Team O Chess (1 Viewer)

[dancingbones]

Black -

Bxc1

Agree?

Yep. Kill it & let's kick this one in gear.

 

[dancingbones]

They moved in both games:

Us as black - they moved Qe1.

This is kind of what Otello and I were discussing earlier. It looks like they are choosing to go down the exchange rather than lose a piece and give us a good attack. I think BxR is a no-brainer here. I've looked around and don't see anything else super clever, but someone else might find something. I think we follow it up with Rc8 and g5. I think it's time in this game to just grind it out and not make any mistakes. When we have an opportunity to trade material we should take it, especially queens. Our rook will rule the roost with all those backwards pawns they have.

Us as white - they moved BxN

I am NOT a fan of their bishop on that diagonal. I think their one big threat right now is to play Rb8 and threaten to play Rb1+ and try to win our c pawn also. If we can castle we can eliminate that threat. Here's what I'm thinking:

Rf3, 0-0 (they are forced to play either 0-0, Rf8, or Ra7 here. I don't see anything else reasonable. If they play Rf8, we play Rf6 winning their h pawn, so I don't see them doing that).

Bf2, BxB (I think they pretty much have to take the bishop. If they don't, our bishop will be covering a7 so they can't play their rook there. I really hope they don't take it because we have some great attacks if the don't.)

RxB, ? (I really don't know what they will do here. Maybe c4 so they can get their white bishop into play).

0-0

Whatever they do I think we 0-0. They have to play ra7 at some point to protect the f pawn. I like our spot here. Their pieces are all tied up protecting that pawn. We can now try h4 to see if we can get an attack going over there. The good thing is that they can't really ever move their rook on f8 because we will take the pawn, so their king is going to be trapped over there.

Overall I think we should win our black game and have a good shot at our white game. We should be able to at least pull out a draw in the white game.

White.

I think they will start to push that A pawn after that sequence of moves above, and I'm wondering if we would be better off playing Rf1 instead of castling.

I think I we may need to keep our king more centralized and closer to their isolated a & c pawns. I think we're going there eventually to take the advantage in this game. We have all of the options available above, but we have the K able to move more in space & aid our attack.

Option A

22. Rf1 O-O (same effect as K's analysis above)

23. Rdf3 Ra7

24 Bf2 (they must take B here) Bxf2

25. R1xf2 a5

Or

Option B

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Bxf2 (they have the option of not taking the bishop here in this scenario, where they really must take it in option a)

24. Rxf2 a5

25. O-O

I think we lose a move and have our K further from the attack if we castle.

Anyone with good analysis skills on our optimal position for defending against that a pawn while furthering our attack with our g & h pawns? This next move should forward where we want to end up for the optimal attack.

 

[otello]

Black -

Bxc1

Agree?

Yep. Kill it & let's kick this one in gear.

Moving now.

 

[otello]

Black - moved Bxc1

 

[Psychopav]

They moved in both games:

Us as black - they moved Qe1.

This is kind of what Otello and I were discussing earlier. It looks like they are choosing to go down the exchange rather than lose a piece and give us a good attack. I think BxR is a no-brainer here. I've looked around and don't see anything else super clever, but someone else might find something. I think we follow it up with Rc8 and g5. I think it's time in this game to just grind it out and not make any mistakes. When we have an opportunity to trade material we should take it, especially queens. Our rook will rule the roost with all those backwards pawns they have.

Us as white - they moved BxN

I am NOT a fan of their bishop on that diagonal. I think their one big threat right now is to play Rb8 and threaten to play Rb1+ and try to win our c pawn also. If we can castle we can eliminate that threat. Here's what I'm thinking:

Rf3, 0-0 (they are forced to play either 0-0, Rf8, or Ra7 here. I don't see anything else reasonable. If they play Rf8, we play Rf6 winning their h pawn, so I don't see them doing that).

Bf2, BxB (I think they pretty much have to take the bishop. If they don't, our bishop will be covering a7 so they can't play their rook there. I really hope they don't take it because we have some great attacks if the don't.)

RxB, ? (I really don't know what they will do here. Maybe c4 so they can get their white bishop into play).

0-0

Whatever they do I think we 0-0. They have to play ra7 at some point to protect the f pawn. I like our spot here. Their pieces are all tied up protecting that pawn. We can now try h4 to see if we can get an attack going over there. The good thing is that they can't really ever move their rook on f8 because we will take the pawn, so their king is going to be trapped over there.

Overall I think we should win our black game and have a good shot at our white game. We should be able to at least pull out a draw in the white game.

