The Cowboys are lousy drafters (1 Viewer)

[redman]

Terrible front office management and player evaluation right here. Among the worst in the league.

'94 Shante Carver

'95 Sherman Williams

'96 Kavika Pittman

'97 David LaFleur

'98 Greg Ellis

'99 Ebenezer Ekuban

'00 D'Wayne Goodrich

'01 Quincy Carter

 

[Texasmouth]

Could be why Dave Campo is currently unemployed.

Quincy Carter wasn't a first rounder by the way.....

 

[houndirish]

They seem to have gotten it right last year .... unfortunately.

 

[Ridgelake]

Um...Duh.

Why do you think Lacewell is "retired" and Tuna cleaned house?

 

[Texasmouth]

How about...

Roy Williams, Terrance Newman, Julius Jones (Who they got in the 2nd after trading their first rounder), Demarcus Ware, Marcus Spears

 

[redman]

Could be why Dave Campo is currently unemployed.

Quincy Carter wasn't a first rounder by the way.....

Yes, it was , and it was done to prove a point. The next time a Cowboy fan points out the dumb FA acquisitions that the Redskins have made in the past, make sure to remind them that the Redskins, like the Cowboys, have shown in more recent years that they are capable of changing things that they did poorly in the past.

 

[Texasmouth]

Yeah but you had to go back to 2001 for that.....5 years ago and even then, like all Redskin fans, you had your information wrong. Quincy Carter wasn't a first round pick. Goodrich wasn't a first round pick either.

 

[Bankerguy]

I know you are a Skins fan and we aren't supposed to like each other. Boy you make it easy though.

Come on you root for the SKINS. You are teasing us about drafting to build a team? The Cowboys do actually try to draft players.

While you guys trade away picks and go after average secondary players and give them record contracts.

There have been 2 obvious trips directed at the Cowboys.

Seriously, why the hate?

 

[redman]

Yeah but you had to go back to 2001 for that.....5 years ago and even then, like all Redskin fans, you had your information wrong. Quincy Carter wasn't a first round pick. Goodrich wasn't a first round pick either.

And that would be the point now, wouldn't it. I don't seem to recall Cowboys fans acknowleging good FA signings by the 'Skins, regardless of year, so don't lecture me about minor details such as rounds of draft, etc.

I haven't been bashing Cowboys drafting since around 2002-03. In fact, since then I believe they've been among the best drafters in the league, with last year's providing IMHO a bumper crop of young defensive talent. That's why I resent the crap about Redskins FA acquisitions.

 

[Texasmouth]

Yeah but you had to go back to 2001 for that.....5 years ago and even then, like all Redskin fans, you had your information wrong. Quincy Carter wasn't a first round pick. Goodrich wasn't a first round pick either.

And that would be the point now, wouldn't it. I don't seem to recall Cowboys fans acknowleging good FA signings by the 'Skins, regardless of year, so don't lecture me about minor details such as rounds of draft, etc.

I haven't been bashing Cowboys drafting since around 2002-03. In fact, since then I believe they've been among the best drafters in the league, with last year's providing IMHO a bumper crop of young defensive talent. That's why I resent the crap about Redskins FA acquisitions.

Who are all of these outstanding good value free agents the Redskins have signed?

 

[culdeus]

Yeah but you had to go back to 2001 for that.....5 years ago and even then, like all Redskin fans, you had your information wrong. Quincy Carter wasn't a first round pick. Goodrich wasn't a first round pick either.

And that would be the point now, wouldn't it. I don't seem to recall Cowboys fans acknowleging good FA signings by the 'Skins, regardless of year, so don't lecture me about minor details such as rounds of draft, etc.

I haven't been bashing Cowboys drafting since around 2002-03. In fact, since then I believe they've been among the best drafters in the league, with last year's providing IMHO a bumper crop of young defensive talent. That's why I resent the crap about Redskins FA acquisitions.

Who are all of these outstanding good value free agents the Redskins have signed?

 

[JohnnyU]

FYI, the Cowboys let a computer make their choices during the Landry years. I would be interested in seeing the code for that program. They were successful.

 

[Bankerguy]

Red,

I'll speak for myself on the Skins FA pickup's.

While all solid players in their own right. I just can't believe the amount of money you guys seem to overpay the market value of some players.

Archuleta-Big hitter, who seems to be an odd choice with you guys already having Taylor. Huge contract $$$$$$$$.

Lloyd-This was your best signing. He is a nice talent and underrated. Smallish is my only critism.

Randle El- Versatile, but here is my point about over paying. He is nice return guy and will catch 2-3 balls a game. You guys paid him mad money though. These reckless contracts are what holds your team back from being great imo. Again a small WR.

You have assembled the best coaching staff in the league hands down.

Your team is stout on D a will be right there fighting out with the Giants and Cowboys this year in the toughest division in the league.

 

[Big Score]

Your team is stout on D and will be right there fighting out with the Giants and Cowboys this year in the toughest division in the league.

Nah the Skins won't be fighting anyone for the Division. They'll take it in a cakewalk. The Giants & Cowboys will be fighting for 2nd.

Philly?

