnel. While it's not a terrible pick, it just struck me as kinda odd. FF-wise, I'm not sure what to think. It's certainly not an ideal landing spot.
Obviously, Ben Johnson isn't an idiot. He must have a lot of plans to run 12 personnel. While it's not a terrible pick, it just struck me as kinda odd. FF-wise, I'm not sure what to think. It's certainly not an ideal landing spot.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
I think that's fair. I can see saying they should have looked elsewhere with their pick as it wasn't like TE was a screaming need for them. I was mainly shocked to see someone say Kmet is better. From the angle that the we haven't seen Loveland play in the NFL yet, sure I guess, but that applies to literally every single rookie.This. The delta between Loveland and Kmet is not worth a 1st rounder IMO.I'd be stunned if Loveland looks much different than Kmet.You're saying Kmet is the better player than Loveland?
I hope things are different next year, but I need to see it first.
Maybe you're right if that's your take. But man, you are in a very small minority thinking that.
And I said this in the Warren thread, but it would apply just as much if not more to Loveland for me
"If you're really keen on taking him early in a TEP, I'd be praying for the Bears to snag him. Obviously great draft capital, clear path to starting, creative OC (who we watched scheme LaPorta to the TE1 overall his rookie season) just two years ago. That would move the needle on Warren for me quite a bit."
Either BJ will find a way to use them both and be successful with it, or odds are Kmet is cut/traded next year. Only $3mil dead cap hit against a $9mil salary.
Hope Bears fans aren't already getting the torches ready lol. Got a young QB with extremely high upside yet IMO, a WR I think could easily be top 10 in the league by years end, the most desirable HC prospect of the past few years... let the man cook for a bit and see what he's serving by week 5.
Eagles are in the market for a TE and have a ton of picks this year and next year, might make good trade partners.
I think that may be more a Shane Waldron problem.
I'm surprised how much people hate the Loveland pick. Like, it wasn't ideal from a need perspective, but he's a better for than Warren would have been in my eyes, and I think EDGE/DT would have been a reach. Its not like they reached.
Good chance they run a lot of 2-TE sets next year, but Loveland's ceiling is sky high, like Kelce level.
Max Power
Footballguy
Kmet's splits were better with Waldron. After Brown took over Kmet was removed from the gameplan. I think it was mostly due to Caleb locking on Keenan Allen.
I like Loveland's talent and potential, but I also belive Kmet would have been a pro bowl level TE in a Johnson offense. Kmet is a very talented TE who just isn't utilized correctly.
#10 overall puts high expectations on Loveland. I really do hope he lives up to them.
barackdhouse
Footballguy
What if... and I'm just spitballing here... what if Loveland was the BPA on their board and it was and is as simple as that? Maybe need wasn't a factor at all. Maybe he is just scouted as being a stud and they simply pulled the trigger. If we're so fricking strong at TE already with Kmet then what's wrong with making a strength stronger.
Honestly I think that's all this was. BPA. Solid choice.
Honestly I think that's all this was. BPA. Solid choice.
Football Jones
Footballguy
The only way this makes sense is if Johnson's base offense is going to be 12 personnel. It's my favorite alignment. Not sure how often he ran it in Detroit, but I don't think it was very often. Maybe it was simply because he didn't have the 2nd horse.
BPA is kind of a misnomer, anyway. Nobody strictly adheres to their board. A more accurate description of BPA would be taking the best player among the biggest needs. TE wasn't a need on paper, but if BJ is big on 12 personnel, it makes a lot more sense.
BPA is kind of a misnomer, anyway. Nobody strictly adheres to their board. A more accurate description of BPA would be taking the best player among the biggest needs. TE wasn't a need on paper, but if BJ is big on 12 personnel, it makes a lot more sense.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
I thought 11 was the max you could play on offense
Johnson's base offense wasn't 12, but he also had Amon-Ra. You are not taking him off the field for a TE.
