TE Jimmy Graham, CHI (4 Viewers)

[Grahamburn]

Well, I see both sides of it. But I can certainly see a team like a NE or Seattle giving it consideration. As others have pointed out, they have a very late 1st this year and will again next year. Graham is still young, and very much

in his prime. The money seems to be the biggest issue, but the cap is growing to around $140 mil next year and $150 mil the following year, so a new contract for Graham could escalate each year to match that. That, and the

"a team isn't going to cough up two first rounders". RGIII, anyone? Yes, I realize we're talking two different positions, but if your team is missing only one or two pieces.... I mean hell, this is what the Raiders got for Jon Gruden, a COACH!

1st round/21st overall, 2002

2nd round/53rd overall, 2002

1st round/32nd overall, 2003

2nd round/33rd overall, 2004

Which turned into Philip Buchanon, Napoleon Harris, Tyler Brayton, and Jake Grove.

 

[False Start]

sorry, but I don't ever see a player being traded for 2 1sts and a huge contract

Wasn't Harvin traded for one 2013 1st, a 2013 7th and a mid round pick this year then signed a huge contract? Has Graham not done more and proven more?

yeah, buts that still not 2 1sts. I think the league values a player like Harvin more than we do because he can score from WR/RB/KR/PR, but even still they won the SB without him and its a good reminder to the league why trades like that aren't all that good.

Has Harvin ever scored 16 times in a season and caught 99 balls in another and have Grahams kind of consistency? To say people value Harvin more bothers me, because Harvin has upside and talent but has never lived up to the elite hype, Graham has.

 

[Sinrman]

"a team isn't going to cough up two first rounders". RGIII, anyone? Yes, I realize we're talking two different positions, but if your team is missing only one or two pieces.... I mean hell, this is what the Raiders got for Jon Gruden, a COACH!

I got no comment for the Gruden transaction but there is a big difference between the RG3 deal and any potential Graham deal. If we are talking about giving up two #1's for Graham you'd have to do that and then pay him top dollar at his position, probably the top dollar. In RG3's case it's a little different because while he also cost two #1's he got rookie slotted which means he cost a fraction of what you typically have to pay franchise QB's.

That's why I tend to side with Peter King, as much as I hate siding with him. First round picks are a chance to lock in cheap high end labor. Losing the chance to lock in two cheap high end talents and also pay top dollar to a TE is a huge swing to a teams cap. The only way it would make any sense to me really is a team that has a back end first round pick this year, feels good about it being a back end first round pick next season, has a TE or playmaker need and the cap room to not only pull it off but do so comfortably. Turns out most of the teams with a ton of cap space have high picks this year so that makes it more challenging.

I don't really see Graham leaving the Saints, in fact I've never really even considered it as remotely being possible it' just a matter of him getting franchised out or a long term deal getting made.

I'm taking a guess that the Saints are handling this exactly as they should. Franchise him while they work on a deal and hold the TE franchise pay as leverage to try and meet a common ground on a long term deal. Graham would run considerable risk if he rejects a long term contract that pays him substantially more then the TE designation and lost. It's his main leverage right now and if he plays that card and loses there is nothing that would prevent the Saints from franchising him out the next few seasons at a fraction of what they likely are offering him on a long term deal. Which is also why I think we'll see Graham end up accepting a long term deal before the TE/WR battle is appealed.

I hear ya. But if I'm a team that is a (dynamic) piece or two away from a likely Super Bowl, I have to give it serious consideration. No rookie that I draft at #30 or #31 will get me the dynamic play that Jimmy Graham will, nor will they likely for a few years...

 

[Sinrman]

Well, I see both sides of it. But I can certainly see a team like a NE or Seattle giving it consideration. As others have pointed out, they have a very late 1st this year and will again next year. Graham is still young, and very much

in his prime. The money seems to be the biggest issue, but the cap is growing to around $140 mil next year and $150 mil the following year, so a new contract for Graham could escalate each year to match that. That, and the

"a team isn't going to cough up two first rounders". RGIII, anyone? Yes, I realize we're talking two different positions, but if your team is missing only one or two pieces.... I mean hell, this is what the Raiders got for Jon Gruden, a COACH!

