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The Kicker - Why do we include them on rosters? (1 Viewer)

The real question is SHOULD a soccer player impact a football game. It bothers me that real football players leave blood,sweat,and tears for 99.9% of the game so some skinny soccer player can jog out there and decide the outcome.

I never seen Peyton Manning w/ blood or tears....I must have missed that part..

 
OK, kind of related here, but just a general question about kickers (kind of). I think it would be better for the game in general if they had the hash marks as wide as college football and make the kickers work a little more at angles, etc.

Why are the hashes closer together in the NFL than in college? I've never understood this and thought they should move them out to make a field goal a little more challenging, but didn't know if it would affect everything else. Can anyone help me on this?

 
FunkyPlutos said:
OK, kind of related here, but just a general question about kickers (kind of). I think it would be better for the game in general if they had the hash marks as wide as college football and make the kickers work a little more at angles, etc.Why are the hashes closer together in the NFL than in college? I've never understood this and thought they should move them out to make a field goal a little more challenging, but didn't know if it would affect everything else. Can anyone help me on this?
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I hate the college hash marks because they tend to jam the offense onto one side of the field and limit their ability to call plays. The hash marks most assuredly affect things other than kicking.
 
Godsbrother said:
prosopis said:
The real question is SHOULD a soccer player impact a football game. It bothers me that real football players leave blood,sweat,and tears for 99.9% of the game so some skinny soccer player can jog out there and decide the outcome.:martingramatica:
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Well the real football players could always score a TD and decide the game for themselves instead of relying on a skinny field goal kicker....
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The offensive line would like to have a word with you.
 
BigRed said:
Sandeman said:
Kickers in fantasy are lame. Little more than a function of the offense,
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Well if THAT'S all :ptts: PS "digit" is spelled with 2 "i's," FYI.
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Thanks for the correction. I used to be a spelling whiz but I've just grown accustomed to Word fixing my typing. Not a good habit.Anyway, I think you understand my point about the offense. The QB, RB and WRs do all the hard work and if they can put it in the endzone when on the opponent's end, in comes the kicker to grab a few points. The kicker had nothing to do with the offense's performance. I don't begrudge the kicker in the real game. I just think in fantasy that the kicker is lame. There's no strategy to drafting one required, they're never included in trade talks in your league, they get picked up for $1 in auctions. Just a total waste.
 
j3r3m3y said:
Godsbrother said:
prosopis said:
The real question is SHOULD a soccer player impact a football game. It bothers me that real football players leave blood,sweat,and tears for 99.9% of the game so some skinny soccer player can jog out there and decide the outcome.:martingramatica:
Click to expand...
Well the real football players could always score a TD and decide the game for themselves instead of relying on a skinny field goal kicker....
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The offensive line would like to have a word with you.
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They're a bunch of wimps -- me & Gramatica can handle 'em!
 
I'm trying to get rid of the kicker in my local league, but people are saying "every other league has a kicker, so we should too." I can't seem to get the point across that that isn't a valid reason for doing something and that they should present a reason for the kicker to be in our league (I've already gone over the general worthlessness of kickers in fantasy leagues). Any suggestions on how to get through to these flat-earthers?

 
North said:
Our league (20 years strong!) got rid of kickers last year because of the crap shoot you have every year with them.Drafting in fantasy takes research, but for the position of kicker you can pretty much pick a name out of a hat and have just as good of a chance of him ranking in the top 5 as someone who is SUPPOSE to finish there.2 years ago the guy who won my league waited until the last round to draft his kick, went down his list from a book reading off names and settled for the 1st player that wasn't already drafted. He picked Wilkins who finished 2nd in the league for kicker scoring with 141 points and it was TOTAL luck. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, we had been talking about getting rid of them for awhile and that's all it took.Last year went fine with no kicker, just added another flex position.
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why would this situation upset you.... ???people admit that they don't do much research because they are 'kcikers' and useless...and then they complain that kickers make the difference...most of FF is total luck, get over yourself... The kicker is an institution in FF IMO, i wouldn't change it...
 
