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Team O Chess (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter otello
- Start date
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
Nf6 is solid. Kinda puts the onus back on them to see where they want to go.
otello
Footballguy
Kutta, we have some italian on the menu, though we are white.
kutta
Footballguy
Indeed. Should be fun.
otello
Footballguy
Open Sicilian: 2.Nf3 and 3.d4
Over 75% of games beginning with 1.e4 c5 continue with 2.Nf3, when there are three main options for Black: 2...d6, 2...Nc6, and 2...e6. Lines where White then plays 3.d4 are collectively known as the Open Sicilian, and result in extremely complex positions. White has a lead in development and extra kingside space, which White can use to begin a kingside attack. This is counterbalanced by Black's central pawn majority, created by the trade of White's d-pawn for Black's c-pawn, and the open c-file, which Black uses to generate queenside counterplay.
2...d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3
Black's most common move after 2.Nf3 is 2...d6. This prepares ...Nf6 to attack the e-pawn without letting White push it to e5. The game usually continues 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3. Sometimes played is 3...Nf6 4.Nc3 cxd4 5.Nxd4 giving the same result. Black can then choose between four major variations: in order of decreasing popularity, these are the Najdorf (5...a6), Dragon (5...g6), Classical (5...Nc6), and Scheveningen (5...e6). The Venice Attack (5...e5 6.Bb5+) and Kupreichik Variation (5...Bd7) are rarely played. 5...e5 is often considered something of an error on Black's part and 5...Bd7 can transpose to one of the more common variations, such as the Classical or Dragon, but there are also a number of independent lines.
There are a few ways for either side to deviate from the moves given above. After 3...cxd4, White occasionally plays 4.Qxd4, the Chekhover Variation, intending to meet 4...Nc6 with 5.Bb5 Bd7 6.Bxc6, when White hopes that his lead in development compensates for Black's bishop pair. Black can avoid this line by playing 3...Nf6, when 4.Nc3 cxd4 5.Nxd4 returns to main lines. However, White has the option of 4.dxc5!?, when Black can play either 4...Nxe4 or 4...Qa5+. Another unusual sideline is 3...cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3!?, the Prins Variation, which tries to maintain the option of c4 with a Maróczy Bind formation.
Over 75% of games beginning with 1.e4 c5 continue with 2.Nf3, when there are three main options for Black: 2...d6, 2...Nc6, and 2...e6. Lines where White then plays 3.d4 are collectively known as the Open Sicilian, and result in extremely complex positions. White has a lead in development and extra kingside space, which White can use to begin a kingside attack. This is counterbalanced by Black's central pawn majority, created by the trade of White's d-pawn for Black's c-pawn, and the open c-file, which Black uses to generate queenside counterplay.
2...d6 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3
Black's most common move after 2.Nf3 is 2...d6. This prepares ...Nf6 to attack the e-pawn without letting White push it to e5. The game usually continues 3.d4 cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.Nc3. Sometimes played is 3...Nf6 4.Nc3 cxd4 5.Nxd4 giving the same result. Black can then choose between four major variations: in order of decreasing popularity, these are the Najdorf (5...a6), Dragon (5...g6), Classical (5...Nc6), and Scheveningen (5...e6). The Venice Attack (5...e5 6.Bb5+) and Kupreichik Variation (5...Bd7) are rarely played. 5...e5 is often considered something of an error on Black's part and 5...Bd7 can transpose to one of the more common variations, such as the Classical or Dragon, but there are also a number of independent lines.
There are a few ways for either side to deviate from the moves given above. After 3...cxd4, White occasionally plays 4.Qxd4, the Chekhover Variation, intending to meet 4...Nc6 with 5.Bb5 Bd7 6.Bxc6, when White hopes that his lead in development compensates for Black's bishop pair. Black can avoid this line by playing 3...Nf6, when 4.Nc3 cxd4 5.Nxd4 returns to main lines. However, White has the option of 4.dxc5!?, when Black can play either 4...Nxe4 or 4...Qa5+. Another unusual sideline is 3...cxd4 4.Nxd4 Nf6 5.f3!?, the Prins Variation, which tries to maintain the option of c4 with a Maróczy Bind formation.
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Steve Tasker
Footballguy
My general comment on main line open Sicilians is that since there's so much out there devoted to open Sicilian theory, it's pretty easy for black just parrot moves from opening books to at least gain equality. White can follow the opening lines as well and be fine, but I prefer to make my opponent start thinking for himself early.
I'm not suggesting an overt anti-Sicilian like 2. c3 or something, but I am just saying the team should consider playing some sort of novelty early on.
I'm not suggesting an overt anti-Sicilian like 2. c3 or something, but I am just saying the team should consider playing some sort of novelty early on.
