Major
Footballguy
Yeah, I was fairly captivated the first few seasons but the show fell off so bad I just couldn't keep going. I'm not sure how you WD faithful put up with the pathetic writing.
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The best drama in television history (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Captain Cranks
- Start date
The General
Footballguy
bigmarc27
Footballguy
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Apple Jack
Footballguy
Great pilot. The rest was mostly terrible.The General said:
Thunderlips
Footballguy
Game of Thrones is the best.
Without a doubt, upon watching The Sopranos for about the 5th time.......Tony Soprano is, without a doubt...not even close, the greatest television character in history.
Without a doubt, upon watching The Sopranos for about the 5th time.......Tony Soprano is, without a doubt...not even close, the greatest television character in history.
rockaction
Footballguy
I think the first season of The Wire and the first season of Friday Night Lights are my favorites.
The General
Footballguy
Not sure if it was season 2 or 3 but the one where they were looking for the kid and the barn thing happened and the Rick / Shane conclusion was pretty epic.
All down hill from there.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
I just remember a pregnancy talk and Rick getting all worked up about the kid talking about seeing a deer. That was curtains for me.
The General
Footballguy
I don't remember any of that but there was an amazing moment in that season. They then drove it into the ground, took a steaming dump on it, dug it back up, crumpled it all up into a ball, lit it on fire, threw it in a well...
I’ve only seen GOT and Breaking Bad from the OP list. GOT is the best TV I’ve ever watched. I’m biased towards that genre though and was already invested in the books. Breaking Bad was something wife and I binged years after it was already a thing and hyped. I liked it, don’t have the same feelings towards it as everyone else seems to. I’d never be motivated to watch it again. It was good though.
i haven’t seen most of the television everyone’s mentioning in here. I hated network tv and rarely watched (as it turned out, I missed a lot of stuff I later watched on Netflix and loved). I also rarely had the time to commit to a series so never checked anything out if I hadn’t caught it from the beginning.
i haven’t seen most of the television everyone’s mentioning in here. I hated network tv and rarely watched (as it turned out, I missed a lot of stuff I later watched on Netflix and loved). I also rarely had the time to commit to a series so never checked anything out if I hadn’t caught it from the beginning.
KarmaPolice
Footballguy
I loved the idea they had in the pilot that seemed to point to the zombies having a memory or something. Creepy as hell that the wife was hanging around the house. After about 4-5 episodes it was very clear it was just going to be terrible b-level horror tropes after that as they had to manufacture dumb ways to put the humans in danger.
I liked Friday Night Lights. But I really don't get it when people put it in this realm.
rockaction
Footballguy
I never dug Breaking Bad, Mad Men, and The Sopranos, though I watched them all.
They always had really dark, pessimistic, and nihilistic overtones to them that I don't necessarily care for in art. The Wire and Friday Night Lights are both about communities, one extraordinarily fractured, one with its priorities in the wrong place. But you (at least I) came to love the characters because they were at least human in a real sense, not just abstractions of monsters.
eta* I think I should say abstractions of evil in the form of human monsters, though abstractions of monsters sounds good, too.
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Ilov80s
Footballguy
Interesting take. Mad Men was definitely nihilistic but I thought the characters were quite real and well developed. Don was the only one who was really a monster.
rockaction
Footballguy
Thanks. Though it may not be popular or too accurate, at least I got an "interesting." That said, regarding Mad Men, I never really got around to watching a ton of it. I knew I didn't like what I saw out of the episodes I saw, which is a bit of commercial evil done cynically and deliberately, playing on people's worst fears, greatest hopes, deepest desires -- things which are the real stuff of life. To exploit that, company-wide, is monstrous to me. I saw much more of Breaking Bad and The Sopranos. I guess I just found the flawed humanity of The Wire and Friday Night Lights more appealing than that which is truly the stuff of evil.