 

[Bankerguy]

Your team is stout on D and will be right there fighting out with the Giants and Cowboys this year in the toughest division in the league.

Nah the Skins won't be fighting anyone for the Division. They'll take it in a cakewalk. The Giants & Cowboys will be fighting for 2nd.

Philly?

Although, I know you guys swept us last year. I truly believe Dallas matches up very well against Washington. Again....jmo.

 

[redman]

Yeah but you had to go back to 2001 for that.....5 years ago and even then, like all Redskin fans, you had your information wrong. Quincy Carter wasn't a first round pick. Goodrich wasn't a first round pick either.

And that would be the point now, wouldn't it. I don't seem to recall Cowboys fans acknowleging good FA signings by the 'Skins, regardless of year, so don't lecture me about minor details such as rounds of draft, etc.

I haven't been bashing Cowboys drafting since around 2002-03. In fact, since then I believe they've been among the best drafters in the league, with last year's providing IMHO a bumper crop of young defensive talent. That's why I resent the crap about Redskins FA acquisitions.

Who are all of these outstanding good value free agents the Redskins have signed?

Since 2004 (when Gibbs' regime came in) -Good FA signings:

Mark Brunell (signed after trade)

Santana Moss (signed after trade)

Clinton Portis (signed after trade)

Shawn Springs

Cornelius Griffin

Marcus Washington

Ryan Clark

Phillip Daniels

Casey Rabach

Walt Harris

Mike Sellars

Pierson Priolieu

Nic Clemons

Joe Salave'a

Mediocre/Poor FA signings:

David Patten

Injured FA's:

Mike Barrow

Going forward, as we have no idea how they'll pan out:

Antwaan Randle El

Andre Carter

Adam Archuleta

Christian Fauria

Not listed are myriad backups who were signed for depth at the veteran minimum.

I forgive you for your ignorance.

 

[Banger]

FYI, the Cowboys let a computer make their choices during the Landry years. I would be interested in seeing the code for that program. They were successful.

early VBD.

 

[Bankerguy]

FYI, the Cowboys let a computer make their choices during the Landry years.  I would be interested in seeing the code for that program.  They were successful.

early VBD.

 

[redman]

Red,

I'll speak for myself on the Skins FA pickup's.

While all solid players in their own right. I just can't believe the amount of money you guys seem to overpay the market value of some players.

And as I've pointed out, who cares? If the team is not impaired by the salary cap - and we know they're not because they do this every year - then how exactly is this criticism valid? That criticism comes IMHO from other teams that are more limited (they would tell you "disciplined") in their approach to FA because they don't have the cash on hand to pay these guys up front that the very profitable 'Skins do (Dallas has the cash in this regard too).

Perfect example is Chicago this year - the Bears didn't even get a chance to meet with either Archuleta or Randle El, who they reportedly were interested in signing, because the 'Skins targeted and hustled after those guys and signed them before any meeting could happen. So what do we hear out of Chicago but more eye-rolling over those "free-spending Redskins".

The point in this thread is not to bash Dallas. That was just my way of provoking the responses from Dallas fans that I knew would come in defense of their team in precisely the way I predicted. Instead, I'm trying to show that the old stereotypes about Dan Snyder and the 'Skins recklessly throwing money at washed up veteran FA's who won't contribute on the field are long out of date now. One look at the ages of the guys acquired this year versus 6 years ago is all you need to tell you that.

 

[Bankerguy]

Red,

I'll speak for myself on the Skins FA pickup's.

While all solid players in their own right.  I just can't believe the amount of money you guys seem to overpay the market value of some players.

And as I've pointed out, who cares? If the team is not impaired by the salary cap - and we know they're not because they do this every year - then how exactly is this criticism valid? That criticism comes IMHO from other teams that are more limited (they would tell you "disciplined") in their approach to FA because they don't have the cash on hand to pay these guys up front that the very profitable 'Skins do (Dallas has the cash in this regard too).

Perfect example is Chicago this year - the Bears didn't even get a chance to meet with either Archuleta or Randle El, who they reportedly were interested in signing, because the 'Skins targeted and hustled after those guys and signed them before any meeting could happen. So what do we hear out of Chicago but more eye-rolling over those "free-spending Redskins".

The point in this thread is not to bash Dallas. That was just my way of provoking the responses from Dallas fans that I knew would come in defense of their team in precisely the way I predicted. Instead, I'm trying to show that the old stereotypes about Dan Snyder and the 'Skins recklessly throwing money at washed up veteran FA's who won't contribute on the field are long out of date now. One look at the ages of the guys acquired this year versus 6 years ago is all you need to tell you that.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you could be more responsible with your spendings, combimed with your teams mastery of the cap. You who could afford even more players. The persecption of other fans, I believe, is that you guys spend without thinking.While that statement is not 100% true, you yourself have to admit some of the recent moves this year and in previous years have been

btw..... at your Sig....I just saw it.

 

[dgreen]

Yeah but you had to go back to 2001 for that.....5 years ago and even then, like all Redskin fans, you had your information wrong. Quincy Carter wasn't a first round pick. Goodrich wasn't a first round pick either.