1st round/21st overall, 2002

2nd round/53rd overall, 2002

1st round/32nd overall, 2003

2nd round/33rd overall, 2004

Which turned into Philip Buchanon, Napoleon Harris, Tyler Brayton, and Jake Grove.

Hey, I can't help it if the Raider front office are a bunch of morons...

Signed,

A Lions fan -- a similar team led by a bunch of morons

 

[Sinrman]

Excerpt from Peter King's On Further Review column:

The fate of Jimmy Graham.

Lots of discussion Monday about what will happen to tight end Jimmy Graham in free agency. It’s an intriguing question. Will someone, probably picking near the end of the first round, surrender first-round picks in 2014 and 2015, plus make Graham, 28, the highest-paid tight end in NFL history (at $12 million or $13 million per year)?

First, I would never do it. Let’s say Seattle—with a tight end need—was interested in Graham. The Seahawks have about $15 million in cap room, which shouldn’t be the big reason why they would either sign Graham or not sign him. Remember the important thing: In one year, three of the top players on the roster—Russell Wilson, Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas—are all eligible to negotiate new deals. Sherman and Thomas would be free agents; Wilson would have a year left on his rookie deal but likely will seek to re-do a contract he has vastly outperformed. The question is not whether Seattle could do the deal for Graham; the question is, with all the big-money deals coming due, whether Seattle GM John Schneider would be smart to sign a player who has hardly been at his best in the postseason, which is where Seattle expects to play for years. (Graham caught one ball for eight yards in his last six playoff quarters of the postseason just past.)

Finally, there is the question of salary management for very good players. Those two first-round picks likely would be key contributors for several years, and Seattle would have them at a team-friendly average of about $1.7 million per year. So you’re not only adding a salary of $12 million per year in Graham; you’re subtracting two top prospects, likely starters, at a favorable salary. Graham would be great, and the Seahawks or Patriots or another team with a crying tight end need would love having him … but the cost is excessive, if you ask me.

He makes great points about the Seahawks. They have about one final year before the #### hits the fan and big contracts are due (Wilson + a number of others, especially on that defense). They are looking long term, and locking into Jimmy Graham for 4+ years at a high price tag would leave them little wiggle room. I get that, so I'd say scratch Seattle from the list. But other teams with cap room short term and long term... certainly should be intrigued at least.

 

[KellysHeroes]

sorry, but I don't ever see a player being traded for 2 1sts and a huge contract

Wasn't Harvin traded for one 2013 1st, a 2013 7th and a mid round pick this year then signed a huge contract? Has Graham not done more and proven more?

yeah, buts that still not 2 1sts. I think the league values a player like Harvin more than we do because he can score from WR/RB/KR/PR, but even still they won the SB without him and its a good reminder to the league why trades like that aren't all that good.

Has Harvin ever scored 16 times in a season and caught 99 balls in another and have Grahams kind of consistency? To say people value Harvin more bothers me, because Harvin has upside and talent but has never lived up to the elite hype, Graham has.

I was just pointing out that their values are hard to compare. Whichever one an NFL GM values more is in the eye of the beholder. I would rather have Graham myself.

 

[fantasycurse42]

If I was Graham, I'm not playing until I had a long term deal or at least the WR tag... The guy is dominant and deserves to be paid.

 

[fantasycurse42]

Also, at this stage, the OP should remove the question mark from the headline... Prob should change it to an exclamation point too!

 

[Grahamburn]

Well, I see both sides of it. But I can certainly see a team like a NE or Seattle giving it consideration. As others have pointed out, they have a very late 1st this year and will again next year. Graham is still young, and very much

in his prime. The money seems to be the biggest issue, but the cap is growing to around $140 mil next year and $150 mil the following year, so a new contract for Graham could escalate each year to match that. That, and the

"a team isn't going to cough up two first rounders". RGIII, anyone? Yes, I realize we're talking two different positions, but if your team is missing only one or two pieces.... I mean hell, this is what the Raiders got for Jon Gruden, a COACH!

1st round/21st overall, 2002

2nd round/53rd overall, 2002

1st round/32nd overall, 2003

2nd round/33rd overall, 2004

Which turned into Philip Buchanon, Napoleon Harris, Tyler Brayton, and Jake Grove.