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Mister CIA
Footballguy
The Wire, easily. If you disagree, that's your problem. That said, I'm inclined to leave an opening for Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul. Better Call Saul is stellar.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I liked the point about the nihilism. Was dead on. Nihilistic and cynical. You are right about the way marketing cruelly manipulates people. It almost makes that examination more interesting. The banality of evil and all that. Sopranos and Breaking Bad were obviously terrible people. Instead of causing physical harm they are causing social-mental-emotional harm.
McJose
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
The appeal and, i believe, point of Mad Men is its existentialism - that abstractions of masculinity are what delivered us this world and what will deliver its demise. Since i am unburdened with the opinion that abstractions of femininity will necessarily deliver us anything but equivocal grief (the equal cooperation of both sexes being our only real hope of salvation) i am able to enjoy the world Matthew Weiner created as just that.
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rockaction
Footballguy
I forgot about Justified. Along those same lines was Terriers, which was also a great neo - noir/cop show that lasted only a season but is worthy of mention in any great drama thread.
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Ned
Footballguy
The fact that WD is even being discussed in here is a GD travesty.
BB & Wire are 1-2 for me. All of the Wire chatter is making me want to re-watch again.
timschochet
Footballguy
I know I’m going to be ripped for this but- I haven’t been able to watch The Wire. I have tried - at least 4 times now. I find it incredibly dull. I keep waiting for something to happen; I slog through about 3-4 episodes...and I fall asleep.
I know that based on what everyone says it must get great after a while but I just don’t seem to have the patience, given all of the good shows on that I enjoy.
I know that based on what everyone says it must get great after a while but I just don’t seem to have the patience, given all of the good shows on that I enjoy.
Don't Noonan
Footballguy
Not everyone Tim
shader
Footballguy
For me, Breaking Bad is the best thing I've ever seen. Ozymandias floored me. It was the most amazing thing I'd ever seen. They spent 5 years slowly building to that point and it all unraveled in perfection. The patience to wait for that moment and to drop that episode so late is something we'll rarely see again.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
It was always a presidency in an alternate reality. It's a romantic, idealized vision in the mission statement. And I think the first three seasons hold up. Some of 4. What made it good was the musicality of the dialogue, the whip-smart delivery by some exceptional actors, and a welcome feel-good message at the end of the day. It will always hold up, imo. Not unlike Paul McCartney songs.
I know there a lot of people who cannot stand Aaron Sorkin and much of his work, but I have a hard time believing any of them can watch the first two seasons of WW and not find them impressive, if not enjoyable.
rockaction
Footballguy
The bolded is precisely why I don't like it or find it impressive. I think you make a great point about it being always a presidency In an alternate reality, but disagree with your affection for the "musical dialogue" written by Sorkin.
What musical dialogue feels like, to me, is a Shakesperian soliloquy where the actor breaks away from the other actors and is speaking to the audience and not addressing the other characters. It feels as stilted and artificial as the soliloquy as a piece of a character-driven play. Instead of a drama whereby we see the characters deal with each other, we get a subtle breaking of the fourth wall in a indirect address to the audience through the use of the device of musical dialogue itself.
In the end, I've watched the West Wing. I've never liked it nor found it impressive in the least.
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Abrantes
Footballguy
The Wire is my favorite and I'm currently making my way through it a third time. That might be commonplace for others, but I'm not sure I've done that for any other show. I realize it's not for everyone, though, and I don't begrudge those who don't dig it.
Breaking Bad has a handful of fantastic characters and performances, and great drama, but also a lot of nonsense. Vince Gilligan later said that if he were to do it again, he'd narrow the focus a lot more to Walter/Hank - and I do feel we see that narrower focus on Better Call Saul, with great results.
Didn't see The Sopranos.
Game of Thrones is an incredible viewing experience, and while I may have simply missed this in the case of the other shows, it's easily the biggest "phenomenon" in terms of people coming together to share their thoughts/theories/hype on social media in real-time, which makes it feel like a huge event. That said, though I enjoy the show and some of the books, it's always had issues. Inconsistent pacing, sexposition, bad dialogue...it's been there from day one.