Football Jones
Footballguy
For sure. The Lions personnel didn't lend itself to 2-TE sets, but Johnson might love 12 personnel given he's building essentially a new offense.
The Loveland pick sure looks like that could be the case.
Burden now, so 11 personnel is more viable than 30 minutes ago.
I like Loveland, but that is a lot of weapons and mouths to feed. I doubt know how drafting Burden can't leave a sour taste for those excited about Loveland.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Good teams don't draft for need.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Ben Johnson throws the gauntlet down, challenges Bears roster to earn their keep
“What I’m going to be curious to see is what guys look like when the ball’s not in their hands on offense,” Johnson said to reporters on Saturday. “We have a lot of weapons. So, how are you going to run your route when you might not be No. 1 in the progression? How are you going to block for your teammate when he has the ball? Because when you do those things right, then as a coaching staff, we’re going to want to get you the ball a little bit more. So it all ties together.”
“Get comfortable being uncomfortable,” Johnson told reporters in January, on the message he had to his players. “The bar has been set higher than it’s ever been set before, and the only way for this team and for you as individual players to reach your potential is to be pushed and to be challenged.”
I think we should be prepared to have 0 clue how anything on this offense will shake out; and be comfortable with the fact it might take well into the regular season until we really find out.
My wild and baseless guess is if DJ Moore isn't traded (to me all his quotes really point to DJ Moore's poor attitude and work ethic last year, which was pretty widely called out in the community and shouldn't come as a shock to anyone), either Kmet or Loveland (or both) will wind up taking the hit. Moore and Odunze will be the primary WRs, Burden will work from the slot like he did 80% of the time in college. I guess there's a world where Burden is just super un-impressive and can't make it work and then run 12 personnel and Kmet and Loveland both get the work; but that seems like the longer percentage shot IMO.
“What I’m going to be curious to see is what guys look like when the ball’s not in their hands on offense,” Johnson said to reporters on Saturday. “We have a lot of weapons. So, how are you going to run your route when you might not be No. 1 in the progression? How are you going to block for your teammate when he has the ball? Because when you do those things right, then as a coaching staff, we’re going to want to get you the ball a little bit more. So it all ties together.”
“Get comfortable being uncomfortable,” Johnson told reporters in January, on the message he had to his players. “The bar has been set higher than it’s ever been set before, and the only way for this team and for you as individual players to reach your potential is to be pushed and to be challenged.”
I think we should be prepared to have 0 clue how anything on this offense will shake out; and be comfortable with the fact it might take well into the regular season until we really find out.
My wild and baseless guess is if DJ Moore isn't traded (to me all his quotes really point to DJ Moore's poor attitude and work ethic last year, which was pretty widely called out in the community and shouldn't come as a shock to anyone), either Kmet or Loveland (or both) will wind up taking the hit. Moore and Odunze will be the primary WRs, Burden will work from the slot like he did 80% of the time in college. I guess there's a world where Burden is just super un-impressive and can't make it work and then run 12 personnel and Kmet and Loveland both get the work; but that seems like the longer percentage shot IMO.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I don’t blame Moore for anything last year. His usage was just stupid. Both the nature and volume of usage made no sense.
candian fantasy guy
Footballguy
I am pretty sure he got a new deal, so yes, he deserves all the crap that is coming his way for poor ethics and attitude.
This sounds like a new direction for our Bears and I’m all in!
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I agree on the usage of he and Odunze and said as much here on the boards. But, pretty much everyone on offense had the same case to be made. No one else to my recollection acted the way Moore did. Just because he had the supposed "right" to act out/scream on the sidelines/obviously quit on routes and blocking assignments/walk of the field early.... doesn't mean he should. Character isn't defined by how you take good news and deal with rainbows and unicorns situations; it's how you handle the opposite. But that's just my opinion on the matter.