Hey, I can't help it if the Raider front office are a bunch of morons...

Signed,

A Lions fan -- a similar team led by a bunch of morons

I just find it humorous. I thought it was so ridiculous at the time to give that much up for a coach. The Bucs won the Super Bowl, and the Raiders used their stockpile of picks for a bunch of of schlubs. One of which, Buchanon, ended up having a couple nice seasons with Tampa.

 

[ghostguy123]

If I was Graham, I'm not playing until I had a long term deal or at least the WR tag... The guy is dominant and deserves to be paid.

If I am Graham, I negotiate a nice deal making me the highest paid TE in the league, but not by a HUGE amount more, because then you run the risk of a holdout and making less money in the longrun.

But then again, I am a reasonable person and not a money grubbing ####. Not saying Graham is at all, just saying what I would do.

Also, if I was Mr graham, I wouldnt be in a hurry to do anything. It's March 4th. But I would have my agent making a serious call at least once a week the next couple months.

Holding out and/or not accepting a huge deal is a mistake. I always look back at the Christian Laettner thing a while back. He was offered something like 5 years 50 million or something like that. He said no because he wanted more, then had some bad leg injury (achilles) like a week later, ended up doing some 3 years 15 million dollar deal with someone.

Yes, get paid, but no need to hold out for absolute top dollar. Too much risk for me when the current offer more than sets you and several other people up for life.

 

[ghostguy123]

All that said, again, 99% confident graham is lining up week 1 for the Saints and has a deal through about 2018

 

[KellysHeroes]

If I was Graham, I'm not playing until I had a long term deal or at least the WR tag... The guy is dominant and deserves to be paid.

If I am Graham, I negotiate a nice deal making me the highest paid TE in the league, but not by a HUGE amount more, because then you run the risk of a holdout and making less money in the longrun.

But then again, I am a reasonable person and not a money grubbing ####. Not saying Graham is at all, just saying what I would do.

Also, if I was Mr graham, I wouldnt be in a hurry to do anything. It's March 4th. But I would have my agent making a serious call at least once a week the next couple months.

Holding out and/or not accepting a huge deal is a mistake. I always look back at the Christian Laettner thing a while back. He was offered something like 5 years 50 million or something like that. He said no because he wanted more, then had some bad leg injury (achilles) like a week later, ended up doing some 3 years 15 million dollar deal with someone.

Yes, get paid, but no need to hold out for absolute top dollar. Too much risk for me when the current offer more than sets you and several other people up for life.

what? Just played the contract out, no one better in the league at you position... no way should he step on the field until he gets top dollar.

 

[ghostguy123]

Holding out could easily assure he does NOT get top dollar.

 

[Grahamburn]

Holding out could easily assure he does NOT get top dollar.

When was the last time a player holding out didn't get at or near the contract the were seeking? Players hold out because it works more often than not.

 

[KellysHeroes]

also, hes 27.. this is going to be his only only big contract; just another reason why he should break the bank.

 

[fantasycurse42]

also, hes 27.. this is going to be his only only big contract; just another reason why he should break the bank.

He's also unstoppable & should be paid like an unstoppable weapon. IDK why they don't just lock him up anyways.

 

[Soulfly3]

Smells like the Saints really want two firsts for Graham to me.

More aware of his injuries than anyone else and perhaps dont want the risk?

Theyd likely love 2 firsts and getting that contract off the books

 

[Faust]

Rotoworld:

A Packers official says the idea of his team going after Jimmy Graham is "dumb beyond dumb...won't happen."
The Saints used the non-exclusive franchise tag on Graham, which means other teams can negotiate with him. If he gets an offer, New Orleans will have the chance to match. Of course, that new team would have to both pay Graham and give up two first-round picks. Despite Graham's MVP-caliber ability, most teams will balk at that price tag.

Related: Packers

Source: Bleacher Report

 

[Doug B]

If I was Graham, I'm not playing until I had a long term deal or at least the WR tag... The guy is dominant and deserves to be paid.

No. The only way Graham would deserve $12 million/year is if he were able to consistently abuse a Richard Sherman + Earl Thomas double-team all day, every day. Even when hobbled.

