"Tell me about the last time you saw another man's sack." (1 Viewer)

[larry_boy_44]

But I'm not denying them any rights, nor do I support denying them any rights.

That's the biggest reason this isn't going anywhere, it is automatically assumed that anyone who believes being gay is a sin is trying to deny someone rights, so those who support gay marriage are seeking to deny the rights of Christians to believe what their religion teaches.

You can keep saying it, but everyone else sees it for what it is... a huge stretch at best. I understand you need to believe you're not doing anything wrong though.

Gays already have the right to get married, right? So keeping the law as-is doesn't deny them the right to marry. That's your loophole, correct?

What part of "I couldn't care less what the government did or changes" wasn't clear to you?

I'm not the one on the picket lines, I'm not the one that wrote the laws years and years ago. I'm not the one voting for anything. I don't care.

If you want to point to big bad Christians who are out denying "rights" to people, I'm not the one to point to because I don't care. I've said that repeatedly, I don't.

Is homosexuality a sin? Absolutely.

Is it really sad that some of the rights of married couples aren't extended to homosexual couples? Yeah. It is. I totally see how that is awful and have no problem with it being fixed.

I just don't care.

I understand why Christians feel the way they do (which is why I posted what I did in this thread). I also understand why people who support gay marriage and think homosexuality is not immoral feel the way they do.

But what the government does doesn't matter to me. It isn't what I am focused on and one way or the other it has very little effect on me personally.

So, yes, I'm not the one your looking for. I posted in this thread because of the consistent misportrayal of things and the disrespect given to God and Christianity in general, not because I'm some crazy Bible-thumping picketer at a funeral for a soldier.

I'm not that guy (in fact I dislike those guys as much or more than you do). But that doesn't mean I'm going to change what I know God has said about the morality of things. But this world has made its choice and I can't un-make it for them. They're gonna walk that path whether its through homosexuality or other sin, their rebellion to God is the point, and that isn't going to change based on what the government says.

But I'm not denying them any rights, nor do I support denying them any rights. That's the biggest reason this isn't going anywhere, it is automatically assumed that anyone who believes being gay is a sin is trying to deny someone rights, so those who support gay marriage are seeking to deny the rights of Christians to believe what their religion teaches.

Wait, so you're not trying to deny them rights? So then you're okay with gay marriage? What in the hell has this thread been about then?

Me stating my Christian view on things and trying to explain where other Christians are coming from when I can.

Other people coming up with new and inventive ways to accuse me of things I don't think and accuse me (and other Christians) of being a bigot.

Gotcha. I think even the most ardent gay marriage supporters are fine with religious people not "recognizing" gay people as being married as long as you understand that your beliefs shouldn't really have an impact on the law.

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

Link?

 

[B-Deep]

Does anyone disagree with what Charles Barkley said here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=As-ITvXlTPI#t=145s

if people have the right to come out against this, people have the right to come out against people that come out against this

that's kind of how it works

I agree, but that is kind of the whole point: tolerance has to work both ways. Sadly, intolerance exists way too often on both sides of this topic.

that's not the point

there is no requirement to be tolerant of intolerance. What that really means is don't express your opinions about my intolerance.

the point is no one has a right to express their views and not have others express THEIR views as well. This includes Jason Collins. He has to expect people to speak out against him, and that is their right. But those people have to expect the same. The issue is the tide has turned and most of the voices are coming to the defense of Collins. This causes those who do not to play the victim card and say "we should not be crucified for our views". No one has freedom from the consequences of their speech.

But what is "intolerance" really?

Am I intolerant of people who are having premarital sex when i say it is sinful for them to be doing so? If not, why is it different when I say the same thing about people have homosexual sex? If so, why? Why does it matter?

I get why its a big deal to want gay marriage to be legal, I understand that. I don't understand the seeming need to attack people for saying that they believe homosexuality is immoral. If you don't care that I think smoking, drinking, recreational drug use, premarital sex, extramarital sex, gambling, and countless other things that the majority of Americans do is immoral, why do you care so much about this one?

Because I promise you that if you gave the majority of Christians the ability to criminalize adultery or gambling or alcohol, they would. Seriously, try and bring back prohibition and I bet you'd have the evangelicals behind you. I know they're very against legalizing marijuana because "its immoral

Why do you think they try to make abortions illegal? Try to stop schools from handing out condoms?

There have been multiple Christian schools and other orgs that have gotten in trouble in the last couple years for firing women who got pregnant out of marriage when they worked for them. This isn't just a gay thing, that's just the one that gets the most media attention and its the one that has the most people "firing back".

Because i can give you example after example of homosexuals who are being denied rights simply for being gay. Molst of america believes gay is who those people are and thus, denying them rights or belittling them is wrong

much like it was wrong when African Americans were denied rights a belittled

it is really as simple as that

and just as you have the right to call them sinners, i have the right to tell you that you are intolerant. You can disagree with me, and say so, but nothing protects you from me and the giant mass of people who agree with me telling you you are wrong

But I'm not denying them any rights, nor do I support denying them any rights.

