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The Covid Relief Bill (1 Viewer)

FairWarning said:
What i notice on most boards is the left drifts further left, and the right moves further right (if that makes sense).
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I think it's a pretty small percentage of the nation that posts about politics online.  And those people are often more polarized and/or steadfast in their beliefs.  

I also think that the internet has become a place where bold/hot takes get likes and retweets, etc.  And the less brash tends to get swept under the rug.  

So if 1,000,000 liberals say "We don't want socialism" and one says "You're a filthy nazi if you don't want socialism," the bolder one gets 2million likes and the 1 million tweets doesn't even get to 1 million likes.  

 
jm192 said:
I think it's a pretty small percentage of the nation that posts about politics online.  And those people are often more polarized and/or steadfast in their beliefs.  

I also think that the internet has become a place where bold/hot takes get likes and retweets, etc.  And the less brash tends to get swept under the rug.  

So if 1,000,000 liberals say "We don't want socialism" and one says "You're a filthy nazi if you don't want socialism," the bolder one gets 2million likes and the 1 million tweets doesn't even get to 1 million likes.  
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I’m on some gambling boards and the level of political talk compared to everything else is much higher than here.  You’re right about the internet and our voices.  More importantly, it gives the fringe from both sides a legitimate voice.  Looking at my FB, the level of political discussion is unbelievable.

 
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jm192 said:
I think it's a pretty small percentage of the nation that posts about politics online.  And those people are often more polarized and/or steadfast in their beliefs.  

I also think that the internet has become a place where bold/hot takes get likes and retweets, etc.  And the less brash tends to get swept under the rug.  

So if 1,000,000 liberals say "We don't want socialism" and one says "You're a filthy nazi if you don't want socialism," the bolder one gets 2million likes and the 1 million tweets doesn't even get to 1 million likes.  
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Or around here - a normal post that's on topic might get passed over, but if somebody posts that this place is far left it will get somebody fired up and two pages later.... 

 
What's funny is that everyone's pissed about the pork, but only one person prior to this post mentioned that now 17 MILLION people will no longer be eligible for the relief check.  FFS.

 
-jb- said:
What's funny is that everyone's pissed about the pork, but only one person prior to this post mentioned that now 17 MILLION people will no longer be eligible for the relief check.  FFS.
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If they keep delaying it, we'll have to pay the government $1400.

 
FairWarning said:
What i notice on most boards is the left drifts further left, and the right moves further right (if that makes sense).
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sure...and I would not deny that this happens.

But there is a difference between that...and claiming this board is far left.  Which is what I disagreed with and asked someone to back up.  And when asked...several continue to refuse to even bring any example of it here.

 
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jm192 said:
I'm not sure how we've gotten so far down the rabbit hole of "Is this board more left" in a thread about the COVID relief bill.  

I assume the post meant there's a constant growing percentage of Liberal posters--as opposed to the collective body is moving left ideologically.  

I actually think the majority of the posters on the board are very rational, reasonable liberals.  

I think a lot of times we talk past each other and just assume what someone believes and that perhaps lends to the idea that "we're moving towards socialism."
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Because a post was made that this place was far left.  A claim that has been made many times.  And each and every time, including this one...when asked, people making such a claim refuse to ever bring any specific way this place is far left.  Instead we get the usual back and forth and deflection...then personal comments.

 
sho nuff said:
sure...and I would not deny that this happens.

But there is a difference between that...and claiming this board is far left.  Which is what I disagreed with and asked someone to back up.  And when asked...several continue to refuse to even bring any example of it here.
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I haven't been on the political board here long enough to really notice more of one over another.  

 
Chris Hayes @chrislhayes

Coons and Carper are not getting enough attention on this vote. Safe seat Dem senators whose justifications for the ‘no’ vote are not procedural but substantive opposition to $15 an hour!

Tweet

 
timschochet said:
Yes. Please refer to the first page of this thread. 

But the “pork” argument doesn’t hold because several bills that Republicans passed during the Trump years had far more pork than this. (For example the ridiculous military spending Bill in which billions were thrown at antiquated weaponry and bases because certain congressmen and senators wanted to please their districts,) After 4 years of expanding the national debt to levels that no Democrat would have dared to suggest, the idea that Republicans are now, under President Biden, suddenly concerned about austerity is simply not going to fly. 
And it’s just dumb. They’re going to lose this, it’s going to cost them vital seats in 2022. It’s a stupid hill to die on. That’s why I asked the question in the OP. 
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Stealthycat said:
were those bills passed with pork spending labeled Covid relief ?

thoughts on this ?

