Texans "may be leaning" towards drafting Young (1 Viewer)

[Spike]

I think you all play too many video games in dynasty mode.

Trades are not that easy to pull of in the NFL.

I actually think this is a misconception. I can't remember who I discussed this with and still had a difference of opinion on this, but the end result was that 1 of the top 10 picks was traded on average almost 2 times every year.For example 2005 - #7 Williamson, 2004 #1 Manning, #4 Rivers, #6 Winslow and #7 Williams, 2003 - #4 Robertson and #6 Sullivan, 2002 #6 Sims and #8 Williams, 2001 - #1 Vick, #5 Tomlinson, #7 Carter, #9 Robinson and #10 Reynolds. I stopped at 2000, because although a few of the top 10 picks were traded, I didn't know if they were picks traded in previous years.

To me this is a significant number of guys picked in the top 10, including the #1 twice, in the last 5 years that have been traded.

I think he was talking more "player for player" trades.

 

[LongDuckDong]

So in essence you think it's smart for the Texans to Trade QB David Carr AND RB Reggie Bush for QB Vince Young? That's basically what it would boil down to, and there's no way the Texans' are THAT dumb.

RW

If they handle it correctly they would get something for Carr. Depending on what that is, maybe the equation could equal out, especially given that they have Davis at RB already.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

I think you all play too many video games in dynasty mode.

Trades are not that easy to pull of in the NFL.

I actually think this is a misconception. I can't remember who I discussed this with and still had a difference of opinion on this, but the end result was that 1 of the top 10 picks was traded on average almost 2 times every year.For example 2005 - #7 Williamson, 2004 #1 Manning, #4 Rivers, #6 Winslow and #7 Williams, 2003 - #4 Robertson and #6 Sullivan, 2002 #6 Sims and #8 Williams, 2001 - #1 Vick, #5 Tomlinson, #7 Carter, #9 Robinson and #10 Reynolds. I stopped at 2000, because although a few of the top 10 picks were traded, I didn't know if they were picks traded in previous years.

To me this is a significant number of guys picked in the top 10, including the #1 twice, in the last 5 years that have been traded.

I think he was talking more "player for player" trades.

 

[thesurfshop19]

As I mentioned...straight from John McClain...Houston may take him for yet another reason...and people will downplay this...but McNair (not Steve...) would not want to pass on Young and let Bud Adams nab him...only to see Young twice a year whipping the Texans.

If they don't take Bush and he ends up in Tennessee (beating the Texans twice a year), isn't that similar? Granted, it's not the local boy doing it, but it's still no good.

 

[R.White]

So in essence you think it's smart for the Texans to Trade QB David Carr AND RB Reggie Bush for QB Vince Young? That's basically what it would boil down to, and there's no way the Texans' are THAT dumb.

RW

If they handle it correctly they would get something for Carr. Depending on what that is, maybe the equation could equal out, especially given that they have Davis at RB already.

They won't get anything remotely close to what they paid for Carr in return (although the market is better for QB's than it is for RB's), and RB D.Davis has proven he can't stay healthy. I think the Texans are concerned with Davis' knee, as it has become a chronic problem. Kubiak is a QB guru, and will get the most out of Carr. Look what he did with Plummer. With that said, the Texans will go with the safer pick, AND address a need. Again, it just doesn't make sense to trade Carr AND Bush for VY. In this sceario they are better served to trade Davis, where they are more apt to get a better return on their initial investment. (Round:4 Pick:4)RW

 

[JohnnyU]

I think you all play too many video games in dynasty mode.

Trades are not that easy to pull of in the NFL.

very

 

[R.White]

As I mentioned...straight from John McClain...Houston may take him for yet another reason...and people will downplay this...but McNair (not Steve...) would not want to pass on Young and let Bud Adams nab him...only to see Young twice a year whipping the Texans.

If they don't take Bush and he ends up in Tennessee (beating the Texans twice a year), isn't that similar? Granted, it's not the local boy doing it, but it's still no good.

Excellent point And as for Young, there is still no guarantee he gets past New Orleans?

 

[sho nuff]

As I mentioned...straight from John McClain...Houston may take him for yet another reason...and people will downplay this...but McNair (not Steve...) would not want to pass on Young and let Bud Adams nab him...only to see Young twice a year whipping the Texans.

If they don't take Bush and he ends up in Tennessee (beating the Texans twice a year), isn't that similar? Granted, it's not the local boy doing it, but it's still no good.

Yeah...a bit different I guess with the local boy.He was comparing it to if the Oilers would have passed on Earl Campbell and had him come back twice a year to beat the Oilers.

 

[mac daddy]

Article in the Houston Chronicle this morning discusses how the Texans asked every single candidate to evaluate Carr, Bush, and Young, and every single one said Carr wasn't the problem and that they should draft Bush.

link

It will be fun to here the conspiracy theories, though, because they will hire Kubiak, an Aggie, and then not take the t-sip.