And that would be the point now, wouldn't it. I don't seem to recall Cowboys fans acknowleging good FA signings by the 'Skins, regardless of year, so don't lecture me about minor details such as rounds of draft, etc.

I haven't been bashing Cowboys drafting since around 2002-03. In fact, since then I believe they've been among the best drafters in the league, with last year's providing IMHO a bumper crop of young defensive talent. That's why I resent the crap about Redskins FA acquisitions.

Who are all of these outstanding good value free agents the Redskins have signed?

Since 2004 (when Gibbs' regime came in) -Good FA signings:

Mark Brunell (signed after trade)

Santana Moss (signed after trade)

Clinton Portis (signed after trade)

Shawn Springs

Cornelius Griffin

Marcus Washington

Ryan Clark

Phillip Daniels

Casey Rabach

Walt Harris

Mike Sellars

Pierson Priolieu

Nic Clemons

Joe Salave'a

Mediocre/Poor FA signings:

David Patten

Injured FA's:

Mike Barrow

Going forward, as we have no idea how they'll pan out:

Antwaan Randle El

Andre Carter

Adam Archuleta

Christian Fauria

Not listed are myriad backups who were signed for depth at the veteran minimum.

I forgive you for your ignorance.

 

[Ridgelake]

Terrible front office management and player evaluation right here. Among the worst in the league.

'94 Shante Carver

'95 Sherman Williams

'96 Kavika Pittman

'97 David LaFleur

'98 Greg Ellis

'99 Ebenezer Ekuban

'00 D'Wayne Goodrich

'01 Quincy Carter

You know, Redman, as horrible as this collection of talent was (outside of Ellis who is very good), I note that Dallas still beat the Redskins, what, 11 times in a row before last season? I'm not sure what that says about the Skins' talent evaluation if Dallas is so horrible and yet they still beat them so many times in a row....

 

[redman]

Red,

I'll speak for myself on the Skins FA pickup's.

While all solid players in their own right.  I just can't believe the amount of money you guys seem to overpay the market value of some players.

And as I've pointed out, who cares? If the team is not impaired by the salary cap - and we know they're not because they do this every year - then how exactly is this criticism valid? That criticism comes IMHO from other teams that are more limited (they would tell you "disciplined") in their approach to FA because they don't have the cash on hand to pay these guys up front that the very profitable 'Skins do (Dallas has the cash in this regard too).

Perfect example is Chicago this year - the Bears didn't even get a chance to meet with either Archuleta or Randle El, who they reportedly were interested in signing, because the 'Skins targeted and hustled after those guys and signed them before any meeting could happen. So what do we hear out of Chicago but more eye-rolling over those "free-spending Redskins".

The point in this thread is not to bash Dallas. That was just my way of provoking the responses from Dallas fans that I knew would come in defense of their team in precisely the way I predicted. Instead, I'm trying to show that the old stereotypes about Dan Snyder and the 'Skins recklessly throwing money at washed up veteran FA's who won't contribute on the field are long out of date now. One look at the ages of the guys acquired this year versus 6 years ago is all you need to tell you that.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you could be more responsible with your spendings, combimed with your teams mastery of the cap. You who could afford even more players. The persecption of other fans, I believe, is that you guys spend without thinking.While that statement is not 100% true, you yourself have to admit some of the recent moves this year and in previous years have been

btw..... at your Sig....I just saw it.

Again, look at the list of guys I've posted above with Gibbs, and you tell me whether the silly money (and yes, I agree it was silly money) thrown at Deion, Jeff George, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, and a cast of thousands pre-2001 is in any way relevant or reflective to the team's present operations. The other thing I'd point out is that the team has never lacked for talent overall. If you want to use Madden NFL terminology for a second, if you added up all of the players' talent points on the roster, they've not been seriously lacking during any of Snyder's tenure. Granted, they've had talent problems at individual positions, but every team has those issues in the FA era. I've said before that Snyder's 'Skins pre-Gibbs are in rare company when it comes to underperforming given the talent on the roster. I'd say they're comparable to the Saints during that same time in that regard and, until last season, the Seahawks.

There's only really been one, or maybe two exceptions to that, which would be 2001 and maybe 2002. In '01 they had to purge all of that old talent they'd signed the year before and that killed their ability to field a competitive team - Tony Banks was their QB . Notably, because Shotty is the best coach they had under Snyder until Gibbs returned, they still went 8-8 that year. 2002 was of course the year of the "cheap and available Gator" .

Snyder's admitted that he's learned some tough lessons. The point is that those lessons have been learned, and put to good use.

 

[houndirish]

Yeah but you had to go back to 2001 for that.....5 years ago and even then, like all Redskin fans, you had your information wrong. Quincy Carter wasn't a first round pick. Goodrich wasn't a first round pick either.

And that would be the point now, wouldn't it. I don't seem to recall Cowboys fans acknowleging good FA signings by the 'Skins, regardless of year, so don't lecture me about minor details such as rounds of draft, etc.

