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TE Luke Schoonmaker, DAL (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Faust
- Start date
dipandglide
Footballguy
I'd imagine so. Ferguson looked good in a limited role last year too. He's a decent value in TE premium or start 2 TE leagues.
League Champion
Footballguy
Schoonmaker is very limited, Nothing more than an extra lineman.
"Good NFL prospect, again, to help in the run game here but not anyone that should be on your redraft radar and, candidly, probably not even on dynasty except in the deepest of leagues." - Matthew Berry
"Good NFL prospect, again, to help in the run game here but not anyone that should be on your redraft radar and, candidly, probably not even on dynasty except in the deepest of leagues." - Matthew Berry
Yes. People got it all wrong thinking Schoonmaker is just a blocker, he's not even great at that, more of an all around TE. He's also a better athlete then Ferguson. The draft capital was strong and he'll be 25 before end of his rookie season, I feel pretty sure the plan for his ascension up the depth chart is not one that involves a lot of time.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Waldman seemed to be a pretty big fan of the receiving upside. I think I would take Schoonmaker over Ferguson if I had to stash one today, but still trying to sort that out. I had a couple of early 3rds and have since moved one for a late 3rd & early 4th. The clustering up of two talented TEs here along with the GB selections of Musgrave & Kraft had a lot to do with that decision (RB crash as well). I think I'm in on any of these guys late 3rd / early 4th, probably out at the 3.1. I'm keeping the door open for the earlier selection and Musgrave and Schoonmaker are probably the two that I'm most intrigued by if I end up going that route.
Is it worth burning a mid-round pick on one of these rookie TEs to a stash? I don't know. Hard to ignore the draft capital that they got. Steering away from all of it and recovering guys like Bellinger, Noah Gray (or the likes of Jelani Woods, maybe even D-Wash or Ferguson) closer to the end of the draft is on the table. However, if I'm going to bother rostering a TE stash the draft capital would say Musgrave, Schoonmaker, and even Kraft have a better chance of coming in, but they're definitely not getting the clear runway that LaPorta and Mayer got.
Is it worth burning a mid-round pick on one of these rookie TEs to a stash? I don't know. Hard to ignore the draft capital that they got. Steering away from all of it and recovering guys like Bellinger, Noah Gray (or the likes of Jelani Woods, maybe even D-Wash or Ferguson) closer to the end of the draft is on the table. However, if I'm going to bother rostering a TE stash the draft capital would say Musgrave, Schoonmaker, and even Kraft have a better chance of coming in, but they're definitely not getting the clear runway that LaPorta and Mayer got.
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JohnnyU
Footballguy
I would rather throw a dart at a RB in the later rounds than draft Shoonmaker. Don't forget, the fantasy community had a little bit of hype for Ferguson too and he's the starter, so there is that.
You keep saying that but I don't agree.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Ok, you feel Shoonmaker will be the starter, if not immediately, soon, and I disagree
A RB dart throw is a better roster clogger than some TE you will never play.\
I agree a RB is a better dart throw.
Don't care if we agree, just not real big on presenting opinions as facts which you keep trying to do saying Ferguson is the starter. You are not presenting that as an opinion and it's clear distinction.Ok, you feel Shoonmaker will be the starter, if not immediately, soon, and I disagree
I agree a RB is a better dart throw.
League Champion
Footballguy
AgreeOk, you feel Shoonmaker will be the starter, if not immediately, soon, and I disagree
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Perhaps Ferguson isn't the starter, but it sure seems that way to me.\
Don't care if we agree, just not real big on presenting opinions as facts which you keep trying to do saying Ferguson is the starter. You are not presenting that as an opinion and it's clear distinction.Ok, you feel Shoonmaker will be the starter, if not immediately, soon, and I disagree
I agree a RB is a better dart throw.
League Champion
Footballguy
I'm shocked he went 2nd round. I think Jerrah panicked once Musgrave was gone.
I don't see Schoonmaker doing much of anything in the NFL.
I don't see Schoonmaker doing much of anything in the NFL.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Generally agree with the RB dart throws. However, there's only so many "preferred" late round (or undrafted) RB dart throws that I'm taking before I say that the Cowboys invested a 2nd round pick in a TE that has some outstanding measurables, and big time receiving upside according to a guy I trust more than anyone else in this forum to grind through the film.
Liked Ferguson and still do. Even Hendershot, to a much lesser degree, makes the situation less than perfect but I don't think either are reason not to even bother dipping a toe in the water. Early 3rd? Yeah, I probably want the RB dart throw. Late 3rd, early 4th, if I can get a 2nd round NFL pick there, sign me up.
