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Texans and the #1 Pick (1 Viewer)

Who is the better player at their position?

  • David Carr

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Domanick Davis

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    0

Joe Bryant

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Reggie Bush to Houston isn't the no brainer today that it was yesterday.Assuming both Bush and Young declare, the Texans have to look at where they are at those two positions.Is Domanick Davis a better NFL running back than David Carr is an NFL quarterback?J

 
Bush is still a much better RB prospect than Young is a QB prospect. You take Bush or trade the pick.BTW, I null voted because I don't think who is better between DD or Carr is the deciding factor here. Not only that but I don't think either of them is all that great.

 
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Joe,I think with Vince's game last night, a big factor will be the 8 million hit they take if they keep Carr.I think its best if they take Vince @ 1 and save the money to spend on a tackle.

 
I think you have to factor in $$$, and as crazy as the bush hype got, i think young sells more merch, tickets, and creates more buzz that bush. unthinkable a few weeks ago. This win will go down as one of the greatest moments in texas sports history, and VYs performance one of the greatest performances. i think the fan base would be ecstatic, as a good amount of them are huge UT fans already and at least huge Big XII fans, so they've been watching Vince his whole career.

 
I think you have to factor in $$$, and as crazy as the bush hype got, i think young sells more merch, tickets, and creates more buzz that bush. unthinkable a few weeks ago. This win will go down as one of the greatest moments in texas sports history, and VYs performance one of the greatest performances. i think the fan base would be ecstatic, as a good amount of them are huge UT fans already and at least huge Big XII fans, so they've been watching Vince his whole career.
That and Young is from Houston.
 
The problem I see if the Texans decide to go with Young is that they will undoubtedly have to wait a few years for Young to develop, while Bush can perhaps pay immediate dividends.After making an earlier commitment to Carr (who the team undoubtedly viewed as the savior at the time), there's obviously no guarantee that Young will be any better than Carr.If I were them, I'd draft Bush, keep Davis around another year as a terrific backup/change of pace, and bring in a proven veteran starting QB to challenge Carr. EDIT to add: and concentrate on improving the OL, which will make life hard for either Bush and Young.

 
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domDavis has gotten more out his talent and statswise he is a better players, but if you lined up the NFL running backs and went DomDavis or your guy he is probably not in the top 20 maybe even 25. Carr has a poor career winning percentage, and below average passer rating, but the state of NFL Qbs is pretty sorry, so if you went Carr or your guy he probably is in the Top 20. For a multitude of reasons Carr has not performed anywhere close to his talent.

 
I can't believe I'm the only one who voted for Carr. Think outside of the fantasy football box, people!

 
The problem I see if the Texans decide to go with Young is that they will undoubtedly have to wait a few years for Young to develop, while Bush can perhaps pay immediate dividends.

After making an earlier commitment to Carr (who the team undoubtedly viewed as the savior at the time), there's obviously no guarantee that Young will be any better than Carr.

If I were them, I'd draft Bush, keep Davis around another year as a terrific backup/change of pace, and bring in a proven veteran starting QB to challenge Carr.

EDIT to add: and concentrate on improving the OL, which will make life hard for either Bush and Young.
There is a two year-five mill option for Carr. Pick it up, let Vince learn while David continues his push for the all-time sacked record.
 
Reggie Bush to Houston isn't the no brainer today that it was yesterday.

Assuming both Bush and Young declare, the Texans have to look at where they are at those two positions.

Is Domanick Davis a better NFL running back than David Carr is an NFL quarterback?

J
Yup. I've made this point several times already. In my opinion, the Texans would be much greater off addressing the QB position than the RB position -- assuming they weren't interested in addressing their numerous other areas of need. No doubt in my mind Davis is a better player at his position than Carr is at his. The only knock on Davis is durability (and that's a big one) which means you have a good backup situation in place -- which the Texans appear to have with Wells and Morency. Otherwise, when you consider what Davis has done on that team with basically no help around him and no reason for defenses to respect the passing game is pretty damn impressive.

In my opinion.