I haven't been bashing Cowboys drafting since around 2002-03. In fact, since then I believe they've been among the best drafters in the league, with last year's providing IMHO a bumper crop of young defensive talent. That's why I resent the crap about Redskins FA acquisitions.

Who are all of these outstanding good value free agents the Redskins have signed?

Since 2004 (when Gibbs' regime came in) -Good FA signings:

Mark Brunell (signed after trade)

Santana Moss (signed after trade)

Clinton Portis (signed after trade)

Shawn Springs

Cornelius Griffin

Marcus Washington

Ryan Clark

Phillip Daniels

Casey Rabach

Walt Harris

Mike Sellars

Pierson Priolieu

Nic Clemons

Joe Salave'a

Mediocre/Poor FA signings:

David Patten

Injured FA's:

Mike Barrow

Going forward, as we have no idea how they'll pan out:

Antwaan Randle El

Andre Carter

Adam Archuleta

Christian Fauria

Not listed are myriad backups who were signed for depth at the veteran minimum.

I forgive you for your ignorance.

As far as value for the money spent I'd rate Salav'ea the best signing the Skins have had in years. Marcus Washington is probably second. Shawn Springs has played better than expected. Besides that you can make a strong argument that several of the players you listed as good signings haven't performed even close to the size of the contract given to them.I understand that this entire post was only meant to piss off Cowboy fans but don't state "the point of this thread is not to bash the Cowboys" when you come up with the title "The Cowboys are lousy drafters". If you weren't going for a reaction what was your intent? I hate the Cowboys too but that's pretty skewed logic. And Ridgelake makes an excellent observation in that until a year ago, the Redskins game was an automatic win for Dallas. Given the Quincy Carter, Chad Hutchinson, Vinny Testaverde years, that's really saying something. I know it's been years since Skins fans could chirp at the Cowboys but at least try to live in the world of reality when creating your sage snippets of wisdom.

 

[Bankerguy]

Red,

I'll speak for myself on the Skins FA pickup's.

While all solid players in their own right.  I just can't believe the amount of money you guys seem to overpay the market value of some players.

And as I've pointed out, who cares? If the team is not impaired by the salary cap - and we know they're not because they do this every year - then how exactly is this criticism valid? That criticism comes IMHO from other teams that are more limited (they would tell you "disciplined") in their approach to FA because they don't have the cash on hand to pay these guys up front that the very profitable 'Skins do (Dallas has the cash in this regard too).

Perfect example is Chicago this year - the Bears didn't even get a chance to meet with either Archuleta or Randle El, who they reportedly were interested in signing, because the 'Skins targeted and hustled after those guys and signed them before any meeting could happen. So what do we hear out of Chicago but more eye-rolling over those "free-spending Redskins".

The point in this thread is not to bash Dallas. That was just my way of provoking the responses from Dallas fans that I knew would come in defense of their team in precisely the way I predicted. Instead, I'm trying to show that the old stereotypes about Dan Snyder and the 'Skins recklessly throwing money at washed up veteran FA's who won't contribute on the field are long out of date now. One look at the ages of the guys acquired this year versus 6 years ago is all you need to tell you that.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you could be more responsible with your spendings, combimed with your teams mastery of the cap. You who could afford even more players. The persecption of other fans, I believe, is that you guys spend without thinking.While that statement is not 100% true, you yourself have to admit some of the recent moves this year and in previous years have been

btw..... at your Sig....I just saw it.

Again, look at the list of guys I've posted above with Gibbs, and you tell me whether the silly money (and yes, I agree it was silly money) thrown at Deion, Jeff George, Bruce Smith, Mark Carrier, and a cast of thousands pre-2001 is in any way relevant or reflective to the team's present operations. The other thing I'd point out is that the team has never lacked for talent overall. If you want to use Madden NFL terminology for a second, if you added up all of the players' talent points on the roster, they've not been seriously lacking during any of Snyder's tenure. Granted, they've had talent problems at individual positions, but every team has those issues in the FA era. I've said before that Snyder's 'Skins pre-Gibbs are in rare company when it comes to underperforming given the talent on the roster. I'd say they're comparable to the Saints during that same time in that regard and, until last season, the Seahawks.

There's only really been one, or maybe two exceptions to that, which would be 2001 and maybe 2002. In '01 they had to purge all of that old talent they'd signed the year before and that killed their ability to field a competitive team - Tony Banks was their QB . Notably, because Shotty is the best coach they had under Snyder until Gibbs returned, they still went 8-8 that year. 2002 was of course the year of the "cheap and available Gator" .

Snyder's admitted that he's learned some tough lessons. The point is that those lessons have been learned, and put to good use.

I don't disagree with anything here.Again...for me.....

Achuleta--------Way too much money. Seems like an odd fit with Taylor. Both in the SS mold. Is Taylor really going to go to jail?

Randle El-------I just don't get it. It always seems like 1 or 2 guys coming from a Superbowl club hit a big payday in FA. Does he have talent??? Ya, you bet! However he is what he is.......a great KR who also can be a decent #3 WR.

Why pay him like a WR 1 or at least best of the WR2's???

Other than that...solid moves by the Skins.