White.

I think they will start to push that A pawn after that sequence of moves above, and I'm wondering if we would be better off playing Rf1 instead of castling.

I think I we may need to keep our king more centralized and closer to their isolated a & c pawns. I think we're going there eventually to take the advantage in this game. We have all of the options available above, but we have the K able to move more in space & aid our attack.

Option A

22. Rf1 O-O (same effect as K's analysis above)

23. Rdf3 Ra7

24 Bf2 (they must take B here) Bxf2

25. R1xf2 a5

Or

Option B

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Bxf2 (they have the option of not taking the bishop here in this scenario, where they really must take it in option a)

24. Rxf2 a5

25. O-O

I think we lose a move and have our K further from the attack if we castle.

Anyone with good analysis skills on our optimal position for defending against that a pawn while furthering our attack with our g & h pawns? This next move should forward where we want to end up for the optimal attack.

I agree with DB that their pawn is going to need to be handled but not at the expense of our attack.

Rf1 presents another potential opportunity as well. Given what they just experienced in our black game, it's possible that respond with a5, with the idea of getting their bishop out there doubling up our rooks. If they do get drawn in, we have Rxf7 in response.

If they choose to castle instead of a1, it looks like Rdf3 gives us a great line to attack as DB points out above.

If they choose to bring out their f pawn we have a lot of action there as well.

I vote for Rf1.

 

[kutta]

I may be OK with Rf1, but I just don't like the possibility of them getting their rook to the b file and coming down and causing us pain, especially if they get their other rook to the d file. But I suppose if we take the bishop at f2 with our rook on f1, they can't come down and check us and force a rook exchange.

I also like the idea of playing our Bishop to f2 before playing rf3, as long as we have one rook on that file. We might be able to coax them into not exchanging bishops, which I think is good for us. If we have both rooks on that file, the exchange is pretty much forced.

 

[Psychopav]

White

I may be OK with Rf1, but I just don't like the possibility of them getting their rook to the b file and coming down and causing us pain, especially if they get their other rook to the d file. But I suppose if we take the bishop at f2 with our rook on f1, they can't come down and check us and force a rook exchange.

If they respond to 22. Rf1 with Rb8, we have 23. Rf7 and put them in a very tough spot.

 

[kutta]

White

I may be OK with Rf1, but I just don't like the possibility of them getting their rook to the b file and coming down and causing us pain, especially if they get their other rook to the d file. But I suppose if we take the bishop at f2 with our rook on f1, they can't come down and check us and force a rook exchange.

If they respond to 22. Rf1 with Rb8, we have 23. Rf7 and put them in a very tough spot.

I agree. I'm talking more about them doing that five moves from now when some if the stuff over there settles down.

 

[dancingbones]

I think the question comes down to what we see our attack/ defense against the a pawn looking like after we get them locked up in the f pawn defense.

If we don't castle, we won't be able to get our K past the d file without opening ourselves up to a check.

If we end up swapping rooks , we need to be able to take both their a & c pawns just to get even on material.

What does our attack look like with out g & h pawns once they start pushing the a pawn?

 

[kutta]

I think the question comes down to what we see our attack/ defense against the a pawn looking like after we get them locked up in the f pawn defense.

If we don't castle, we won't be able to get our K past the d file without opening ourselves up to a check.

If we end up swapping rooks , we need to be able to take both their a & c pawns just to get even on material.

What does our attack look like with out g & h pawns once they start pushing the a pawn?

How about this? Maybe we can defer the castling decision to see how things play out.

We could play:

Rf3, 0-0

Bf2, BxB

RxB ??

Rhf1 OR 0-0

I think we end up in the same spot, but maybe they don't take the bishop, or maybe they do something dumb like Bb7 at the "??" move which would prevent them from protecting their f pawn with their a rook.

But at least we can move ahead while still trying to figure all this out.

 

[Psychopav]

White

Can someone model out how the f pawn defense locks down? It looks like it opens things up for us so I guess I'm just not seeing where they'll have time to advance that a pawn.

As far as getting that king out of the way, Kd2 would do if needed, wouldn't it?

 

[kutta]

White

Can someone model out how the f pawn defense locks down? It looks like it opens things up for us so I guess I'm just not seeing where they'll have time to advance that a pawn.

As far as getting that king out of the way, Kd2 would do if needed, wouldn't it?

Rf3, 0-0

Rf1, Ra7

Their f pawn is now safe. We can't make any more headway there, but we do have their rooks tied to those rows/files. They can also eventually play Bd7 and the Be8 to get one more piece on that pawn, but at any point if they play Bd7 or Bb7, it will block off the "a" rook and we can pounce.