That's the biggest reason this isn't going anywhere, it is automatically assumed that anyone who believes being gay is a sin is trying to deny someone rights, so those who support gay marriage are seeking to deny the rights of Christians to believe what their religion teaches.

I never said YOU were

I said they have been denied rights, and the justification has been "they are sinners".Perhaps you should focus your energy on convincing the minority that thinks like you to do so in the silent manner in which you do. Until then, though, the reason why it is intolerance is as I stated. People are being denied rights for being different and America does not like that.

 

[B-Deep]

But I'm not denying them any rights, nor do I support denying them any rights.

That's the biggest reason this isn't going anywhere, it is automatically assumed that anyone who believes being gay is a sin is trying to deny someone rights, so those who support gay marriage are seeking to deny the rights of Christians to believe what their religion teaches.

You can keep saying it, but everyone else sees it for what it is... a huge stretch at best. I understand you need to believe you're not doing anything wrong though.

Gays already have the right to get married, right? So keeping the law as-is doesn't deny them the right to marry. That's your loophole, correct?

What part of "I couldn't care less what the government did or changes" wasn't clear to you?

I'm not the one on the picket lines, I'm not the one that wrote the laws years and years ago. I'm not the one voting for anything. I don't care.

If you want to point to big bad Christians who are out denying "rights" to people, I'm not the one to point to because I don't care. I've said that repeatedly, I don't.

Is homosexuality a sin? Absolutely.

Is it really sad that some of the rights of married couples aren't extended to homosexual couples? Yeah. It is. I totally see how that is awful and have no problem with it being fixed.

I just don't care.

I understand why Christians feel the way they do (which is why I posted what I did in this thread). I also understand why people who support gay marriage and think homosexuality is not immoral feel the way they do.

But what the government does doesn't matter to me. It isn't what I am focused on and one way or the other it has very little effect on me personally.

So, yes, I'm not the one your looking for. I posted in this thread because of the consistent misportrayal of things and the disrespect given to God and Christianity in general, not because I'm some crazy Bible-thumping picketer at a funeral for a soldier.

I'm not that guy (in fact I dislike those guys as much or more than you do). But that doesn't mean I'm going to change what I know God has said about the morality of things. But this world has made its choice and I can't un-make it for them. They're gonna walk that path whether its through homosexuality or other sin, their rebellion to God is the point, and that isn't going to change based on what the government says.

>

But I'm not denying them any rights, nor do I support denying them any rights. That's the biggest reason this isn't going anywhere, it is automatically assumed that anyone who believes being gay is a sin is trying to deny someone rights, so those who support gay marriage are seeking to deny the rights of Christians to believe what their religion teaches.

Wait, so you're not trying to deny them rights? So then you're okay with gay marriage? What in the hell has this thread been about then?

Me stating my Christian view on things and trying to explain where other Christians are coming from when I can.

Other people coming up with new and inventive ways to accuse me of things I don't think and accuse me (and other Christians) of being a bigot.

Gotcha. I think even the most ardent gay marriage supporters are fine with religious people not "recognizing" gay people as being married as long as you understand that your beliefs shouldn't really have an impact on the law.

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

see

common intolerant strawman

Are catholic churches routinely forced to perform islamic weddings?

and speech is not a hate crime

 

[roadkill1292]

The other side needs a far better advocate for its cause than gb Larry, who is making arguments that have been thoroughly debunked months, maybe even years, ago.

 

[SWC]

People are being denied rights for being different and America does not like that.

neither does god brohan no matter what larry boy says

 

[larry_boy_44]

But I'm not denying them any rights, nor do I support denying them any rights.

That's the biggest reason this isn't going anywhere, it is automatically assumed that anyone who believes being gay is a sin is trying to deny someone rights, so those who support gay marriage are seeking to deny the rights of Christians to believe what their religion teaches.

You can keep saying it, but everyone else sees it for what it is... a huge stretch at best. I understand you need to believe you're not doing anything wrong though.

Gays already have the right to get married, right? So keeping the law as-is doesn't deny them the right to marry. That's your loophole, correct?

What part of "I couldn't care less what the government did or changes" wasn't clear to you?

I'm not the one on the picket lines, I'm not the one that wrote the laws years and years ago. I'm not the one voting for anything. I don't care.

If you want to point to big bad Christians who are out denying "rights" to people, I'm not the one to point to because I don't care. I've said that repeatedly, I don't.

Is homosexuality a sin? Absolutely.

Is it really sad that some of the rights of married couples aren't extended to homosexual couples? Yeah. It is. I totally see how that is awful and have no problem with it being fixed.

I just don't care.

I understand why Christians feel the way they do (which is why I posted what I did in this thread). I also understand why people who support gay marriage and think homosexuality is not immoral feel the way they do.