This ultimately is started over a rivarly Cowboys/Redskins have. We bug you guys, you bug us. My only suggestion is to take what you read with a huge grain of salt when it comes from Dallas fans. Just as I don't put too much stock in what you guys think of the TO/Vandy signings and the impending doom of cancer and black clouds that will ultimately engulf all of Valley Ranch.

Most folks here post before thinking...we are guilty of it from time to time.

 

[culdeus]

Yeah but you had to go back to 2001 for that.....5 years ago and even then, like all Redskin fans, you had your information wrong. Quincy Carter wasn't a first round pick. Goodrich wasn't a first round pick either.

And that would be the point now, wouldn't it. I don't seem to recall Cowboys fans acknowleging good FA signings by the 'Skins, regardless of year, so don't lecture me about minor details such as rounds of draft, etc.

I haven't been bashing Cowboys drafting since around 2002-03. In fact, since then I believe they've been among the best drafters in the league, with last year's providing IMHO a bumper crop of young defensive talent. That's why I resent the crap about Redskins FA acquisitions.

Who are all of these outstanding good value free agents the Redskins have signed?

Since 2004 (when Gibbs' regime came in) -Good FA signings:

Mark Brunell (signed after trade)

Santana Moss (signed after trade)

Clinton Portis (signed after trade)

Shawn Springs

Cornelius Griffin

Marcus Washington

Ryan Clark

Phillip Daniels

Casey Rabach

Walt Harris

Mike Sellars

Pierson Priolieu

Nic Clemons

Joe Salave'a

Mediocre/Poor FA signings:

David Patten

Injured FA's:

Mike Barrow

Going forward, as we have no idea how they'll pan out:

Antwaan Randle El

Andre Carter

Adam Archuleta

Christian Fauria

Not listed are myriad backups who were signed for depth at the veteran minimum.

I forgive you for your ignorance.

I wasn't trying to be a richard about that. I just wanted someone to come up with a list.I'd probably say Springs for the money he got was pretty average. $10 in bonus and a $30mil total deal for a guy with 1 pick all last year is pretty meh. He's a solid cover corner, but that's alot to pay in this rules environment. I'd still put him in the top 10 at his spot, but that's alot of money out there.

I will say I'm usually never in favor of giving big contract's to CB's in any situation. It's much like giving a bunch of money to a 2B. You just can't get that value back so I'm not totally sure there would be anything the guy could/would do to impress me enough to call him a good signing.

Clark was probably another spare to fair signing. More of an extra LB rather than a saftey. And it looks like they let him go. No idea what sort of $$ they paid to get him. Probably not much. Based on that and his current contract it was probably a good sign.

Priolieu is just a body filling a jersey. Very average along with Clemons and Salivela (sic). Any of an number of guys could fill in for them and it would make no difference. Just naming free agent signings at some point doesn't make them good. Spares like those guys are signed by every team.

Mike Sellars didn't even play hardly at all last year. How is he a good signing? Walt Harris wasn't even a starter either. Why even bother listing him?

------------------------

Don't paint me as a Dallas homer flaming some Washington guy (if you can even catergorize it as a flame). It's just not the case. I'll probably get a SP alias pretty soon just to keep people from treating me as such in any NFCE threads. I'm as big a skeptic of Dallas as anyone. No amount of underachieving suprises me anymore.

 

[fatness]

While all solid players in their own right. I just can't believe the amount of money you guys seem to overpay the market value of some players.

Archuleta-Big hitter, who seems to be an odd choice with you guys already having Taylor. Huge contract $$$$$$$$.

Lloyd-This was your best signing. He is a nice talent and underrated. Smallish is my only critism.

Randle El- Versatile, but here is my point about over paying. He is nice return guy and will catch 2-3 balls a game. You guys paid him mad money though. These reckless contracts are what holds your team back from being great imo. Again a small WR.

You have assembled the best coaching staff in the league hands down.

Your team is stout on D a will be right there fighting out with the Giants and Cowboys this year in the toughest division in the league.

Letting the amount of money paid for a player affect one's opinion of the player would be rather silly, wouldn't it? While I'm not saying you're doing that, it's fairly obvious that many people are doing just that, wouldn't you say? At least when it comes to Redskin signings? Archuleta ---- Sean Taylor may go to jail. The idea of Omar Stoutmyer (sp?) replacing him is scary. Ryan Clark wanted a lot of money, more than the Redskins thought he was worth, so they signed Archuleta.

Lloyd ---- thought by many on this board to be an upcoming good WR, until the Redskins signed him. He'll keep more drives alive than did all Redskin #2 and #3 WR's last year.

Randle El ---- better than any Redskin #2 or #3 WR last year; better than any Redskin returner last year.

Andre Carter ---- the only thing their defense was lacking the last 2 years was a good pass rush from DE. He'll improve that considerably.

If they were the best players for the Redskins to acquire, price makes little difference. The Redskins know how to structure contracts to avoid cap hell, so what is the drawback?