Jeff Pasquino said:
Sandeman said:
Kickers in fantasy are lame. Little more than a function of the offense, often a crap-shoot and a fantasy-draft afterthought. Kickers take up valuable space in fantasy magazines, albeit the last section in every one, and the topic of least discussion in forums and among pals on draft day. It's time to get rid of the kicker.
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In related news:Doug Drinen :clap:Mike Herman :hot:
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:lmao: I missed this thread when it 1st came out or I would've gone the same angle....Would Herman be out of a job if there were no kickers ?He's probably got Sandeman on 'Ignore'
 
Bl Deep said:
North said:
Our league (20 years strong!) got rid of kickers last year because of the crap shoot you have every year with them.Drafting in fantasy takes research, but for the position of kicker you can pretty much pick a name out of a hat and have just as good of a chance of him ranking in the top 5 as someone who is SUPPOSE to finish there.2 years ago the guy who won my league waited until the last round to draft his kick, went down his list from a book reading off names and settled for the 1st player that wasn't already drafted. He picked Wilkins who finished 2nd in the league for kicker scoring with 141 points and it was TOTAL luck. That was the straw that broke the camel's back, we had been talking about getting rid of them for awhile and that's all it took.Last year went fine with no kicker, just added another flex position.
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why would this situation upset you.... ???people admit that they don't do much research because they are 'kcikers' and useless...and then they complain that kickers make the difference...most of FF is total luck, get over yourself... The kicker is an institution in FF IMO, i wouldn't change it...
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:clap: I'm laughing at all these "luck" guys. The very nature of the game is luck.
 
In support of the "kicker's don't mean much" argument...

By John Clayton

ESPN.com

New Miami Dolphins boss Bill Parcells continues to make changes on the roster, and got younger at kicker by releasing 32-year-old veteran Jay Feely.

Feely was coming off one of his best seasons, which made his release a surprise. He made 21 of 23 field goals last season, setting a team single-season record for field goal percentage, and was one of the few bright spots on last year's 1-15 team.

His release opens the door for rookie Dan Carpenter of Montana, a 6-2, 220-pounder who signed with the Dolphins as an undrafted free agent. Carpenter made field goals of 41 and 49 yards in Miami's 17-6 preseason loss to Tampa Bay on Saturday.

Feely is entering his eighth season, having spent his first four years with the Atlanta Falcons, followed by two with the New York Giants.

His accuracy has improved in each of the past three seasons. He made 83.3 percent of his field goals for the Giants in 2005; 85.2 percent for the Giants in 2006; and 91.3 for the Dolphins last year.

Feely has been sidelined with a groin strain that forced him to sit out practice last week and miss the preseason opener. He signed a three-year, $4.6 million contract to join the Dolphins in 2007. As an 80.8 percent career kicker, Feely shouldn't have too much trouble finding a new job.

 
What next a thread where someone insists we should get rid of the tight end?

I personally love taking a top kicker when other teams are drafting their 7th RB and 6th WR. I have always noticed the teams that complain the most about the rosters are the ones that use the last three rounds to get their K, TE, and Def. Maybe it is related.

 
I've won as many games from my kicker going off as I've lost from my opponent's going off.

That said, it is pretty ridiculous that kickers are included in fantasy football. Whether you draft your kicker in the 1st round or the 20th round doesn't really matter, because they're such a crapshoot. It's just pure, unadulterated luck in a game that already has plenty of luck involved.

There's nothing more frustrating than your opponent's kicker going off for 5 FGs and 2 PATs because that's who your opponent picked to insert into their kicker spot by flipping a coin this week. Likewise, any time I win because my kicker kicked 5 FGs I feel like I should give the win to my opponent (of course I never do :lmao: ).

We may as well pick one game each week and have everyone pick the coin toss and give them 20 bonus pts if they get it right.

 
Kickers are part of real football, so in fantasy we tend to have them.

How much of a factor they are is up to how you decide to do your leagues scoring.

If you want less, move the decimal to the left one.

 
I trade for better kickers throughout the season and I also play matchups...there is an actually strategy there but if you're too lazy to recognize that then more power to you and your league if you want to get rid of it.

We give negative points for missed FG's and XP's. No bonus for distance.

 
Personally, I hate it when my opponents' no name wr comes out of nowhere and has a career game that week to beat me.

I haven't figured out how to ban those guys yet...

 
I gave up on trying to replace them. There are always people that will be completely against it. My solution is to completely water down their points. In my leagues I only give .5 per extra point and 2pts for all FGs.

 
fsufan said:
taking a kicker before the last round is a joke
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Agreed. And even then, it's a joke. Most years, guys in our league don't even draft a kicker. They draft an extra WR, RB or TE and then decide who to drop the night before they have to make a call and pick up the "best" K on the board.
 