 
I think that D. Davis has shown that he can perform competitively with respect to his peers; given that he has even a small crease to squeeze through.D. Carr has been sacked on the order of 200 times in his 4 years! This is an incredible number of times. Asking any QB to stay healthy under that assault is ridiculous.Taking Leinhart helps nothing.Taking Young helps a bit but does not change the fact that the O-Line is horrible.Taking Bush ignores that D. Davis is among the leagues top 10 RB's.The Texans need to trade down and address the "real" holes on the team. O-Line and Defense.

 
While it makes sense to evaluate Carr and Davis in the decision making process, I'm not one to put an emphasis on what you have, rather I put a greater amount of importance on the talent that is available in the draft. I'm a big advocate of taking the best player available, but there are some cases where it doesn't make sense. In those cases, it's in your best interest to trade up/down to achieve your goals and get more players at those other draft slots that fill more/less holes and allow you to get the BPA at those spots as it makes sense for your team.It's not a whole lot different than VBD..

 
It shouldn't be a question of who is better. They are both good.Its the O line thats the problem and that's the problem that should be addressed.The last thing they need is another part time back. And Carr is a good QB when he has the time.Trade the pick.

 
This question is basically unanswerable until the Texans have a pro-caliber offensive line.
:goodposting: You just can't win consistently in the NFL without a good line. The Texans have a bottom 3 line. You can have Manning and LT there and they still arent going to win the Superbowl unless they have a line. The Texans have to trade down and draft O-Line.

That said, Reggie Bush on what everyone is considering an off night had what, 18 touches for like 180 yrds and TD against a top defense. He is the best RB prospect to come along in some time, it would be hard to pass him up despite how good Young (and to some extents Leinart) looked.

 
Everyone is so down on Domanick Davis, but with a horrible line he is still getting 4.2 YPC and was the 18th back in the rushing leaders while missing 5 games. If you project his stats for a 16 game season he would have been a top 10 back this year in yards.Who knows how good/bad Carr is because he's on the ground on every pass play. That team has been sacked more than France in the past 4 years.Trade down, gather some additional picks and get Ferguson or another anchor for the O line.

 
Everyone is so down on Domanick Davis, but with a horrible line
I need this response in my permanent copy and paste file:Houston's O-line is horrible when it comes to pass blocking, not run blocking. They're actually an above-average run-blocking line, which is the reason for Davis, Morency, and Wells's successes.

 
Everyone is so down on Domanick Davis, but with a horrible line
I need this response in my permanent copy and paste file:Houston's O-line is horrible when it comes to pass blocking, not run blocking. They're actually an above-average run-blocking line, which is the reason for Davis, Morency, and Wells's successes.
I've given up on telling people this.
 
I think RB is the most overrated in pro football. There are 3-4 huge difference makers in the NFL, everyone else is the same. Look at Houston's running game. Davis; Morency and Wells all had good games. QB is the most important position.

 
Everyone is so down on Domanick Davis, but with a horrible line
I need this response in my permanent copy and paste file:Houston's O-line is horrible when it comes to pass blocking, not run blocking. They're actually an above-average run-blocking line, which is the reason for Davis, Morency, and Wells's successes.
Obviously, you are asking people to do more than either/or thinking.
 
This question is basically unanswerable until the Texans have a pro-caliber offensive line.
:goodposting: You just can't win consistently in the NFL without a good line. The Texans have a bottom 3 line. You can have Manning and LT there and they still arent going to win the Superbowl unless they have a line. The Texans have to trade down and draft O-Line.
Why can't they trade the #1 pick for let's say #4 and a O-Lineman, then draft D. Furgeson? Unless they feel the Carr era is over, why wouldn't this make sense?
 
Everyone is so down on Domanick Davis, but with a horrible line
I need this response in my permanent copy and paste file:Houston's O-line is horrible when it comes to pass blocking, not run blocking. They're actually an above-average run-blocking line, which is the reason for Davis, Morency, and Wells's successes.
I've given up on telling people this.
Same for the Jets not having given up a 1st for Doug Jolley, but rather trading down. :hijacked: over

 
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Rob Johnson got sacked an awful lot too..