But ultimately neither of our opinions matter. Ben Johnson's does. So if Moore turns it around and becomes a team player, he'll likely still a top WR for the Bears and fantasy owners.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Going TE was interesting, but I'm amazed they passed on Warren if they were going to take a TE.
Yes, I realize there were some people who had Loveland above Warren.
Yes, I realize there were some people who had Loveland above Warren.
MAC_32
Footballguy
Week 1? Yeah, probably. I bet at least one of Loveland or Burden pass Rome by season's end though. Maybe both. The new boss, who came from a team in the same division, saw what that 1st rounder did last year and his first order of business was getting two new pass catchers.
Max Power
Footballguy
According to Chicago Media Ben Johnson preferred Loveland because he was more fluid and better at getting open. They felt Warren had too many of his touches "manufactured" where Penn St moved him around to get a mismatch. In the NFL those mismatches aren't as easy to come by while Loveland's route running translates much better.
Football Jones
Footballguy
I think a good OC can still get mismatches with Warren. The said, I can see the traits that Johnson obviously liked with Loveland.
Max Power
Footballguy
I was all over the Bears thread hyping the things I thought Johnson could do with Warren. I was disappointed the Bears went Loveland. However, when I hear things like Johnson wants to create an offense that has multiple people open every play vs one that schemes up a mismatch for a TE, I get excited for the possibilities.
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
Totally agree that if he behaves that way with Ben Johnson it will not turn out well.
Also agree that he should have acted like a leader. But……anyone who has ever worked for a moron knows that most people have a breaking point.
Football Jones
Footballguy
Sounds like Loveland was more of scheme fit. It'll be interesting to see how their careers shake out.
pinkstapler
Footballguy
Very fair. I still occasionally pop in an old lab here to look at the paper towel dispenser I put my fist through year 2 of working here. Now about 15 years in I've learned you can outlive bad managers as they last about as long as bad coaches. Only difference here is instead of getting fired, they seem to get promoted
pinkstapler
Footballguy
I can see this side of it. I can also see the side where what seemed like the Bears biggest offensive need was RB and they got sniped twice, the first time on Jeanty which was probably less of a surprise. But I think the Pats taking Henderson was much more of a surprise, and legit one pick before them. And as a result they just went BPA; they are certainly professionals who prepare for this stuff and probably have several back up plans especially through the first few rounds, but 7 minutes is a short turn around to work out a trade back you feel you're getting fair value on. And then they did start trading down shortly after that pick.
Ben Johnson did bring over one of the leagues top and more well respected WRs coaches with him in Antwaan Randle-El who he obviously appreciated working with in his time in Detroit. And this is what he said just a week ago. "Last year everyone had Marvin Harrison Jr. No. 1... then Malik Nabers... I had Rome No. 1." Which wasn't the top consensus opinion, but he wasn't on an island feeling that way either. Harmon is one example who had Odunze over Nabers pre-draft, and after MHJ landed with Kyler, pretty much had it a toss up between Odunze and him.
Not saying I'm right and/or you're wrong. And I'm pretty sure you're an actual Bears fan, so I wouldn't try to challenge you on knowing/watching this team. But it just feels like low odds that they aren't going to try to invest time in and scheme work for a 2nd year rookie with top 10 of the first round draft capital who the WR coach BJ brought with him from his previous regime has publicly heaped praise on already. Especially through the lens of all the other comments Ben Johnson has made pre and post draft which seem directly targeted at the Vets of the team like DJ Moore about lack of effort and poor attitude. There were definitely some aspects Odunze needs to work on from last year, but those two issues were never anything I saw watching them play.
If anything, I felt as though while some of the offensive players waned over the course of the season, Odunze's play and technique improved. Going by Harmons in-season charting, through week 12 among rookies Odunze success rates were 4th best against man coverage and tied for 4th best against press. He was 8th against zone, but still metrically above average compared to the entire NFL and had over twice as many attempts there as any rookie ahead of him (which I'd go back to complaints about how the OC was using him and really all the WRs last year).
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