 

[kutta]

White

Can someone model out how the f pawn defense locks down? It looks like it opens things up for us so I guess I'm just not seeing where they'll have time to advance that a pawn.

As far as getting that king out of the way, Kd2 would do if needed, wouldn't it?

Kd2 would do it temporarily, but they could start up their own attack with Rd8+ if we move our rook off that file.

I don't think it's necessarily end of the world type stuff, but it could just get a little hairy for us.

 

[Psychopav]

White

Can someone model out how the f pawn defense locks down? It looks like it opens things up for us so I guess I'm just not seeing where they'll have time to advance that a pawn.

As far as getting that king out of the way, Kd2 would do if needed, wouldn't it?

Rf3, 0-0

Rf1, Ra7

Their f pawn is now safe. We can't make any more headway there, but we do have their rooks tied to those rows/files. They can also eventually play Bd7 and the Be8 to get one more piece on that pawn, but at any point if they play Bd7 or Bb7, it will block off the "a" rook and we can pounce.

Hmm. Thanks.

 

[otello]

What about moving out King now, to e2? It permits our black bishop to go to e1, and perhaps a5 to limit their a pawn. Can we still protect our e pawn, then? The other rook moves are still available, just one move later. How would you respond as black if we moved Ke2? Plus it gives us the flexibility to put both rooks on the d file.

 

[kutta]

What about moving out King now, to e2? It permits our black bishop to go to e1, and perhaps a5 to limit their a pawn. Can we still protect our e pawn, then? The other rook moves are still available, just one move later. How would you respond as black if we moved Ke2? Plus it gives us the flexibility to put both rooks on the d file.

Hmmm. I almost like it, but I don't think I do. I originally thought they could play Be7 with the plan to play Be8 to protect the f pawn. But if they do play Be7, we can play Bxf2.

Hmmm.

 

[Psychopav]

What about moving out King now, to e2? It permits our black bishop to go to e1, and perhaps a5 to limit their a pawn. Can we still protect our e pawn, then? The other rook moves are still available, just one move later. How would you respond as black if we moved Ke2? Plus it gives us the flexibility to put both rooks on the d file.

What about Kd2?

I still kind of like Rf1.

 

[otello]

What about moving out King now, to e2? It permits our black bishop to go to e1, and perhaps a5 to limit their a pawn. Can we still protect our e pawn, then? The other rook moves are still available, just one move later. How would you respond as black if we moved Ke2? Plus it gives us the flexibility to put both rooks on the d file.

What about Kd2?

I still kind of like Rf1.

We would need to move the K again, to take full advantage of Be1.

 

[otello]

Playing ke2 would let us play Rc3, perhaps winning a pawn.

 

[kutta]

Playing ke2 would let us play Rc3, perhaps winning a pawn.

And it might entice them to play Bb7 or Bd7. Either way if they play that we can play Bxf2 with our next move being Rd7.

 

[kutta]

Here's what I'm thinking:

Ke2, Be7

Rc3, c4

Bf2, Bb7

And I don't see how we win material here or get a good attack going.

There's a lot good that could happen, but I think Be7 is the key move for them.

 

[Psychopav]

Is there any value in sac'ing the rook?

26.Rf3 Rfd8

27.Bxf7+ Kg7

28.Be7 Rd7

29.Bf6+ Kf8

30.Bxe6 Rd3

Or something along these lines?

 

[kutta]

Is there any value in sac'ing the rook?

26.Rf3 Rfd8

27.Bxf7+ Kg7

28.Be7 Rd7

29.Bf6+ Kf8

30.Bxe6 Rd3

Or something along these lines?

I'm not following these moves. Are you sure they are correct?

 

[kutta]

I'm really struggling here. Here are some thoughts.

1. We don't really threaten to win a pawn with Ke2 because if we play Rc3 and they move the bishop and allow us to take the pawn, they can play Bb7 and get the pawn back at g2:

Ke2, 0-0

Rc3, Bb4 (if they play Be7 we get a jump on the f pawn with Rf3)

Rxc6, Bb7

Rb6, Bxg2

I think playing Ke2 right now slows us down and gives them time to recover from our attack on the f pawn. We are kind of a move behind now.

2. I think playing Rf3 gives us flexibility and still keeps the pressure on them. They are forced to react to protect the f pawn and we can get some good pressure over there. Granted, we have to keep our eye on the a pawn, but there are plenty of opportunities for them to goof.