But what the government does doesn't matter to me. It isn't what I am focused on and one way or the other it has very little effect on me personally.

So, yes, I'm not the one your looking for. I posted in this thread because of the consistent misportrayal of things and the disrespect given to God and Christianity in general, not because I'm some crazy Bible-thumping picketer at a funeral for a soldier.

I'm not that guy (in fact I dislike those guys as much or more than you do). But that doesn't mean I'm going to change what I know God has said about the morality of things. But this world has made its choice and I can't un-make it for them. They're gonna walk that path whether its through homosexuality or other sin, their rebellion to God is the point, and that isn't going to change based on what the government says.

>

But I'm not denying them any rights, nor do I support denying them any rights. That's the biggest reason this isn't going anywhere, it is automatically assumed that anyone who believes being gay is a sin is trying to deny someone rights, so those who support gay marriage are seeking to deny the rights of Christians to believe what their religion teaches.

Wait, so you're not trying to deny them rights? So then you're okay with gay marriage? What in the hell has this thread been about then?

Me stating my Christian view on things and trying to explain where other Christians are coming from when I can.

Other people coming up with new and inventive ways to accuse me of things I don't think and accuse me (and other Christians) of being a bigot.

Gotcha. I think even the most ardent gay marriage supporters are fine with religious people not "recognizing" gay people as being married as long as you understand that your beliefs shouldn't really have an impact on the law.

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

see

common intolerant strawman

Are catholic churches routinely forced to perform islamic weddings?

and speech is not a hate crime

I know they AREN'T.

But I also fully know there are people who would like them to be (even if they are, as of now, a small minority).

I didn't mean it to be some big huge thing, I know its not. It just seemed an appropriate point to mention it as you'd get a lot further if you led with "we are still protecting your rights to free speech" instead of "shut up, you intolerant bigot". Both are gonna get you where you want to go, but one will get you there faster and with less opposition.

 

[larry_boy_44]

The other side needs a far better advocate for its cause than gb Larry, who is making arguments that have been thoroughly debunked months, maybe even years, ago.

like what?

When I said things that weren't arguments that I'm fully aware aren't majority opinions or anywhere close to actually happening in reality but represent real fears that people have that would be greatly helpful to the "other side" if they stated that they weren't planning on infringing on them?

Sure, I guess someone else could say that better... But no one is.

 

[SWC]

not only do i think larry is full of mularky i also think that most christians do not believe for one second that god taught us to be bigoted or to treat our brother brohan mans as second class citizens just be good to eachother and treat everyone equal not real hard of a concept even for a dummy like me

You are right, he didn't teach us to treat others as second class citizens. (which, btw, I don't do)

However, that doesn't mean He didn't teach an exact moral code and a morality that needs to be followed. We can't just go "I luv you brohan" and do whatever we want. That's not how it works.

Romans 6:1-3 (The Message)

>So what do we do? Keep on sinning so God can keep on forgiving? I should hope not! If we’ve left the country where sin is sovereign, how can we still live in our old house there? Or didn’t you realize we packed up and left there for good? That is what happened in baptism. When we went under the water, we left the old country of sin behind; when we came up out of the water, we entered into the new country of grace—a new life in a new land!

we are to leave the life of sin (and the sin involved) behind after salvation (and baptism).

what you do is find a few words here and there to support your own personal non god agenda of separation and bigotry and then twist the bible and you call everyone sinners like you are the final judge of a mans soul well larry i think thats blasphemy brohan and when you call someone an unrepententant sinner you are in fact calling them a second class citizen whether you are coming right out and saying it or not and one more thing there are a more and more christian churches out there that have broken ranks and are performing gay marriages so bam the wave is coming and you can be on the right side of it how about you come over to the good side on this one brohan i know you can do it

 

[Moe.]

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

I've yet to encounter anyone that thinks churches should be forced into performing gay marriages against their will. That's ridiculous.

 

[larry_boy_44]

not only do i think larry is full of mularky i also think that most christians do not believe for one second that god taught us to be bigoted or to treat our brother brohan mans as second class citizens just be good to eachother and treat everyone equal not real hard of a concept even for a dummy like me

You are right, he didn't teach us to treat others as second class citizens. (which, btw, I don't do)

However, that doesn't mean He didn't teach an exact moral code and a morality that needs to be followed. We can't just go "I luv you brohan" and do whatever we want. That's not how it works.

