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Team O Chess (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter otello
- Start date
otello
Footballguy
i am leaning toward taking with B.
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Black
I like Rc8. Let's see if we can get them to make a mistake imo. I expect it will go something like this:
19.O-O Rac8 20.Rac1 Qd8 21.g5 f5
If, somewhere in there or next, they move their rook to e1 I think it's important for us to respond with our own Re8.
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White
I'm fine taking with the bishop. I prefer to taking with the rook only because it gets the bishop into the action and opens up the possibility of a castle later, if we want it.
I like Rc8. Let's see if we can get them to make a mistake imo. I expect it will go something like this:
19.O-O Rac8 20.Rac1 Qd8 21.g5 f5
If, somewhere in there or next, they move their rook to e1 I think it's important for us to respond with our own Re8.
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White
I'm fine taking with the bishop. I prefer to taking with the rook only because it gets the bishop into the action and opens up the possibility of a castle later, if we want it.
kutta
Footballguy
White:
Let's walk through a couple scenarios (hopefully I get the notation correct...).
18. Bxd3, bxc6
19. 0-0, Bc5+
20. Kh1, 0-0
I don't see much for us here. I really like the idea of playing h4 if they castle, but it is much more effective with a Bishop on e2 or h5. I understand the desire to take the queen with the bishop because it gets him into the action, but IMO it is not nearly as powerful as taking with the rook for the following reasons: 1. We block off our rook from the d file, we do not allow ourselves the opportunity to double up our rooks (either on the f or d file), and we don't get our bishop to h5 (which is where I think it belongs).
The other scenario:
18. Rxd3, bxc6
19. Be2, Bc5 (doesn't allow us to castle, but as DB pointed out earlier, that may not be all bad.)
20. Bh5 (or Rf1), 0-0? (I'm not really sure what they do here. I think we have a pretty good attack going. They can't play Bb7 and try to 0-0-0 because we play Bxf7 then. If they 0-0 right now, I like h4. If they don't castle, we can load up pressure on the pawn at f7 by playing both rooks over to the f file.)
I just may be missing something because it appears that most people want to take with the bishop. Let me know how you see that playing out because I am just not seeing a strong attack by taking with the Bishop.
Let's walk through a couple scenarios (hopefully I get the notation correct...).
18. Bxd3, bxc6
19. 0-0, Bc5+
20. Kh1, 0-0
I don't see much for us here. I really like the idea of playing h4 if they castle, but it is much more effective with a Bishop on e2 or h5. I understand the desire to take the queen with the bishop because it gets him into the action, but IMO it is not nearly as powerful as taking with the rook for the following reasons: 1. We block off our rook from the d file, we do not allow ourselves the opportunity to double up our rooks (either on the f or d file), and we don't get our bishop to h5 (which is where I think it belongs).
The other scenario:
18. Rxd3, bxc6
19. Be2, Bc5 (doesn't allow us to castle, but as DB pointed out earlier, that may not be all bad.)
20. Bh5 (or Rf1), 0-0? (I'm not really sure what they do here. I think we have a pretty good attack going. They can't play Bb7 and try to 0-0-0 because we play Bxf7 then. If they 0-0 right now, I like h4. If they don't castle, we can load up pressure on the pawn at f7 by playing both rooks over to the f file.)
I just may be missing something because it appears that most people want to take with the bishop. Let me know how you see that playing out because I am just not seeing a strong attack by taking with the Bishop.
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Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
19...Bb4 would be a check, we'd have to move the king or the c pawn.
If we take with the bishop and don't castle, we end up here I think:
18.Bxd3 bxc6 19.Rf1 Bb4+ 20.Ke2
Not such a bad position from which to launch an attack (I think?).
kutta
Footballguy
Yes, once again I messed up the notation. Bb4 would result in us playing c3. Bc5 is what I meant above. I changed it.
I agree it "looks" like a good position for us, but I just don't really see anything there. Try taking it 2-3 moves down the road. I have and I just don't see where we go from here.
kutta
Footballguy
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
I'm traveling today so won't have any time to give more input. Kutta you may have a point...I tried to play it out a bit and after they castle we'd need some sort of sac to get in there I think, with our pawns already depleted:
18.Bxd3 bxc6 19.Rf1 Bb4+ 20.Ke2 f5 21.Nd6+ Bxd6 22.exd6 O-O
18.Bxd3 bxc6 19.Rf1 Bb4+ 20.Ke2 f5 21.Nd6+ Bxd6 22.exd6 O-O
dancingbones
Footballguy
I've also been playing around with us taking with Rook & them moving knight on move 19
18. Rxd3 bxc6
19. Be2 Nc5 - I don't see a good response for us here.
20. Nf6+ Ke7
21. Rd6
Could play out like this, which I like....Bb7
22. Rf1 Bg7
23. Bh5 Bxf6
24. Rxf6
I'm not opposed to taking with the rook & could go either way. They are probably thinking we'll take with the bishop.
dancingbones
Footballguy
I think if we take with the Bishop, we need to play Rf1 rather than O-O.
