What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (5 Viewers)

Well, after 18 years in a law firm, I'm making a change and heading in house. I'm really excited about the opportunity, but a little nervous too. Won't miss billing my time though. Not one bit. 

 
bigbottom said:
Well, after 18 years in a law firm, I'm making a change and heading in house. I'm really excited about the opportunity, but a little nervous too. Won't miss billing my time though. Not one bit. 
Click to expand...
:excited:  Very excited for you!  I could never go back to firm life after being in-house - so much more rewarding in my opinion.  Not billing is fantastic, but there are so many even better things about it.  I'd love to hear more about where you're going - I'll check your FB to see if you have posted anything, but please send me a PM if you have a chance and let me know.

 
krista4 said:
:excited:  Very excited for you!  I could never go back to firm life after being in-house - so much more rewarding in my opinion.  Not billing is fantastic, but there are so many even better things about it.  I'd love to hear more about where you're going - I'll check your FB to see if you have posted anything, but please send me a PM if you have a chance and let me know.
Click to expand...
Thank you for the kind words!  PM sent.  By the way, not public yet, so no FB announcements or comments.

 
Question for the Lawyerguys:

We recently had an attorney do a small job for us reviewing a contract for new work that was relatively small and focused in nature.  It involved a couple phone calls, a couple emails sending over contract to review, and that's it.  The total billed for the job was 2.3 hours at $390/hr and seemed appropriate.

But, when I looked closer, the phone calls billed seemed longer.  There were two lines, each billed at 0.3 hrs for phone calls but when I checked my call log through the cell phone company, one call was only 11 minutes and the other was only 8 minutes.  At a total of 19 minutes, that's about half of the 0.6 hrs we were charged for phone calls.  Not a huge deal, but at $390/hr, that's an extra $100, which is more than 10% of the total bill.

Worth bringing up when splitting hairs over 0.3 hrs?  If this was a guy I've worked with before or would work with again, I wouldn't, but this was a one-time specialized issue and I feel like how it was billed is a little disingenuous.  I'll let you guys tell me how much I'm missing here.

 
bigbottom said:
Well, after 18 years in a law firm, I'm making a change and heading in house. I'm really excited about the opportunity, but a little nervous too. Won't miss billing my time though. Not one bit. 
Click to expand...
Nice.  Make sure to tell us about it at the other board so we can pretend we can keep it going an extra week.

 
bigbottom said:
Well, after 18 years in a law firm, I'm making a change and heading in house. I'm really excited about the opportunity, but a little nervous too. Won't miss billing my time though. Not one bit. 
Click to expand...
Congratulations.  Somebody is getting a great lawyer and counselor here.

 
gianmarco said:
Question for the Lawyerguys:

We recently had an attorney do a small job for us reviewing a contract for new work that was relatively small and focused in nature.  It involved a couple phone calls, a couple emails sending over contract to review, and that's it.  The total billed for the job was 2.3 hours at $390/hr and seemed appropriate.

But, when I looked closer, the phone calls billed seemed longer.  There were two lines, each billed at 0.3 hrs for phone calls but when I checked my call log through the cell phone company, one call was only 11 minutes and the other was only 8 minutes.  At a total of 19 minutes, that's about half of the 0.6 hrs we were charged for phone calls.  Not a huge deal, but at $390/hr, that's an extra $100, which is more than 10% of the total bill.

Worth bringing up when splitting hairs over 0.3 hrs?  If this was a guy I've worked with before or would work with again, I wouldn't, but this was a one-time specialized issue and I feel like how it was billed is a little disingenuous.  I'll let you guys tell me how much I'm missing here.
Click to expand...
Each phone call is billed separately (and rounded up--never down--to next 6 minute increment), so that is 0.2 hours for each.  If he included time dialing on the 11 minute call, that could push to 0.3.  If he spent a few minutes reviewing the file before calling or making notes thereafter, that could also be added to the time.  Not sure if he accounted for that separately though.

 
Don Quixote said:
Each phone call is billed separately (and rounded up--never down--to next 6 minute increment), so that is 0.2 hours for each.  If he included time dialing on the 11 minute call, that could push to 0.3.  If he spent a few minutes reviewing the file before calling or making notes thereafter, that could also be added to the time.  Not sure if he accounted for that separately though.
Click to expand...
That makes sense and I can see each being 0.2 hrs each (factoring in 1 minute to dial).  That's still 0.2 hrs extra, though, (0.1 on each call) or $80.  I know it's small, but ####, $80 is $80.

