Agree with the Henry part as far as the travel business issues. But, it's the other things that Henry told Stan that were more damning. Not having sitters "back in the day", etc.Not sure I get this. If anything, I would think Henry echoing that the business had problems would reinforce the story.
Also, a man and woman being involved in the Chicago thing making Stan consider that maybe it's his neighbors he's been friends with for years seems like a very big stretch.
In a show where the writing is generally pretty great I thought the whole transition in Stan felt forced and rushed.
Which was particularly weird because the overall pace of the show might generously be characterized as glacial.I thought the whole transition in Stan felt forced and rushed.
Philip told Stan he was embarrassed about the failing business and this and that, and then gave him that long hug like he had just released a big load off his shoulders. Stan comes to learn Henry knew about it, and Henry acted like it was no big secret. That made Stan question Henry more about the family, and the more Henry revealed, the more Stan's suspicions grew. I was expecting Philip to tell Stan something like he and Elizabeth were having marital problems, but he went with the travel agency story instead. Anyway, I don't think of it as a stretch that he is suspecting something is up with Philip and Elizabeth. I think he has always wondered about life at the Jennings house, but he had his own things going on, and he already accused Philip once in the past of having an affair with his ex wife, so he has tried not to jump to conclusions since then, but he has noticed things about them such as their comings and goings at all hours in the night.Not sure I get this. If anything, I would think Henry echoing that the business had problems would reinforce the story.When Henry told Stan he knows about the travel agency being in trouble, I think that made Stan wonder how sincere that talk with Philip was.
Also, a man and woman being involved in the Chicago thing making Stan consider that maybe it's his neighbors he's been friends with for years seems like a very big stretch.
In a show where the writing is generally pretty great I thought the whole transition in Stan felt forced and rushed.
I thought that was a good point. The law of unintended consequences. I actually don't think all of this was rushed or forced. I mean, the whole show is about Russian spies living next door to an FBI agent. The last people Stan ever suspected were his neighbors, one of whom is his best friend. At some point, something had to give. Also, Stan left counterintelligence. He only recently returned to help Aderholt. I think some of his suspicions can be explained by being away, and then coming back with a fresh perspective. It's not like Philip and Elizabeth just suddenly started doing things they've never done before. These are things they've always done. Except that they took for granted that Stan would remain the loyal friend who would never suspect anything. Isn't that how criminals get caught? Look at the chain of events: Elizabeth is overworked because she's working alone; she misses Thanksgiving because of "work"; Philip joins her and leaves Henry with Stan, telling Stan that he's upset his business is failing; Stan finds out from Henry, who is now almost an adult and thus has a more mature perspective on his parents he didn't have as a boy, that the failing business is nothing new and his parents have always worked odd hours as "travel agents"; and, oh, the spy they tracked down in Chicago was killed during extraction by a man and woman who also killed two FBI agents during the time when Stan's neighbors were gone.Liz and Phil are going to be done in by Phil's generosity in helping out in Chicago, aren't they? If it was just Elizabeth, and no "man and woman" team were involved, probably none of this ever happens.
The way the last shot of the ep was Phillip thinking about their wedding, and the fact that the FBI is looking into Russian Orthodox priests, and the fact that the show's creators have said all along it's a "show about marriage" makes me think the priest is going to be the smoking gun, somehow.I think it was also telling that Stan didn't immediately rush to Aderholt with his theory. I'm not sure he totally believes it. But they did show that flashback of the bioweapon spy who was on his death bed describing the "all-American" couple who were actually Russians, and the wife was "very pretty." I think it showed he was remembering bits and pieces, and he asked Aderholt about the old sketches they had of the illegals from before. Also, he was in Philip's car looking at the registration, which was what he was working on with that FBI task force, trying to sift through vehicle registrations to find fake ones. I think that ends up being the smoking gun, that he traces Philip's car and finds out just how much of their lives are fake.
Yeah, I forgot about that, but I was thinking something similar when I saw it, because I remember Aderholt mentioning they were looking into Russian Orthodox priests.The way the last shot of the ep was Phillip thinking about their wedding, and the fact that the FBI is looking into Russian Orthodox priests, and the fact that the show's creators have said all along it's a "show about marriage" makes me think the priest is going to be the smoking gun, somehow.
I do think it's going to look very bad for Stan that he was an FBI counterintelligence agent living next door to two Russian spies and never figured it out.Any chance Stan makes a last second decision in the end to let them flee? Or, perhaps Eliz takes the cyanide, and Stan let's Phillip (and the kids) get out of the country because he really does like him?