I can honestly go either way on this one. I'm fine taking with either the R or the B. I think we can salvage a decent attack with either.
18. Bxd3 bxc6
19. Rf1 Be7
20. Be2 O-O
21. Bh5
I can honestly go either way on this one. I'm fine taking with either the R or the B. I think we can salvage a decent attack with either.
18. Bxd3 bxc6
19. Rf1 Be7
20. Be2 O-O
21. Bh5
kutta
Footballguy
I think this is good for us. Instead of 22. Rf1, I think Bf2 is really good, threatening Rd7. If they don't play Bb7, I think we get the c pawn.
kutta
Footballguy
Nice! I'm in 3 woodford's right now so don't trust anything I type for the next 12 hours.
dancingbones
Footballguy
kutta
Footballguy
Ditto
dancingbones
Footballguy
So for black.
Two options put forth so far. The first one forces a lot of action kingside, but maybe not to our benefit in the end.
19......Bh6
20. g5 fxg5
21. Bxg5 Bxg5
22. Nxg5 Nxg5
23. Qxg5 Rf7?
24. Kh1?
Leaves us with the option of doubling our rooks on the f file, but they can bring a lot of pressure on the g file, and also bring their bishop into h5 to aid the attack while our knight is bottled up in a more defensive position.
19.....Rac8
20. Rac1 - here pychopav Qd8, but I'm not so sure about that. Maybe Rc5?
Need some more analysis here, but I think I like this line better than exposing our kingside.
Two options put forth so far. The first one forces a lot of action kingside, but maybe not to our benefit in the end.
19......Bh6
20. g5 fxg5
21. Bxg5 Bxg5
22. Nxg5 Nxg5
23. Qxg5 Rf7?
24. Kh1?
Leaves us with the option of doubling our rooks on the f file, but they can bring a lot of pressure on the g file, and also bring their bishop into h5 to aid the attack while our knight is bottled up in a more defensive position.
19.....Rac8
20. Rac1 - here pychopav Qd8, but I'm not so sure about that. Maybe Rc5?
Need some more analysis here, but I think I like this line better than exposing our kingside.
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dancingbones
Footballguy
Maybe Rac8 followed by Bh6?
19....Rac8
20. Rac1 Bh6
21. g5 fxg5
22. Bxg5 Bxg5
23. Nxg5 Rxc1
24. Rxc1? Nxg5
Probably too late in the evening to speculate so many moves ahead, but I think Rac8 needs some thought.
19....Rac8
20. Rac1 Bh6
21. g5 fxg5
22. Bxg5 Bxg5
23. Nxg5 Rxc1
24. Rxc1? Nxg5
Probably too late in the evening to speculate so many moves ahead, but I think Rac8 needs some thought.
otello
Footballguy
taking with rook.
kutta
Footballguy
Black:
Here's an interesting line. It would work better if we could get their rook to c1 without ours on c8 though.
19 ... Rac8
20. Rac1, g5
21. Bg3, h5
22. gxh5, Bh6
We now have the threat of g4 which would win a piece. If we didn't have our rook on c8, this would be pretty cool. But right now they can play:
23. Rxc8, Rxc8
24. Qd3
And they are free. But it just feels like there could be something here getting the bishop to h6 with the double pin.
Even without all that ridiculousness, what about playing g5? It gives our knight a nice spot g6.
Here's an interesting line. It would work better if we could get their rook to c1 without ours on c8 though.
19 ... Rac8
20. Rac1, g5
21. Bg3, h5
22. gxh5, Bh6
We now have the threat of g4 which would win a piece. If we didn't have our rook on c8, this would be pretty cool. But right now they can play:
23. Rxc8, Rxc8
24. Qd3
And they are free. But it just feels like there could be something here getting the bishop to h6 with the double pin.
Even without all that ridiculousness, what about playing g5? It gives our knight a nice spot g6.
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otello
Footballguy
why don't we play 20. Bh6, instead of g5?
dancingbones
Footballguy
kutta
Footballguy
I agree. Unless someone has another suggestion I say we go ahead and do it
kutta
Footballguy
because they can play g5 then
kutta
Footballguy
Did you make the move or are you waiting?
kutta
Footballguy
I think so. But it gets pretty hairy over there
otello
Footballguy
otello
Footballguy
dancingbones
Footballguy
I think we should go Rac8 here.kutta said:
19......Rac8
20. Rc1 Rxc1
21. Rxc1 g5
dancingbones
Footballguy
Or even better
19.... Rac8
20. Rc1 Rxc1
21. Rxc1 Bh6
22. g5 fxg5
Opens up our f file, puts pressure on the knight & pawn on f2 & f3, and has the B with a discovered bead on the Q & R.
Either way, I think Rac8 is a solid move here.
19.... Rac8
20. Rc1 Rxc1
21. Rxc1 Bh6
22. g5 fxg5
Opens up our f file, puts pressure on the knight & pawn on f2 & f3, and has the B with a discovered bead on the Q & R.
Either way, I think Rac8 is a solid move here.