Since 2004 (when Gibbs' regime came in) -

Good FA signings:

Mark Brunell (signed after trade)

Santana Moss (signed after trade)

Clinton Portis (signed after trade)

Shawn Springs

Cornelius Griffin

Marcus Washington

Ryan Clark

Phillip Daniels

Casey Rabach

Walt Harris

Mike Sellars

Pierson Priolieu

Nic Clemons

Joe Salave'a

Mediocre/Poor FA signings:

David Patten

Injured FA's:

Mike Barrow

Going forward, as we have no idea how they'll pan out:

Antwaan Randle El

Andre Carter

Adam Archuleta

Christian Fauria

Not listed are myriad backups who were signed for depth at the veteran minimum.

Reaching back and criticizing the Redskins for bad choices in the past on personnel is lame, when there's more recent history available that says they're making better choices.

 

[Bankerguy]

Letting the amount of money paid for a player affect one's opinion of the player would be rather silly, wouldn't it? While I'm not saying you're doing that, it's fairly obvious that many people are doing just that, wouldn't you say? At least when it comes to Redskin signings?

=============================================

Agreed, but for the sake of balance. It would be nice to hear Skin fans acknowledge that you are vastly over paying for the talent, whether you can afford it or not.

 

[redman]

No harm done, Bankerguy. You get the point I'm making and I'm not targeting you at all with this post.

Regarding Archuleta, of all the FA signings this year that's the one that I regard as the riskiest. As I've pointed out elsewhere, there's little difference between the skill set of Archuleta and Matt Bowen who they just released. Both are Strong Safeties who are relatively poor in pass coverage, have good footspeed and are good at shooting the gap on blitzes. They both even have injury histories. I have my doubts about that particular move.

 

[DevilsTrifecta]

heath shuler, michael westbrook and desmond howard were fantastic top-5 picks

 

[Bankerguy]

No harm done, Bankerguy. You get the point I'm making and I'm not targeting you at all with this post.

Regarding Archuleta, of all the FA signings this year that's the one that I regard as the riskiest. As I've pointed out elsewhere, there's little difference between the skill set of Archuleta and Matt Bowen who they just released. Both are Strong Safeties who are relatively poor in pass coverage, have good footspeed and are good at shooting the gap on blitzes. They both even have injury histories. I have my doubts about that particular move.

I am glad we are cool. Being a fan for me is a pasionate thing. So, I can respect someone else who feels the same way about their team. Even if that team is my arch rival. To me this is what makes being a "fan" fun. I like to talk some friendly smack and tout my team. I expect the same in return from guys like you.

If you explain why you feel a certain way, I am alright. It's the 1 line idiotic comments that send me through the roof.

 

[fatness]

Agreed, but for the sake of balance. It would be nice to hear Skin fans acknowledge that you are vastly over paying for the talent, whether you can afford it or not.

I agree that Washington is paying more for some players than other teams would. FA's usually sign for whomever pays the most, so I'm not sure if it's over paying, though (that's how Owens was signed by the Cowboys, for example). If they could get equivalent talent cheaper, then yes, it's overpaying. If it's just that they are willing to pay more than other teams are, or that they know how to structure contracts to get more money in a player's pocket (and less of a cap hit for doing so than other teams manage to do), is that really over paying? For the record, I think Lloyd and Carter are excellent signings; Randle El is at least "good" in that he improves their passing game and return game; Fauria not much different than Royal; Archuleta I'm not sure of and will have to see how he works out.

 

[dgreen]

I wasn't trying to be a richard about that. I just wanted someone to come up with a list.

Cool. Oddly enough, Gibbs is a much better talent evaluator than Dan Snyder and it's shown in their FA the last couple years.

I'd probably say Springs for the money he got was pretty average. $10 in bonus and a $30mil total deal for a guy with 1 pick all last year is pretty meh. He's a solid cover corner, but that's alot to pay in this rules environment. I'd still put him in the top 10 at his spot, but that's alot of money out there.I will say I'm usually never in favor of giving big contract's to CB's in any situation. It's much like giving a bunch of money to a 2B. You just can't get that value back so I'm not totally sure there would be anything the guy could/would do to impress me enough to call him a good signing.

One last year, but Springs had five picks and six sacks in 2004 when they had Smoot on the other side. This year, he usually had Walt Harris or rookie Carlos Rogers on the other side. He wasn't tested much. I think he has been a great signing. They signed him for much less than they would have had to sign Champ for. Yes, he's not as good as Champ, but they were able to get solid play from their CB1 for far less money.

Clark was probably another spare to fair signing. More of an extra LB rather than a saftey. And it looks like they let him go. No idea what sort of $$ they paid to get him. Probably not much. Based on that and his current contract it was probably a good sign.

Clark in no way is a LB. They signed him cheaply and let him go because he got a good offer from Pitt and they now have Arch. He was their starting SS for most of the last two years.

Priolieu is just a body filling a jersey. Very average along with Clemons and Salivela (sic). Any of an number of guys could fill in for them and it would make no difference. Just naming free agent signings at some point doesn't make them good. Spares like those guys are signed by every team.

I mostly agree. But, Salave'a has been strong. He's struggled when Griffin has been out and he's had to draw the attention, but he's solid when playing along side Griff.

Mike Sellars didn't even play hardly at all last year. How is he a good signing?