 

[Buckna]

As I mentioned...straight from John McClain...Houston may take him for yet another reason...and people will downplay this...but McNair (not Steve...) would not want to pass on Young and let Bud Adams nab him...only to see Young twice a year whipping the Texans.

If they don't take Bush and he ends up in Tennessee (beating the Texans twice a year), isn't that similar? Granted, it's not the local boy doing it, but it's still no good.

That's why I think this is useless argument. The Titans will end up with one of the top three guys no matter who you pick. You can't make your selection based on fear of who the Titans will get. You make your selection based on who you think will make your team better. You have no control over what the Titans ultimately end up doing.

 

[Texasmouth]

As I mentioned...straight from John McClain...Houston may take him for yet another reason...and people will downplay this...but McNair (not Steve...) would not want to pass on Young and let Bud Adams nab him...only to see Young twice a year whipping the Texans.

Actually a good point. I think drafting Young just makes so much sense for the Texans that I think they are hoping something works out so they can get out of drafting Reggie Bush. I know everyone loves him and he is the greatest thing since sliced bread and so on and so forth but the one thing the Texans DONT need is a RB. Dom Davis is a top ten back and Vorend Morency (SP) is a nice backup/change of pace guy. They are set at running back. Why would you draft another RB when you have a ton of holes all ready? Vince Young would bring so much excitment to Houston that it would be unbearable. With Kubiak at the helm this team could make a little noise. Anything they do will be better than last year.I think in the right system David Carr could be a great QB and maybe that system is in Oakland with Saunders. That would be a nice fit.

 

[Texasmouth]

Article in the Houston Chronicle this morning discusses how the Texans asked every single candidate to evaluate Carr, Bush, and Young, and every single one said Carr wasn't the problem and that they should draft Bush.

link

It will be fun to here the conspiracy theories, though, because they will hire Kubiak, an Aggie, and then not take the t-sip.

Kubiak is an Aggie? I really didn't know that.......

 

[Texasmouth]

OK, I have it all solved. Trade Carr to New Orleans for their first round pick, then draft Vince Young and Reggie Bush and all will be well in the universe.......

 

[Colin Dowling]

Yeah, just like it was a good thing for Portland they already had a shooting guard in Clyde Drexler so they could take that 7 footer in Sam Bowie. That Jordan guy would have just complicated things

Always with the Bowie vs. Jordan thing, huh?

Sometimes picking the 7 footer works. Gee, do you think that Houston made a bad choice taking Yao over Jay Williams? San Antonio probably should have passed on Duncan and taken Keith Van Horn. In 1992, I think Orlando and Charlotte really should have passed on Shaq and Mourning and taking Jimmy Jackson the highest drafted non 7 footer. San Antonio did make its first mistake taking David Robinson over Dennis Hopson. Waymon Tisdale would have been a much better franchise pick than Patrick Ewing.

OK, I am done looking at the NBA Draft History, but the Jordan analogy gets old because as many mistake 7 footer picks as there are, there are just as many HOF 7 footers taken at the top of the draft.

I was going to post something similar to defend myself, but you semed to make the point already.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

OK, I have it all solved. Trade Carr to New Orleans for their first round pick, then draft Vince Young and Reggie Bush and all will be well in the universe.......

Your scenario would make sense if it included me being drafted third.

 

[Colin Dowling]

OK, I have it all solved. Trade Carr to New Orleans for their first round pick, then draft Vince Young and Reggie Bush and all will be well in the universe.......

Trade Carr to the Raiders for their 2nd round pick and a good, but not great player (Gabriel, a servicable lineman, etc.) Take Young 1st, a tackle and a lb (both of which are way deep in this draft) with the 2 second rounders. I read an article on Sporting News (IIRC) alluding to a scenario like this.

 

[Texasmouth]

OK, I have it all solved. Trade Carr to New Orleans for their first round pick, then draft Vince Young and Reggie Bush and all will be well in the universe.......

Your scenario would make sense if it included me being drafted third.

Do you play QB, I think Tenn is looking for a QB.......

 

[Texasmouth]

OK, I have it all solved. Trade Carr to New Orleans for their first round pick, then draft Vince Young and Reggie Bush and all will be well in the universe.......

Trade Carr to the Raiders for their 2nd round pick and a good, but not great player (Gabriel, a servicable lineman, etc.) Take Young 1st, a tackle and a lb (both of which are way deep in this draft) with the 2 second rounders. I read an article on Sporting News (IIRC) alluding to a scenario like this.

I think I read that same article. That makes sense too of course....my plan was probably as close to impossible as it can get.

 

[tattoofan]

OK, I have it all solved. Trade Carr to New Orleans for their first round pick, then draft Vince Young and Reggie Bush and all will be well in the universe.......

