The Covid Relief Bill (4 Viewers)

[jm192]

I'm not even sure we're doing this are we?  I think it's more not about the sides, but the individuals.  "Why are you concerned about this now when you didn't seem to be bothered by it before?"  Maybe that's just me since I know politicians are going to be political.  My wonder is why people put up with that.  It's never made sense to me.

This topic is the perfect illustration of that specific problem.  Just two months ago, the Dems proposed $2K only bill that the Senate didn't bring to the floor.  Many, rightfully IMO, said the move by McConnell was complete ####.  Now, the Dems are doing their dog and pony and those that were silent or defending McConnell are upset like those who were calling McConnell's move complete ####.  And those who were upset with McConnell are now defending the Dem's version of the same.  It's one of the most ###### up things I've seen...It's blatantly pathetic and has nothing to do with the politicians themselves rather those who support them and their actions.

Yeah, I think McConnell should have done better then.  Sorry if I didn't post that enough.  I guess I get tired of everytime I criticize someone I'm forced to answer "Why did you stay silent back in December?!!>!>! Hypokrit!""

It would be great if we could discuss the issues and not this constant "You didn't criticize your guy enuff back when."  It's insufferable.  It makes me not want to post here.  

Regardless of what Mitch did or didn't do, the Dems proposing a stimulus package with 9% going to COVID relief is in my eyes bad.  

 

[Mile High]

the Dems proposing a stimulus package with 9% going to COVID relief is in my eyes bad.  

They aren't.  Stimulus checks alone are around 25% of bill.

 

[jm192]

This is a false interpretation of the OP. 
I never wrote “why won’t Republicans do the right thing?” or “why won’t Republicans help Americans?” I don’t even think of such terms. My question was not an ethical one; it was a political question. With so much of the public in favor of the bill I was surprised that not a single Republican, not even the supposed moderates, were joining the Democrats on what would clearly be a popular move and which is going to pass anyhow. That was my point, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. 

I assume most Republicans support the 9% of Covid relief and not the other 91%, and a lot of people are just being asked do you support a stimulus package yes or no

 

[jm192]

They aren't.  Stimulus checks alone are around 25% of bill.

The Republicans seem to think it’s 9%, but even if I concede that it’s 25%, why are we OK with that for our Covid relief bill?

 

[jm192]

95% of the discussion is about what the other side did back in December. We can’t ever have a productive discussion about what’s actually happening because everyone Hass to stop and ask why you’re being such a stupid hypocrite and why you didn’t talk about Mitch blocking the December bill enough. I absolutely love that game. I have now acknowledge that Mitch McConnell did bad in December, may I now speak freely on what’s happening today please press one if yes

 

[Mile High]

The Republicans seem to think it’s 9%, but even if I concede that it’s 25%, why are we OK with that for our Covid relief bill?

That brings us to the question of what’s actually in the bill.

Republicans have raised this question throughout the discussion of Biden’s proposal, in some cases exaggerating the nature of the spending that’s not tied directly to COVID-19 containment.

A long list of initiatives is clearly related to the pandemic, however.

About 22% of the total bill comes from the $422 billion set aside for $1,400-per-person stimulus checks. Another 13% ($246 billion) is for extending additional unemployment funding of $400 a week.

A combined 12% is going to:

Subsidized COBRA for laid-off workers.

Affordable Care Act subsidies for the next two years.

Expanded nutrition assistance to replace school lunch programs during the pandemic.

Funding for testing and contact tracing.

Disaster Relief Fund increases and covering COVID-19-related funeral expenses.

Grants to airlines and contractors to freeze layoffs through September.

Defense Production Act funding for medical supplies.

Grants for restaurants and bars that have lost revenue in the pandemic.

Economic Injury Disaster Loan Advance grants of up to $10,000 per business.

Another $519 billion – 27% of the total – is going to state and local governments and schools, much of which will make up losses related to the pandemic and help schools reopen. Republicans note much of the school funding, however, won’t be spent immediately.