But he's proven to be stoppable by physical coverage. Smaller guys (esp Aqib Talib and the Seattle defenders) hold his arms and completely neutralize Graham. That film has gotten around ... hard to see Graham sniffing his 2011-2013 stats ever again. Maybe he can learn to consistently beat hyper-physical coverage, but I'd want him to prove it before I paid him top-5 WR money.

...

Something no one's really considering: the Saints willl have to pay elite DE money to Cameron Jordan one year from now. Signing Graham to WR money this year makes it impossible to keep Jordan past 2014, unless Drew Brees restructures a very deep cut into his 2015 salary.

 

[Doug B]

More aware of his injuries than anyone else and perhaps dont want the risk?

That's something else few are considering: while Graham misses few games, he is gets hurt a lot and is often hobbled.

 

[Doug B]

also, hes 27.. this is going to be his only only big contract; just another reason why he should break the bank.

He's also unstoppable & should be paid like an unstoppable weapon. IDK why they don't just lock him up anyways.

Camerion Jordan is more important to the franchise than Jimmy Graham. Had Graham lit up the Patriots and Seahawks last year, that might be different.

Just how many huge contracts do you think one franchise can support?

EDIT: Also, you write that he is "unstoppable". It might looks like that from a fantasy perspective, but rest assured that some teams know exactly how to stop Jimmy Graham. And the word will spread.

 

[fridayfrenzy]

If I was Graham, I'm not playing until I had a long term deal or at least the WR tag... The guy is dominant and deserves to be paid.

No. The only way Graham would deserve $12 million/year is if he were able to consistently abuse a Richard Sherman + Earl Thomas double-team all day, every day. Even when hobbled.

But he's proven to be stoppable by physical coverage. Smaller guys (esp Aqib Talib and the Seattle defenders) hold his arms and completely neutralize Graham. That film has gotten around ... hard to see Graham sniffing his 2011-2013 stats ever again. Maybe he can learn to consistently beat hyper-physical coverage, but I'd want him to prove it before I paid him top-5 WR money.

I'd hardly call Talib and Seattle defenders "smaller guys"

It seems you are assuming that teams can just replicate what the Seattle defense did. As if now the book is out on the Denver Broncos offense and they can be stopped cause Seattle did it. Seattle was a top 10 defense in NFL history by many analytics, and shut down the greatest offense in NFL history. To emulate Seattle's defense takes a lot more than trying to copy their scheme, so to say the "book is out" on shutting down Jimmy Graham is hog wash.

 

[Rockchild]

All this seems like much ado about nothing at this point. If this is late August and things haven't progressed then there is something to be concerned with but right now this is just negotiations from both sides. The non-exclusive tag, IMO, can help set the market and I'd be surprised if he gets $12 million but closer to Gronk's deal with a slight increase for 'inflation', lol, seems more likely. This is just business with the team using the tag to get their cap money in order and I'm sure things will work out before mandatory camp breaks. If Graham misses some OTA's etc I don't think it's a big deal.

 

[saintfool]

If I was Graham, I'm not playing until I had a long term deal or at least the WR tag... The guy is dominant and deserves to be paid.

No. The only way Graham would deserve $12 million/year is if he were able to consistently abuse a Richard Sherman + Earl Thomas double-team all day, every day. Even when hobbled.

But he's proven to be stoppable by physical coverage. Smaller guys (esp Aqib Talib and the Seattle defenders) hold his arms and completely neutralize Graham. That film has gotten around ... hard to see Graham sniffing his 2011-2013 stats ever again. Maybe he can learn to consistently beat hyper-physical coverage, but I'd want him to prove it before I paid him top-5 WR money.

...

Something no one's really considering: the Saints willl have to pay elite DE money to Cameron Jordan one year from now. Signing Graham to WR money this year makes it impossible to keep Jordan past 2014, unless Drew Brees restructures a very deep cut into his 2015 salary.

Salary cap is supposed to increase substantially the year after next (2015 season). I think they might be able to keep it together,

 

[Doug B]

I'd hardly call Talib and Seattle defenders "smaller guys"

It seems you are assuming that teams can just replicate what the Seattle defense did. As if now the book is out on the Denver Broncos offense and they can be stopped cause Seattle did it. Seattle was a top 10 defense in NFL history by many analytics, and shut down the greatest offense in NFL history. To emulate Seattle's defense takes a lot more than trying to copy their scheme, so to say the "book is out" on shutting down Jimmy Graham is hog wash.