Welcome to Houston sports radio. That is almost word for word what callers are saying. In fact, a caller got through with Cass and propsed the same thing. Amazing.

 

[jbz]

Yeah, just like it was a good thing for Portland they already had a shooting guard in Clyde Drexler so they could take that 7 footer in Sam Bowie. That Jordan guy would have just complicated things

Always with the Bowie vs. Jordan thing, huh?

Sometimes picking the 7 footer works. Gee, do you think that Houston made a bad choice taking Yao over Jay Williams? San Antonio probably should have passed on Duncan and taken Keith Van Horn. In 1992, I think Orlando and Charlotte really should have passed on Shaq and Mourning and taking Jimmy Jackson the highest drafted non 7 footer. San Antonio did make its first mistake taking David Robinson over Dennis Hopson. Waymon Tisdale would have been a much better franchise pick than Patrick Ewing.

OK, I am done looking at the NBA Draft History, but the Jordan analogy gets old because as many mistake 7 footer picks as there are, there are just as many HOF 7 footers taken at the top of the draft.

Don't want to hijack this thread with NBA draft talk, but I used that example because it's the most glaring example of why just drafting someone for need, in this case, the 7 footer over the BPA, in this case, Michael Jordan, doesn't always pan out. Sure sometimes picking the 7 footer works, but for every example of when it does, there's one for one it doesn't. You give example sof some of the best 7 footers in history when it was a no brainer pick. You fail to mention the teams that are crying because they drafted "studs" like Shawn Bradley, Yinka Dare, Kwame Brown, Jon Koncak, Adonal Foye, Todd Fuller, etc in the lottery. Your logic is flawed. If the 7 ft player is also the BPA, then it is a no-brainer. David Robinson, Shaw, Zo, Duncan, etc where the easiest draft picks to make. Very different situation here don't you think?

 

[jbz]

Regardless of Carr, the stars could not be better aligned with regard to the Texans and Young.

Local kid leaves town and wins the national title for the state's proud program. Local kid returns home and openly says, "I love my city, I'd love to play in Houston." Local team has done nothing right in 4 years. Local team needs a shot of energy to tell their fans they are serious about winning. Local team can steal every Texas bandwagon Dallas Cowboy fan with a single draft pick, increase ticket sales, and have a top-5 selling jersey on NFL.com by May 1.....

The "David Carr Problem" can easily be solved considering all the beneftis of drafting Young.

So in essence you think it's smart for the Texans to Trade QB David Carr AND RB Reggie Bush for QB Vince Young? That's basically what it would boil down to, and there's no way the Texans' are THAT dumb.RW

Good way to think about it. But I wouldn't say the Texans aren't that dumb just yet

 

[Andy Dufresne]

SI.com just had this to say:

It will be a terrific NFL Draft unless there's some truth to what we read on ProFootballTalk.com's rumor mill about Texas quarterback Vince Young possibly having second thoughts. Young evidently hasn't hired an agent yet and, according to the report, NFL insiders "expect" Texas coach Mack Brown to try to convince Young to change his mind.-- Arizona Republic

What would be the benefit of returning to school?

 

[dgreen]

SI.com just had this to say:

It will be a terrific NFL Draft unless there's some truth to what we read on ProFootballTalk.com's rumor mill about Texas quarterback Vince Young possibly having second thoughts. Young evidently hasn't hired an agent yet and, according to the report, NFL insiders "expect" Texas coach Mack Brown to try to convince Young to change his mind.

-- Arizona Republic

What would be the benefit of returning to school?

Statistics show that college grads make more money than college dropouts.

 

[Andy Dufresne]

SI.com just had this to say:

It will be a terrific NFL Draft unless there's some truth to what we read on ProFootballTalk.com's rumor mill about Texas quarterback Vince Young possibly having second thoughts. Young evidently hasn't hired an agent yet and, according to the report, NFL insiders "expect" Texas coach Mack Brown to try to convince Young to change his mind.

-- Arizona Republic

What would be the benefit of returning to school?

Statistics show that college grads make more money than college dropouts.

 

[Iron_Far]

SI.com just had this to say:

It will be a terrific NFL Draft unless there's some truth to what we read on ProFootballTalk.com's rumor mill about Texas quarterback Vince Young possibly having second thoughts. Young evidently hasn't hired an agent yet and, according to the report, NFL insiders "expect" Texas coach Mack Brown to try to convince Young to change his mind.

-- Arizona Republic

What would be the benefit of returning to school?

Statistics show that college grads make more money than college dropouts.

I can attest to this.