Maybe he was really a good quarterback and just always played behind a bad line...

 
A QB that can move and withstand hits like Young (a nice cross between Culpepper and Vick) would drastically change the O-line situation in Houston. He forces D-lineman to stay in their gaps and protect holes against his mobility, which gives him more time to throw the ball if he chooses. After last night, I say Texans should draft Vince. He's special.

 
Definitely some excellent responses so far.The issue cannot be boiled down as to who is better to keep (Carr/DomDavis), and then take the opposite position in the #1 slot.The offensive line is terrible (pass) blocking, and I've seen a few Houston games start to finish. It really does feel like the lineman get replaced on pass / run downs. I saw one play this year (cannot remember opponent - maybe Tennessee) where the offensive line did not even move before there were three D lineman already in the gaps streaking towards Carr. Even with a 3-step drop, that's unstoppable.Back to the #1 Pick issue.I think they should trade down and get OL help.But in the interest of debate:Reasons to draft Bush:- A threat every time he has the ball (running, receiving, kick returns)- Huge upside potential- Consensus "best player available" - before last night perhapsReasons not to draft Bush:- Dom Davis, J Wells, V Morency - pretty good lineup - RBs last on average no more than 4 years- Pricetag will force them to get him in there, into a crowded backfieldReasons to draft Young:- Local hero - will definitely put people in the seats- Now arguably the best player available- QBs last 10+ years (if they are franchise QBs)- should they move Carr (cut or trade) - could save appreciable $$Reasons not to draft Young:- Already have Carr - ready to give up on him already?- No QB can be effective without pass blockers - OL needs- Pricetag will also force him in there early - hopefully a new coach would hesitate - and if he was, he'd get killed by that bad O-line even with his scrambling abilities- Still questions on whether he can make every NFL throw (arm strength not tested)Of the two - it is a tough call - but if forced to select and not trade the pick or members of the current Texans roster, I'd take Bush.

 
- Still questions on whether he can make every NFL throw (arm strength not tested)
I dont think arm strength is a question for Vince. He can "flick" the ball 40 yards downfield on the run. The big questions are A) Mechanics - his sidearm style negates a big part of his height advantage and NFL DLineman are a lot better at getting in passing lanes and batting down balls than college guys, and B) Having Vince run a pro style offense, which he hasn't really done at UT. Vince does a lot of damage on checkdowns, short to intermediate routes, and 50/50 type balls downfield. He doesnt make many timing throws and his repertoire will have to expand to run a complete passing offense.
 
The notion that a first round OT should be drafted is getting cloudier as the days pass IMHO. Initially, my thoughts as to what the Texans should do is consider going the OL route, trading their pick down for late round considerations and selecting the best OT with their first pick, and assume Max Jean-Giles will be around at #33 or reach a bit for an equally talented Davin Joseph. Two solid and young talents on the line upgrades the offense in whatever aspect you can talk about.

However, as the bowl games have come to an end, I've been left with an unimpressed feeling about the so called 'first tier OT's'- a group which includes supposedly the first two OT's off the board including D'Brickshaw and Eric Winston. I didn't get a chance to see McNeill out of Auburn or Justice last night as well but both could be in consideration for first round selections. However, the 'second tier' of OT's- a group including Colledge of Boise State, Whitworth of LSU, O'Callagahan and Trueblood from BC have impressed me to the point where I consider them value picks, and possibly equally as productive as the 1st rounders, at their projected draft slot.

What I'm trying to get at here is that D'Brick at say #10 (assuming the texans trade down) has tons of question marks and ultimately may not be worth the pick as much as a mid round OT talent that has fallen due to the depth at the position this year. The Texans may be better off selecting their offensive stud with their first pick and waiting for the middle rounds to get their OT. Max Jean Giles is a must take if he slips to #33. Otherwise, Davin Joseph should get the nod with the second pick or they could try getting their OT at this juncture and see if Joseph (a projected 2nd rounder who may fall at the combine due to his lack of speed) gets to their pick at round 3 (i think its #67)

 
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The Texans may be better off selecting their offensive stud with their first pick and waiting for the middle rounds to get their OT. Max Jean Giles is a must take if he slips to #33. Otherwise, Davin Joseph should get the nod with the second pick or they could try getting their OT at this juncture and see if Joseph (a projected 2nd rounder who may fall at the combine due to his lack of speed) gets to their pick at round 3 (i think its #67)
also a guy like tatui from USC or setterstrom from Minnesota would make sense in the later first day rounds.
 