I meant "smaller guys" as in "substantially smaller than Jimmy Graham."

Seattle and New England defenders weren't relying on global defensive schemes to stop Jimmy Graham. All they were doing is have the man on Graham grab hold of one of Graham's arms or hands when the ball is in the air. No special defensive talent or scheme is required -- you only need someone that can stay within arm's reach of Graham for the better part of a pass route.

This type of defense is not Graham-specfic, either. Refs in 2013 either didn't see it or didn't think it rose to the level of interference. But if it continues to be a viable pass-defense tool for individual defenders league-wide, players like Graham will have to figure out some way to counter.

 

[saintfool]

I'd hardly call Talib and Seattle defenders "smaller guys"

It seems you are assuming that teams can just replicate what the Seattle defense did. As if now the book is out on the Denver Broncos offense and they can be stopped cause Seattle did it. Seattle was a top 10 defense in NFL history by many analytics, and shut down the greatest offense in NFL history. To emulate Seattle's defense takes a lot more than trying to copy their scheme, so to say the "book is out" on shutting down Jimmy Graham is hog wash.

I meant "smaller guys" as in "substantially smaller than Jimmy Graham."

Seattle and New England defenders weren't relying on global defensive schemes to stop Jimmy Graham. All they were doing is have the man on Graham grab hold of one of Graham's arms or hands when the ball is in the air. No special defensive talent or scheme is required -- you only need someone that can stay within arm's reach of Graham for the better part of a pass route.

This type of defense is not Graham-specfic, either. Refs in 2013 either didn't see it or didn't think it rose to the level of interference. But if it continues to be a viable pass-defense tool for individual defenders league-wide, players like Graham will have to figure out some way to counter.

like actually make a play on the ball? instead of waiting for it to come to him?

he's not especially bright from what i gather but his on-field IQ is even more deplorable.

 

[ghostguy123]

So it appears MANY in this thread if put in Grahams position would hold out and risk who know what kind of ridiculous things that happen to people on a daily basis, in order to get maybe an extra 3-4 million spread over about 5 years, rather than take a huge deal, just slightly less huge than what he will be holding out for?

When you can get 50 million now, is it really worth it to wait several months to try and get 55?

Again, I am not saying he won't get it by holding out and waiting till like august or september..................but my god, there is no way I do that when I can take slightly less NOW.

Even the agent should be pushing him to do it rather than risk his own commission.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'd hardly call Talib and Seattle defenders "smaller guys"

It seems you are assuming that teams can just replicate what the Seattle defense did. As if now the book is out on the Denver Broncos offense and they can be stopped cause Seattle did it. Seattle was a top 10 defense in NFL history by many analytics, and shut down the greatest offense in NFL history. To emulate Seattle's defense takes a lot more than trying to copy their scheme, so to say the "book is out" on shutting down Jimmy Graham is hog wash.

I meant "smaller guys" as in "substantially smaller than Jimmy Graham."

Seattle and New England defenders weren't relying on global defensive schemes to stop Jimmy Graham. All they were doing is have the man on Graham grab hold of one of Graham's arms or hands when the ball is in the air. No special defensive talent or scheme is required -- you only need someone that can stay within arm's reach of Graham for the better part of a pass route.

This type of defense is not Graham-specfic, either. Refs in 2013 either didn't see it or didn't think it rose to the level of interference. But if it continues to be a viable pass-defense tool for individual defenders league-wide, players like Graham will have to figure out some way to counter.

like actually make a play on the ball? instead of waiting for it to come to him?

he's not especially bright from what i gather but his on-field IQ is even more deplorable.

I think Graham can definitely make a play on the ball.

This was a beautiful play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCA-PEi6SRg

But let's remember he is after all a tight end, he's not a WR, whether it's putting a CB on him (Talib) or whether it's the hack-a-Shaq routine the problem is the Saints' inability to make the other teams pay by going to other options last year. The backup TE's, the screens to Pierre and Sproles and especially the other WRs just weren't happening. With the defense the Saints had this year they should have been 15-1 considering how effective their offense has been in the past, and this was especially true on the road - anyone have an explanation for that?