Rf3, 0-0 (I can't imagine them doing anything different here.)

Bf2, BxB (I like playing the bishop here now instead of waiting one move because maybe they won't trade and that would be very good for us).

RxB, Ra7 (I'm pretty sure this is forced here. Any bishop move and we will win the f pawn).

Now we can play:

0-0 OR Rf1 OR h4 OR Ke2 OR Rf6

I think this line gives us some good options and allows a few places for them to make mistakes. Our worst case is above, and that doesn't look so bad. I think we get a pretty good attack with h4 and then we work on gathering up those pawns over there and maybe getting a cheap mate.

 

[otello]

I agree about Ke2. Let me look at other options.

 

[Psychopav]

Is there any value in sac'ing the rook?

26.Rf3 Rfd8

27.Bxf7+ Kg7

28.Be7 Rd7

29.Bf6+ Kf8

30.Bxe6 Rd3

Or something along these lines?

I'm not following these moves. Are you sure they are correct?

No they weren't, disregard.

 

[otello]

Black:

They moved Qxc1.

Immediate thought:

1. Rc8

 

[kutta]

Black:

They moved Qxc1.

Immediate thought:

1. Rc8

I agree.

I think we follow up with g5.

 

[otello]

I'm really struggling here. Here are some thoughts.

1. We don't really threaten to win a pawn with Ke2 because if we play Rc3 and they move the bishop and allow us to take the pawn, they can play Bb7 and get the pawn back at g2:

Ke2, 0-0

Rc3, Bb4 (if they play Be7 we get a jump on the f pawn with Rf3)

Rxc6, Bb7

Rb6, Bxg2

I think playing Ke2 right now slows us down and gives them time to recover from our attack on the f pawn. We are kind of a move behind now.

2. I think playing Rf3 gives us flexibility and still keeps the pressure on them. They are forced to react to protect the f pawn and we can get some good pressure over there. Granted, we have to keep our eye on the a pawn, but there are plenty of opportunities for them to goof.

Rf3, 0-0 (I can't imagine them doing anything different here.)

Bf2, BxB (I like playing the bishop here now instead of waiting one move because maybe they won't trade and that would be very good for us).

RxB, Ra7 (I'm pretty sure this is forced here. Any bishop move and we will win the f pawn).

Now we can play:

0-0 OR Rf1 OR h4 OR Ke2 OR Rf6

I think this line gives us some good options and allows a few places for them to make mistakes. Our worst case is above, and that doesn't look so bad. I think we get a pretty good attack with h4 and then we work on gathering up those pawns over there and maybe getting a cheap mate.

So, is the choice Rf3 here?

 

[Psychopav]

I'm really struggling here. Here are some thoughts.

1. We don't really threaten to win a pawn with Ke2 because if we play Rc3 and they move the bishop and allow us to take the pawn, they can play Bb7 and get the pawn back at g2:

Ke2, 0-0

Rc3, Bb4 (if they play Be7 we get a jump on the f pawn with Rf3)

Rxc6, Bb7

Rb6, Bxg2

I think playing Ke2 right now slows us down and gives them time to recover from our attack on the f pawn. We are kind of a move behind now.

2. I think playing Rf3 gives us flexibility and still keeps the pressure on them. They are forced to react to protect the f pawn and we can get some good pressure over there. Granted, we have to keep our eye on the a pawn, but there are plenty of opportunities for them to goof.

Rf3, 0-0 (I can't imagine them doing anything different here.)

Bf2, BxB (I like playing the bishop here now instead of waiting one move because maybe they won't trade and that would be very good for us).

RxB, Ra7 (I'm pretty sure this is forced here. Any bishop move and we will win the f pawn).

Now we can play:

0-0 OR Rf1 OR h4 OR Ke2 OR Rf6

I think this line gives us some good options and allows a few places for them to make mistakes. Our worst case is above, and that doesn't look so bad. I think we get a pretty good attack with h4 and then we work on gathering up those pawns over there and maybe getting a cheap mate.

So, is the choice Rf3 here?

Seems like it but I don't think anyone is particularly thrilled with it, just the best option. I still think giving up the d file might not be the best option, and Rf1 might be better, but I am willing to defer.

Anyone want to explore pushing our h pawn instead? I started looking at that earlier but ultimately felt like we'd be in a better position to go there if and when they decide to castle.

 

[dancingbones]

I'm really struggling here. Here are some thoughts.

