The “I want to retire soon” thread (1 Viewer)

[-OZ-]

All this talk about inflation - I get it in theory. At least I think I do. But looking at my own expenses, far and away the largest expense is my mortgage (which I think would be pretty common). That is a fixed cost. It doesn’t go up, and won’t for the next ~25ish years (refinanced at 2.5%, so no point in paying off early). And at that point, it doesn’t go up - it actually goes away. We don’t plan on moving.

So the last ~10 years of that will likely be during retirement, but it wont feel any impact of inflation.

One of my next highest expenses is gas honestly (2 driver household). A planned future expense will likely be a EV when we need one replaced - so a hopeful monthly cost reduction. So while the cost of gas may go up, my cost for gas should go down (partially offset by electric cost, understood).

I get that food and travel and healthcare and other items will have inflationary price increases, but my single largest expense won’t. Should I still plan on 3% inflation for my expenses, or some lesser amount?

Yes, the often overlooked personal inflation numbers. Almost nobody actually just takes the CPI. But it’s really hard to tell how specific expenses will increase in the future.

gas being your #2 expense (or even close) is crazy to me. We pay far more in utilities, food, insurance, home maintenance, vacations, charity. Gas is low on the list, near restaurants and gifts. With 4 drivers we pay maybe $300 / month in gas on average.

 

[SFBayDuck]

All this talk about inflation - I get it in theory. At least I think I do. But looking at my own expenses, far and away the largest expense is my mortgage (which I think would be pretty common). That is a fixed cost. It doesn’t go up, and won’t for the next ~25ish years (refinanced at 2.5%, so no point in paying off early). And at that point, it doesn’t go up - it actually goes away. We don’t plan on moving.

So the last ~10 years of that will likely be during retirement, but it wont feel any impact of inflation.

One of my next highest expenses is gas honestly (2 driver household). A planned future expense will likely be a EV when we need one replaced - so a hopeful monthly cost reduction. So while the cost of gas may go up, my cost for gas should go down (partially offset by electric cost, understood).

I get that food and travel and healthcare and other items will have inflationary price increases, but my single largest expense won’t. Should I still plan on 3% inflation for my expenses, or some lesser amount?

As many/most retirees that have been financially responsible enough to save and think about this kind of thing either own their homes outright or have fixed-rate mortgages, we know that greatly reduces the impact of housing inflation, which makes up 1/3 of CPI. Many experts suggest CPI minus 1% as a more realistic inflation adjustment. So we've got that going for us, which is nice.

 

[-OZ-]

So, I havnt read through the 100s of threads or this thread very well.... I will though...

I plan or working part time making $60-$70K forever. Son will eventually run business and I plan on keeping salary.

To live on $10K a month (take home), how much do I need saved? assuming caution investments, like american funds.... ((I know Im know for my gambling in stocks and crypto, but assuming not that))

number 1 thing is health care. I think due to great employment/retire stuff, we can get that for under$500 a month.

Like 1.5MM?

Really depends on returns. But the “4% rule” means 25x annual expenses, or 300x monthly expenses. So if you’re following the general idea, you’d need $3 million to last 30 years in the worst case scenario in the last 100 years. (It’s more complicated but that’s the general idea).

I think you missed his part time income. Or maybe I missed that he wants 10K/mo on top of his income. Depends on his tax situation, but if it's 10k total, it's closer to 1.5M.

Good point. Although my method stands.
300x average monthly out of pocket, or 25x annual gets you in the ballpark.

 

[Gally]

With 4 drivers we pay maybe $300 / month in gas on average.

You must not live in CA or barely drive if you do. Less than $20 per person per week. That is crazy low.

 

[-OZ-]

With 4 drivers we pay maybe $300 / month in gas on average.

You must not live in CA or barely drive if you do. Less than $20 per person per week. That is crazy low.

Alabama. I telework 3x weekly, wife works 3-4 days. Most stuff we do is within 10 miles. Son #1 works 10 miles away, college is about the same distance. The other drives 9 miles to campus the other direction during the year and now works 1.7 miles from the house throughout the summer.
We do drive a lot for vacations or to visit her family.

 

[Gally]

With 4 drivers we pay maybe $300 / month in gas on average.

You must not live in CA or barely drive if you do. Less than $20 per person per week. That is crazy low.

Alabama. I telework 3x weekly, wife works 3-4 days. Most stuff we do is within 10 miles. Son #1 works 10 miles away, college is about the same distance. The other drives 9 miles to campus the other direction during the year and now works 1.7 miles from the house throughout the summer.
We do drive a lot for vacations or to visit her family.

I would say you are on the "barely drive" side of the scale. Your total miles for the month is many peoples weekly total.

 

[matttyl]

All this talk about inflation - I get it in theory. At least I think I do. But looking at my own expenses, far and away the largest expense is my mortgage (which I think would be pretty common). That is a fixed cost. It doesn’t go up, and won’t for the next ~25ish years (refinanced at 2.5%, so no point in paying off early). And at that point, it doesn’t go up - it actually goes away. We don’t plan on moving.

So the last ~10 years of that will likely be during retirement, but it wont feel any impact of inflation.

One of my next highest expenses is gas honestly (2 driver household). A planned future expense will likely be a EV when we need one replaced - so a hopeful monthly cost reduction. So while the cost of gas may go up, my cost for gas should go down (partially offset by electric cost, understood).

I get that food and travel and healthcare and other items will have inflationary price increases, but my single largest expense won’t. Should I still plan on 3% inflation for my expenses, or some lesser amount?

Yes, the often overlooked personal inflation numbers. Almost nobody actually just takes the CPI. But it’s really hard to tell how specific expenses will increase in the future.

gas being your #2 expense (or even close) is crazy to me. We pay far more in utilities, food, insurance, home maintenance, vacations, charity. Gas is low on the list, near restaurants and gifts. With 4 drivers we pay maybe $300 / month in gas on average.

It’s not #2, but it’s top 5. Likely around 3,500-4k a year. It’s more than our utility bill (we’ve got a pretty efficient house and pretty low electric rates).

And if you lump all insurance together that would be more, but it’s more than each of the homeowners, health, or life policies individually.

 

[-OZ-]

It’s not #2, but it’s top 5. Likely around 3,500-4k a year. It’s more than our utility bill (we’ve got a pretty efficient house and pretty low electric rates).