 

[KellysHeroes]

also, hes 27.. this is going to be his only only big contract; just another reason why he should break the bank.

He's also unstoppable & should be paid like an unstoppable weapon. IDK why they don't just lock him up anyways.

Camerion Jordan is more important to the franchise than Jimmy Graham. Had Graham lit up the Patriots and Seahawks last year, that might be different.

Just how many huge contracts do you think one franchise can support?

EDIT: Also, you write that he is "unstoppable". It might looks like that from a fantasy perspective, but rest assured that some teams know exactly how to stop Jimmy Graham. And the word will spread.

DE is always harder to hit on than TE. Sometimes I think TE production is a lot of system and less of player.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

also, hes 27.. this is going to be his only only big contract; just another reason why he should break the bank.

He's also unstoppable & should be paid like an unstoppable weapon. IDK why they don't just lock him up anyways.

Camerion Jordan is more important to the franchise than Jimmy Graham. Had Graham lit up the Patriots and Seahawks last year, that might be different.

Just how many huge contracts do you think one franchise can support?

EDIT: Also, you write that he is "unstoppable". It might looks like that from a fantasy perspective, but rest assured that some teams know exactly how to stop Jimmy Graham. And the word will spread.

I don't know about that last bit - the two teams that were most effective on him were the Seahawks and Pats, no shame there whatsoever.

 

[saintfool]

I'd hardly call Talib and Seattle defenders "smaller guys"

It seems you are assuming that teams can just replicate what the Seattle defense did. As if now the book is out on the Denver Broncos offense and they can be stopped cause Seattle did it. Seattle was a top 10 defense in NFL history by many analytics, and shut down the greatest offense in NFL history. To emulate Seattle's defense takes a lot more than trying to copy their scheme, so to say the "book is out" on shutting down Jimmy Graham is hog wash.

I meant "smaller guys" as in "substantially smaller than Jimmy Graham."

Seattle and New England defenders weren't relying on global defensive schemes to stop Jimmy Graham. All they were doing is have the man on Graham grab hold of one of Graham's arms or hands when the ball is in the air. No special defensive talent or scheme is required -- you only need someone that can stay within arm's reach of Graham for the better part of a pass route.

This type of defense is not Graham-specfic, either. Refs in 2013 either didn't see it or didn't think it rose to the level of interference. But if it continues to be a viable pass-defense tool for individual defenders league-wide, players like Graham will have to figure out some way to counter.

like actually make a play on the ball? instead of waiting for it to come to him?

he's not especially bright from what i gather but his on-field IQ is even more deplorable.

I think Graham can definitely make a play on the ball.

This was a beautiful play:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pCA-PEi6SRg

But let's remember he is after all a tight end, he's not a WR, whether it's putting a CB on him (Talib) or whether it's the hack-a-Shaq routine the problem is the Saints' inability to make the other teams pay by going to other options last year. The backup TE's, the screens to Pierre and Sproles and especially the other WRs just weren't happening. With the defense the Saints had this year they should have been 15-1 considering how effective their offense has been in the past, and this was especially true on the road - anyone have an explanation for that?

i won't disagree here. some of it is squarely on Brees in that he has his favorites and that can be to the point of myopia. the superbowl run made it clear that there was a recipe for effective playcalling. some of the personnel on offense are gone or in decline. i'm hoping a player like Stills can really emerge and take some of the pressure off Graham and Colston. as much as i like Pierre (and over the years i have been his #1 fan), i think he's showing age and/or the limitations to his game. while i would miss his leadership, i think a shaking up of the offense is definitely in order. whether it is robinson or ingram, i don't really care but one of those guys needs to emerge to balance out the offense.

 

[Doug B]

Someone over at saintsreport.com posted this from the site Over The Cap:

The Leverage Factor

The NFL is a business and between owners looking to maximize profits and in turn maximize chances of winning via strong salary cap management, players like Graham are the ones who fall victim to the system in place. Players who are not drafted highly are not rewarded for strong play during their early careers. Some positions are protected from the Franchise tag, but Graham’s is not. If anything it is one hindered by the tag.