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kutta
Footballguy
I do agree with this line of thinking in general. The quicker we get out of main lines the quicker we can use our superior skill to crush them .
otello
Footballguy
What sort of novelty are you suggesting? If the game does go by the book, I like our chances in the middle game and tactically.
otello
Footballguy
common responses are g6, e6, c5 or c6. See below bold:
1...Nf6
White can play 2.d4, thereby transposing to an Indian defence, which is usually reached by 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4, after which Black may play 2...e6 (see 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 e6), or Black may play 2...g6 (see 1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 g6). Also White can play 2.Nf3. Then Black may play 2...e6 for English (ECO code A13, see 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nf3 e6). This can lead to Queen's Gambit Declined (D37), Queen's Indian (E12), or Symmetrical Variation (A30). Or Black may play 2...g6 for English (A15, see 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nf3 g6). This can lead to King's Indian Defense (E60), King's Indian, Orthodox (E94), King's Indian (E92), or English (A15). Also White can play 2.Nc3. Then Black may play 2...e5 for English (A28, see 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e5). This can lead to English (A28), Old Indian, Ukrainian Variation, 4.Nf3 (A54), or English (A22). Or Black may play 2...e6 for English (A17, see 1.c4 Nf6 2.Nc3 e6). This can lead to Nimzo–Indian, Classical (E32), Symmetrical Variation (A30), or D35 or D37 of the Queen's Gambit Declined.
I like g6.
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otello
Footballguy
I like nf3, as does kutta, but ST (and kutta) raise a good point that we will have to consider at some point with a well-known opening like the sicilian; that would mean a different move. What do you think? In my view, there is time to explore novelties, but not necessarily so early.
kutta
Footballguy
I agree. We could consider something like f4 here. It is aggressive and leads to a pretty wide open game. I'm really good either way.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
My problem with just following the GM book is that, well, I'm not a grandmaster. When a GM plays some 13th move in a main line Sicilian, it may make all the sense in the world to him....but to me, it may just look like a random move. If I don't understand the underlying principles behind a move, I don't play it.
(As a side tangent, that's why I began playing French pretty much exclusively against 1. e4 rather than Sicilian, and why I've never liked 1. ... d5 against 1. d4. I don't truly understand, on a deeper level, the higher-level principles behind the openings.)
When I say "novelty", we're not reinventing the wheel here. I just meant something to mix it up along the line and get our opponents to stop relying on the book without structurally weakening our own position. Doesn't need to be on move 2....I don't know if I've ever played anything other than 2. Nf3.
Ray Karpis
Footballguy
I moved Nf6. What's next?
dancingbones
Footballguy
I like that idea as well. G6 as black is good.
Also like nf3 as white. I could use some work on just recognizing what the "standard" move should be!
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
I have a suggestion. For the sake of expediency, it would be helpful to adopt a simple posting convention in this thread in order to be able to quickly identify which game is being referenced in the following post or paragraph. I recommend that we preface our posts with either "White" or "Black" followed by a line return and then our thoughts. The color would refer to the color Team O is playing in that particular game.
So for example, DB's last post would read like this:
So for example, DB's last post would read like this:
I think it would made the thread easier to follow and, down the road, easier to isolate the discussion over the course of one or the other game, which might be difficult without splitting into 2 separate threads.
Dentist
***Official FBG Dentist***
i didn't realize there were as many people into chess on this board, or in life for that matter until I got into the Chess Time App... i'm simply blown away by as many people playing at this high of a level.
Did a lot of you guys have like a chess club at school or something? How did you learn/get good at it? I learned how to play chess as a youth, but there was never really a competitive outlet for it as we mainly just played video games with each other, and then that evolved into poker when I was in my 20's... so this an all-new world for me.
Did a lot of you guys have like a chess club at school or something? How did you learn/get good at it? I learned how to play chess as a youth, but there was never really a competitive outlet for it as we mainly just played video games with each other, and then that evolved into poker when I was in my 20's... so this an all-new world for me.
kutta
Footballguy
I played on the chess team for my high school all four years. It was super geeky but tons of fun. I kept at it for a few years after high school but haven't played at all for the last 25 years or so. I'm digging this tournament because it is rekindling my interest.
otello
Footballguy
I agree that bg7 is the right move.
otello
Footballguy
d4 should be next move. Anyone disagree?
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Psychopav
Help us, Joebi-Wan Brynobi, you're our only ho
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
I'm entirely self-taught. I have a really addictive and competitive personality. I started actually reading about chess and taking it seriously when I was like 19, and spent a solid 2-2.5 years where it was honestly really my main hobby while in my later college years, along with drinking. Lots of reading, lots of playing. It eventually got to the point where it wasn't fun anymore (a true addictive personality), and I quit it pretty much cold turkey about 5 years ago. There's an informal local club I've played with a handful of times, but I was always by far the worst player there (lots of expert/A players) and didn't get much out of it.
It's like anything else in life...you get out of it what you put in. I'm sure you're a pretty good poker player right now, right? Well, when you started, you probably weren't very good. But you probably read some books, studied a little theory, and played countless poker games, and here you are. The same holds true with chess.
Steve Tasker
Footballguy
White
3. d4 is fine with me.
Black
Bg7 is fine. Need to be wary of white amassing a huge pawn center though. The option is there if they want it.
3. d4 is fine with me.
Black
Bg7 is fine. Need to be wary of white amassing a huge pawn center though. The option is there if they want it.
dancingbones
Footballguy
White:
I like nc3 (with an eye to following w/ bb5x if they respond w/nf6)
Black:
I like b7
I like nc3 (with an eye to following w/ bb5x if they respond w/nf6)
Black:
I like b7
otello
Footballguy
So far, this is the most popular choice. I will wait to see if anyone else chimes in.
dancingbones
Footballguy
kutta
Footballguy
And meWhite4 is also fine w/me
otello
Footballguy