If the government and school aid is included in this category, about 85% of the American Rescue Plan is pandemic-related, according to a breakdown by the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.

 

[jm192]

It’s bothersome to me that the majority of this bill won’t go to Covid relief and we’re OK with that. I won’t lose any sleep if they pass it. I hope the American people get the help that they need.

but Tim and other posters acting like Republicans are being bad once again for no reason when they have said repeatedly that the pork is the hold up it’s ridiculous.

Furthermore, a lot of the people that seem to be pushing for pass it anyway and let California have their tunnel and New York have the bridge all the expense of federal tax payer dollars, are the same people saying that we need more wealth tax to raise revenue.

I guess it gives me pause thinking that Jeff Bezos owes New York a bridge.

 

[Stoneworker]

So you didn't say?

Democrats (and Democrats only) prioritized impeachment over pandemic relief. End of story.

Whatever. Clearly you're playing some sort of gotcha game. Move along.

 

[Rich Conway]

95% of the discussion is about what the other side did back in December. We can’t ever have a productive discussion about what’s actually happening because everyone Hass to stop and ask why you’re being such a stupid hypocrite and why you didn’t talk about Mitch blocking the December bill enough. I absolutely love that game. I have now acknowledge that Mitch McConnell did bad in December, may I now speak freely on what’s happening today please press one if yes

To be fair, a lot of the references to December are in response to posts along the lines of "Why can't Democrats just pass a bill with checks and nothing else?"

 

[Desert_Power]

This from Romney's WSJ editorial...

*  The Congressional Budget Office’s recent analysis of the plan found that more than a third of the proposed funding—$700 billion—wouldn’t be spent until 2022 or later, undermining the administration’s claim that the massive price tag is justified for urgent pandemic-related needs.

*  The Biden stimulus calls for $170 billion for education yet has no realistic plan to reopen K-12 schools. Further, of the $80 billion Congress has already authorized for education, $68 billion hasn’t yet been used by schools and universities. Stunningly, the CBO says only 4% of the K-12 spending in the Biden bill would occur in 2021 and that some education and labor funds would remain unspent in 2029, after a potential Biden second term.

*  Extending federal supplemental unemployment benefits beyond March 14 is a good idea that merits bipartisan support. But the Biden stimulus calls for checks of $400 a week in addition to state checks through September. At that level, the majority of the unemployed would make more by not working. 

*  Senate Republicans will support whatever is needed to expand Covid testing, accelerate vaccine delivery and support health providers. We will likewise support robust assistance for those who have been crushed financially by the pandemic, including by losing their jobs.

It's interesting to imagine a world with Mitt actually consistently stands up for what he believes in. Instead, he keeps retreating into pure partisanship when he thinks it helps him. He is just another opportunist and its why he didn't get elected in 2012

 

[jm192]

It's interesting to imagine a world with Mitt actually consistently stands up for what he believes in. Instead, he keeps retreating into pure partisanship when he thinks it helps him. He is just another opportunist and its why he didn't get elected in 2012

Mitt sides with the left;  what a man of honor and principle.

Mitt doesn’t side with the left:  what an opportunist.

 

[Desert_Power]

Mitt sides with the left;  what a man of honor and principle.

Mitt doesn’t side with the left:  what an opportunist.

 He flip flops all over the place. He spent the 2012 election cycle attacking a health care plan that he basically created. It is what it is.

 

[The Commish]

Yeah, I think McConnell should have done better then.  Sorry if I didn't post that enough.  I guess I get tired of everytime I criticize someone I'm forced to answer "Why did you stay silent back in December?!!>!>! Hypokrit!""

It would be great if we could discuss the issues and not this constant "You didn't criticize your guy enuff back when."  It's insufferable.  It makes me not want to post here.  