Romans 6:1-3 (The Message)

>So what do we do? Keep on sinning so God can keep on forgiving? I should hope not! If we’ve left the country where sin is sovereign, how can we still live in our old house there? Or didn’t you realize we packed up and left there for good? That is what happened in baptism. When we went under the water, we left the old country of sin behind; when we came up out of the water, we entered into the new country of grace—a new life in a new land!<

/span>

we are to leave the life of sin (and the sin involved) behind after salvation (and baptism).

what you do is find a few words here and there to support your own personal non god agenda of separation and bigotry and then twist the bible and you call everyone sinners like you are the final judge of a mans soul well larry i think thats blasphemy brohan and when you call someone an unrepententant sinner you are in fact calling them a second class citizen whether you are coming right out and saying it or not and one more thing there are a more and more christian churches out there that have broken ranks and are performing gay marriages so bam the wave is coming and you can be on the right side of it how about you come over to the good side on this one brohan i know you can do it

The wave "can come" all it wants, but you can't live for God and in sin at the same time, period. We only can have one master, and it is either God or our flesh (sin).

I'm gonna stay on the side that has God on it, brohan. You're welcome to join me if you want. Because there is so much more to this Christian walk and this world around us than you realize (and I can tell that from your post). Its so much bigger and deeper than most people realize.

 

[larry_boy_44]

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

I've yet to encounter anyone that thinks churches should be forced into performing gay marriages against their will. That's ridiculous.

"Oh this is a pretty church! Let's go see if we can get married here" says the gay couple.

They go in, meet the pastor, who tells them "We're sorry, but we believe homosexuality is a sin, and therefore don't rent out our building to homosexual couples who are looking to marry".

BAM! Lawsuit.

Why? Because the church does rent out to couples who had premarital sex or done other things the church disagrees with as well. Thus they are denying "rights" based on sexual orientation, which I'm pretty sure is illegal. This has already been done to a number of non-church but religiously affiliated businesses. Its only a matter of time before it happens to a church.

 

[roadkill1292]

The other side needs a far better advocate for its cause than gb Larry, who is making arguments that have been thoroughly debunked months, maybe even years, ago.

When I said things that weren't arguments that I'm fully aware aren't majority opinions or anywhere close to actually happening in reality but represent real fears that people have that would be greatly helpful to the "other side" if they stated that they weren't planning on infringing on them?

For starters, you need to pray for the health and recovery of that sentence.

 

[dgreen]

People are being denied rights for being different and America does not like that.

neither does god brohan no matter what larry boy says

I am confused by your uppercase letters and that dot at the end of the first row.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

I've yet to encounter anyone that thinks churches should be forced into performing gay marriages against their will. That's ridiculous.

"Oh this is a pretty church! Let's go see if we can get married here" says the gay couple.

They go in, meet the pastor, who tells them "We're sorry, but we believe homosexuality is a sin, and therefore don't rent out our building to homosexual couples who are looking to marry".

BAM! Lawsuit.

Why? Because the church does rent out to couples who had premarital sex or done other things the church disagrees with as well. Thus they are denying "rights" based on sexual orientation, which I'm pretty sure is illegal. This has already been done to a number of non-church but religiously affiliated businesses. Its only a matter of time before it happens to a church.

You would think someone as religious as you are, and as concerned with persecution of religion as you seem to me, would have a better handle on the First Amendment. It's the very first one. You don't even have to scroll down or anything.

 

[larry_boy_44]

The other side needs a far better advocate for its cause than gb Larry, who is making arguments that have been thoroughly debunked months, maybe even years, ago.

When I said things that weren't arguments that I'm fully aware aren't majority opinions or anywhere close to actually happening in reality but represent real fears that people have that would be greatly helpful to the "other side" if they stated that they weren't planning on infringing on them?

For starters, you need to pray for the health and recovery of that sentence.

Wow... that is bad. Let me try this:

You mean when I said that that I was fully aware aren't majority opinions or close to actually happening for the purpose of presenting real fears that people have? I did so because I assumed it would be helpful to the "other side" if they understood how people felt and acted in a way like they cared on some level.

Better?

 

[Slapdash]

####ty quote function makes this thread impossible to follow.

 

[SWC]

People are being denied rights for being different and America does not like that.

neither does god brohan no matter what larry boy says

I am confused by your uppercase letters and that dot at the end of the first row.

i tried to quote b deep and i am not good at it i think i deleted the boxes my bad with that brohan sorry for any confusion

 

[larry_boy_44]

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

I've yet to encounter anyone that thinks churches should be forced into performing gay marriages against their will. That's ridiculous.

"Oh this is a pretty church! Let's go see if we can get married here" says the gay couple.

They go in, meet the pastor, who tells them "We're sorry, but we believe homosexuality is a sin, and therefore don't rent out our building to homosexual couples who are looking to marry".

BAM! Lawsuit.

Why? Because the church does rent out to couples who had premarital sex or done other things the church disagrees with as well. Thus they are denying "rights" based on sexual orientation, which I'm pretty sure is illegal. This has already been done to a number of non-church but religiously affiliated businesses. Its only a matter of time before it happens to a church.

You would think someone as religious as you are, and as concerned with persecution of religion as you seem to me, would have a better handle on the First Amendment. It's the very first one. You don't even have to scroll down or anything.

I know what the first amendment says. I understand that.