The Great Snook said:
What next a thread where someone insists we should get rid of the tight end?I personally love taking a top kicker when other teams are drafting their 7th RB and 6th WR. I have always noticed the teams that complain the most about the rosters are the ones that use the last three rounds to get their K, TE, and Def. Maybe it is related.
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If you play in a league where the guys take TEs and DEs in the last or next-to-last rounds, please let me know next time you have a spot available. I'll gladly pay the $5 entry fee.
 
Depending on the rules, if allowed, many times I will skip drafting a kicker and instead draft a deep sleeper at RB and WR. Especially if there is a long time between the draft and the start of the season.

If the rules allow you to pickup a free agent before the season starts you can check out how your deep sleepers do in preseason (maybe injuries or non performance from the starter moves them into a starting role=opporunity) and then drop the sleeper you like least and add a kicker for the start of the season. The difference between your added Kicker (K20) and the one you could have had (K10) is so small that it is worth the extra time to evaluate sleepers.

 
Sandeman said:
fsufan said:
taking a kicker before the last round is a joke
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Agreed. And even then, it's a joke. Most years, guys in our league don't even draft a kicker. They draft an extra WR, RB or TE and then decide who to drop the night before they have to make a call and pick up the "best" K on the board.
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Not if 23 kickers were taken before the last round. It all depends on the draft. Last season I tried it your way refusing to take a kicker and it hurt.Would you take your 6th RB or WR (a guy you know you'll cut) before a starting kicker?This whole thread is lame unless everyone in your league is just like you.
 
In one of my leagues, we eliminated the kicker and are very pleased that our draft preparation time is greatly reduced. We've also eliminated the TE because there are only a handful of good ones. We've nixed the QB as well; the injury factor is just too great and no one liked the idea of "Team QB". We had to drop our flex; our scoring system is RB friendly and it gave a couple teams too much of a competitive advantage. The most recent change was to eliminate RB2, WR2 and WR3. Although initially against the idea, I must admit that it has simplified management of bye weeks and injuries. We also don't get burned by some "no name" receiver coming out of the wood work with a big week.

With starter requirements simplified to one RB and one WR, we quickly realized the folly in large rosters so we've cut down to four players. Needless to say, the draft goes very quickly an no one could be happier. A good draft is critical to success in this format and to eliminate any "luck" we're reduced the annual waiver wire moves to two per franchise.

 
took kickers out of my leagues about 4 or 5 years ago. happier ever since. no one had any real complaints.

kickers add another "luck" factor into the game. i never understood it either, because a good kicker in fantasy on a team that isn't scoring tds. which isn't good in the NFL.

 
DropKick said:
In one of my leagues, we eliminated the kicker and are very pleased that our draft preparation time is greatly reduced. We've also eliminated the TE because there are only a handful of good ones. We've nixed the QB as well; the injury factor is just too great and no one liked the idea of "Team QB". We had to drop our flex; our scoring system is RB friendly and it gave a couple teams too much of a competitive advantage. The most recent change was to eliminate RB2, WR2 and WR3. Although initially against the idea, I must admit that it has simplified management of bye weeks and injuries. We also don't get burned by some "no name" receiver coming out of the wood work with a big week.With starter requirements simplified to one RB and one WR, we quickly realized the folly in large rosters so we've cut down to four players. Needless to say, the draft goes very quickly an no one could be happier. A good draft is critical to success in this format and to eliminate any "luck" we're reduced the annual waiver wire moves to two per franchise.
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:thumbup:
 
fsufan said:
DropKick said:
fsufan said:
Captain Spaulding said:
I fully support any league that has eliminated the kicker. A very useless and boring part of FF. Get it out of there. Its all luck anyway.
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i have always wanted to eliminate the kicker position and make that spot a flex- so you could start a RB,WR,TE or K
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Why do you have to eliminate a position to add one?
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to give owners more options
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Hard to disagree with that logic. :)
 
identikit said:
fsufan said:
DropKick said:
fsufan said:
Captain Spaulding said:
I fully support any league that has eliminated the kicker. A very useless and boring part of FF. Get it out of there. Its all luck anyway.
Click to expand...
i have always wanted to eliminate the kicker position and make that spot a flex- so you could start a RB,WR,TE or K
Click to expand...
Why do you have to eliminate a position to add one?
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to give owners more options
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Hard to disagree with that logic. :loco:
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would you rather be forced to start a kicker or have an option to start a flex(RB,WR,TE,K). do not see the point in just eliminating a position.
 
i have always wanted to eliminate the kicker position and make that spot a flex- so you could start a RB,WR,TE or K

Why do you have to eliminate a position to add one?

to give owners more options

Hard to disagree with that logic.