Mad Men does a lot of things right, and the production design is gorgeous, but it rung mostly hollow to me. Don Draper is a ####head, of course, but the show doesn't bother making us sympathize with the other characters either, barring an exception or other. Whole show feels like it would've worked better as a play, IMO.
Breaking Bad has a handful of fantastic characters and performances, and great drama, but also a lot of nonsense. Vince Gilligan later said that if he were to do it again, he'd narrow the focus a lot more to Walter/Hank - and I do feel we see that narrower focus on Better Call Saul, with great results.
Didn't see The Sopranos.
Game of Thrones is an incredible viewing experience, and while I may have simply missed this in the case of the other shows, it's easily the biggest "phenomenon" in terms of people coming together to share their thoughts/theories/hype on social media in real-time, which makes it feel like a huge event. That said, though I enjoy the show and some of the books, it's always had issues. Inconsistent pacing, sexposition, bad dialogue...it's been there from day one.
Mad Men does a lot of things right, and the production design is gorgeous, but it rung mostly hollow to me. Don Draper is a ####head, of course, but the show doesn't bother making us sympathize with the other characters either, barring an exception or other. Whole show feels like it would've worked better as a play, IMO.
Apple Jack
Footballguy
If nothing else, Mad Men is brilliant for giving us Roger Sterling.
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I am watching deadwood and i just dont get the love. I am on season 3 so it isnt like i should just stick out a few more episodes or something.
PIK95
Footballguy
Deadwood had some incredible moments and was a show when there still were not any? of these types of shows outside of HBO.
Getting rid of the kidney stone, the eyeball fight, and anything Mr. Wu were incredible moments in TV, especially considering the time. The cursing alone was nuts for its time and paved the way for cursing on freaking TBS probably.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
i'd start a best British drama thread but GoT would own it. Still, a discussion of TV drama should have a place for Wooster & Jeeves, Doctor Who, Downtown Abby, Jewel in the Crown, the original House of Cards (only 40x better than the American), I Claudius, Sherlock, Little Dorrit, Wolf Hall, Luther, Prime Suspect, Brideshead, Upstairs, Downstairs, Unforgotten, Singing Detective etc etc.
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parasaurolophus
Footballguy
I actually just watched the eyeball fight last night. I was definitely entertained, but not in the wow this is amazing drama kind of way. I actually found the fight up to that point super lame, which probably honestly helped because then the surprise level was so great. That episode started with a man yelling at a fat woman's boobs in the bathtub, which was funny, but got kind of weird since they made it go on for so long.
I do love Mr. Wu though. He is like an angry asian groot.
TheIronSheik
SUPER ELITE UPPER TIER
sho nuff
Footballguy
I have watched it a few times...I think there are obvious references (as with any show before much of the technology we have now) that are dated. But the dialog has been great.
And yeah, it always seemed in alternate reality as the President was one who was seen as a good man trying to actually do whats best.
sho nuff
Footballguy
Lost was like that as well.
I think part of this, especially with it airing now...is that so many shows now are Netflix or other where you can just binge them. There isn't that slow, weekly release giving time to talk and theorize as to whats next.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Did you watch Broadchurch? I liked that quite a bit. Also even though almost the entire cast is European and it’s all filmed in Europe, GOT is produced by HBO so it’s still an American production I think?
Also I need to watch Wolf Hall again. That was superb.
As usual, any 'Best All Time' list has to be stuff in the last 10 years only?
Bonanza ran for 20 successful years so I'd put it at Greatest even though I've only seen a few episodes and not invested.
Dallas - whole country was mezmorized over Who Shot JR?! Moved Soap Operas to primetime with Dynasty, Falcon's Crest, etc... following after.
General Hospital - I might be wrong but longest running soap? I feel like you've got to include one soap opera in list of greatest TV dramas. Soap operas were a mainstay for decades from the time TV started to current. This is what stay-at-homes and grandparents watched for decades. Luke & Laura was the schits.
Law&Order - Longevity. Ushered in all the crime dramas.