Any chance Stan makes a last second decision in the end to let them flee? Or, perhaps Eliz takes the cyanide, and Stan let's Phillip (and the kids) get out of the country because he really does like him?
Agreed, very embarrassing. Would not shock me if he both lets them escape and helps cover it up.I do think it's going to look very bad for Stan that he was an FBI counterintelligence agent living next door to two Russian spies and never figured it out.
Stan could be dating a spy who wants him to get her a job at the FBI, or she could be who she says she really is.I do think it's going to look very bad for Stan that he was an FBI counterintelligence agent living next door to two Russian spies and never figured it out.
I mean, I think the whole point of the State Dept thing is that Paige is 2nd generation, ostensibly totally clean and can pass any background check, and work her way up to a position of influence and power where she can be a great mole for Russia.Yeah, I forgot about that, but I was thinking something similar when I saw it, because I remember Aderholt mentioning they were looking into Russian Orthodox priests.
Philip is going to absolutely lose it when he finds out Elizabeth told Paige to get the State Department internship.
Edit: I thought the State Department internship was Elizabeth doubling down and pulling Paige in deeper, but another comment I read was that it's Elizabeth's way of getting Paige out of being a spy. I suppose that makes sense in light of the conversation she had with the dying artist woman.
I wonder if his Thanksgiving speech was a way of establishing his bona fides that he is too much of a hard-### to let them get away. I do think he's too much of a patriot to let Phillip turn him. But maybe I can see him letting Phillip get away if Phillip convinces him Elizabeth was the real baddie.Any chance Stan makes a last second decision in the end to let them flee? Or, perhaps Eliz takes the cyanide, and Stan let's Phillip (and the kids) get out of the country because he really does like him?
Yeah, I mean, this season especially... do you WANT Elizabeth to get away? Most people probably don't. Or maybe it's better to say they don't care if she makes it out or not. I'm still pulling for her somehow. I think they've done a good job establishing Phillip as someone we DO want to root for.Kind of like how Walt and Tony Soprano were viewed, so are the Jennings. I think a dark ending to some could be happy to others. If that makes sense. As long as they aren't lumberjacks in Oregon, I'm good.
I do. I want the show to end with the fall of communism in Russia and Elizabeth realizing everything she did was for nothing.jfranco77 said:Yeah, I mean, this season especially... do you WANT Elizabeth to get away?
Removing hands and head to make identification of the body more difficult.Can someone take mercy on me and explain what the hell was going on with the axe in the parking garage? I was doing four things at once.
Hard to believe this ends well for anyone. Phillip isn't going back to Russia, Page is off to State Dept, Henry is just an innocent kid, and Elizabeth doesn't get it.Bobcat10 said:Kind of like how Walt and Tony Soprano were viewed, so are the Jennings. I think a dark ending to some could be happy to others. If that makes sense. As long as they aren't lumberjacks in Oregon, I'm good.
It really depends on how you define "well" doesn't it? I don't think everyone is rooting for the FBI guy to die and the murderous Russian spies to get away and live happily ever after.Hard to believe this ends well for anyone. Phillip isn't going back to Russia, Page is off to State Dept, Henry is just an innocent kid, and Elizabeth doesn't get it.
I'm fine that Stan figured it out after this long, but at the end of the day his career would be ####ed and he would probably have an ending similar to his neighbors if he turned them in. The season talks about the 1987 Minnesota Twins, so we're still a ways away from the wall coming down.
Only happy ending IMO would be Stan confronting them, and then Stan disappearing and everyone melting into the American sunset as Gorbachev creates world peas. Otherwise this ends
ETA: OR, OR...OR, Stan's gf doing him in, because she's an "illegal," and everyone lives happily ever after. All I know is that Stan has to die for any of this to end well, he just isn't the guy to turn his back on any of this. Hopefully they don't come up with a scenario where Stans lets them walk, that would be terrible.
ETA 2: This is a top 5 show for me, evah
I think Oleg is as good as dead. His presence has that "just one last job" feel to it, where all he has to do is this one final thing and then he can go back to his wife and young son. Everything is coalescing at this summit, so maybe he teams up with Philip and sacrifices his life to save Philip or something tragically heroic.Another possibility that I thought of is that someone in the changing Soviet regime blows their cover wide open. I haven't really thought this through but it would be a nice unexpected plot twist. Maybe that's a reason for keeping Oleg in the picture because he isn't adding a lot otherwise right now.