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/feb/25/stimulus-check-1400-you-1400-week-federal-employee/
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FairWarning said:
Which leads to the skeptic in me - it must be vacation time or something.  
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Exactly, or they finally realize their pork packing has pushed them past the window when people needed it most and at this point we will have our vaccines before the check. Sadly your take is probably most likely correct.  

 
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GoBirds said:
Exactly, or they finally realize their pork packing has pushed them past the window when people needed it most and at this point we will have our vaccines before the check. Sadly your take is probably most likely correct.  
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Illinois jobless just lost their benefits, probably other states are in the same boat and need this funding.  It goes to the first rule of government (and life) - ALWAYS follow the money.

 
sho nuff said:
sure...and I would not deny that this happens.

But there is a difference between that...and claiming this board is far left.  Which is what I disagreed with and asked someone to back up.  And when asked...several continue to refuse to even bring any example of it here.
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 Don’t remember the timing nor exact stats but joe did a poll on this and board vastly comprised of left leaning individuals.  My recollection was around 75%.  Obviously this moves over time but I think we can at least agree left leaning posters far outweigh the right folks..

 
sho nuff said:
Because a post was made that this place was far left.  A claim that has been made many times.  And each and every time, including this one...when asked, people making such a claim refuse to ever bring any specific way this place is far left.  Instead we get the usual back and forth and deflection...then personal comments.
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stlrams said:
 Don’t remember the timing nor exact stats but joe did a poll on this and board vastly comprised of left leaning individuals.  My recollection was around 75%.  Obviously this moves over time but I think we can at least agree left leaning posters far outweigh the right folks..
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Most political polls on this board reveal the same thing.  why an argument on this is beyond me.

 
stlrams said:
 Don’t remember the timing nor exact stats but joe did a poll on this and board vastly comprised of left leaning individuals.  My recollection was around 75%.  Obviously this moves over time but I think we can at least agree left leaning posters far outweigh the right folks..
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shadrap said:
Most political polls on this board reveal the same thing.  why an argument on this is beyond me.
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stlrams said:
 Cause he argues the sky is blue sometimes.  
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Or I understand the difference between a poll showing people are left leaning...or left...and what "far left" means.

Do you all believe this place is far left...like pushing progressives as any sort of majority?

Again...if so, why is Bernie not the most popular person here?  Why were Biden and people like Amy K and Mayor Pete lauded as much by most?  Why were those of us on the "far left" liking people like Kasich?

 
stlrams said:
 Don’t remember the timing nor exact stats but joe did a poll on this and board vastly comprised of left leaning individuals.  My recollection was around 75%.  Obviously this moves over time but I think we can at least agree left leaning posters far outweigh the right folks..
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I think the semantic argument is not that this board leans left, it's the statements that this board is "far left" - which I take to mean that a lot of people hold positions that are on the extreme left of the spectrum.  That is what I don't see.  

 
sho nuff said:
Or I understand the difference between a poll showing people are left leaning...or left...and what "far left" means.

Do you all believe this place is far left...like pushing progressives as any sort of majority?

Again...if so, why is Bernie not the most popular person here?  Why were Biden and people like Amy K and Mayor Pete lauded as much by most?  Why were those of us on the "far left" liking people like Kasich?
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Fair argument but I would guess its far left to left mostly but it depends what subject matter we are discussing.  

 
stlrams said:
Fair argument but I would guess its far left to left mostly but it depends what subject matter we are discussing.  
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And I would ask in what way is it even far left at all?

There will be any number of topics that may lean progressive.  But on the whole...no, I think its much more moderate left than anything.  With several that people may think are far lefties are those who have recently been Republican voters til the past 10 or so years.

IMO...its also a matter of perspective as I think those holding on talking more from the GOP side here, have moved further right (and also a sign of the polarization of the times).  Taking harder stances on immigration, gun control, and so on.  Almost reactionary at times to the "woke" side where things get entrenched even further way from each other.

 
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KarmaPolice said:
I think the semantic argument is not that this board leans left, it's the statements that this board is "far left" - which I take to mean that a lot of people hold positions that are on the extreme left of the spectrum.  That is what I don't see.  
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See above to sho nuff.  I think it depends on the subject matter.  Not that polls are entirely accurate because people often are not honest about themselves but did it include a category for far left , left etc?  

 
sho nuff said:
And I would ask in what way is it even far left at all?

There will be any number of topics that may lean progressive.  But on the whole...no, I think its much more moderate left than anything.  With several that people may think are far lefties are those who have recently been Republican voters til the past 10 or so years.
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Sorry but don’t agree.  There are numerous subject matters where board is hard left - immigration, fiscal policy, support of far left groups like blm and antifa.  

 
stlrams said:
It must be nice to have a job for life and not even live in the state you represent.  He is what’s wrong with Washington....
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If I remember corretly he did in fact buy a house in Hartford, after not owning one for almost a year. This has been discussed here before, with some folks thinking it is OK to not live in the state so long as you represent them, while others disagreed and thought that they should spend as much time as possible in their home state.