You are aware that businesses have already lost lawsuits for not allowing gay couples to have ceremonies/receptions at their establishments, right?

The Constitution is a living document, who is to say that it isn't decided the the gay couple's right to marry is being infringed upon by the church's refusal to let them use the facility?

I would like to hope that it wouldn't happen, but I wouldn't put anything past our world anymore.

 

[SWC]

larry you and me just disagree but i would probably still buy you a beer assuming you do not think that is a sin or something take that to the bank my work is done here lord of the brohans

 

[dgreen]

People are being denied rights for being different and America does not like that.

neither does god brohan no matter what larry boy says

I am confused by your uppercase letters and that dot at the end of the first row.

i tried to quote b deep and i am not good at it i think i deleted the boxes my bad with that brohan sorry for any confusion

OH, THANK GOODNESS!

I thought you had changed, brohan. Glad you are still same ol' SWCer.

 

[larry_boy_44]

People are being denied rights for being different and America does not like that.

neither does god brohan no matter what larry boy says

I am confused by your uppercase letters and that dot at the end of the first row.

i tried to quote b deep and i am not good at it i think i deleted the boxes my bad with that brohan sorry for any confusion

Holy cow, you're in Milwaukee? You know we live in the same city, right?

 

[larry_boy_44]

larry you and me just disagree but i would probably still buy you a beer assuming you do not think that is a sin or something take that to the bank my work is done here lord of the brohans

I don't drink, but wouldn't be opposed to the non-alcoholic version of that.

 

[squistion]

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

I've yet to encounter anyone that thinks churches should be forced into performing gay marriages against their will. That's ridiculous.

"Oh this is a pretty church! Let's go see if we can get married here" says the gay couple.

They go in, meet the pastor, who tells them "We're sorry, but we believe homosexuality is a sin, and therefore don't rent out our building to homosexual couples who are looking to marry".

BAM! Lawsuit.

Why? Because the church does rent out to couples who had premarital sex or done other things the church disagrees with as well. Thus they are denying "rights" based on sexual orientation, which I'm pretty sure is illegal. This has already been done to a number of non-church but religiously affiliated businesses. Its only a matter of time before it happens to a church.

A non-church but religiously affiliated business that rents facilities to the general public is not a church, that is the difference. A private business that rents facilities to the general public or is open to the public for business (like a restaurant) is not free to discriminate for religious reasons against minorities the law protects.

 

[SWC]

People are being denied rights for being different and America does not like that.

neither does god brohan no matter what larry boy says

I am confused by your uppercase letters and that dot at the end of the first row.

i tried to quote b deep and i am not good at it i think i deleted the boxes my bad with that brohan sorry for any confusion

OH, THANK GOODNESS!

I thought you had changed, brohan. Glad you are still same ol' SWCer.

hey man no worries

 

[SWC]

People are being denied rights for being different and America does not like that.

neither does god brohan no matter what larry boy says

I am confused by your uppercase letters and that dot at the end of the first row.

i tried to quote b deep and i am not good at it i think i deleted the boxes my bad with that brohan sorry for any confusion

Holy cow, you're in Milwaukee? You know we live in the same city, right?

god put me here to balance you out

 

[TobiasFunke]

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

I've yet to encounter anyone that thinks churches should be forced into performing gay marriages against their will. That's ridiculous.

"Oh this is a pretty church! Let's go see if we can get married here" says the gay couple.

They go in, meet the pastor, who tells them "We're sorry, but we believe homosexuality is a sin, and therefore don't rent out our building to homosexual couples who are looking to marry".

BAM! Lawsuit.

Why? Because the church does rent out to couples who had premarital sex or done other things the church disagrees with as well. Thus they are denying "rights" based on sexual orientation, which I'm pretty sure is illegal. This has already been done to a number of non-church but religiously affiliated businesses. Its only a matter of time before it happens to a church.

You would think someone as religious as you are, and as concerned with persecution of religion as you seem to me, would have a better handle on the First Amendment. It's the very first one. You don't even have to scroll down or anything.

I know what the first amendment says. I understand that.

You are aware that businesses have already lost lawsuits for not allowing gay couples to have ceremonies/receptions at their establishments, right?

The Constitution is a living document, who is to say that it isn't decided the the gay couple's right to marry is being infringed upon by the church's refusal to let them use the facility?

I would like to hope that it wouldn't happen, but I wouldn't put anything past our world anymore.

Are you sure you understand the First Amendment? Because businesses are not entitled to the protections of the First Amendment's free exercise clause, but churches are. This is not a complicated issue with gray areas. There is zero chance that anyone would ever successfully sue a church on a claim of sexual orientation discrimination because the church wouldn't marry them. If someone introduces an Amendment to amend the First Amendment's free exercise clause, you can have the debate when it happens. Until that time (which will never ever come) this is pure nonsense that is not worth contemplating.

 

[larry_boy_44]

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

I've yet to encounter anyone that thinks churches should be forced into performing gay marriages against their will. That's ridiculous.