Sellers has played in all but one game the last two years. This year he had seven TD receptions and was a good goalline passing option. He actually played almost as much as Chris Cooley, but he's more of the blocking h-back and doesn't get as much press.

Walt Harris wasn't even a starter either. Why even bother listing him?

He started the season as the starter until Rogers was ready. Harris had his ups and downs. He made the fourth down stop @ Dallas the play after Sean Taylor stuck Crayton. That was a big play.

 

[Bankerguy]

Agreed, but for the sake of balance.  It would be nice to hear Skin fans acknowledge that you are vastly over paying for the talent, whether you can afford it or not.

I agree that Washington is paying more for some players than other teams would. FA's usually sign for whomever pays the most, so I'm not sure if it's over paying, though (that's how Owens was signed by the Cowboys, for example). If they could get equivalent talent cheaper, then yes, it's overpaying. If it's just that they are willing to pay more than other teams are, or that they know how to structure contracts to get more money in a player's pocket (and less of a cap hit for doing so than other teams manage to do), is that really over paying? For the record, I think Lloyd and Carter are excellent signings; Randle El is at least "good" in that he improves their passing game and return game; Fauria not much different than Royal; Archuleta I'm not sure of and will have to see how he works out.

See...when we just talk without getting personal, we actually agree about a lot of things.

 

[dgreen]

It's the 1 line idiotic comments that send me through the roof.

Tom Landry is overrated.

 

[Bankerguy]

It's the 1 line idiotic comments that send me through the roof.

Tom Landry is overrated.

Yeah, you are a prime example. Nice comment there in the AFC prediction thread.Can't like everyone I guess.

Fatness and Redman....get my respect.

 

[fatness]

See...when we just talk without getting personal, we actually agree about a lot of things.

Agreed. A worthy rival is something to value.

 

[dgreen]

It's the 1 line idiotic comments that send me through the roof.

Tom Landry is overrated.

Yeah, you are a prime example. Nice comment there in the AFC prediction thread.Can't like everyone I guess.

Fatness and Redman....get my respect.

Note to self: Bankerguy can't take a joke. A fairly obvious joke, IMO.Unless you're joking, too. If so, I take it back.

 

[Bankerguy]

It's the 1 line idiotic comments that send me through the roof.

Tom Landry is overrated.

Yeah, you are a prime example. Nice comment there in the AFC prediction thread.Can't like everyone I guess.

Fatness and Redman....get my respect.

Note to self: Bankerguy can't take a joke. A fairly obvious joke, IMO.Unless you're joking, too. If so, I take it back.

I know you are joking here. On other threads it's harder to tell. You just seem to have an agenda against Dallas, which I guess I understand. You never let up though.......you are just on my nerves right now I guess.I'll try to politely ignore you for a bit.

ps...What happened to the rest of the Cowboy fans????????????????

 

[Imedos]

ps...What happened to the rest of the Cowboy fans????????????????

they probably went away once they saw this thread degenerate into cowboy-redskin manlove.

 

[dgreen]

It's the 1 line idiotic comments that send me through the roof.

Tom Landry is overrated.

Yeah, you are a prime example. Nice comment there in the AFC prediction thread.Can't like everyone I guess.

Fatness and Redman....get my respect.

Note to self: Bankerguy can't take a joke. A fairly obvious joke, IMO.Unless you're joking, too. If so, I take it back.

I know you are joking here. On other threads it's harder to tell. You just seem to have an agenda against Dallas, which I guess I understand. You never let up though.......you are just on my nerves right now I guess.

Wow, I didn't realize I had such a rep. I'm usually at one extreme or the other: my posts are either completely serious or completely joking. I try to make my joking pretty obvious, but that does fail on occassion. In the FFA I said something once about beating up a kid or something completely whacky and someone thought I was serious. It's hard to get a good read sometimes in writing.

Agenda? Yeah, sometimes my agenda is to just make fun and joke. But, I'm not just some Cowboy basher. I hate them, but that doesn't mean I'm clouded to their success.

I'll try to politely ignore you for a bit.

Okay.

ps...What happened to the rest of the Cowboy fans????????????????

I think they're still busy talking about how the Boys dominated the Skins for 55 minutes last year on MNF.

 

[Bankerguy]

QUOTE

ps...What happened to the rest of the Cowboy fans????????????????

I think they're still busy talking about how the Boys dominated the Skins for 55 minutes last year on MNF.

Now that....was funny.

I think my work here is done.

 

[BigTex]

ps...What happened to the rest of the Cowboy fans????????????????

they probably went away once they saw this thread degenerate into cowboy-redskin manlove.

:X

 

[dgreen]

ps...What happened to the rest of the Cowboy fans????????????????

they probably went away once they saw this thread degenerate into cowboy-redskin manlove.

:X

The odd thing is that there is somewhat of an acceptance of eachother. Cowboys-Redskins games in DC are much more civil than with the Eagles or Giants. Most of the talking in the stands is good-natured. I'd even say a reasonable number of Cowboys fans in FedEx is encouraged. It makes the game a little more fun.