1. We don't really threaten to win a pawn with Ke2 because if we play Rc3 and they move the bishop and allow us to take the pawn, they can play Bb7 and get the pawn back at g2:

Ke2, 0-0

Rc3, Bb4 (if they play Be7 we get a jump on the f pawn with Rf3)

Rxc6, Bb7

Rb6, Bxg2

I think playing Ke2 right now slows us down and gives them time to recover from our attack on the f pawn. We are kind of a move behind now.

2. I think playing Rf3 gives us flexibility and still keeps the pressure on them. They are forced to react to protect the f pawn and we can get some good pressure over there. Granted, we have to keep our eye on the a pawn, but there are plenty of opportunities for them to goof.

Rf3, 0-0 (I can't imagine them doing anything different here.)

Bf2, BxB (I like playing the bishop here now instead of waiting one move because maybe they won't trade and that would be very good for us).

RxB, Ra7 (I'm pretty sure this is forced here. Any bishop move and we will win the f pawn).

Now we can play:

0-0 OR Rf1 OR h4 OR Ke2 OR Rf6

I think this line gives us some good options and allows a few places for them to make mistakes. Our worst case is above, and that doesn't look so bad. I think we get a pretty good attack with h4 and then we work on gathering up those pawns over there and maybe getting a cheap mate.

I'm not clear on why we want them to keep their bishop.

What if it goes:

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Be7

They now have the option to make moves to prevent the rooks lining up on the f pawn (by threatening to trade the f pawn for our e pawn - or at minimum getting it past the e pawn).

24. Bd4 c5

25. Bc3 Bb7

26. Rf2 Be4

27. Rf1 Bf5

Do we like this position?

What I like about Rf1 is that we are dictating what is going to happen. I just haven't had the time to work through the attack once we have them locked up.

 

[Psychopav]

Black:

They moved Qxc1.

Immediate thought:

1. Rc8

Is your move list on page 1 up-to-date? I don't see Qxc1 as an option.

 

[kutta]

I'm really struggling here. Here are some thoughts.

1. We don't really threaten to win a pawn with Ke2 because if we play Rc3 and they move the bishop and allow us to take the pawn, they can play Bb7 and get the pawn back at g2:

Ke2, 0-0

Rc3, Bb4 (if they play Be7 we get a jump on the f pawn with Rf3)

Rxc6, Bb7

Rb6, Bxg2

I think playing Ke2 right now slows us down and gives them time to recover from our attack on the f pawn. We are kind of a move behind now.

2. I think playing Rf3 gives us flexibility and still keeps the pressure on them. They are forced to react to protect the f pawn and we can get some good pressure over there. Granted, we have to keep our eye on the a pawn, but there are plenty of opportunities for them to goof.

Rf3, 0-0 (I can't imagine them doing anything different here.)

Bf2, BxB (I like playing the bishop here now instead of waiting one move because maybe they won't trade and that would be very good for us).

RxB, Ra7 (I'm pretty sure this is forced here. Any bishop move and we will win the f pawn).

Now we can play:

0-0 OR Rf1 OR h4 OR Ke2 OR Rf6

I think this line gives us some good options and allows a few places for them to make mistakes. Our worst case is above, and that doesn't look so bad. I think we get a pretty good attack with h4 and then we work on gathering up those pawns over there and maybe getting a cheap mate.

I'm not clear on why we want them to keep their bishop.

What if it goes:

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Be7

They now have the option to make moves to prevent the rooks lining up on the f pawn (by threatening to trade the f pawn for our e pawn - or at minimum getting it past the e pawn).

24. Bd4 c5

25. Bc3 Bb7

26. Rf2 Be4

27. Rf1 Bf5

Do we like this position?

What I like about Rf1 is that we are dictating what is going to happen. I just haven't had the time to work through the attack once we have them locked up.

My thought was that instead of 24. Bd4 we would play 24. 0-0 (or Rf1).

So it could play out like:

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Be7

24. O-O,

We plan to play Bf3 next move, and I think they have a lot of trouble holding onto the the f pawn.

What I like is that we are preventing them from playing Ra7 in this situation with our bishop on that diagonal.

 

[otello]

Black:

They moved Qxc1.

Immediate thought:

1. Rc8

Is your move list on page 1 up-to-date? I don't see Qxc1 as an option.

should be updated now.

 

[otello]

what about Rf1 instead Bf2?

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Rf1

 

[Psychopav]

Black:

They moved Qxc1.

Immediate thought:

1. Rc8

I agree.

I think we follow up with g5.

I'd rather do g5 first.