No team in the NFL is going to give up two first round draft picks for a Tight End. Actually, other than a Quarterback I don’t know of any position that a team would give up two first round picks for. Graham is essentially locked in and not in a good way. A few weeks ago we would have considered the tag to severely compromise the salary cap strapped Saints, but with a jump of $7 million over the initial projections the tag pretty much was paid for and with an expected increase of $10 million in 2015 the Saints are big winners.

Provided that the league determines that Graham is a Tight End and not a Wide Receiver his salary under the franchise tag will be $7.035 million. If tagged again the following season it will likely be $8.442 million. For Graham that would equal $15.477 million in salary over two years. As a point of reference Antonio Gates earned nearly $21 million in his first two new money years. So the franchise tag situation is going to cost Graham millions of dollars if he would not come down to a reasonable salary for the position.

Furthermore if things did play out that way you are looking at Graham being ready to turn the corner to 30 when his franchise tag period with the Saints would end. Would he break the bank at that point? Probably not. He would need to earn around least $19.6 million in the 2016 and 2017 years to match Rob Gronkowski’s four year salary on a contract signed in 2012.

The bottom line is Graham is never going to get what he wants if he tries to break the Saints in a contract negotiation. Graham had more leverage before the salary cap increases became known and now that leverage he had looks to be gone. The Saints have everything on their side to get him to take a deal that makes him the highest paid but not by a large margin. The Saints have dug their heels in before and will be expected to do the same here.

 

[Doug B]

I don't know about that last bit - the two teams that were most effective on him were the Seahawks and Pats, no shame there whatsoever.

I don't think it takes Seattle- or New England-level talent to do the Hack-a-Shaq against Jimmy Graham.

 

[John 14:6]

I don't know about that last bit - the two teams that were most effective on him were the Seahawks and Pats, no shame there whatsoever.

I don't think it takes Seattle- or New England-level talent to do the Hack-a-Shaq against Jimmy Graham.

With the NFL's desire to increase offense, I'm hoping the refs will limit that this year...

 

[saintfool]

I don't know about that last bit - the two teams that were most effective on him were the Seahawks and Pats, no shame there whatsoever.

I don't think it takes Seattle- or New England-level talent to do the Hack-a-Shaq against Jimmy Graham.

Defenses seem to be daring the officials to throw the flag especially early in the game. It's smart coaching by Carroll, I think, as they have very little to lose in the first quarter or so of the game. Once the precedent has been set by what the officials will allow then the defense can adjust accordingly. This is even more critical in the playoffs.

 

[Faust]

Jimmy Graham sends out tweet bashing Saints offseason

 

[Soulfly3]

Jimmy Graham sends out tweet bashing Saints offseason

Well he ain't getting paid for his brains.

 

[ghostguy123]

But when he gets a nice 5 year deal, he will say they are geniuses.

Really though, that tweet is rather harmless. He didnt wanna see some guys leave, big whoop.

But really he is probable moreso just talking about himself.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

What stops a team like Carolina from signing him?

 

[Soulfly3]

What stops a team like Carolina from signing him?

Two firsts. For starters

 

[Faust]

What stops a team like Carolina from signing him?

Two firsts. For starters

Graham seeking to be paid like a top WR with some lingering questions about his disappearance in the playoffs?

The fact that this draft class is seen as a deeper pool of talent with the record number of underclassmen who declared, and that with the current CBA in place you have those players locked up cheap for a few years.

The Panthers are a logical guess, as they need offensive weapons for Cam and Steve Smith could be on his way out.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

What stops a team like Carolina from signing him?

Two firsts. For starters

I knew that but I cant wrap my head around why that would stop them. They pick late for starters and with the addition of Graham they'll more then likely pick even later next season. They NEED another weapon in the worst way and signing him may put a bullet in a division rival altogether. Draft picks still have to be made and I would wager a decent amount that N.O. wouldnt get a Graham caliber player at any position with those 2 first round picks.

Just me thinking out loud

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What stops a team like Carolina from signing him?

Two firsts. For starters

I knew that but I cant wrap my head around why that would stop them. They pick late for starters and with the addition of Graham they'll more then likely pick even later next season. They NEED another weapon in the worst way and signing him may put a bullet in a division rival altogether. Draft picks still have to be made and I would wager a decent amount that N.O. wouldnt get a Graham caliber player at any position with those 2 first round picks.