And if you lump all insurance together that would be more, but it’s more than each of the homeowners, health, or life policies individually

For utilities I’m including water, gas, electric, cell, internet. As you might imagine, 7 of us in the house means plenty of electric. (Not to mention AC in the summer)
My auto insurance is high but that’s to be expected right now and will change in retirement. Negligible health insurance is great. $84/month for LI.

 

[AAABatteries]

I love this thread. It gives me so much hope!


Mrs APK and I have been working through retirement planning for awhile now. The situation is pretty simple — we are 49 years old, with twin kids who will be juniors in high school this fall. All the math would say that we can simply be done somewhere around age 51-53, if not today.

I’m highly risk averse financially, and have strong incentives to stay in my current job another 2 years (April 2026), which lines up well with kids going to college. So nothing will happen before then.

But…..I can’t figure out what is giving me pause about calling it quits in 22 months. Loss of perceived status (wait — I’m a FBG. Isn’t that status enough?), fear of being stuck in the house with my wife 24/7, lack of clear vision for what retirement “looks like”, worries about running out of money due to a shock loss in the markets, etc etc etc.

Anyway, that’s where I’m at. This thread is amazing and really is helping me process all this stuff. Thanks to everyone in here.

My thinking is you can always go back to work if you need or want to - the only thing I would consider in your situation is how much do you enjoy your current job and how difficult would it be to get something similar. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Sand]

All this talk about inflation - I get it in theory. At least I think I do. But looking at my own expenses, far and away the largest expense is my mortgage (which I think would be pretty common). That is a fixed cost. It doesn’t go up, and won’t for the next ~25ish years (refinanced at 2.5%, so no point in paying off early). And at that point, it doesn’t go up - it actually goes away. We don’t plan on moving.

Fixed rate loans are a great inflation hedge.

I think we are saying the same thing but I don’t agree with 6% return goes to 3% real return with 3% inflation. I get that my buying power goes down but a real return means that’s what I end up with after the end of the year.

It does work out that way. The important thing to remember about inflation is that it affects both your spending number and also decreases the buying power of the whole portfolio. So your 1M portfolio is worth less in real terms year after year if just in cash. That why you need a healthy return on investment to counteract that.

As many/most retirees that have been financially responsible enough to save and think about this kind of thing either own their homes outright or have fixed-rate mortgages, we know that greatly reduces the impact of housing inflation, which makes up 1/3 of CPI. Many experts suggest CPI minus 1% as a more realistic inflation adjustment. So we've got that going for us, which is nice.

CPI vastly underestimates real inflation. Where did this CPI-1% come from? IMO, it's totally wrong. (Not being argumentative, just curious, GB).

 

[SFBayDuck]

CPI vastly underestimates real inflation. Where did this CPI-1% come from? IMO, it's totally wrong. (Not being argumentative, just curious, GB).

All good! One of my favorite things in this educational journey has been to read/listen to something that totally makes sense to me, then go looking for alternative or even opposite viewpoints!

This opens up a whole other can of worms, how to accurately measure inflation. You could also say the CPI is high since it doesn't consider substitution, for example. It's more focused on urban consumers, so could be different than rural consumers' costs. The effect of inflation is different on different people as well - did your wages increase commensurate with inflation? For retirees, SS has a COLA adjustment every year that is tied to CPI, which can mute the effect once you're claiming benefits.

Hell, the whole "owners equivalent rent" that makes up a big chunk of it is basically made up by people who are asked how much they could get for their house if they rented it. Is that high or low? And as stated before, this may not really apply to many retirees anyway.

But to answer your specific question, it came from actual data on retiree spending gathered by David Blanchett (the "Retirement Spending Smile" guy). From the Dec '22 Morningstar report on SWRs:

Perhaps the most significant caveat is that our base case spending system may not reflect the way that many retirees actually spend. A fixed real withdrawal system, whereby the retiree withdraws X% of his or her portfolio in Year 1 and then inflation-adjusts the dollar amount thereafter, provides a steady “paycheck equivalent” over the whole retirement time horizon. Yet actual retiree spending shows a different pattern. Specifically, research from David Blanchett, formerly of Morningstar and now at PGIM, demonstrated that retirees often spend the most in the early years of retirement, then gradually reduce spending over their retirement years. They might elevate spending again in the later years of retirement to fund higher healthcare outlays, especially long-term care.

The net effect of that pattern, Blanchett found, is that retirees don’t spend in line with inflation—they increase their spending roughly 1 percentage point less per year than the inflation rate, on average.

Of course Big Ern covers the home ownership angle of this in his SWR series, and his view is very different. In fact in general his view is that retirees have slightly higher inflation rates due to more of their expenditures being on healthcare, and I think that fits into the Retirement Smile pattern of spending increasing later in life. Anyway, read his post and Frank Vasquez's comment and Ern's replies for some real geeky and in-the-weeds thoughts on the topic. A main takeaway for me is that the home ownership angle may play a role in the average retiree's spending not keeping up with inflation, but it's not the "why".

In the end, personal inflation is personal. So you may be right, for you, that CPI understates inflation. And for others, they may experience much less inflation than CPI. And that may change as you move through different phases of life.

 

[Peggy]

I'm reading "Die with Zero" right now, and while I don't agree with everything he proposes in the book there are some great nuggets. One of them is spending money on experiences earlier in life, as there are certain things you can do at younger ages that you won't be able to do later, and that applies from your 20s all the way up into your 50s-60s-70s, when we go through the go-go, slow-go, and finally no-go years. He also talks about the concept of compounding memory dividends - you get much more joy over your life from things you did earlier as you can think back on them fondly, tell stories, look at pictures, etc. For me that totally rings true, as there is a reason my college buddies and I still talk about so many of the same stories 30-35 years later.

Yeah, Die with Zero is a good book and this concept of dividends on experiences really resonated with me too.

Half way through this one, and skipped forward to read Chapter 8 to get to the punch line sooner. Just what I needed to help push me off the cliff. I'm done, working until January to get all of this year's company stock gains and that's it. Not letting them talk me into staying any longer. The models in the book show a optimal retirement age between 45 and 60. I'm already 55 so I'm sticking to the plan; relocating to where I want to retire at in the final quarter this year and calling it quits.

Well that happened a lot sooner than I expected. They've been asking me to relocate at the end of the year and all of a sudden today the VP stopped by my office and asked if I had been thinking about it. I told him that I wasn't going to take the new job, that I was going to retire at the end/beginning of the year.