I could see

23. Qxc1 Rc8

24. Qe3 Qc7

25. Bxf6

Unless you think we're ready to trade queens here?

 

[Psychopav]

what about Rf1 instead Bf2?

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Rf1

Why not Rf1 first?

 

[otello]

what about Rf1 instead Bf2?

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Rf1

Why not Rf1 first?

It does keep pressure on the d file, at least temporarily. I know we want to get the order of these rook moves right. The d file aspect may make the difference in favor of Rf1.

 

[otello]

Black:

They moved Qxc1.

Immediate thought:

1. Rc8

I agree.I think we follow up with g5.

I'd rather do g5 first.I could see

23. Qxc1 Rc8

24. Qe3 Qc7

25. Bxf6

Unless you think we're ready to trade queens here?

our f pawn is under attack by their bishop.

 

[dancingbones]

I'm really struggling here. Here are some thoughts.

1. We don't really threaten to win a pawn with Ke2 because if we play Rc3 and they move the bishop and allow us to take the pawn, they can play Bb7 and get the pawn back at g2:

Ke2, 0-0

Rc3, Bb4 (if they play Be7 we get a jump on the f pawn with Rf3)

Rxc6, Bb7

Rb6, Bxg2

I think playing Ke2 right now slows us down and gives them time to recover from our attack on the f pawn. We are kind of a move behind now.

2. I think playing Rf3 gives us flexibility and still keeps the pressure on them. They are forced to react to protect the f pawn and we can get some good pressure over there. Granted, we have to keep our eye on the a pawn, but there are plenty of opportunities for them to goof.

Rf3, 0-0 (I can't imagine them doing anything different here.)

Bf2, BxB (I like playing the bishop here now instead of waiting one move because maybe they won't trade and that would be very good for us).

RxB, Ra7 (I'm pretty sure this is forced here. Any bishop move and we will win the f pawn).

Now we can play:

0-0 OR Rf1 OR h4 OR Ke2 OR Rf6

I think this line gives us some good options and allows a few places for them to make mistakes. Our worst case is above, and that doesn't look so bad. I think we get a pretty good attack with h4 and then we work on gathering up those pawns over there and maybe getting a cheap mate.

I'm not clear on why we want them to keep their bishop.

What if it goes:

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Be7

They now have the option to make moves to prevent the rooks lining up on the f pawn (by threatening to trade the f pawn for our e pawn - or at minimum getting it past the e pawn).

24. Bd4 c5

25. Bc3 Bb7

26. Rf2 Be4

27. Rf1 Bf5

Do we like this position?

What I like about Rf1 is that we are dictating what is going to happen. I just haven't had the time to work through the attack once we have them locked up.

My thought was that instead of 24. Bd4 we would play 24. 0-0 (or Rf1).

So it could play out like:

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Be7

24. O-O,

We plan to play Bf3 next move, and I think they have a lot of trouble holding onto the the f pawn.

What I like is that we are preventing them from playing Ra7 in this situation with our bishop on that diagonal.

I think if we play

24. O-O or Rf1, I think they play f5

25. exf6 Rxf6

And they've ended up trading that f pawn instead of losing it.

 

[dancingbones]

Black:

They moved Qxc1.

Immediate thought:

1. Rc8

I agree.

I think we follow up with g5.

I like this plan as well.

 

[otello]

Black:

They moved Qxc1.

Immediate thought:

1. Rc8

I agree.

I think we follow up with g5.

I like this plan as well.

I agree. It will also protect our f pawn.

 

[otello]

Black:

They moved Qxc1.

Immediate thought:

1. Rc8

I agree.I think we follow up with g5.

I like this plan as well.

I agree. It will also protect our f pawn.

consensus around Rc8 as black.

 

[kutta]

I'm really struggling here. Here are some thoughts.

1. We don't really threaten to win a pawn with Ke2 because if we play Rc3 and they move the bishop and allow us to take the pawn, they can play Bb7 and get the pawn back at g2:

Ke2, 0-0

Rc3, Bb4 (if they play Be7 we get a jump on the f pawn with Rf3)

Rxc6, Bb7

Rb6, Bxg2

I think playing Ke2 right now slows us down and gives them time to recover from our attack on the f pawn. We are kind of a move behind now.

2. I think playing Rf3 gives us flexibility and still keeps the pressure on them. They are forced to react to protect the f pawn and we can get some good pressure over there. Granted, we have to keep our eye on the a pawn, but there are plenty of opportunities for them to goof.

Rf3, 0-0 (I can't imagine them doing anything different here.)