I think it's a mistake to think that there's no chance you're getting any kind of feedback on the pick, because that's the way it has worked with TEs in the NFL., you won't know until Year 3. If you take Schoonmaker and he's ultimately a hit, there's very good chance you're getting a Dulcich or Okonkwo level of affirmation in his rookie year to remind you of why you're dedicating that roster spot. If you don't get that and you're only in to the tune of a 3rd, feel free to cut bait and move on. That's probably the outcome of the RB dart throw anyway.
Liked Ferguson and still do. Even Hendershot, to a much lesser degree, makes the situation less than perfect but I don't think either are reason not to even bother dipping a toe in the water. Early 3rd? Yeah, I probably want the RB dart throw. Late 3rd, early 4th, if I can get a 2nd round NFL pick there, sign me up.
I think it's a mistake to think that there's no chance you're getting any kind of feedback on the pick, because that's the way it has worked with TEs in the NFL., you won't know until Year 3. If you take Schoonmaker and he's ultimately a hit, there's very good chance you're getting a Dulcich or Okonkwo level of affirmation in his rookie year to remind you of why you're dedicating that roster spot. If you don't get that and you're only in to the tune of a 3rd, feel free to cut bait and move on. That's probably the outcome of the RB dart throw anyway.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
What do you want to bet that most FF players don't have the patience to wait until year 3 for a TE to develop? Should that be the case with Shoonmaker.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
I get the sense that your line of thinking is that anyone that drafts Schoonmaker isn't going to know heads or tails of what they have until Year 3. There's historical precedent for this generalization of TEs, but I think it's a mistake in 2023 to assume you're not getting some feedback on an early selection TE. It's going to depend on the individual league (particularly roster size), but in my 24-man the people that took Okonkwo and Dulcich are happy and have gained trade bait with those selections, even if they might not get a final verdict for 2-3 more years. They're not wondering if they were worth the roster spot.
Also, the generalization that you're getting immediate feedback on the late round rookie RB usually doesn't play out that way. Sometimes they're doing just enough to tease in pre-season or the depth chart is so bad that you're obligated to hold. There's a path to a 3-year roster clogger at the RB position too.
Historically speaking you usually know, and I mean high majority of the time, if you have something by at least end of year 2. Most TE's take a year two leap or they never do.
Now that's a better way to phrase it to me. I don't agree and wonder what makes you think they'd take a 24-25 year old TE that high in the draft and feel so strongly it's a foregone conclusion he's not the starter but that's ok to disagree.Perhaps Ferguson isn't the starter, but it sure seems that way to me.\
Don't care if we agree, just not real big on presenting opinions as facts which you keep trying to do saying Ferguson is the starter. You are not presenting that as an opinion and it's clear distinction.Ok, you feel Shoonmaker will be the starter, if not immediately, soon, and I disagree
I agree a RB is a better dart throw.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Maybe he plays on running downs. I hear he's good blocker.Now that's a better way to phrase it to me. I don't agree and wonder what makes you think they'd take a 24-25 year old TE that high in the draft and feel so strongly it's a foregone conclusion he's not the starter but that's ok to disagree.Perhaps Ferguson isn't the starter, but it sure seems that way to me.\
Don't care if we agree, just not real big on presenting opinions as facts which you keep trying to do saying Ferguson is the starter. You are not presenting that as an opinion and it's clear distinction.Ok, you feel Shoonmaker will be the starter, if not immediately, soon, and I disagree
I agree a RB is a better dart throw.
POSITIVES
— Tall, lean build with room to add more weight in the NFL.
— Good speed. Can be a weapon on seam routes, deep crossers and underneath crossers.
— Above-average fluidity and explosiveness for his size. Relatively easy mover.
— Above-average blocker. Highly energetic; shows quality length and strength to handle every assignment.
NEGATIVES
— Did not show much ability to win the ball in traffic.
— Below-average play strength as a pass-catcher. Can be bullied off his routes and get hemmed up at the top of routes.
— Below-average route-runner. Lacks nuance and snappiness at the top of his routes.
— Late-bloomer with very limited production prior to senior season.
I guess depends on the source of info, this one which is my go to source paints him as more an all around type, not overly great at anything and that jives with other things I've seen and heard about him. Even the clip you posted just says "above average blocker" which is hardly a reason to use a second round pick IMO as a blocking specialist IMO.
Wait, I posted the wrong TE. It's correct now.