Regardless of what Mitch did or didn't do, the Dems proposing a stimulus package with 9% going to COVID relief is in my eyes bad.  

I get it.  it can be annoying, but reality is, these politicians are ONLY going to do the MINIMUM it takes to keep themselves in their positions.  So, if we want change, we need to focus on OUR behavior and what we tolerate.  Of course, this is coming from a guy who wants things to actually change.  I know many here are just here for the  and  .  It's wise just to ignore the nonsensically framed "standards" and baitless hooks thrown over the side of their fishing boats.

 

[The Commish]

The Republicans seem to think it’s 9%, but even if I concede that it’s 25%, why are we OK with that for our Covid relief bill?

This goes back to my comment earlier (to you maybe?) stating I am confident there is pork in the bill, but am NOT confident in how the GOP / Dems determine what the "pork" is.  I mean in this thread, money going to schools to help them through this mess "shouldn't count" nor should money going to state/local governments, for reasons I don't really understand.

So while I agree that money needs to be in the hands of individuals first and foremost, I can also acknowledge that money in this bill being slated for unemployment coffers as well as to replenish cofferes of state/local governments are also areas that "count" as part of the COVID funding.

 

[GoBirds]

Mitt sides with the left;  what a man of honor and principle.

Mitt doesn’t side with the left:  what an opportunist.

You didn’t think you were still in the far Left sub forum?

 

[sho nuff]

You didn’t think you were still in the far Left sub forum?

Far left?  In what way?  Seriously, this gets posted by some and never actually shown how.

With something other than a laugh...what about this place is far left?

 

[GoBirds]

Far left?  In what way?  Seriously, this gets posted by some and never actually shown how.

With something other than a laugh...what about this place is far left?

Example A right on cue. 

 

[joffer]

lol @ prioritizing impeachment.  the president incited a riot at the capitol to stop certification of the election, and it was handled (house) and could have been handled (senate) before Biden was even sworn in.  give me a break.

 

[sho nuff]

Example A right on cue. 

That isn’t an example of anything.  Its a direct question about your post.  Why is it so hard to answer...unless the post  was made in bad faith to get reaction?

 

[quick-hands]

Far left?  In what way?  Seriously, this gets posted by some and never actually shown how.

With something other than a laugh...what about this place is far left?

This board is drifting farther and left all the time.   It's nowhere near where it's started in 2003.   Maybe that's for the good.   Maybe it's not.   

 

[jm192]

lol @ prioritizing impeachment.  the president incited a riot at the capitol to stop certification of the election, and it was handled (house) and could have been handled (senate) before Biden was even sworn in.  give me a break.

So it’s your position they didn’t do impeachment instead of addressing Covid relief?

I think Trump should’ve been impeached, I wish they had blocked him from running again.

But it was definitely put on the agenda in such a way that Covid relief got pushed back

 

[quick-hands]

That isn’t an example of anything.  Its a direct question about your post.  Why is it so hard to answer...unless the post  was made in bad faith to get reaction?

Your asking for a list of how it's drifted farther left?    You are a peach.

 

[John123]

That isn’t an example of anything.  Its a direct question about your post.  Why is it so hard to answer...unless the post  was made in bad faith to get reaction?

When the owner of the board says he knows something about his message board, you should probably just acknowledge that something as true.

 

[sho nuff]

This board is drifting farther and left all the time.   It's nowhere near where it's started in 2003.   Maybe that's for the good.   Maybe it's not.   

Again...in what way?  Give some examples of how its “far” left.  Because I dint disagree it has moved more liberal.  But to claim its far left vs moderate left seems odd.  This board isn’t heavily supportive of the far left ideals.  There are a few progressives...but a minority for sure. Id say there are more conservatives here than progressives posting.

 

[GoBirds]

That isn’t an example of anything.  Its a direct question about your post.  Why is it so hard to answer...unless the post  was made in bad faith to get reaction?