DC and CT are quite expensive places to live. I get why it may be difficult to own places in both places

 
dawgtrails said:
If I remember corretly he did in fact buy a house in Hartford, after not owning one for almost a year. This has been discussed here before, with some folks thinking it is OK to not live in the state so long as you represent them, while others disagreed and thought that they should spend as much time as possible in their home state.

DC and CT are quite expensive places to live. I get why it may be difficult to own places in both places
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He did recently buy a house in ct but his kids will go to school in dc so it’s really only for appearance purposes.  His family over 45 minutes away from Hartford.  

 
stlrams said:
Sorry but don’t agree.  There are numerous subject matters where board is hard left - immigration, fiscal policy, support of far left groups like blm and antifa.  
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Immigration?  Few outside of tim would be far left here.

Fiscal policy?  Again, I don't believe this place is far left fiscally.

Support of Antifa?  Who in the worth supports them?  I think people support the notion of "black lives matter" and justice for people...but don't think many, if any are supportive of the extreme portions of that.  Not at all.

I think this is part of the problem...perceptions may be quite off.  Because it is hard to agree with any of what you posted here.

 
sho nuff said:
Immigration?  Few outside of tim would be far left here.

Fiscal policy?  Again, I don't believe this place is far left fiscally.

Support of Antifa?  Who in the worth supports them?  I think people support the notion of "black lives matter" and justice for people...but don't think many, if any are supportive of the extreme portions of that.  Not at all.

I think this is part of the problem...perceptions may be quite off.  Because it is hard to agree with any of what you posted here.
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Perceptions are spot on from my perspective as I can see the forest thru the trees just fine.  

 
stlrams said:
Perceptions are spot on from my perspective as I can see the forest thru the trees just fine.  
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Well...ok, I just highly disagree and doubt you could point to how anyone is actually supporting those things.

Id say fiscally this board even with a left lean overall...leans fiscally more conservative vs far left.

As I said, outside of Tim, Im not sure I would say anyone here is far left on immigration.  Thinking a path to citizenship is a good idea is not a far left idea.

And BLM and Antifa...I think you are just completely wrong on that one.  Ive seen zero support for Antifa on this board.  And BLM again, not sure anyone is supporting the most extreme parts of it which would be the only things that could be considered far left.

 
I changed the title to have an overall discussion. I think the Republicans have made a huge mistake not turning this into a bipartisan effort but that’s on them. This is a huge legislative accomplishment for Biden. 
It’s also, sadly, probably his last legislative accomplishment, at least for two years, unless he can somehow convince Manchin and Sinema to do away with the filibuster. The Republicans should go in with Biden on an infrastructure deal but I don’t expect they will. 
 

As it looks now, the Republicans are going to spend the next two years complaining about cancel culture, a stolen election, Latino immigrants, and a slippery slope towards communism, and then get shellacked for it in 2022. Hopefully after the loss they’ll reconsider this terrible strategy. 

 
sho nuff said:
Well...ok, I just highly disagree and doubt you could point to how anyone is actually supporting those things.

Id say fiscally this board even with a left lean overall...leans fiscally more conservative vs far left.

As I said, outside of Tim, Im not sure I would say anyone here is far left on immigration.  Thinking a path to citizenship is a good idea is not a far left idea.

And BLM and Antifa...I think you are just completely wrong on that one.  Ive seen zero support for Antifa on this board.  And BLM again, not sure anyone is supporting the most extreme parts of it which would be the only things that could be considered far left.
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Silence on issues is acceptance.  

 
timschochet said:
I changed the title to have an overall discussion. I think the Republicans have made a huge mistake not turning this into a bipartisan effort but that’s on them. This is a huge legislative accomplishment for Biden. 
It’s also, sadly, probably his last legislative accomplishment, at least for two years, unless he can somehow convince Manchin and Sinema to do away with the filibuster. The Republicans should go in with Biden on an infrastructure deal but I don’t expect they will. 
 

As it looks now, the Republicans are going to spend the next two years complaining about cancel culture, a stolen election, Latino immigrants, and a slippery slope towards communism, and then get shellacked for it in 2022. Hopefully after the loss they’ll reconsider this terrible strategy. 
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4 years of orange man bad.  I was kind of relieved when Trump was gone, and thought we'd see some talks on policy instead of tribalism.  Instead, it's February and here you are with "GOP bad."

Both sides are at fault here.  Cruz, McConnell, Etc. should probably aim to compromise more.  

But Cruz made the point--Biden talked up unity and bipartisianship--and instead the Dems want to pass everything with a 50/50 vote and by pushing budget reconciliation.  