Just me thinking out loud

The Saints can still match; I think they're maybe possibly potential somehow kinda willing to let Graham go, but not to the Panthers, in-division, see them twice a year.

Plus they already have Olsen.

 

[cstu]

What stops a team like Carolina from signing him?

Two firsts. For starters

I knew that but I cant wrap my head around why that would stop them. They pick late for starters and with the addition of Graham they'll more then likely pick even later next season. They NEED another weapon in the worst way and signing him may put a bullet in a division rival altogether. Draft picks still have to be made and I would wager a decent amount that N.O. wouldnt get a Graham caliber player at any position with those 2 first round picks.

Just me thinking out loud

The Saints can still match; I think they're maybe possibly potential somehow kinda willing to let Graham go, but not to the Panthers, in-division, see them twice a year.

Plus they already have Olsen.

Plus the league has a gentleman's agreement.

 

[Bigboy10182000]

What stops a team like Carolina from signing him?

Two firsts. For starters

I knew that but I cant wrap my head around why that would stop them. They pick late for starters and with the addition of Graham they'll more then likely pick even later next season. They NEED another weapon in the worst way and signing him may put a bullet in a division rival altogether. Draft picks still have to be made and I would wager a decent amount that N.O. wouldnt get a Graham caliber player at any position with those 2 first round picks.

Just me thinking out loud

The Saints can still match; I think they're maybe possibly potential somehow kinda willing to let Graham go, but not to the Panthers, in-division, see them twice a year.

Plus they already have Olsen.

I think if you're Carolina you have to make them match. Jimmy has also played outside a lot so keeping Olsen would be part of the plan. New Orleans is almost in cap hell and something like this would really force their hand.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

What stops a team like Carolina from signing him?

Two firsts. For starters

I knew that but I cant wrap my head around why that would stop them. They pick late for starters and with the addition of Graham they'll more then likely pick even later next season. They NEED another weapon in the worst way and signing him may put a bullet in a division rival altogether. Draft picks still have to be made and I would wager a decent amount that N.O. wouldnt get a Graham caliber player at any position with those 2 first round picks.

Just me thinking out loud

The Saints can still match; I think they're maybe possibly potential somehow kinda willing to let Graham go, but not to the Panthers, in-division, see them twice a year.

Plus they already have Olsen.

Plus the league has a gentleman's agreement.

Ha, yeah, then there's that.

 

[KellysHeroes]

What stops a team like Carolina from signing him?

Two firsts. For starters

I knew that but I cant wrap my head around why that would stop them. They pick late for starters and with the addition of Graham they'll more then likely pick even later next season. They NEED another weapon in the worst way and signing him may put a bullet in a division rival altogether. Draft picks still have to be made and I would wager a decent amount that N.O. wouldnt get a Graham caliber player at any position with those 2 first round picks.

Just me thinking out loud

The Saints can still match; I think they're maybe possibly potential somehow kinda willing to let Graham go, but not to the Panthers, in-division, see them twice a year.

Plus they already have Olsen.

Plus the league has a gentleman's agreement.

Ha, yeah, then there's that.

and they will fine each other if its broken. Ask the Redskins and Cowboys when they broke the gentlemen's agreement during the uncapped yr, something that should of been investigated.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

What stops a team like Carolina from signing him?

Two firsts. For starters

I knew that but I cant wrap my head around why that would stop them. They pick late for starters and with the addition of Graham they'll more then likely pick even later next season. They NEED another weapon in the worst way and signing him may put a bullet in a division rival altogether. Draft picks still have to be made and I would wager a decent amount that N.O. wouldnt get a Graham caliber player at any position with those 2 first round picks.

Just me thinking out loud

The Saints can still match; I think they're maybe possibly potential somehow kinda willing to let Graham go, but not to the Panthers, in-division, see them twice a year.

Plus they already have Olsen.

I think if you're Carolina you have to make them match. Jimmy has also played outside a lot so keeping Olsen would be part of the plan. New Orleans is almost in cap hell and something like this would really force their hand.

Exactly. All the more reason to do it.

 

[Faust]

Graham deal likely before April 22 grievance deadline

 

[Faust]

The Jimmy Graham dilemma