He knew I was 50-50 when we talked about it a few months ago. I've been letting them know that this might be my last year for a while. He was fine with it and just said to let him know as soon as possible if I start to have second thoughts. I am scheduled to the end of the year on my current project so the timing seems perfect.

I've got a bunch of mixed emotions. It's the first time I've really committed firmly to it.

I did it. I have it made! I talked to the next guy on the ladder when I had the opportunity because I knew he was going to find out from the VP. He was very supportive and happy for me. He said they'd keep me on as long I wished and would work out the end date whenever I wanted it to be at the beginning of next year. (I need to be employed January 1st to get this year's company gains). Then he said.................

Would you consider coming on as a consultant? You could work as many and as few hours as you wish. We'd fly you to the different job locations from wherever you are for a few days to do reviews.
Elated, I tired to keep my cool and said that sounds good, I'll discuss with the wife. He said bring her. If the job is in a city you'd like to visit they'd pay to bring my wife and stay the weekend. And the door is always open if you decide to ever come back full time too.

The backup plan I never saw coming. I'll still be retired, but won't need to worry about running short on money. I'll be in charge if and how many hours I decide to work.

 

[jamny]

I'm reading "Die with Zero" right now, and while I don't agree with everything he proposes in the book there are some great nuggets. One of them is spending money on experiences earlier in life, as there are certain things you can do at younger ages that you won't be able to do later, and that applies from your 20s all the way up into your 50s-60s-70s, when we go through the go-go, slow-go, and finally no-go years. He also talks about the concept of compounding memory dividends - you get much more joy over your life from things you did earlier as you can think back on them fondly, tell stories, look at pictures, etc. For me that totally rings true, as there is a reason my college buddies and I still talk about so many of the same stories 30-35 years later.

Yeah, Die with Zero is a good book and this concept of dividends on experiences really resonated with me too.

Half way through this one, and skipped forward to read Chapter 8 to get to the punch line sooner. Just what I needed to help push me off the cliff. I'm done, working until January to get all of this year's company stock gains and that's it. Not letting them talk me into staying any longer. The models in the book show a optimal retirement age between 45 and 60. I'm already 55 so I'm sticking to the plan; relocating to where I want to retire at in the final quarter this year and calling it quits.

Well that happened a lot sooner than I expected. They've been asking me to relocate at the end of the year and all of a sudden today the VP stopped by my office and asked if I had been thinking about it. I told him that I wasn't going to take the new job, that I was going to retire at the end/beginning of the year.

He knew I was 50-50 when we talked about it a few months ago. I've been letting them know that this might be my last year for a while. He was fine with it and just said to let him know as soon as possible if I start to have second thoughts. I am scheduled to the end of the year on my current project so the timing seems perfect.

I've got a bunch of mixed emotions. It's the first time I've really committed firmly to it.

I did it. I have it made! I talked to the next guy on the ladder when I had the opportunity because I knew he was going to find out from the VP. He was very supportive and happy for me. He said they'd keep me on as long I wished and would work out the end date whenever I wanted it to be at the beginning of next year. (I need to be employed January 1st to get this year's company gains). Then he said.................

Would you consider coming on as a consultant? You could work as many and as few hours as you wish. We'd fly you to the different job locations from wherever you are for a few days to do reviews.
Elated, I tired to keep my cool and said that sounds good, I'll discuss with the wife. He said bring her. If the job is in a city you'd like to visit they'd pay to bring my wife and stay the weekend. And the door is always open if you decide to ever come back full time too.

The backup plan I never saw coming. I'll still be retired, but won't need to worry about running short on money. I'll be in charge if and how many hours I decide to work.

Nice! Congrats!

 

[SFBayDuck]

I'm reading "Die with Zero" right now, and while I don't agree with everything he proposes in the book there are some great nuggets. One of them is spending money on experiences earlier in life, as there are certain things you can do at younger ages that you won't be able to do later, and that applies from your 20s all the way up into your 50s-60s-70s, when we go through the go-go, slow-go, and finally no-go years. He also talks about the concept of compounding memory dividends - you get much more joy over your life from things you did earlier as you can think back on them fondly, tell stories, look at pictures, etc. For me that totally rings true, as there is a reason my college buddies and I still talk about so many of the same stories 30-35 years later.

Yeah, Die with Zero is a good book and this concept of dividends on experiences really resonated with me too.

Half way through this one, and skipped forward to read Chapter 8 to get to the punch line sooner. Just what I needed to help push me off the cliff. I'm done, working until January to get all of this year's company stock gains and that's it. Not letting them talk me into staying any longer. The models in the book show a optimal retirement age between 45 and 60. I'm already 55 so I'm sticking to the plan; relocating to where I want to retire at in the final quarter this year and calling it quits.

Well that happened a lot sooner than I expected. They've been asking me to relocate at the end of the year and all of a sudden today the VP stopped by my office and asked if I had been thinking about it. I told him that I wasn't going to take the new job, that I was going to retire at the end/beginning of the year.

He knew I was 50-50 when we talked about it a few months ago. I've been letting them know that this might be my last year for a while. He was fine with it and just said to let him know as soon as possible if I start to have second thoughts. I am scheduled to the end of the year on my current project so the timing seems perfect.

I've got a bunch of mixed emotions. It's the first time I've really committed firmly to it.

I did it. I have it made! I talked to the next guy on the ladder when I had the opportunity because I knew he was going to find out from the VP. He was very supportive and happy for me. He said they'd keep me on as long I wished and would work out the end date whenever I wanted it to be at the beginning of next year. (I need to be employed January 1st to get this year's company gains). Then he said.................

Would you consider coming on as a consultant? You could work as many and as few hours as you wish. We'd fly you to the different job locations from wherever you are for a few days to do reviews.
Elated, I tired to keep my cool and said that sounds good, I'll discuss with the wife. He said bring her. If the job is in a city you'd like to visit they'd pay to bring my wife and stay the weekend. And the door is always open if you decide to ever come back full time too.

The backup plan I never saw coming. I'll still be retired, but won't need to worry about running short on money. I'll be in charge if and how many hours I decide to work.

Incredible, congrats!