STRENGTHS: Natural size/speed athlete with a solid build … smooth, punctual route runner and coordinated in and out of his breaks … lulls defenders with his stride length … releases cleanly off the line and into his routes … terrific body control to adjust his target window and quickly become a ball carrier after the catch … flashes strength in his hands to physically move defenders from the spot … showed his agility as a pass blocker (limited sample size) … efficiently engages linebackers and keep them busy to spring runs … improved use of angles as a stalk blocker … looked comfortable aligning all over the offense … only modest college production, but he stepped up as a senior because of injuries
WEAKNESSES: Better athleticism in his routes than after the catch … missed tackles were rare on his film, limiting his RAC plays … inconsistent tracking skills with smaller hands and will use his body to trap the ball … needs to get his eyes to the quarterback quicker out of breaks to make himself more available … fazed by traffic and focus is disrupted in a crowd … quickly finds himself upright when fitting blocks … will turn 25 as an NFL rookie (spent five years in high school after repeating his junior year because of mono and a lacerated spleen, which ruptured when he rushed back) … missed time in his final season because of an AC joint sprain to his left shoulder (December 2022) and then injured his right shoulder in the College Football Playoff semifinal vs. TCU; wasn’t able to finish his pro day because of a right leg injury (March 2023) … limited special teams experience … his career receiving production could be mistaken for a single season.
Summary: Overall, Schoonmaker is only average in most areas, but he has the size, speed and strength to be a solid possession receiver and positional blocker. His well-rounded game will help him become a steady No. 2 (and potential No. 1) tight end for an NFL team.
dipandglide
Footballguy
Premium/start 2 TE leagues aside...league roster depth plays a huge role in this conversation. I'd rather burn later picks on upside RB's like Zach Evans and Sean Tucker than, say, Shoon or Darnell Washington in <28 roster leagues. Most TE's end up on the WW unless they pop early. My WW in those leagues is littered with Harrison Bryant's, Cade Oton's, and Isaiah Likey's. Don't waste your draft capital on them in those leagues. This all changes if you have deep rosters (>30). I'd take guys like Shoon/Washington over many of the WR's, and maybe some RB's in that scenario.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Hey, don’t badmouth Isaiah Likely. He’s has shown to be pretty good. His obstacle is a top 2 TE in front of him.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Was going to post the same. I know some people are into Otton, and I kind of understand it given the depth chart. However, Likely is the one that stands out as a "which one doesn't belong here, which one isn't the same" if he's on waivers with Bryant and Otton. Looks like a 16th rounder on a dynasty startup. Not super valuable in a 24-man x 12, but enough that you're going to keep him around unless someone is offering an early/mid 3rd.
I did like Bryant as a TE dart throw two years ago. He was up there on a watch list, but never pulled the trigger. If I did, this is an example of a TE that I would have felt comfortable throwing back after '21 (Year 2) for not taking a step. 4th round NFL selection.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
The thing about Likely is that he won’t be a TE1 unless Andrews gets hurt or after his rookie contract expires and he’s with a new team. It’s not as if Andrews is old.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
With you on Sean Tucker and Evans. I do have Musgrave and Schoonmaker in the same tier, but without any insight as to how the TE battle is playing out in camp, give me those RBs if I'm drafting today. Same for Abanikanda and Chase Brown.
Am I passing on Eric Gray? Hull? McBride without any resolution to Cook? Debatable, but I'm leaning Schoonmaker, probably Kraft as well.
I like Tiyon Evans and Prince as rb dart throws even later in the draft, but that's easily Schoonmaker until it isn't.
sushinsky4tsar
Footballguy
Yeah, not a great situation and the fact that the Ravens might have 3 viable WRs this year doesn't help. Kolar back in the mix as well. I have him and this is why I would probably move him for a mid-3rd if offered. Don't have to protect him on the cut down and can immediately replace him with a Schoonmaker or Kraft that I like just as well with less formidable competition.
Not going to be a prisoner if he can't build on his rookie year, but he has flashed when given the opportunity. I would think one significant Andrews injury away from being able to sell at a nice profit. I went through the slog of waiting for Goedert to get his chance behind Ertz. The lesson? I can tolerate burning a roster spot on a guy that's not very usable as long as the dynasty "hive mind" is saying that you have something at whatever point that he finally gets his chance. That shine isn't there for Likely like it was for Goedert (yet). He also doesn't have the same draft capital, but if he gets more opportunities and does something with it, it will be.
Or he takes a step back and I move on to other things in 2024.
Jam Session
Footballguy
I liked what I saw out of Ferguson last year and thought they reached a little for Schoonmaker. I think Ferguson will end up being the value when we look back.
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Kind of puts a damper on the semi-hype he's getting. We just had our first waivers after our draft and I made him my top priority, but I also got Ferguson. The more I read about Schoon his ceiling is higher than Ferguson, but he will probably have to wait.