:lmao:

would you rather be forced to start a kicker or have an option to start a flex(RB,WR,TE,K). do not see the point in just eliminating a position.

You could keep the kicker AND add a flex?

:thumbup:

 
identikit said:
DropKick said:
In one of my leagues, we eliminated the kicker and are very pleased that our draft preparation time is greatly reduced. We've also eliminated the TE because there are only a handful of good ones. We've nixed the QB as well; the injury factor is just too great and no one liked the idea of "Team QB". We had to drop our flex; our scoring system is RB friendly and it gave a couple teams too much of a competitive advantage. The most recent change was to eliminate RB2, WR2 and WR3. Although initially against the idea, I must admit that it has simplified management of bye weeks and injuries. We also don't get burned by some "no name" receiver coming out of the wood work with a big week.With starter requirements simplified to one RB and one WR, we quickly realized the folly in large rosters so we've cut down to four players. Needless to say, the draft goes very quickly an no one could be happier. A good draft is critical to success in this format and to eliminate any "luck" we're reduced the annual waiver wire moves to two per franchise.
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:lol:
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:) :lmao:
 
Special Teams are extremely important in game that, at it's core, is a battle of field position. Show them respect! I hate how un-predictable K scoring is, but I'll fight to the death to keep them in the the game of FF. Robbie Gould is pretty consistent, imo, and is a good last round pick now that Chicago should have a solid offense.

Laugh at them all you want, but kicking a 45 yard field goal with the game on the line is about as pressure packed as it hets in the NFL. The best kickers have stones of steel...

 
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Slam said:
Depending on the rules, if allowed, many times I will skip drafting a kicker and instead draft a deep sleeper at RB and WR. Especially if there is a long time between the draft and the start of the season.

If the rules allow you to pickup a free agent before the season starts you can check out how your deep sleepers do in preseason (maybe injuries or non performance from the starter moves them into a starting role=opporunity) and then drop the sleeper you like least and add a kicker for the start of the season. The difference between your added Kicker (K20) and the one you could have had (K10) is so small that it is worth the extra time to evaluate sleepers.
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DING DING DING!!!!!!!http://www.fftoday.com/articles/spellman/09_skill_luck.htm

That link is an article about how luck plays out vs skill in fantasy football. There was a better one here on FBG but I can't seem to find the link. The basic conclusion in both is that:

Making the playoffs and contending is skill. Winning a championship from there is luck based. Dynasty, long term, is even more about skill contending year in and year out.

Here is some evidence as to why kickers are stupid...pardon me, luck based and unskilled:

Thye are luck. I don't have much time right now, so I will go with anecdotal evidence. I don't draft kickers. I don't draft a defense. I draft only 1 TE.

Each week, I have my little brother pick the name he likes most from a list of all available kickers and I go with that. I had a large win streak due to Kris Brown's 5 50+ yarders then Bironas making 8 then Brown with another 4 long ones. And I started based on an 8 year old's random pick of a list of names. If that doesn't convince you that kickers are luck, what will? We already have been over that the point differential over the season is minute, barely noticeable, and not statistically significant. Why continue to include them?

 
Instinctive said:
We already have been over that the point differential over the season is minute, barely noticeable, and not statistically significant. Why continue to include them?
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You left off that there's data that suggests a K's FG percentage in a given year is in no small part random. And that few Ks finish at the top in consecutive years.
 
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BoulderBob said:
Special Teams are extremely important in game that, at it's core, is a battle of field position. Show them respect! I hate how un-predictable K scoring is, but I'll fight to the death to keep them in the the game of FF. Robbie Gould is pretty consistent, imo, and is a good last round pick now that Chicago should have a solid offense.

Laugh at them all you want, but kicking a 45 yard field goal with the game on the line is about as pressure packed as it hets in the NFL. The best kickers have stones of steel...
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:reche: :thumbup: I'm not sure even Mike Herman would go along with this statement :) -QG

 
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