 

[Sand]

I'm reading "Die with Zero" right now, and while I don't agree with everything he proposes in the book there are some great nuggets. One of them is spending money on experiences earlier in life, as there are certain things you can do at younger ages that you won't be able to do later, and that applies from your 20s all the way up into your 50s-60s-70s, when we go through the go-go, slow-go, and finally no-go years. He also talks about the concept of compounding memory dividends - you get much more joy over your life from things you did earlier as you can think back on them fondly, tell stories, look at pictures, etc. For me that totally rings true, as there is a reason my college buddies and I still talk about so many of the same stories 30-35 years later.

Yeah, Die with Zero is a good book and this concept of dividends on experiences really resonated with me too.

Half way through this one, and skipped forward to read Chapter 8 to get to the punch line sooner. Just what I needed to help push me off the cliff. I'm done, working until January to get all of this year's company stock gains and that's it. Not letting them talk me into staying any longer. The models in the book show a optimal retirement age between 45 and 60. I'm already 55 so I'm sticking to the plan; relocating to where I want to retire at in the final quarter this year and calling it quits.

Well that happened a lot sooner than I expected. They've been asking me to relocate at the end of the year and all of a sudden today the VP stopped by my office and asked if I had been thinking about it. I told him that I wasn't going to take the new job, that I was going to retire at the end/beginning of the year.

He knew I was 50-50 when we talked about it a few months ago. I've been letting them know that this might be my last year for a while. He was fine with it and just said to let him know as soon as possible if I start to have second thoughts. I am scheduled to the end of the year on my current project so the timing seems perfect.

I've got a bunch of mixed emotions. It's the first time I've really committed firmly to it.

I did it. I have it made! I talked to the next guy on the ladder when I had the opportunity because I knew he was going to find out from the VP. He was very supportive and happy for me. He said they'd keep me on as long I wished and would work out the end date whenever I wanted it to be at the beginning of next year. (I need to be employed January 1st to get this year's company gains). Then he said.................

Would you consider coming on as a consultant? You could work as many and as few hours as you wish. We'd fly you to the different job locations from wherever you are for a few days to do reviews.
Elated, I tired to keep my cool and said that sounds good, I'll discuss with the wife. He said bring her. If the job is in a city you'd like to visit they'd pay to bring my wife and stay the weekend. And the door is always open if you decide to ever come back full time too.

The backup plan I never saw coming. I'll still be retired, but won't need to worry about running short on money. I'll be in charge if and how many hours I decide to work.

 

[-OZ-]

I'm reading "Die with Zero" right now, and while I don't agree with everything he proposes in the book there are some great nuggets. One of them is spending money on experiences earlier in life, as there are certain things you can do at younger ages that you won't be able to do later, and that applies from your 20s all the way up into your 50s-60s-70s, when we go through the go-go, slow-go, and finally no-go years. He also talks about the concept of compounding memory dividends - you get much more joy over your life from things you did earlier as you can think back on them fondly, tell stories, look at pictures, etc. For me that totally rings true, as there is a reason my college buddies and I still talk about so many of the same stories 30-35 years later.

Yeah, Die with Zero is a good book and this concept of dividends on experiences really resonated with me too.

Half way through this one, and skipped forward to read Chapter 8 to get to the punch line sooner. Just what I needed to help push me off the cliff. I'm done, working until January to get all of this year's company stock gains and that's it. Not letting them talk me into staying any longer. The models in the book show a optimal retirement age between 45 and 60. I'm already 55 so I'm sticking to the plan; relocating to where I want to retire at in the final quarter this year and calling it quits.

Well that happened a lot sooner than I expected. They've been asking me to relocate at the end of the year and all of a sudden today the VP stopped by my office and asked if I had been thinking about it. I told him that I wasn't going to take the new job, that I was going to retire at the end/beginning of the year.

He knew I was 50-50 when we talked about it a few months ago. I've been letting them know that this might be my last year for a while. He was fine with it and just said to let him know as soon as possible if I start to have second thoughts. I am scheduled to the end of the year on my current project so the timing seems perfect.

I've got a bunch of mixed emotions. It's the first time I've really committed firmly to it.

I did it. I have it made! I talked to the next guy on the ladder when I had the opportunity because I knew he was going to find out from the VP. He was very supportive and happy for me. He said they'd keep me on as long I wished and would work out the end date whenever I wanted it to be at the beginning of next year. (I need to be employed January 1st to get this year's company gains). Then he said.................

Would you consider coming on as a consultant? You could work as many and as few hours as you wish. We'd fly you to the different job locations from wherever you are for a few days to do reviews.
Elated, I tired to keep my cool and said that sounds good, I'll discuss with the wife. He said bring her. If the job is in a city you'd like to visit they'd pay to bring my wife and stay the weekend. And the door is always open if you decide to ever come back full time too.

The backup plan I never saw coming. I'll still be retired, but won't need to worry about running short on money. I'll be in charge if and how many hours I decide to work.

 

[-OZ-]

And that may change as you move through different phases of life.

And really it varies year to year. I’ve been tracking expenses since 2017. The years have changed: +$7500, +$23000, -$14000, +$8000, +$4000, +$42000, and this year will probably be up between +$12000-$20000. For a personal average of +7% annual.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Would you consider coming on as a consultant? You could work as many and as few hours as you wish. We'd fly you to the different job locations from wherever you are for a few days to do reviews.

What kind of business/industry are you in? I love the idea of consulting for a few years, but as an individual contributor/sales guy, I'm not really sure how that applies. I've thought about trying to work with early stage start-ups on go-to-market strategies or how to build an initial sales team, but I haven't seen or heard of anyway to stay with my current (or future) company in a reduced role. It doesn't really work like that in sales.

 

[SFBayDuck]

And that may change as you move through different phases of life.

And really it varies year to year. I’ve been tracking expenses since 2017. The years have changed: +$7500, +$23000, -$14000, +$8000, +$4000, +$42000, and this year will probably be up between +$12000-$20000. For a personal average of +7% annual.

Yup! My overall spending is down since moving from the Bay Area to Oregon three years ago. My mortgage/insurance/taxes are significantly less than my rent was there. No sales tax here AND state income taxes are a few percent lower (in fact Oregon ran a surplus last year and sent money back to taxpayers). And my kid graduates from college next year, so she'll come off the payroll at some point in the next few years

Although I do spend close to $10K/year going to Duck games of various sports now (donations, tickets, tailgating, food/beers at games, travel, etc), overall spending is still down.

 

[-OZ-]

my kid graduates from college next year, so she'll come off the payroll at some point in the next few years

Yeah, tell me about it.