You create this false dichotomy of "You either support covid relief or you don't" as if there's zero legit reasons to be concerned with the bill.  Mitt Romney was an American hero during both impeachments.  Such courage to do the right thing.  Now he's another bad actor in the Republican party.  

We get it, dude.  Republicans are evil.  You post how you think we need balance in government.  And then when the Republicans don't eat what they're spoon fed, you post these kinds of threads.  Should we have debate and compromise or not?

 
jm192 said:
4 years of orange man bad.  I was kind of relieved when Trump was gone, and thought we'd see some talks on policy instead of tribalism.  Instead, it's February and here you are with "GOP bad."

Both sides are at fault here.  Cruz, McConnell, Etc. should probably aim to compromise more.  

But Cruz made the point--Biden talked up unity and bipartisianship--and instead the Dems want to pass everything with a 50/50 vote and by pushing budget reconciliation.  

You create this false dichotomy of "You either support covid relief or you don't" as if there's zero legit reasons to be concerned with the bill.  Mitt Romney was an American hero during both impeachments.  Such courage to do the right thing.  Now he's another bad actor in the Republican party.  

We get it, dude.  Republicans are evil.  You post how you think we need balance in government.  And then when the Republicans don't eat what they're spoon fed, you post these kinds of threads.  Should we have debate and compromise or not?
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You DON’T get it. I don’t want the GOP to be bad and I certainly don’t think they’re evil. They’re making poor political decisions at the moment IMO. I wish they wouldn’t. 

 
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timschochet said:
You DON’T get it. I don’t want the GOP to be bad and I certainly don’t think they’re evil. They’re making poor political decisions at the moment IMO. I wish they wouldn’t. 
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LOL.

"I don't want them to be bad."  Implying that they just are.  

You're still painting it as "Do Republicans want Americans to get COVID relief or not?"  You reject any idea that there's more to it other than "Yes or no, should Americans get support."  

But sure, Tim.  I'm the one that doesn't get it.

 
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sho nuff said:
No...it really isn't.

And I disagree people have been silent about these issues either.
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If I don’t support something I voice my opinion.  If I’m silent then I’m generally accepting thus silence is acceptance.  So in your opinion , everyone on this board has come out and denounce blm, anifia etc? 

 
jm192 said:
LOL.

"I don't want them to be bad."  Implying that they just are.  

You're still painting it as "Do Republicans want Americans to get COVID relief or not?"  You reject any idea that there's more to it other than "Yes or no, should Americans get support."  

But sure, Tim.  I'm the one that doesn't get it.
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No I’m not painting it that way. I’m saying this will be perceived that way and it’s a bad political decision. IMO

 
sho nuff said:
This is a completely false assertion about me and complete BS to continue to get personal.  Please stop.
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No it's 100% accurate.  You run around asking disingenuous questions to posters that lean right but NEVER EVER EVER answer when those guys pose questions to you.   Completely true assertion that's not personal just a fact. 

 
Hate to say it but I agree with Tim here. When the dust settles the R message will be that they fought against pork and the D message will be that they fought for Covid relief. The D message wins imo. 

Yes there SHOULD be compromise but the "covid relief" isn't really about covid relief and a Dem "infrastructure" spending bill won't be about infrastructure. This is normal - the party in power never really wants compromise, they want their agenda.

 
timschochet said:
I changed the title to have an overall discussion. I think the Republicans have made a huge mistake not turning this into a bipartisan effort but that’s on them. This is a huge legislative accomplishment for Biden. 
It’s also, sadly, probably his last legislative accomplishment, at least for two years, unless he can somehow convince Manchin and Sinema to do away with the filibuster. The Republicans should go in with Biden on an infrastructure deal but I don’t expect they will. 
 

As it looks now, the Republicans are going to spend the next two years complaining about cancel culture, a stolen election, Latino immigrants, and a slippery slope towards communism, and then get shellacked for it in 2022. Hopefully after the loss they’ll reconsider this terrible strategy. 
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It worked for the GOP before when they did this to Obama :shrug:

 
stlrams said:
If I don’t support something I voice my opinion.  If I’m silent then I’m generally accepting thus silence is acceptance.  So in your opinion , everyone on this board has come out and denounce blm, anifia etc? 
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I don't recall ever saying everyone has.  I have seen plenty of conservatives on this board who have not come out against them.  I don't feel they accept them.  Same with the Proud Boys and not speaking out against what happened on Jan. 6th.

I think plenty of people avoid certain topics...not because they accept anything bad in them...but because they don't want to get bogged down in arguments.

But Id say any who have spoke in those topics have come out against antifa and i have not seen anyone supportive of any of the violence of either group.

 
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