The review and all of that was in the major line item of 1.7 hrs for the work he did.

I hate lawyers (except you guys, of course).

 
Last edited by a moderator:
gianmarco said:
That makes sense and I can see each being 0.2 hrs each (factoring in 1 minute to dial).  That's still 0.2 hrs extra, though, (0.1 on each call) or $80.  I know it's small, but ####, $80 is $80.

The review and all of that was in the major line item of 1.7 hrs for the work he did.

I hate lawyers (except you guys, of course).
Click to expand...
If it bugs, bring it up and ask for it back.  This might shock you, but not all lawyers are particularly fastidious about tracking their time. 

 
Zow said:
i either saved a man's life today or kept a pedophile on the streets.  yay lawyering 
Click to expand...
I missed this last week.

Representing pedophiles and child pornographers has been weighing on me much more heavily lately than it used to.  For most crimes and clients there is at least some recognition by the client that they did something wrong.  The drug dealers know they aren't supposed to be dealing drugs.  The swindlers (when they finally admit what they did) know that it's stealing.  Lately, though, I've run into a string of diddler-types that just try to justify their acts and thoughts in a way that is downright disturbing.  It makes it so hard to discuss the case and give the guy advice when the guy simply thinks his actions are justified, and normal, and should be legal.

The only thing close to this is when I represent marijuana growers, who universally believe that marijuana is healthy and should be legal.  But for these guys I at least generally agree with them and they can also (usual) admit that the law is against them.

 
randall146 said:
I missed this last week.

Representing pedophiles and child pornographers has been weighing on me much more heavily lately than it used to.  For most crimes and clients there is at least some recognition by the client that they did something wrong.  The drug dealers know they aren't supposed to be dealing drugs.  The swindlers (when they finally admit what they did) know that it's stealing.  Lately, though, I've run into a string of diddler-types that just try to justify their acts and thoughts in a way that is downright disturbing.  It makes it so hard to discuss the case and give the guy advice when the guy simply thinks his actions are justified, and normal, and should be legal.

The only thing close to this is when I represent marijuana growers, who universally believe that marijuana is healthy and should be legal.  But for these guys I at least generally agree with them and they can also (usual) admit that the law is against them.
Click to expand...
I agree with you here (and would add that domestic abusers generally try to justify as well).  

But what make this trial/client unique/tough was because he wasn't justifying anything.  He's maintained innocence since day one.  This wasn't the more common case where you may have real chance at a not guilty verdict because a confession was coerced, a victim is recanting, there's no physical evidence, etc. - but the client has also made those strange, indignant statements leading one to strongly doubt his innocence.  In this case, there's a very strong possibility that my client literally was innocent and wrongfully accused.  But he also may have done it.  

 
gianmarco said:
That makes sense and I can see each being 0.2 hrs each (factoring in 1 minute to dial).  That's still 0.2 hrs extra, though, (0.1 on each call) or $80.  I know it's small, but ####, $80 is $80.

The review and all of that was in the major line item of 1.7 hrs for the work he did.

I hate lawyers (except you guys, of course).
Click to expand...
Generally, I'll round up a bit and the "phone call" itemization also includes reviewing my last case note or two or formulating my thoughts on the case and having a plan for the phone call.  I'll also probably choose to not bill for some small things along the way so I think, in the end, even if I estimate up on one or two six minute increments because in the end it evens out.  

Is it possible the attorney slightly over billed? Sure.  And if you think he did, ask him about it (although understand that he'll probably be slightly annoyed and won't do you any favors in the future - which apparently doesn't apply here anyway)

 
Congrats, Woz. :thumbup:  ..... maybe.

this thread is like a boring version of law and order, minus the chases or recognizable actors always being the culprit... but it's still a fun read. if the other architects and I were to start an architect thread- good lord would it suck.

 
 Question about  divorce: 

I know the name of the attorney my wife's sister used in her divorce. I know for a fact my wife would 100% use this guy, Can I go to him for a free consult and get some information about my own divorce as well as protect myself from him in the future? How does that work?