 

[Peggy]

Would you consider coming on as a consultant? You could work as many and as few hours as you wish. We'd fly you to the different job locations from wherever you are for a few days to do reviews.

What kind of business/industry are you in? I love the idea of consulting for a few years, but as an individual contributor/sales guy, I'm not really sure how that applies. I've thought about trying to work with early stage start-ups on go-to-market strategies or how to build an initial sales team, but I haven't seen or heard of anyway to stay with my current (or future) company in a reduced role. It doesn't really work like that in sales.

Large heavy civil contractor. All types of infrastructure. I have plenty of colleagues who retired and then did consulting for us for a time, but usually it's for a specific job or to fill a specific need/position that wasn't being filled. I wasn't expecting it to be offered to me, especially in this broader sense.

 

[jamny]

In looking into guardrails as a withdrawal calculation instead of the 4%, I found this to be interesting. Risk based guardrails as opposed to Guyton-Klinger guardrails.
Thoughts?

 

[Peggy]

In looking into guardrails as a withdrawal calculation instead of the 4%, I found this to be interesting. Risk based guardrails as opposed to Guyton-Klinger guardrails.
Thoughts?

Interesting. I think that's what I'd be doing naturally. During a downturn be a lot more careful with the spending and if the market went into correction territory or worse run a cash flow analysis to see if everything was ok assuming it's down for a long period. I like the idea of a signal or guardrail for down periods so you don't accidentally get upside-down.

Conversely, I still don't get why you'd withdrawal and/or spend more just because the market is good. I'd plan more spending first and then if the market/portfolio allowed for it great. If it happens to be during a down turn then maybe it gets delayed.

 

[Peggy]

Been poking around the bogglehead forums and when it comes to when to retire they are just as nuts as the FIRE community, but on the other end of the spectrum. A bunch are well to their 60's or even 70's with 50x annual spending. WTF?

 

[NewlyRetired]

Been poking around the bogglehead forums and when it comes to when to retire they are just as nuts as the FIRE community, but on the other end of the spectrum. A bunch are well to their 60's or even 70's with 50x annual spending. WTF?

why is it nuts that people have saved well and controlled their spending, possibly in the hopes to pass money on?

I am at 62x annual spending right now (56) but don't in any way consider it high because of circumstances I have. I am sure many others have circumstances I could not even guess.

I think it it great when people have saved a lot and control their spending in the hopes to pass money on. I also think it is great for those that want to die with nothing, and all situations in between.

Any one who sets a financial goal and reaches it should not be called nuts imo, even if the goal does not match our own individual needs.

 

[Gally]

why is it nuts that people have saved well and controlled their spending, possibly in the hopes to pass money on?

I think the nuts part is that they are in their 60s/70s with that much saved and still working

ETA: but you are correct in that setting and reaching goals is awesome regardless of what approach you take. As long as you are happy with what you are doing it's great.

 

[Judge Smails]

Been poking around the bogglehead forums and when it comes to when to retire they are just as nuts as the FIRE community, but on the other end of the spectrum. A bunch are well to their 60's or even 70's with 50x annual spending. WTF?

I’ve been on there a lot recently. Great stuff. Getting convinced to go with Fidelity instead of Vanguard. Can still get almost all of the Vanguard funds/ETFs but much better website, mobile app, physical locations, access to advisors. Many longtime Bogleheads have made that switch. You’re right though. One guy posted has $7M just in his deferred taxable retirement accounts alone. Wild.

 

[matttyl]

Been poking around the bogglehead forums and when it comes to when to retire they are just as nuts as the FIRE community, but on the other end of the spectrum. A bunch are well to their 60's or even 70's with 50x annual spending. WTF?

I’ve been on there a lot recently. Great stuff. Getting convinced to go with Fidelity instead of Vanguard. Can still get almost all of the Vanguard funds/ETFs but much better website, mobile app, physical locations, access to advisors. Many longtime Bogleheads have made that switch. You’re right though. One guy posted has $7M just in his deferred taxable retirement accounts alone. Wild.

Those RMDs are gonna suck. I’d like to have just enough in taxable to totally fill up the lower tax brackets every year without running out, but also not enough to have RMD issues.

 

[Peggy]

Been poking around the bogglehead forums and when it comes to when to retire they are just as nuts as the FIRE community, but on the other end of the spectrum. A bunch are well to their 60's or even 70's with 50x annual spending. WTF?

why is it nuts that people have saved well and controlled their spending, possibly in the hopes to pass money on?

I am at 62x annual spending right now (56) but don't in any way consider it high because of circumstances I have. I am sure many others have circumstances I could not even guess.

I think it it great when people have saved a lot and control their spending in the hopes to pass money on. I also think it is great for those that want to die with nothing, and all situations in between.

Any one who sets a financial goal and reaches it should not be called nuts imo, even if the goal does not match our own individual needs.

You're retired. And retired early. These people are working, in jobs that some of them aren't too fond of judging by their posts, up to and past full retirement age. 50X. THAT'S NUTS

 

[SFBayDuck]

Been poking around the bogglehead forums and when it comes to when to retire they are just as nuts as the FIRE community, but on the other end of the spectrum. A bunch are well to their 60's or even 70's with 50x annual spending. WTF?

why is it nuts that people have saved well and controlled their spending, possibly in the hopes to pass money on?

I am at 62x annual spending right now (56) but don't in any way consider it high because of circumstances I have. I am sure many others have circumstances I could not even guess.

I think it it great when people have saved a lot and control their spending in the hopes to pass money on. I also think it is great for those that want to die with nothing, and all situations in between.

Any one who sets a financial goal and reaches it should not be called nuts imo, even if the goal does not match our own individual needs.

My initial take if I were to peruse the BoggleBoards would probably align with @Peggy , because my personal goal is to retire as soon as I can and spend as much money as I can, particularly early on when I can enjoy the experiences it can bring. If I don't experience a bad SOR in those first few years and things are going well, I should be in a position to financially help my daughter while she's in her 20s-30s-40s when it can really make a difference instead of trying to leave something for her when I die (hopefully) in her 60s. I already put her through private high school and we're 3/4 of the way through college, and as long as nothing goes off the rails this next 12 months she'll graduate with $0-$5K in debt. So, along with trying to educate her on personal finance so she doesn't repeat the mistakes I made in my 20s (pretty much all of them, or I would have been able to retire years ago!), I'll have done what I can to set her up to be successful as well.