 

[Texasmouth]

I am still here, I am just tired of arguing with Redskins fans.

If I actually got a Redskins fan to agree with me I would be very disappointed.....the rivalry is one of the best things about football. I love to hate the Redskins.

 

[houndirish]

ps...What happened to the rest of the Cowboy fans????????????????

they probably went away once they saw this thread degenerate into cowboy-redskin manlove.

:X

The odd thing is that there is somewhat of an acceptance of eachother. Cowboys-Redskins games in DC are much more civil than with the Eagles or Giants. Most of the talking in the stands is good-natured. I'd even say a reasonable number of Cowboys fans in FedEx is encouraged. It makes the game a little more fun.

Completely disagree. I used to work in that stadium. The Cowboys- Skins game was a fan fight fest every year. I would've thought the Philly game would have the most brawls, given the fanbases reputation, but the Dallas game easily trumped them all.

 

[BigTex]

bankerguy is getting soft. But when the schedule comes out and training camp starts...............feel the wraft of bankerguy.

Edit to add: I believe there will be more NFCE talk than any other division on this board this year.

 

[DevilsTrifecta]

I am still here, I am just tired of arguing with Redskins fans.

If I actually got a Redskins fan to agree with me I would be very disappointed.....the rivalry is one of the best things about football. I love to hate the Redskins.

my old roommate is a skins fan (i won lots of bets for a while....the best being he had to wear an aikman jersey to work) and yesterday he was trying to tell me john riggins > emmitt smithcourse i'd be disappointed in him if he said otherwise

 

[redman]

Letting the amount of money paid for a player affect one's opinion of the player would be rather silly, wouldn't it? While I'm not saying you're doing that, it's fairly obvious that many people are doing just that, wouldn't you say? At least when it comes to Redskin signings?

=============================================

Agreed, but for the sake of balance. It would be nice to hear Skin fans acknowledge that you are vastly over paying for the talent, whether you can afford it or not.

What does "overpay" mean anyway if the team can afford it?

 

[redman]

Yeah but you had to go back to 2001 for that.....5 years ago and even then, like all Redskin fans, you had your information wrong. Quincy Carter wasn't a first round pick. Goodrich wasn't a first round pick either.

And that would be the point now, wouldn't it. I don't seem to recall Cowboys fans acknowleging good FA signings by the 'Skins, regardless of year, so don't lecture me about minor details such as rounds of draft, etc.

I haven't been bashing Cowboys drafting since around 2002-03. In fact, since then I believe they've been among the best drafters in the league, with last year's providing IMHO a bumper crop of young defensive talent. That's why I resent the crap about Redskins FA acquisitions.

Who are all of these outstanding good value free agents the Redskins have signed?

Since 2004 (when Gibbs' regime came in) -Good FA signings:

Mark Brunell (signed after trade)

Santana Moss (signed after trade)

Clinton Portis (signed after trade)

Shawn Springs

Cornelius Griffin

Marcus Washington

Ryan Clark

Phillip Daniels

Casey Rabach

Walt Harris

Mike Sellars

Pierson Priolieu

Nic Clemons

Joe Salave'a

Mediocre/Poor FA signings:

David Patten

Injured FA's:

Mike Barrow

Going forward, as we have no idea how they'll pan out:

Antwaan Randle El

Andre Carter

Adam Archuleta

Christian Fauria

Not listed are myriad backups who were signed for depth at the veteran minimum.

I forgive you for your ignorance.

I wasn't trying to be a richard about that. I just wanted someone to come up with a list.I'd probably say Springs for the money he got was pretty average. $10 in bonus and a $30mil total deal for a guy with 1 pick all last year is pretty meh. He's a solid cover corner, but that's alot to pay in this rules environment. I'd still put him in the top 10 at his spot, but that's alot of money out there.

I will say I'm usually never in favor of giving big contract's to CB's in any situation. It's much like giving a bunch of money to a 2B. You just can't get that value back so I'm not totally sure there would be anything the guy could/would do to impress me enough to call him a good signing.

Clark was probably another spare to fair signing. More of an extra LB rather than a saftey. And it looks like they let him go. No idea what sort of $$ they paid to get him. Probably not much. Based on that and his current contract it was probably a good sign.

Priolieu is just a body filling a jersey. Very average along with Clemons and Salivela (sic). Any of an number of guys could fill in for them and it would make no difference. Just naming free agent signings at some point doesn't make them good. Spares like those guys are signed by every team.

Mike Sellars didn't even play hardly at all last year. How is he a good signing? Walt Harris wasn't even a starter either. Why even bother listing him?

------------------------

Don't paint me as a Dallas homer flaming some Washington guy (if you can even catergorize it as a flame). It's just not the case. I'll probably get a SP alias pretty soon just to keep people from treating me as such in any NFCE threads. I'm as big a skeptic of Dallas as anyone. No amount of underachieving suprises me anymore.

FYI - my criteria for "good" FA signings is the amount of the playing time that they got. I'm not a Walt Harris fan, nor do I think Prioleau was a stud by any means. However, each of those guys was a significant contributor - especially Harris - and certainly filled the role they were acquired for.