Please link any other forum that isn’t traditionally political with this high of a percentage of far Left talking points....if you can’t then stop chasing after me and wasting my time. TIA. 

 

[sho nuff]

Your asking for a list of how it's drifted farther left?    You are a peach.

Im asking for an example of how it is “far left”. Not that it has moved further left than in the past.

And you can do without trying to get personal.

 

[sho nuff]

When the owner of the board says he knows something about his message board, you should probably just acknowledge that something as true.

I dont believe the owner ever called the  place far left either.

 

[sho nuff]

Please link any other forum that isn’t traditionally political with this high of a percentage of far Left talking points....if you can’t then stop chasing after me and wasting my time. TIA. 

Or how about you be in good faith and answer what is asked of you about the assertions you are making.

What other forums there are have zero bearing on what this place is.

What far left talking points...please be specific rather than making what I would call baseless assertions about this place.

Or better yet...don't make claims and assertions you are unwilling to back up with any examples.  Rather than blaming it on me for questioning you.

I put it to you that this forum has more conservatives than it does progressives or people on the far left.  My opinion is that the idea of far left is skewed by your own bias.  That you probably consider me far left despite me not really agreeing with much from progressives at all.

 

[GoBirds]

Or how about you be in good faith and answer what is asked of you about the assertions you are making.

What other forums there are have zero bearing on what this place is.

What far left talking points...please be specific rather than making what I would call baseless assertions about this place.

Or better yet...don't make claims and assertions you are unwilling to back up with any examples.  Rather than blaming it on me for questioning you.

I put it to you that this forum has more conservatives than it does progressives or people on the far left.  My opinion is that the idea of far left is skewed by your own bias.  That you probably consider me far left despite me not really agreeing with much from progressives at all.

Figured you would dodge it, let’s move along. 

 

[sho nuff]

Figured you would dodge it, let’s move along. 

Odd to complain I have dodged an irrelevant question when you have been dodging questions completely.  You tried to deflect and were called out for that too.

Yes...move along knowing this is not a far left board.  Never has been...isn't moving that way either.  That much is crystal clear.

 

[Rich Conway]

When the owner of the board says he knows something about his message board, you should probably just acknowledge that something as true.

Weird.  The owners of Twitter and Facebook say they don't discriminate against conservatives, yet you don't believe them.

 

[John123]

Weird.  The owners of Twitter and Facebook say they don't discriminate against conservatives, yet you don't believe them.

Link to where I've said that?  I'm not saying I believe them but clearly you've read me posting that so I'd like you to show your work. 

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Or how about you be in good faith and answer what is asked of you about the assertions you are making.

What other forums there are have zero bearing on what this place is.

What far left talking points...please be specific rather than making what I would call baseless assertions about this place.

Or better yet...don't make claims and assertions you are unwilling to back up with any examples.  Rather than blaming it on me for questioning you.

I put it to you that this forum has more conservatives than it does progressives or people on the far left.  My opinion is that the idea of far left is skewed by your own bias.  That you probably consider me far left despite me not really agreeing with much from progressives at all.

  Seriously, do you keep a straight face when posting this nonsense?  I mean if you're going to mash the keyboard demanding it of others, at least do the same first.

 

[tri-man 47]

I’m glad Republicans voted against $1 trillion in non-COVID spending in the COVID relief bill. 
 

https://www.theblaze.com/news/kennedy-biden-covid-relief-bill-orgy-of-pork

That article includes in its list $40 billion for higher education, and that bothers me.  Since I've worked in higher ed for thirty four years (thirty of those as the controller, managing the finances), I recognize the struggles that schools have faced with lower enrollments (due to the effect of COVID on family incomes, fears, etc.), lost housing revenues, cancellation of revenue-generating programs (theatre; music), etc.  It's an indirect effect, but it's a COVID effect nonetheless.

 

[quick-hands]

Im asking for an example of how it is “far left”. Not that it has moved further left than in the past.