 

[Limecuda]

What I find curious is those against the Young to Houston deal usually claim the Texans do not need a qb. When in the same breath they claim Bush is the man. Well, an argument could be made that the Texans do not need a rb either. They are in a damned if you do damned if you don't predicament. The Rose Bowl did nothing but cloud up the first 3 picks and make the 1st pick less valuable. Houston was in a prime position to stockpile picks by a trade. Now with the hometown boy and the fan pressure Houston is in a tough spot. There were a lot of Texan fans pulling against the Bush led Trojans. A lot of casual Texans fans' only glimpse of Bush was his performance versus Texas. If that is all they seen I can understand the preference for Young versus Bush.

 

[Colin Dowling]

SI.com just had this to say:

It will be a terrific NFL Draft unless there's some truth to what we read on ProFootballTalk.com's rumor mill about Texas quarterback Vince Young possibly having second thoughts. Young evidently hasn't hired an agent yet and, according to the report, NFL insiders "expect" Texas coach Mack Brown to try to convince Young to change his mind.

-- Arizona Republic

What would be the benefit of returning to school?

Except for the fact that he declared on a SUnday with no notice precisely b/c the Austin American Statesman had determined that he had chosen an agent, this story makes a ton of sense.

 

[B Maverick]

What I find curious is those against the Young to Houston deal usually claim the Texans do not need a qb. When in the same breath they claim Bush is the man. Well, an argument could be made that the Texans do not need a rb either.

Dom Davis has become the reincarnated Fragile Freddie. Great on the field but rarely there. They need a RB more then they need a QB. Although the best arguement is for them to get an OLINE over both.Bush and Wells, the next thunder and lightning combo....

 

[Peep It Yo!]

If Houston drafts VY #1 they are dumber than a box of hammers.

VY will be brought back to Earth once he is in the NFL and has to play under center. The shotgun thing that he did in college will not be readily available in the NFL and his flaws will be greatly exposed.

 

[pelland]

Mcclain was on Houston 610 sports radio for drive home this afternoon explaining his logic. Kubiac and Denver have never drafted a rb in 1st rd. (Portis 2nd, Terrel Davis, Droughns, Anderson etc...) basically he likes RB that fits his zone blocking scheme. You don't need to be supertalented just follow the scheme and run foward. Also he believes the Texans will have Young ranked #1 overall on their draft board. He thinks Kubiacs input will be to draft Young. BTW John Mclain is in Denver covering the PAts Bronco game this weekend.

 

[nightshift]

David Carr is a decent NFL QB if he wasn't so busy getting sacked. Houston has a lot of the right people, but their lines SUCK.They need to trade down a bit, seriously draft some stud O-linemen.

 

[pelland]

David Carr is a decent NFL QB if he wasn't so busy getting sacked. Houston has a lot of the right people, but their lines SUCK.

They need to trade down a bit, seriously draft some stud O-linemen.

Also some LB's, Safety, TE and a #2WR

 

[Colin Dowling]

David Carr is a decent NFL QB if he wasn't so busy getting sacked. Houston has a lot of the right people, but their lines SUCK.

They need to trade down a bit, seriously draft some stud O-linemen.

Also some LB's, Safety, TE and a #2WR

They could have had Jason Witten, but ol Bennie Joupru was just WAY too appealing.

 

[pelland]

David Carr is a decent NFL QB if he wasn't so busy getting sacked. Houston has a lot of the right people, but their lines SUCK.

They need to trade down a bit, seriously draft some stud O-linemen.

Also some LB's, Safety, TE and a #2WR

They could have had Jason Witten, but ol Bennie Joupru was just WAY too appealing.

Let's see the choice is Bennie "I never played a down" Joupru or Witten a TE who blocks well and catches passes. Why did they keep Charlie Casserly as GM?

 

[rabidfireweasel]

Young is a guy who would have been lucky to be a 2nd round pick 2 weeks ago. Now he's the #1 pick? If that's true, then every NFL team in the league should just fire their scouting departments. What's the point when all you need to do is turn on the TV and watch the last game of the season?

You are flat out wrong and borderline absurd. If Jason Campbell, JP Losman, and Patrick Ramsey were 1st round picks- Young was a first rounder since Michigan in 05 Rosebowl, at the latest.

 

[GregR_2]

They could have had Jason Witten, but ol Bennie Joupru was just WAY too appealing.

Let's see the choice is Bennie "I never played a down" Joupru or Witten a TE who blocks well and catches passes. Why did they keep Charlie Casserly as GM?

So you're saying we should hold Casserly accountable that he wasn't able to predict that a player who had no major injury history in college would miss the next two seasons with injuries?

 

[pelland]

They could have had Jason Witten, but ol Bennie Joupru was just WAY too appealing.

Let's see the choice is Bennie "I never played a down" Joupru or Witten a TE who blocks well and catches passes. Why did they keep Charlie Casserly as GM?

So you're saying we should hold Casserly accountable that he wasn't able to predict that a player who had no major injury history in college would miss the next two seasons with injuries?

No I think his 4 year history of drafting speaks for itself!