Joe,

I think with Vince's game last night, a big factor will be the 8 million hit they take if they keep Carr.

I think its best if they take Vince @ 1 and save the money to spend on a tackle.
Pretty smart call........even for a Cowboy fan. :P There is no telling how Carr's body will be in 3 or 4 years after the abuse he's had to take behind the crappy PASS DEF. Our RBs don't seem to be the problem down here......Dom plays really well. When he's banged up, Jonathan Wells steps right in and does well. And then there's Verand Morency sitting in the wings as well.

Draft Young if he declares, save the $$$ from Carr and go get more OL help.

 
I cannot agree with your position Toxic_Gatorade.Why would you roll the dice on Young? Your going to pay him the same money that you would Carr [probably more], and you will have to wait 2 to 3 years before he becomes a proficient QB [assuming that he can make the transition].You know what you have with regards to character and capability in Carr. You need to give him some protection. I say trade down or trade to acquire someone like W. Jones and fill 2- 3 O-Line spots.And don't forget that the Texans need Defensive help too ...

 
Well they have 4 picks within 66 picks of the draft.#1, #33, #63 & #66 I believe. They will not pass on an OLman this year. If they do, shame on them. They are still paying for drafting Travis Johnson with the 1st round pick last year. But with those later round picks, grabbing 2 OLmen is the smart thing to do to help shore up the pass DEF.And IF, IF, IF Vince declares.......he brings something to the table that Carr does not. Mobility. He is a threat with his legs as well. I'm not saying the Young is smarter than Carr in terms of reading NFL defensive schemes but he seems to bring more to the table.

 
domDavis has gotten more out his talent and statswise he is a better players, but if you lined up the NFL running backs and went DomDavis or your guy he is probably not in the top 20 maybe even 25.

Carr has a poor career winning percentage, and below average passer rating, but the state of NFL Qbs is pretty sorry, so if you went Carr or your guy he probably is in the Top 20. For a multitude of reasons Carr has not performed anywhere close to his talent.
Really? The state of NFL QBing is sorry? I think the opposite - I think we're entering an era of great QBing:Brady, Manning, Palmer, Roethlisberger, Leftwich, McNair, Plummer, Green, Collins, Brees, Bledsoe, EManning, McNabb, Favre, Culpepper, Vick, Delhomme, Warner, Bulger, and Hasslebeck are all clearly better than Carr. That's 20. Arguable, guys like Pennington, Brunell, and Griese are also better, while the jury is still out on Alex Smith, JP Losman, Frye, and Grossman/Orton. Put simply, if David Carr got cut tomorrow, there's not a single place in the NFL he could walk into and be the undisputed starter.

 
Carr is not an a snail.. he can run and does produce solid stats from a fantasy perspective running the ball.. it's just the rest of his game that is lacking. :)

 
Is it Carr's fault or Davis' fault that the coaching was poor, the play calling was poor, and the OL talent base was poor?

 
Trading down could likely get them something like D'Brickashaw Ferguson and Chad Greenway, or A.J. Hawk and Ryan Callahan. Either way they could have instant help on the offensive and defensive sides of the ball which would give Carr and Davis more chances and under more favorable circumstances. Alternatively they could draft Young or Bush and leave both exposed with little help while splitting the team as some vets would undoubtably be in the Carr and Davis camps.

 
domDavis has gotten more out his talent and statswise he is a better players, but if you lined up the NFL running backs and went DomDavis or your guy he is probably not in the top 20 maybe even 25.