Bf2, BxB (I like playing the bishop here now instead of waiting one move because maybe they won't trade and that would be very good for us).

RxB, Ra7 (I'm pretty sure this is forced here. Any bishop move and we will win the f pawn).

Now we can play:

0-0 OR Rf1 OR h4 OR Ke2 OR Rf6

I think this line gives us some good options and allows a few places for them to make mistakes. Our worst case is above, and that doesn't look so bad. I think we get a pretty good attack with h4 and then we work on gathering up those pawns over there and maybe getting a cheap mate.

I'm not clear on why we want them to keep their bishop.What if it goes:

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Be7

They now have the option to make moves to prevent the rooks lining up on the f pawn (by threatening to trade the f pawn for our e pawn - or at minimum getting it past the e pawn).

24. Bd4 c5

25. Bc3 Bb7

26. Rf2 Be4

27. Rf1 Bf5

Do we like this position?

What I like about Rf1 is that we are dictating what is going to happen. I just haven't had the time to work through the attack once we have them locked up.

My thought was that instead of 24. Bd4 we would play 24. 0-0 (or Rf1).So it could play out like:



22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Be7

24. O-O,



We plan to play Bf3 next move, and I think they have a lot of trouble holding onto the the f pawn.

What I like is that we are preventing them from playing Ra7 in this situation with our bishop on that diagonal.

I think if we play 24. O-O or Rf1, I think they play f5

25. exf6 Rxf6

And they've ended up trading that f pawn instead of losing it.

Yeah. Good point. In your example above I think their last move of Bg6 is even better for them than bishop f5.

I guess I'm coming around to forcing the bishop trade.

 

[dancingbones]

I'm really struggling here. Here are some thoughts.

1. We don't really threaten to win a pawn with Ke2 because if we play Rc3 and they move the bishop and allow us to take the pawn, they can play Bb7 and get the pawn back at g2:

Ke2, 0-0

Rc3, Bb4 (if they play Be7 we get a jump on the f pawn with Rf3)

Rxc6, Bb7

Rb6, Bxg2

I think playing Ke2 right now slows us down and gives them time to recover from our attack on the f pawn. We are kind of a move behind now.

2. I think playing Rf3 gives us flexibility and still keeps the pressure on them. They are forced to react to protect the f pawn and we can get some good pressure over there. Granted, we have to keep our eye on the a pawn, but there are plenty of opportunities for them to goof.

Rf3, 0-0 (I can't imagine them doing anything different here.)

Bf2, BxB (I like playing the bishop here now instead of waiting one move because maybe they won't trade and that would be very good for us).

RxB, Ra7 (I'm pretty sure this is forced here. Any bishop move and we will win the f pawn).

Now we can play:

0-0 OR Rf1 OR h4 OR Ke2 OR Rf6

I think this line gives us some good options and allows a few places for them to make mistakes. Our worst case is above, and that doesn't look so bad. I think we get a pretty good attack with h4 and then we work on gathering up those pawns over there and maybe getting a cheap mate.

I'm not clear on why we want them to keep their bishop.What if it goes:

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Be7

They now have the option to make moves to prevent the rooks lining up on the f pawn (by threatening to trade the f pawn for our e pawn - or at minimum getting it past the e pawn).

24. Bd4 c5

25. Bc3 Bb7

26. Rf2 Be4

27. Rf1 Bf5

Do we like this position?

What I like about Rf1 is that we are dictating what is going to happen. I just haven't had the time to work through the attack once we have them locked up.

My thought was that instead of 24. Bd4 we would play 24. 0-0 (or Rf1).So it could play out like:

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Be7

24. O-O,



We plan to play Bf3 next move, and I think they have a lot of trouble holding onto the the f pawn.

What I like is that we are preventing them from playing Ra7 in this situation with our bishop on that diagonal.

I think if we play 24. O-O or Rf1, I think they play f5

25. exf6 Rxf6

And they've ended up trading that f pawn instead of losing it.

Yeah. Good point. In your example above I think their last move of Bg6 is even better for them than bishop f5.

I guess I'm coming around to forcing the bishop trade.

I must not have been clear above.

I was looking at them pushing their f pawn 2 spaces to to f5 on move 24 and then us taking it en passant on move 25.

I think they would take with the rook rather than the bishop (if they take with the bishop we can move 26. c5 and have our rooks lined up. If they take with the rook, they force a rook trade and we've simply traded a rooks & pawns & they have opened up the king side much more).

I still don't know where the attack ends up if we go Rf1 & force the bishop trade, but I think we will be exerting more control over the direction of game - which is always good.