"Oh this is a pretty church! Let's go see if we can get married here" says the gay couple.

They go in, meet the pastor, who tells them "We're sorry, but we believe homosexuality is a sin, and therefore don't rent out our building to homosexual couples who are looking to marry".

BAM! Lawsuit.

Why? Because the church does rent out to couples who had premarital sex or done other things the church disagrees with as well. Thus they are denying "rights" based on sexual orientation, which I'm pretty sure is illegal. This has already been done to a number of non-church but religiously affiliated businesses. Its only a matter of time before it happens to a church.

You would think someone as religious as you are, and as concerned with persecution of religion as you seem to me, would have a better handle on the First Amendment. It's the very first one. You don't even have to scroll down or anything.

I know what the first amendment says. I understand that.

You are aware that businesses have already lost lawsuits for not allowing gay couples to have ceremonies/receptions at their establishments, right?

The Constitution is a living document, who is to say that it isn't decided the the gay couple's right to marry is being infringed upon by the church's refusal to let them use the facility?

I would like to hope that it wouldn't happen, but I wouldn't put anything past our world anymore.

Are you sure you understand the First Amendment? Because businesses are not entitled to the protections of the First Amendment's free exercise clause, but churches are. This is not a complicated issue with gray areas. There is zero chance that anyone would ever successfully sue a church on a claim of sexual orientation discrimination because the church wouldn't marry them. If someone introduces an Amendment to amend the First Amendment's free exercise clause, you can have the debate when it happens. Until that time (which will never ever come) this is pure nonsense that is not worth contemplating.

I understand that. I'm just saying I could see the logic that would lead to someone trying it and I see the logic that leads people to be afraid of it.

It might not be good logic, but I understand where people are coming from. I do that.

 

[mad sweeney]

Does anyone disagree with what Charles Barkley said here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=As-ITvXlTPI#t=145s

if people have the right to come out against this, people have the right to come out against people that come out against this

that's kind of how it works

I agree, but that is kind of the whole point: tolerance has to work both ways. Sadly, intolerance exists way too often on both sides of this topic.

that's not the pointthere is no requirement to be tolerant of intolerance. What that really means is don't express your opinions about my intolerance.

the point is no one has a right to express their views and not have others express THEIR views as well. This includes Jason Collins. He has to expect people to speak out against him, and that is their right. But those people have to expect the same. The issue is the tide has turned and most of the voices are coming to the defense of Collins. This causes those who do not to play the victim card and say "we should not be crucified for our views". No one has freedom from the consequences of their speech.

But what is "intolerance" really?

Am I intolerant of people who are having premarital sex when i say it is sinful for them to be doing so? If not, why is it different when I say the same thing about people have homosexual sex? If so, why? Why does it matter?

I get why its a big deal to want gay marriage to be legal, I understand that. I don't understand the seeming need to attack people for saying that they believe homosexuality is immoral. If you don't care that I think smoking, drinking, recreational drug use, premarital sex, extramarital sex, gambling, and countless other things that the majority of Americans do is immoral, why do you care so much about this one?

Because I promise you that if you gave the majority of Christians the ability to criminalize adultery or gambling or alcohol, they would. Seriously, try and bring back prohibition and I bet you'd have the evangelicals behind you. I know they're very against legalizing marijuana because "its immoral

Why do you think they try to make abortions illegal? Try to stop schools from handing out condoms?

There have been multiple Christian schools and other orgs that have gotten in trouble in the last couple years for firing women who got pregnant out of marriage when they worked for them. This isn't just a gay thing, that's just the one that gets the most media attention and its the one that has the most people "firing back".

Because i can give you example after example of homosexuals who are being denied rights simply for being gay. Molst of america believes gay is who those people are and thus, denying them rights or belittling them is wrong

much like it was wrong when African Americans were denied rights a belittled

it is really as simple as that

and just as you have the right to call them sinners, i have the right to tell you that you are intolerant. You can disagree with me, and say so, but nothing protects you from me and the giant mass of people who agree with me telling you you are wrong

But I'm not denying them any rights, nor do I support denying them any rights.

That's the biggest reason this isn't going anywhere, it is automatically assumed that anyone who believes being gay is a sin is trying to deny someone rights, so those who support gay marriage are seeking to deny the rights of Christians to believe what their religion teaches.

No, we're denying you the opportunity to deny rights to others because you don't like it. Believe whatever fairy tale you want, but when you try to force others to live by the way you want them to then you're wrong.

Let me requote what I just said again for you since it obviously wasn't read the first time you saw it:

>But I'm not denying them any rights, nor do I support denying them any rights.

That's the biggest reason this isn't going anywhere, it is automatically assumed that anyone who believes being gay is a sin is trying to deny someone rights, so those who support gay marriage are seeking to deny the rights of Christians to believe what their religion teaches.