Carr has a poor career winning  percentage, and below average passer rating, but the state of NFL Qbs is pretty sorry, so if you went Carr or your guy he probably is in the Top 20.  For a multitude of reasons  Carr has not performed anywhere close to his talent.
Really? The state of NFL QBing is sorry? I think the opposite - I think we're entering an era of great QBing:Brady, Manning, Palmer, Roethlisberger, Leftwich, McNair, Plummer, Green, Collins, Brees, Bledsoe, EManning, McNabb, Favre, Culpepper, Vick, Delhomme, Warner, Bulger, and Hasslebeck are all clearly better than Carr. That's 20. Arguable, guys like Pennington, Brunell, and Griese are also better, while the jury is still out on Alex Smith, JP Losman, Frye, and Grossman/Orton. Put simply, if David Carr got cut tomorrow, there's not a single place in the NFL he could walk into and be the undisputed starter.
You must have watched a different pro football league than I did. some of the guys you list are in better situations, but are not better QBs than Carr. A couple of those guys have names like Favre, but are not any better than Carr right now. Remember Vick and Delhomme made the pro bowl with Brunnell and Bledsoe having good arguments that they were overlooked. I am not a huge Carr fan, but Houston has done such a poor job of coaching, protecting Carr, and fitting an offense working to his strengths that 60 starts into his career, that pretty much everyone is guessing at how good or bad the guy is. I think he is the range of Collins, Bledsoe, inconsistent QB.

 
Anyone else find the majority of this thread absolutely painful to read?Lots of Madden '06 players posting in here from the looks of it.

 
Anyone know offhand the difference in stats between when DD is playing and when Wells/Morency fill in.I don't think there is much drop in production at the RB position when DD is out. He is the product of a good situation, any RB in that offense will produce. When your down 20 points and still run and dump off it is going to make the RB look good. It's not hard to run and catch screens against a prevent.

 
Reggie Bush to Houston isn't the no brainer today that it was yesterday.
I stopped reading right here....It was FAR from a "no brainer" from the start. Only the Bush-is-God hype machines bought into that silliness.

I guess a lot are going to switch to the "Young is God" bit now :rolleyes:

HOU is incredibly stupid if they do anything other than trade down.

 
Reggie Bush to Houston isn't the no brainer today that it was yesterday.
I stopped reading right here....It was FAR from a "no brainer" from the start. Only the Bush-is-God hype machines bought into that silliness.

I guess a lot are going to switch to the "Young is God" bit now :rolleyes:

HOU is incredibly stupid if they do anything other than trade down.
totally agree good post
 
Reggie Bush to Houston isn't the no brainer today that it was yesterday.
I stopped reading right here....It was FAR from a "no brainer" from the start. Only the Bush-is-God hype machines bought into that silliness.

I guess a lot are going to switch to the "Young is God" bit now :rolleyes:

HOU is incredibly stupid if they do anything other than trade down.
XIt's still a no brainer. Hou takes Bush, unless they're blown away. Same as two months ago, two weeks ago, two days ago, and two hours ago. Vince's performance last night doesn't change anything.

 
Reggie Bush to Houston isn't the no brainer today that it was yesterday.

Assuming both Bush and Young declare, the Texans have to look at where they are at those two positions.

Is Domanick Davis a better NFL running back than David Carr is an NFL quarterback?

J
Do you think you're just a wee bit caught up in the hype Joe?
 
I'm no David Carr evangelist but we can't discount how many times this kid has been sacked in evaluating his long-term potential. Would I bet on Carr being a Pro-Bowl level QB on the Texans or another team at this point? :no: Would it surprise me if in fact that does happen in the next few years? Absolutely not.

 
I'm no David Carr evangelist but we can't discount how many times this kid has been sacked in evaluating his long-term potential. Would I bet on Carr being a Pro-Bowl level QB on the Texans or another team at this point? :no: Would it surprise me if in fact that does happen in the next few years? Absolutely not.
It would surprise me. It could happen, of course. But I would be surprised. Carr still hasn't learned a few of the fundamental lessons of being a winning QB - poise, touch, stepping UP in the pocket.I don't care if he's behind the KC line, if he keeps stepping left or right when pressured instead of stepping up in the pocket and letting the tackles push the outside rush upfield, he'll continue to get sacked.

Colin

 

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