:flexeschessmuscles:

 

[dancingbones]

Option A

22. Rf1 O-O (same effect as K's analysis above)

23. Rdf3 Ra7

24 Bf2 (they must take B here) Bxf2

25. R1xf2 a5

Just saw that in the above example, they could also go Be7 on move 24, yes?

We need to put some thought into what our response would be for that.

 

[kutta]

I'm really struggling here. Here are some thoughts.

1. We don't really threaten to win a pawn with Ke2 because if we play Rc3 and they move the bishop and allow us to take the pawn, they can play Bb7 and get the pawn back at g2:

Ke2, 0-0

Rc3, Bb4 (if they play Be7 we get a jump on the f pawn with Rf3)

Rxc6, Bb7

Rb6, Bxg2

I think playing Ke2 right now slows us down and gives them time to recover from our attack on the f pawn. We are kind of a move behind now.

2. I think playing Rf3 gives us flexibility and still keeps the pressure on them. They are forced to react to protect the f pawn and we can get some good pressure over there. Granted, we have to keep our eye on the a pawn, but there are plenty of opportunities for them to goof.

Rf3, 0-0 (I can't imagine them doing anything different here.)

Bf2, BxB (I like playing the bishop here now instead of waiting one move because maybe they won't trade and that would be very good for us).

RxB, Ra7 (I'm pretty sure this is forced here. Any bishop move and we will win the f pawn).

Now we can play:

0-0 OR Rf1 OR h4 OR Ke2 OR Rf6

I think this line gives us some good options and allows a few places for them to make mistakes. Our worst case is above, and that doesn't look so bad. I think we get a pretty good attack with h4 and then we work on gathering up those pawns over there and maybe getting a cheap mate.

I'm not clear on why we want them to keep their bishop.What if it goes:

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Be7

They now have the option to make moves to prevent the rooks lining up on the f pawn (by threatening to trade the f pawn for our e pawn - or at minimum getting it past the e pawn).

24. Bd4 c5

25. Bc3 Bb7

26. Rf2 Be4

27. Rf1 Bf5

Do we like this position?

What I like about Rf1 is that we are dictating what is going to happen. I just haven't had the time to work through the attack once we have them locked up.

My thought was that instead of 24. Bd4 we would play 24. 0-0 (or Rf1).So it could play out like:

22. Rf3 O-O

23. Bf2 Be7

24. O-O,

We plan to play Bf3 next move, and I think they have a lot of trouble holding onto the the f pawn.

What I like is that we are preventing them from playing Ra7 in this situation with our bishop on that diagonal.

I think if we play 24. O-O or Rf1, I think they play f5

25. exf6 Rxf6

And they've ended up trading that f pawn instead of losing it.

Yeah. Good point. In your example above I think their last move of Bg6 is even better for them than bishop f5.

I guess I'm coming around to forcing the bishop trade.

I must not have been clear above.

I was looking at them pushing their f pawn 2 spaces to to f5 on move 24 and then us taking it en passant on move 25.

I think they would take with the rook rather than the bishop (if they take with the bishop we can move 26. c5 and have our rooks lined up. If they take with the rook, they force a rook trade and we've simply traded a rooks & pawns & they have opened up the king side much more).

I still don't know where the attack ends up if we go Rf1 & force the bishop trade, but I think we will be exerting more control over the direction of game - which is always good.

:flexeschessmuscles:

We're getting wrapped around the axle a little. I was talking about your first response to my post. I think we are on the same page now.

 

[kutta]

Option A

22. Rf1 O-O (same effect as K's analysis above)

23. Rdf3 Ra7

24 Bf2 (they must take B here) Bxf2

25. R1xf2 a5

Just saw that in the above example, they could also go Be7 on move 24, yes?

We need to put some thought into what our response would be for that.

If you are talking about move 24 in your post quoted here, can't we play BxR if they play Be7?

 

[otello]

Option A

22. Rf1 O-O (same effect as K's analysis above)

23. Rdf3 Ra7

24 Bf2 (they must take B here) Bxf2

25. R1xf2 a5



Just saw that in the above example, they could also go Be7 on move 24, yes?



We need to put some thought into what our response would be for that.

If you are talking about move 24 in your post quoted here, can't we play BxR if they play Be7?

that is correct. They would be forced to trade bishops here.

 

[otello]

I have a busy day at work today, so I may not be able to check in. We seem to be down to Rf1 or Rf3. This is a close call. I am leaning toward Rf1, but I could definitely live with Rf3.