But @NewlyRetired - thanks for a great reminder that different people have different circumstances and goals. You've been open and generous enough to share about your situation here, and your post is a great reminder that we've all got different things going on. Your goal seems to be to provide for your kid both now and when you're gone, not to maximize your own spending and experiences. Nothing more noble than that!

My default line of thinking remains that many of the unfortunately small overall percentage of Americans who have managed to focus and save for retirement probably are oversaving, working longer than they have to (doesn't mean they may not want to continue), and/or underspending due to outdated and conflicted advice. So that is quickly becoming a passion of mine, no doubt, and one I'd like to start to act on in the next few years outside of posting in this thread too often!

 

[Peggy]

Been poking around the bogglehead forums and when it comes to when to retire they are just as nuts as the FIRE community, but on the other end of the spectrum. A bunch are well to their 60's or even 70's with 50x annual spending. WTF?

I’ve been on there a lot recently. Great stuff. Getting convinced to go with Fidelity instead of Vanguard. Can still get almost all of the Vanguard funds/ETFs but much better website, mobile app, physical locations, access to advisors. Many longtime Bogleheads have made that switch. You’re right though. One guy posted has $7M just in his deferred taxable retirement accounts alone. Wild.

I need take some of the high account balances posted on an anonymous forum with a grain of salt too. If it's really that high and you don't love your job why are you still working.

Surprised the boggles would jump ship to Fidelity, I hadn't seen that. But I agree. Check out Fidelity's zero cost funds. They also have a whole suite of mutual funds designed to beat the low ER of Vanguard. Not the same with ETFs, but, all the Vanguard ETF's are available with no transaction fees.

Here, scroll down:

No minimum investment mutual funds - Fidelity

With no minimums to invest in mutual funds and a zero expense ratio, Fidelity offers value you can't find anywhere else. Fidelity has lower expenses than most comparable funds at Vanguard.

www.fidelity.com

 

[Desert_Power]

I think there is definitely a "barbell" in the FIRE communities out there. On one end you have the types that are comfortable with a lower success rate and/or leanFIRE style of spending. On the other end you have folks that build in so much redundant conservatism that all but ensure they will end up with a much bigger portfolio when they die than when they retire.

The comment made about Bogleheads is similar to the feeling I had when I posted my situation on another forum. They were far to conservative for my views, despite the forums having a lot of helpful resources.

I think the important thing to focus on are the levers you have. If a bad scenario happens, what expenses are cut easily? How hard is it to make more income? How much does your terminal portfolio value really matter to you? If you don't have any levers then, yeah, you need to make sure you've dialed into the right withdrawal rate and strategy.

 

[Peggy]

Just to put a nail in it. Someone who retires at age 70 with 50x, according to Firecalc couch potato, the worst possible scenario is dieing at 100 years of age with exactly what you retired with. The best is an absurd 7.5 times that amount.

That's not knocking those who's greatest joy in life is their job. Those people don't need to retire in their vocabulary.

 

[Nugget]

Just to put a nail in it. Someone who retires at age 70 with 50x, according to Firecalc couch potato, the worst possible scenario is dieing at 100 years of age with exactly what you retired with. The best is an absurd 7.5 times that amount.

That's not knocking those whose greatest joy in life is their job. Those people don't need to retire in their vocabulary.

I’d feel pretty good at 30x at 60. Biggest questions would be LTHC and rising gray divorce rates.

 

[Desert_Power]

On a semi-related note, I was texting earlier with a good friend I haven't seen in a few months. He is "only" 60 and was telling me his vision has gone from 20/20 to 20/150 in the last few months and the doctors have not yet figured out what is going on. He's terrified he will be suddenly blind for the rest of his life.

He's never been an early retirement guy, but I know how much he has been looking forward to retirement soon.

Just an unfortunate reminder about how we do not know what tomorrow brings.

 

[Peggy]

Just to put a nail in it. Someone who retires at age 70 with 50x, according to Firecalc couch potato, the worst possible scenario is dieing at 100 years of age with exactly what you retired with. The best is an absurd 7.5 times that amount.

That's not knocking those whose greatest joy in life is their job. Those people don't need to retire in their vocabulary.

I’d feel pretty good at 30x at 60. Biggest questions would be LTHC and rising gray divorce rates.

I'll be 30x at 55 so I'll let you know how it goes. Lol.

 

[matttyl]

Just to put a nail in it. Someone who retires at age 70 with 50x, according to Firecalc couch potato, the worst possible scenario is dieing at 100 years of age with exactly what you retired with. The best is an absurd 7.5 times that amount.

That's not knocking those whose greatest joy in life is their job. Those people don't need to retire in their vocabulary.

I’d feel pretty good at 30x at 60. Biggest questions would be LTHC and rising gray divorce rates.

Buy a LTC policy. Takes that away.

 

[-OZ-]

why is it nuts that people have saved well and controlled their spending, possibly in the hopes to pass money on?

I am at 62x annual spending right now (56) but don't in any way consider it high because of circumstances I have. I am sure many others have circumstances I could not even guess.

It’s only nuts if they’re not happy along the way.

 

[-OZ-]

Buy a LTC policy. Takes that away.

I’ve been trying to decide but have plenty of time. Whether a LTC policy is worth having when my pensions plus SS will be around $13k / month (in today’s money, with COLA).
My parents are in a retirement center with care, paid for almost exclusively by his teacher’s pension (back then, Michigan took care of its teachers).

 

[SFBayDuck]

On a semi-related note, I was texting earlier with a good friend I haven't seen in a few months. He is "only" 60 and was telling me his vision has gone from 20/20 to 20/150 in the last few months and the doctors have not yet figured out what is going on. He's terrified he will be suddenly blind for the rest of his life.

He's never been an early retirement guy, but I know how much he has been looking forward to retirement soon.

Just an unfortunate reminder about how we do not know what tomorrow brings.

I've written about my parent's experience a bit here, tl;dr is my 82-year old dad had an accident a few years back and lost much of his ability to exercise like he had, and along with that lost much of his motivation to do many things. My 74-year old mom is staying with me this week (she's here visiting her 77-year old sister who has had multiple strokes), and she's now suffering various physical ailments . Before Covid they were putting together plans to travel for 6 weeks through Australia and NZ, had the trip mapped out and the airline miles to cover it. Here we are four years later and she's not sure they'll be physically able to ever do that or any other big trip again. They went from those go go years quickly through the slow go years and now are rapidly approaching the no go years. That sure wasn't their plan, but life happened.