We're not always talking specifically and solely about you or this NBA player. I've mentioned that before but you obviously didn't read it the first time. I've also mentioned keeping things in context which you obviously don't remember either.

 

[Moe.]

####ty quote function makes this thread impossible to follow.

It's no different than the old one and I think It's actually easier to delete nested quotes on the new board. You don't have to worry about the [] and [/] matching up.

 

[Slapdash]

####ty quote function makes this thread impossible to follow.

It's no different than the old one and I think It's actually easier to delete nested quotes on the new board. You don't have to worry about the [] and [/] matching up.

When I posted that you couldn't see the names of anyone in the quote boxes.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

####ty quote function makes this thread impossible to follow.

It's no different than the old one and I think It's actually easier to delete nested quotes on the new board. You don't have to worry about the [] and [/] matching up.

Its terrible. Its worse. Its clunky. Its 1996 re-invented.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I just can't fathom worshiping a god and belonging to a religious organization that teaches that there's something totally wrong with someone's private sex life. The whole concept is laughable, really.

If that's the ultimate true religion and I'm going to hell for not believing in it, so be it; I don't want to be a part of that club, if that's what it takes.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

####ty quote function makes this thread impossible to follow.

Yeah, you're really missing out by not being able to follow this one closely.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I just can't fathom worshiping a god and belonging to a religious organization that teaches that there's something totally wrong with someone's private sex life. The whole concept is laughable, really.If that's the ultimate true religion and I'm going to hell for not believing in it, so be it; I don't want to be a part of that club, if that's what it takes.

They are misrepresenting the teachings to allow themselves to be biased against people who are different. Their history of it cant be denied. Do they speak about non-virgin women who marry and how they could be killed in the town square? Or two different fabrics in their clothes? Or doing stuff on the sabbath? Nope.Did you hear them earlier saying that some slavery was different (because of their book) as opposed to other slavery? Why yes, yes hey did.They totally pick and choose based upon their own sensibilities. Its terrible.

 

[adonis]

May you live long enough to see how wrong this comment is.

Also, you know other Christians are out there who don't believe it's a sin, right? They read the same bible you do, but disagree on this point. To be so absolute about it seems to ignore a fair amount of different opinions, among chrisitans, on the subject.

Is homosexuality a sin? Absolutely.

 

[adonis]

I just can't fathom worshiping a god and belonging to a religious organization that teaches that there's something totally wrong with someone's private sex life. The whole concept is laughable, really.If that's the ultimate true religion and I'm going to hell for not believing in it, so be it; I don't want to be a part of that club, if that's what it takes.

the problem is that the moderates out there in the religious world aren't the ones on internet forums diving into religious debates on what is or isn't sin.

They're too busy being out in the world doing good things and treating people well to worry about the legalities of who is in or who is out.

 

[the moops]

Has the name Jason Collins even been mentioned in the past 4 pages?

 

[mad sweeney]

Has the name Jason Collins even been mentioned in the past 4 pages?

I referred to him as "an NBA player" recently.

 

[eoMMan]

13 pages?! Jesus ####### christ.

 

[Toad_1234]

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

I've yet to encounter anyone that thinks churches should be forced into performing gay marriages against their will. That's ridiculous.

I've yet to encounter anyone that thinks churches should be forced into performing gay marriages against their will. That's ridiculous.

You're full of crap. This is OBVIOUSLY coming in the future. It's just not here yet. In Canada, it's hate speech to even speak out against gays. It won't be long until that's in the US and gays and libs try to force churches them marry them claiming it's discrimination.

Morons like madsweeney will be mocking Christians saying they are paranoid about persecution then 5 years down the road when it's here, he'll say well that's because we're right and you're a bigot. Most of us see it coming a mile away.

 

[Toad_1234]

As for Jason Collins, where is the courage in coming out as a "current" player when the season and his career is now over? I'm sure he'll get a multi-million dollar book deal and be able to play the Chris Kluwe/Ayanbadejo gay victim card to try and bully some team into signing him.

Not much honor in lying to your girlfriend for 8 years hiding that you're gay. Or is he bi? So much for the born gay argument. It's really a sad, sad day for America. More rotting of the culture at its finest.

I could really care less that Jason Collins is a ***. I'm just sick of these types of stories. At some point, sports needs to return to being sports and not a political arena. Very tiresome.

When Bill Clinton was committing adultery in the White House and lying under oath, we were told to mind our own business. What 2 people do is their own business.

When people stump for queer marriage, they tell us what 2 people do in the privacy of their own home (or more often public bathroom) is their own business.

Then why do queers feel the need to come out and tell the world about their sexuality? The hypocrisy is stunning, even for liberals and that's saying something.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

As for Jason Collins, where is the courage in coming out as a "current" player when the season and his career is now over? I'm sure he'll get a multi-million dollar book deal and be able to play the Chris Kluwe/Ayanbadejo gay victim card to try and bully some team into signing him.