And you can do without trying to get personal.

Well how about you go to the ffa and go back as far as you can.  Start reading and get back to me.

I think maurile Tremblay had a post about the drift of the main street left vs the drift of the main street right.    The left has moved farther left.   And the right has moved left as well.  I'm sure you probably  already  saw it.

 

[jm192]

Weird.  The owners of Twitter and Facebook say they don't discriminate against conservatives, yet you don't believe them.

This is the worst example of whataboutism. 
 

What about the time you didn’t believe person A so you don’t get to believe person B?

 

[Rich Conway]

Link to where I've said that?  I'm not saying I believe them but clearly you've read me posting that so I'd like you to show your work. 

I was referring to global you, conservatives.  Sorry, I should have clarified.  My fault.

 

[GoBirds]

Odd to complain I have dodged an irrelevant question when you have been dodging questions completely.  You tried to deflect and were called out for that too.

Yes...move along knowing this is not a far left board.  Never has been...isn't moving that way either.  That much is crystal clear.

Shout it as loud as you want, flood the board with posts pushing your narrative,  it will never make it fact. Sorry. 

 

[Ilov80s]

Our government is broken. We are the government. We are broken. It’s pretty simple and this year has made sure that’s crystal clear to anyone looking. If we don’t change our entire mindset, we are going to stay in decline. 

 

[Rich Conway]

This is the worst example of whataboutism. 
 

What about the time you didn’t believe person A so you don’t get to believe person B?

This is nothing to do with "what about when".  It's asking for consistency right now.  Do we believe owners or not?  It really is hypocritical to state that we should believe owner A because he's the owner but then not believe owner B simply because we don't like what owner B has to say.

Personally, I believe Joe when he says the moderators are instructed to be even-handed to "both sides".  Why?  Because Joe is a stand-up guy and that's a statement of fact; either they are or they aren't so instructed.  I don't believe Joe is correct in his assessment of the political slant of the board.  Why?  Because Joe admits to reading less than 10% of the board and because it's a statement of opinion that carries with it one's own bias.  I also don't necessarily believe Twitter or Facebook regarding anything.  Why?  For one, because I have virtually no personal association or knowledge regarding the owners of those places.  For another, because I suspect that the motivation of most public statements by those particular groups is to maximize stock price.

 

[jm192]

This is nothing to do with "what about when".  It's asking for consistency right now.  Do we believe owners or not?  It really is hypocritical to state that we should believe owner A because he's the owner but then not believe owner B simply because we don't like what owner B has to say.

Personally, I believe Joe when he says the moderators are instructed to be even-handed to "both sides".  Why?  Because Joe is a stand-up guy and that's a statement of fact; either they are or they aren't so instructed.  I don't believe Joe is correct in his assessment of the political slant of the board.  Why?  Because Joe admits to reading less than 10% of the board and because it's a statement of opinion that carries with it one's own bias.  I also don't necessarily believe Twitter or Facebook regarding anything.  Why?  For one, because I have virtually no personal association or knowledge regarding the owners of those places.  For another, because I suspect that the motivation of most public statements by those particular groups is to maximize stock price.

Yet you believe some politicians when they say something but not Trump.   
 

So we can pick and choose politicians but not business owners?

Or maybe you believe all politicians or don't believe all politicians.  But most seem to feel that it's ok to not believe Trump because of justifiable reasons x y and z.  

So...is it also ok to believe Joe and not believe Zuckerburg because of justifiable reasons x y and z.  

 

[sho nuff]

Well how about you go to the ffa and go back as far as you can.  Start reading and get back to me.

I think maurile Tremblay had a post about the drift of the main street left vs the drift of the main street right.    The left has moved farther left.   And the right has moved left as well.  I'm sure you probably  already  saw it.

That doesn’t equate this place is far left though.  That some have moved further left doesn’t mean as a whole the democrats here or the board is far left.  That is a giant leap in logic.