We stayed up talking until midnight last night and by the end I was even more determined to retire* in the next couple of years in my early-mid 50s. They at least travelled pretty extensively when I was growing up, took a big trip every 3-5 years and have seen most of Europe on various types of vacations (their barge trip through Bordeaux is high on my list!). I've still yet to get out of North America and the Caribbean! I've got some world to see, and no guarantees on how long I'll have to see it.

*retire meaning get out of the 50-60 hour, high-stress career I've been in for 30 years and do something more flexible that I enjoy that may pay me 20%-25% of what I make now.

 

[matttyl]

Buy a LTC policy. Takes that away.

I’ve been trying to decide but have plenty of time. Whether a LTC policy is worth having when my pensions plus SS will be around $13k / month (in today’s money, with COLA).
My parents are in a retirement center with care, paid for almost exclusively by his teacher’s pension (back then, Michigan took care of its teachers).

Well, everyone’s situation is different for sure. If you have a decent pension that will be there no matter what, and will be sufficient in size, that’s a huge plus. I have some folks on claim right now (I’m an insurance agent) who have around $14k per month in just LTC expenses - before taxes and other living expenses.

That said, the new way to go about LTC (in my opinion), is actually with a life insurance policy with an LTC rider. As an example, I recently quoted a 59 year old female. The policy has a single premium of $100k - quite a bit of money, I understand. It purchases from the outset $126k of a death benefit with another $126k of LTC benefits (so just over $250k total). Think of each as a “bucket”. If she needs LTC at any point, she starts pulling money dollar for dollar out of the life insurance/death benefit bucket. If she exhausts it, then she goes into the second bucket. If she never needs LTC, there is a death benefit to be passed on (tax free) to her beneficiaries. Even better, as the policy pays dividends (as it’s from a mutual insurance company), the bucket la grow - so if she makes it to 87 and never needed LTC, the death benefit has grown to over $250k.

It’s not for everyone (as not everyone has $100k sitting around in non qualified money, nor is everyone insurable), but it’s a good option for some.

 

[Gatorade]

I retired in 2020. My mom just retired last year because she loved her job and the people that worked there. She also saw her mom spend 19 years in a nursing home and I believe she kept working to avoid that outcome. Everyone has their own priorities.

 

[matttyl]

Been poking around the bogglehead forums and when it comes to when to retire they are just as nuts as the FIRE community, but on the other end of the spectrum. A bunch are well to their 60's or even 70's with 50x annual spending. WTF?

I’ve been on there a lot recently. Great stuff. Getting convinced to go with Fidelity instead of Vanguard. Can still get almost all of the Vanguard funds/ETFs but much better website, mobile app, physical locations, access to advisors. Many longtime Bogleheads have made that switch. You’re right though. One guy posted has $7M just in his deferred taxable retirement accounts alone. Wild.

Thinking more on the $7m in taxable retirement account - how does that even happen? You’re limited on how much you can put in (currently $23k - though can be higher with employer match), and it’s only recently grown to over $20k a year (2000 was the first year it was over $10k). Yeah, you can also have catch up contributions.

I just did a real quick spreadsheet from 1990 to today (35 years total), putting in the max allowed for an individual, getting a dollar for dollar match on it all the way up to the cap - and getting a 10% annual return each and every year like clockwork and even that didn’t get to $7M.

 

[Gatorade]

Buy a LTC policy. Takes that away.

I’ve been trying to decide but have plenty of time. Whether a LTC policy is worth having when my pensions plus SS will be around $13k / month (in today’s money, with COLA).
My parents are in a retirement center with care, paid for almost exclusively by his teacher’s pension (back then, Michigan took care of its teachers).

Well, everyone’s situation is different for sure. If you have a decent pension that will be there no matter what, and will be sufficient in size, that’s a huge plus. I have some folks on claim right now (I’m an insurance agent) who have around $14k per month in just LTC expenses - before taxes and other living expenses.

That said, the new way to go about LTC (in my opinion), is actually with a life insurance policy with an LTC rider. As an example, I recently quoted a 59 year old female. The policy has a single premium of $100k - quite a bit of money, I understand. It purchases from the outset $126k of a death benefit with another $126k of LTC benefits (so just over $250k total). Think of each as a “bucket”. If she needs LTC at any point, she starts pulling money dollar for dollar out of the life insurance/death benefit bucket. If she exhausts it, then she goes into the second bucket. If she never needs LTC, there is a death benefit to be passed on (tax free) to her beneficiaries. Even better, as the policy pays dividends (as it’s from a mutual insurance company), the bucket la grow - so if she makes it to 87 and never needed LTC, the death benefit has grown to over $250k.

It’s not for everyone (as not everyone has $100k sitting around in non qualified money, nor is everyone insurable), but it’s a good option for some.

That's what we did. Life insurance with the LTC rider. Our kids are in no position to take care of us if something happens. This insures our care, but if not needed , leaves a nice nest egg for them.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Been poking around the bogglehead forums and when it comes to when to retire they are just as nuts as the FIRE community, but on the other end of the spectrum. A bunch are well to their 60's or even 70's with 50x annual spending. WTF?

I’ve been on there a lot recently. Great stuff. Getting convinced to go with Fidelity instead of Vanguard. Can still get almost all of the Vanguard funds/ETFs but much better website, mobile app, physical locations, access to advisors. Many longtime Bogleheads have made that switch. You’re right though. One guy posted has $7M just in his deferred taxable retirement accounts alone. Wild.

Thinking more on the $7m in taxable retirement account - how does that even happen? You’re limited on how much you can put in (currently $23k - though can be higher with employer match), and it’s only revolt grown to over $20k a year (2000 was the first year it was over $10k). Yeah, you can also have catch up contributions.

I just did a real quick spreadsheet from 1990 to today (35 years total), putting in the max allowed for an individual, getting a dollar for dollar match on it all the way up to the cap - and getting a 10% annual return each and every year like clockwork and even that didn’t get to $7M.

Mega backdoor Roth, with some private shares or something that went up 1000x? Peter Thiel had like $5B in a Roth a few years back.

 

[-OZ-]

just did a real quick spreadsheet from 1990 to today (35 years total), putting in the max allowed for an individual, getting a dollar for dollar match on it all the way up to the cap - and getting a 10% annual return each and every year like clockwork and even that didn’t get to $7M.