Not much honor in lying to your girlfriend for 8 years hiding that you're gay. Or is he bi? So much for the born gay argument. It's really a sad, sad day for America. More rotting of the culture at its finest.

I could really care less that Jason Collins is a ***. I'm just sick of these types of stories. At some point, sports needs to return to being sports and not a political arena. Very tiresome.

When Bill Clinton was committing adultery in the White House and lying under oath, we were told to mind our own business. What 2 people do is their own business.

When people stump for queer marriage, they tell us what 2 people do in the privacy of their own home (or more often public bathroom) is their own business.

Then why do queers feel the need to come out and tell the world about their sexuality? The hypocrisy is stunning, even for liberals and that's saying something.

Pardon the terrible irony but....

 

[Steve Tasker]

As for Jason Collins, where is the courage in coming out as a "current" player when the season and his career is now over? I'm sure he'll get a multi-million dollar book deal and be able to play the Chris Kluwe/Ayanbadejo gay victim card to try and bully some team into signing him. Not much honor in lying to your girlfriend for 8 years hiding that you're gay. Or is he bi? So much for the born gay argument. It's really a sad, sad day for America. More rotting of the culture at its finest. I could really care less that Jason Collins is a ***. I'm just sick of these types of stories. At some point, sports needs to return to being sports and not a political arena. Very tiresome. When Bill Clinton was committing adultery in the White House and lying under oath, we were told to mind our own business. What 2 people do is their own business. When people stump for queer marriage, they tell us what 2 people do in the privacy of their own home (or more often public bathroom) is their own business. Then why do queers feel the need to come out and tell the world about their sexuality? The hypocrisy is stunning, even for liberals and that's saying something.

I sincerely hope that you find the courage to come to terms with your sexuality someday. Most of us won't judge you when you do come out or whatever you've gotta do. Good luck.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I don't care what the law is.

But don't start making churches that believe homosexuality is a sin perform gay marriages either. And don't make it a hate crime to preach that an action is a sin. (because you might not realize it, but there are people who want both of those things to happen)

I've yet to encounter anyone that thinks churches should be forced into performing gay marriages against their will. That's ridiculous.

I've yet to encounter anyone that thinks churches should be forced into performing gay marriages against their will. That's ridiculous.

You're full of crap. This is OBVIOUSLY coming in the future. It's just not here yet. In Canada, it's hate speech to even speak out against gays. It won't be long until that's in the US and gays and libs try to force churches them marry them claiming it's discrimination.

Morons like madsweeney will be mocking Christians saying they are paranoid about persecution then 5 years down the road when it's here, he'll say well that's because we're right and you're a bigot. Most of us see it coming a mile away.

Bullcrap.

Catholic churches don't marry non-Catholics, and nobody forces them to change.

Nobody (secular that is) will force churches to marry anyone they dont want to marry. That's not an issue.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

I haven't read any of this thread so apologies if I'm going over ground that's already been trodden, but dating a woman for 8 years, getting engaged, and then breaking it off a month after the nuptials is a really ####ty thing to do. This isn't the 1950's, if you're not married by 30 nobody's going to assume you're gay.

 

[Hang 10]

I haven't read any of this thread so apologies if I'm going over ground that's already been trodden, but dating a woman for 8 years, getting engaged, and then breaking it off a month after the nuptials is a really ####ty thing to do. This isn't the 1950's, if you're not married by 30 nobody's going to assume you're gay.

He was born that way and is a hero. How dare you question that!

 

[Steve Tasker]

I haven't read any of this thread so apologies if I'm going over ground that's already been trodden, but dating a woman for 8 years, getting engaged, and then breaking it off a month after the nuptials is a really ####ty thing to do. This isn't the 1950's, if you're not married by 30 nobody's going to assume you're gay.

Don't worry, no one's actually discussing Jason Collins in here.

 

[Please See Mine]

I haven't read any of this thread so apologies if I'm going over ground that's already been trodden, but dating a woman for 8 years, getting engaged, and then breaking it off a month after the nuptials is a really ####ty thing to do. This isn't the 1950's, if you're not married by 30 nobody's going to assume you're gay.

what's the big deal? /richard jefferson

 

[TobiasFunke]

I haven't read any of this thread so apologies if I'm going over ground that's already been trodden, but dating a woman for 8 years, getting engaged, and then breaking it off a month after the nuptials is a really ####ty thing to do. This isn't the 1950's, if you're not married by 30 nobody's going to assume you're gay.

I dated a woman for two years, got engaged, and broke it off two months before the wedding day. Getting engaged to her was a ####ty thing to do. But marrying her would have been a WAY ####tier thing to do. We were a bad match and it would have been a bad marriage. I wish it didn't go down that way, but everyone makes mistakes when it comes to these things. If they didn't we wouldn't have any broken engagements or divorces, but we have a ton of them.

Also, "nuptials" doesn't mean what you think it means.