To throw her in as a spy at this point would be too much.. She's been at most a side note is some episodes and non-existent in many.. To have her all of sudden be a big part of the spy business would be, as you said, "lame".I think Oleg is as good as dead. His presence has that "just one last job" feel to it, where all he has to do is this one final thing and then he can go back to his wife and young son. Everything is coalescing at this summit, so maybe he teams up with Philip and sacrifices his life to save Philip or something tragically heroic.
At this point, if Stan's wife is some kind of deus ex machina plot device, that would be really lame.
I think the way that Philip has been portrayed as sympathetic, he lives, and Elizabeth, as the antagonist in the relationship, dies.
I think they've been deliberate with leaving some suspicious things about her from the jump. Wouldn't surprise me if she were an illegal all along and she "saves" the Jenningses from Stan and the FBI.To throw her in as a spy at this point would be too much.. She's been at most a side note is some episodes and non-existent in many.. To have her all of sudden be a big part of the spy business would be, as you said, "lame".
Hmm ... maybe Philip will have to decide between her taking down Stan so he can escape back to Russia, or he takes her down to save Stan and get caught. He'd never let Elizabeth get caught, but I could see him choosing Stan's life over his own escape and return to the USSR.I think they've been deliberate with leaving some suspicious things about her from the jump. Wouldn't surprise me if she were an illegal all along and she "saves" the Jenningses from Stan and the FBI.
I don't know how they dont touch on this... the timing is right up against the falling of the wall, and it's hard to believe they wouldn't use that huge historical demarker.I do. I want the show to end with the fall of communism in Russia and Elizabeth realizing everything she did was for nothing.
Wall came down in 1989.... I figured we have to be around '88 and it's just odd they'd get that close and not see that moment in time... even as or especially as, an end point.Doctor Detroit said:Hard to believe this ends well for anyone. Phillip isn't going back to Russia, Page is off to State Dept, Henry is just an innocent kid, and Elizabeth doesn't get it.
I'm fine that Stan figured it out after this long, but at the end of the day his career would be ####ed and he would probably have an ending similar to his neighbors if he turned them in. The season talks about the 1987 Minnesota Twins, so we're still a ways away from the wall coming down.
Only happy ending IMO would be Stan confronting them, and then Stan disappearing and everyone melting into the American sunset as Gorbachev creates world peas. Otherwise this ends
ETA: OR, OR...OR, Stan's gf doing him in, because she's an "illegal," and everyone lives happily ever after. All I know is that Stan has to die for any of this to end well, he just isn't the guy to turn his back on any of this. Hopefully they don't come up with a scenario where Stans lets them walk, that would be terrible.
ETA 2: This is a top 5 show for me, evah
I always assumed this would play a role, as stated above. But... only three more episodes.roadkill1292 said:Another possibility that I thought of is that someone in the changing Soviet regime blows their cover wide open. I haven't really thought this through but it would be a nice unexpected plot twist. Maybe that's a reason for keeping Oleg in the picture because he isn't adding a lot otherwise right now.
https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Washington_Summit_(1987)I guess I could look it up if I really wanted to, but was this "Summit" a real thing that year....any significance?
Don't think we're going to see him again, and if so probably briefly. His purpose towards the plot is obvious, his purpose towards what's going on with the main characters is, obviously, to show that Elizabeth is starting to crack/wobble, the way that Philip did last year.Why are they introducing new characters at the end? That dork that Elizabeth slept with had to be her easiest work ever.
I will say I missed the last half hour due to having to be up at 5 today ? but I was annoyed seeing him in the first half.Don't think we're going to see him again, and if so probably briefly. His purpose towards the plot is obvious, his purpose towards what's going on with the main characters is, obviously, to show that Elizabeth is starting to crack/wobble, the way that Philip did last year.
I really have no clue how it's going to play out, which makes it so intriguing. It now seems very clear that their might be an attempt(s) on P&E's lives, coming down from the Center.
Seems like they're running out of people to kill people withIt now seems very clear that their might be an attempt(s) on P&E's lives, coming down from the Center.
Stan GF is gonna come thru with the chopper.Seems like they're running out of people to kill people with
Yes to see Elizabeth change like that is a masterpiece. That kid knew he was donzo. He should have tried to hit it one more timeI thought that was as good an episode as this show has ever done.
I keep thinking that she is with the KGB.Stan GF is gonna come thru with the chopper.
Can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not.Yes to see Elizabeth change like that is a masterpiece. That kid knew he was donzo. He should have tried to hit it one more time