Could be a married couple, both working with 401k, spouse dies. Plus Mega.

 

[matttyl]

Buy a LTC policy. Takes that away.

I’ve been trying to decide but have plenty of time. Whether a LTC policy is worth having when my pensions plus SS will be around $13k / month (in today’s money, with COLA).
My parents are in a retirement center with care, paid for almost exclusively by his teacher’s pension (back then, Michigan took care of its teachers).

Well, everyone’s situation is different for sure. If you have a decent pension that will be there no matter what, and will be sufficient in size, that’s a huge plus. I have some folks on claim right now (I’m an insurance agent) who have around $14k per month in just LTC expenses - before taxes and other living expenses.

That said, the new way to go about LTC (in my opinion), is actually with a life insurance policy with an LTC rider. As an example, I recently quoted a 59 year old female. The policy has a single premium of $100k - quite a bit of money, I understand. It purchases from the outset $126k of a death benefit with another $126k of LTC benefits (so just over $250k total). Think of each as a “bucket”. If she needs LTC at any point, she starts pulling money dollar for dollar out of the life insurance/death benefit bucket. If she exhausts it, then she goes into the second bucket. If she never needs LTC, there is a death benefit to be passed on (tax free) to her beneficiaries. Even better, as the policy pays dividends (as it’s from a mutual insurance company), the bucket la grow - so if she makes it to 87 and never needed LTC, the death benefit has grown to over $250k.

It’s not for everyone (as not everyone has $100k sitting around in non qualified money, nor is everyone insurable), but it’s a good option for some.

That's what we did. Life insurance with the LTC rider. Our kids are in no position to take care of us if something happens. This insures our care, but if not needed , leaves a nice nest egg for them.

Leaves a tax free nest egg for them that is outside of probate. And it frees up your other assets as you no longer have to worry about leaving money behind or saving for an LTC need.

 

[matttyl]

Been poking around the bogglehead forums and when it comes to when to retire they are just as nuts as the FIRE community, but on the other end of the spectrum. A bunch are well to their 60's or even 70's with 50x annual spending. WTF?

I’ve been on there a lot recently. Great stuff. Getting convinced to go with Fidelity instead of Vanguard. Can still get almost all of the Vanguard funds/ETFs but much better website, mobile app, physical locations, access to advisors. Many longtime Bogleheads have made that switch. You’re right though. One guy posted has $7M just in his deferred taxable retirement accounts alone. Wild.

Thinking more on the $7m in taxable retirement account - how does that even happen? You’re limited on how much you can put in (currently $23k - though can be higher with employer match), and it’s only revolt grown to over $20k a year (2000 was the first year it was over $10k). Yeah, you can also have catch up contributions.

I just did a real quick spreadsheet from 1990 to today (35 years total), putting in the max allowed for an individual, getting a dollar for dollar match on it all the way up to the cap - and getting a 10% annual return each and every year like clockwork and even that didn’t get to $7M.

Mega backdoor Roth, with some private shares or something that went up 1000x? Peter Thiel had like $5B in a Roth a few years back.

Mega backdoor roth wouldn’t leave anything in a taxable retirement account.

 

[-OZ-]

Buy a LTC policy. Takes that away.

I’ve been trying to decide but have plenty of time. Whether a LTC policy is worth having when my pensions plus SS will be around $13k / month (in today’s money, with COLA).
My parents are in a retirement center with care, paid for almost exclusively by his teacher’s pension (back then, Michigan took care of its teachers).

Well, everyone’s situation is different for sure. If you have a decent pension that will be there no matter what, and will be sufficient in size, that’s a huge plus. I have some folks on claim right now (I’m an insurance agent) who have around $14k per month in just LTC expenses - before taxes and other living expenses.

That said, the new way to go about LTC (in my opinion), is actually with a life insurance policy with an LTC rider. As an example, I recently quoted a 59 year old female. The policy has a single premium of $100k - quite a bit of money, I understand. It purchases from the outset $126k of a death benefit with another $126k of LTC benefits (so just over $250k total). Think of each as a “bucket”. If she needs LTC at any point, she starts pulling money dollar for dollar out of the life insurance/death benefit bucket. If she exhausts it, then she goes into the second bucket. If she never needs LTC, there is a death benefit to be passed on (tax free) to her beneficiaries. Even better, as the policy pays dividends (as it’s from a mutual insurance company), the bucket la grow - so if she makes it to 87 and never needed LTC, the death benefit has grown to over $250k.

It’s not for everyone (as not everyone has $100k sitting around in non qualified money, nor is everyone insurable), but it’s a good option for some.

That's what we did. Life insurance with the LTC rider. Our kids are in no position to take care of us if something happens. This insures our care, but if not needed , leaves a nice nest egg for them.

Leaves a tax free nest egg for them that is outside of probate. And it frees up your other assets as you no longer have to worry about leaving money behind or saving for an LTC need.

It serves a purpose for sure. It just seems an expensive tool.

 

[SFBayDuck]

Been poking around the bogglehead forums and when it comes to when to retire they are just as nuts as the FIRE community, but on the other end of the spectrum. A bunch are well to their 60's or even 70's with 50x annual spending. WTF?

I’ve been on there a lot recently. Great stuff. Getting convinced to go with Fidelity instead of Vanguard. Can still get almost all of the Vanguard funds/ETFs but much better website, mobile app, physical locations, access to advisors. Many longtime Bogleheads have made that switch. You’re right though. One guy posted has $7M just in his deferred taxable retirement accounts alone. Wild.

Thinking more on the $7m in taxable retirement account - how does that even happen? You’re limited on how much you can put in (currently $23k - though can be higher with employer match), and it’s only revolt grown to over $20k a year (2000 was the first year it was over $10k). Yeah, you can also have catch up contributions.

I just did a real quick spreadsheet from 1990 to today (35 years total), putting in the max allowed for an individual, getting a dollar for dollar match on it all the way up to the cap - and getting a 10% annual return each and every year like clockwork and even that didn’t get to $7M.

Mega backdoor Roth, with some private shares or something that went up 1000x? Peter Thiel had like $5B in a Roth a few years back.

Mega backdoor roth wouldn’t leave anything in a taxable retirement account.

True. Likely either a) a game of telephone going here and details getting shuffled or b) dude straight up exaggerated.

Are there deferred comp plans that would fall into that? I don't really know much about those.