Survivor - hate it personally but first major 'reality' show that hit network tv and took off with everyone watching. Spawned all the 'last one left' shows. I realize MTV and others had something similar before but Survivor gripped the nation and spawned all the reality, imo.
MASH - most watched episode by % of pop outside of Super Bowl, right? Successful sitcoms prior to this (Honeymooners, I Love Lucy, Andy Griffith, etc...) didn't hit on serious topics. After MASH, they almost all try to tackle some serious issues within.
Does a mini-series count? - Roots.
My Personal Favorites in order - GoT, MASH, BB,
Bonanza ran for 20 successful years so I'd put it at Greatest even though I've only seen a few episodes and not invested.
Dallas - whole country was mezmorized over Who Shot JR?! Moved Soap Operas to primetime with Dynasty, Falcon's Crest, etc... following after.
General Hospital - I might be wrong but longest running soap? I feel like you've got to include one soap opera in list of greatest TV dramas. Soap operas were a mainstay for decades from the time TV started to current. This is what stay-at-homes and grandparents watched for decades. Luke & Laura was the schits.
Law&Order - Longevity. Ushered in all the crime dramas.
Survivor - hate it personally but first major 'reality' show that hit network tv and took off with everyone watching. Spawned all the 'last one left' shows. I realize MTV and others had something similar before but Survivor gripped the nation and spawned all the reality, imo.
MASH - most watched episode by % of pop outside of Super Bowl, right? Successful sitcoms prior to this (Honeymooners, I Love Lucy, Andy Griffith, etc...) didn't hit on serious topics. After MASH, they almost all try to tackle some serious issues within.
Does a mini-series count? - Roots.
My Personal Favorites in order - GoT, MASH, BB,
The General
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
I'm going to have to take another crack at that. I moved to a place that didn't carry BBC America right after i 1st started watching it. I wasn't that impressed anyway - a lot of British mysteries leave me cold. Too nebulous most of the time. But i keep hearing good things so should probably try again. Loved Unforgotten though - a cold case show w the woman from Spooks - S3 kicks off this month on PBS Masterpiece.
They used to say about actors like Gielgud and O'Toole that one could watch them recite from the phone book. Well, I could watch Mark Rylance just sit and think, so the inscrutability of his Cromwell made Wolf Hall a joy. And what isn't Damian Lewis wonderful in?! WH is based on a series of novels and there's a new one being written and Rylance & Lewis are down to film it, they say, though that will put the next batch quite a ways away, i'd think. I hope the latter gets to play Fat Henry in that.
But if there's one show i wish everyone would watch, it's Wooster and Jeeves, from 25 yrs ago. House's Hugh Laurie and legendary British polymorph Stephen Fry provide the truer, British twit picture of the Downton Abbey era and it's a delight.
The General
Footballguy
Rewatching Breaking Bad right now - will finish today on a flight. I can feel the impending doom of the next couple episodes.
It’s just awesome. Aaron Paul really did crush that role. Easy to get run over by Cranston, but he held his own.
There were a few suspend disbelief moments that I didn’t realize at the time or had forgotten but have really enjoyed it.
Best thing they did was end it when they did. Show went out like a boss.
It’s just awesome. Aaron Paul really did crush that role. Easy to get run over by Cranston, but he held his own.
There were a few suspend disbelief moments that I didn’t realize at the time or had forgotten but have really enjoyed it.
Best thing they did was end it when they did. Show went out like a boss.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yes on Rylance and yes on Lewis. The Wof Hall novels are my very lengthy list of books to read. I know I will like them as I am a sucker for damn near anything British (just started Howards End this morning). I am afraid of I was around in 1776 I would have been a loyalist and a 100 years earlier a royalist.
As for Broadchurch, it took me a little while to get pulled in. The mystery is fine but the strength of the show are the 2 leads. David Tennant and now Oscar winner Olivia Colman are up there with Bunk/McNulty and Woody/McConaughey for best detective duos in modern TV.