Telling that when asked...nobody who believes this place is far left can ever answer with anything specific.

 

[sho nuff]

Shout it as loud as you want, flood the board with posts pushing your narrative,  it will never make it fact. Sorry. 

Hi hat narrative?  Seems your post was the one making some narrative about this place  that isn’t factual and you cant support.

 

[Rich Conway]

Yet you believe some politicians when they say something but not Trump. 
 

So we can pick and choose politicians but not business owners?

I rarely believe politicians.  In Trump's case, I usually disbelieve him because he has a history of lying.  It's not the "who", it's the "why".  That is, when one's justification for believing someone is "because he's the owner" then I expect consistency with regard to that justification.

 

[sho nuff]

For specifics from me.  If this place  was far left...wouldn’t the majority support progressives?  Even Bernie, as charismatic as he is, his ideas are not supported by any majority.   
Most have a negative opinion of AOC policy wise and her antics.  There is not some groundswell of support fro the squad.

Instead, more support for the moderate candidates like Biden.  Like Pete.  Even looking for moderate to liberal Republicans like Flake and Kasich.  Would that be true if this place was “far left”.

 

[GoBirds]

  Seriously, do you keep a straight face when posting this nonsense?  I mean if you're going to mash the keyboard demanding it of others, at least do the same first.

Yep, never holds himself to the same standard he tries to demand of others....very tired act. 

 

[jm192]

I rarely believe politicians.  In Trump's case, I usually disbelieve him because he has a history of lying.  It's not the "who", it's the "why".  That is, when one's justification for believing someone is "because he's the owner" then I expect consistency with regard to that justification.

I edited my post to address this:

I have a bad habit of lumping posters together.  And so I realized you may tend to not believe any politicians.  But certainly a lot of the board argues that Trump always lies and that's why he's ok to not lend belief to.  Which is perfectly rational.  

I assume for business owners, there are also rational reasons to not believe them.  But your bigger point is fair.  Just because someone owns it doesn't mean they know all the happenings.

 

[FairWarning]

Again...in what way?  Give some examples of how its “far” left.  Because I dint disagree it has moved more liberal.  But to claim its far left vs moderate left seems odd.  This board isn’t heavily supportive of the far left ideals.  There are a few progressives...but a minority for sure. Id say there are more conservatives here than progressives posting.

What i notice on most boards is the left drifts further left, and the right moves further right (if that makes sense).

 

[jm192]

For specifics from me.  If this place  was far left...wouldn’t the majority support progressives?  Even Bernie, as charismatic as he is, his ideas are not supported by any majority.   
Most have a negative opinion of AOC policy wise and her antics.  There is not some groundswell of support fro the squad.

Instead, more support for the moderate candidates like Biden.  Like Pete.  Even looking for moderate to liberal Republicans like Flake and Kasich.  Would that be true if this place was “far left”.

I'm not sure how we've gotten so far down the rabbit hole of "Is this board more left" in a thread about the COVID relief bill.  

I assume the post meant there's a constant growing percentage of Liberal posters--as opposed to the collective body is moving left ideologically.  

I actually think the majority of the posters on the board are very rational, reasonable liberals.  

I think a lot of times we talk past each other and just assume what someone believes and that perhaps lends to the idea that "we're moving towards socialism."

 

[-jb-]

I’m not quite getting the argument that two months in isn’t immediate enough, therefore Biden broke his promise and Democrats are all liars? Seems a little weak. 

If memory serves there is a deadline in April in which unemployment runs out. The goal was always to get this passed prior to that date. 

I won't defend the dems are all liars bit (although all politicians are), but the fact that Biden's team waited week after week after inauguration to get things presented on the floor was a massive #### up.  He knew what day he would be president.  he had time to prepare.  he campaigned in Georgia on "immediately."  those votes were 100% affected by that promise.  those votes shifted congress.  and then he waited.  massive miss IMHO.