You so very much in advance


 
Yes, you could potentially conflict him out if you divulged information to him.  Kind of a crappy thing to do, and not every lawyer is going to automatically see it as a conflict, but the codes of Professional Responsibility are clear that pre-representation exchanges of information can create a conflict. 

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Yes, you could potentially conflict him out if you divulged information to him.  Kind of a crappy thing to do, and not every lawyer is going to automatically see it as a conflict, but the codes of Professional Responsibility are clear that pre-representation exchanges of information can create a conflict. 
Click to expand...
Why is it a crappy thing to do? Hes the guy who's going to try and destroy me down the road. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
Why is it a crappy thing to do? Hes the guy who's going to try and destroy me down the road. 
Click to expand...
Because it abuses the ethical obligations of lawyers for no reason other than to hamstring your current wife in the event of legal action down the road.  And if it comes out that you did this specifically to conflict that attorney out of your case, the trial judge will not look favorably on you.

 
I thought that was standard operating procedure. 

Im still not sure how it's bad to protect myself from someone who is from all accounts an extremely proficient and is going to try an ruin me later but I'd rather defer to you guys. 

You say its crappy so I won't do it. It just seemed smart, albeit slightly unethical. I never knew there were gloves on when it comes to divorce. 

 
My lawyer is working at a snail's pace and his assistant is not giving me much information as to what the hell is going on with my case either.

Damn guy probably hasn't opened my file in a week...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If anyone missed my other thread- wife is buying a house w/her father w/o my consent. Do I have any legal discourse o prevent his before it goes through? 

 
El Floppo said:
Congrats, Woz. :thumbup:  ..... maybe.

this thread is like a boring version of law and order, minus the chases or recognizable actors always being the culprit... but it's still a fun read. if the other architects and I were to start an architect thread- good lord would it suck.
Click to expand...
yeah... well... maybe not.

 
El Floppo said:
Congrats, Woz. :thumbup:  ..... maybe.

this thread is like a boring version of law and order, minus the chases or recognizable actors always being the culprit... but it's still a fun read. if the other architects and I were to start an architect thread- good lord would it suck.
Click to expand...
I dropped out of architecture school.  That #### was way too hard. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
I thought that was standard operating procedure. 

Im still not sure how it's bad to protect myself from someone who is from all accounts an extremely proficient and is going to try an ruin me later but I'd rather defer to you guys. 

You say its crappy so I won't do it. It just seemed smart, albeit slightly unethical. I never knew there were gloves on when it comes to divorce. 
Click to expand...
You're why my firm started charging for family law consults. 

 
STEADYMOBBIN 22 said:
But I do plan on using him if I proceed. 

I just want to beat her to the punch. 
Click to expand...
You should have started with this.  If you want to hire him because you think he's good and, more importantly, you trust his advice, you should hire him because that's a smart move - not to spite your wife. 

 
Wife cheated. Are there any negative ramifications if I move out and rent an apartment for 6 mos to a year before divorce? Does it matter if I move out before I file or after?

Im in Texas. Thanks. 

 
Help Wanted said:
Wife cheated. Are there any negative ramifications if I move out and rent an apartment for 6 mos to a year before divorce? Does it matter if I move out before I file or after?

Im in Texas. Thanks. 
Click to expand...
This is not an advice thread. You need to call an attorney in Texas.

 
Help Wanted said:
Wife cheated. Are there any negative ramifications if I move out and rent an apartment for 6 mos to a year before divorce? Does it matter if I move out before I file or after?

Im in Texas. Thanks. 
Click to expand...
Yeah you're not getting any actual advice in this thread other than to consult a family law attorney in your jurisdiction. 

 
Not surprising at all:

Many of us — and probably all lawyers — fantasize about being elevated to the bench, wearing the black robes, getting called “your honor” and imparting our tough but wise decisions to cowering plaintiffs, defendants and counsel.

But it ain’t all that, if we’re to believe veteran Cook County Circuit Judge Sheryl Pethers.

Unless you’ve got the clout to get a prestigious courtroom assignment, Pethers says, being a judge in this county is “demoralizing” and often leaves you “bored out of your mind.”

In an email last month titled “Hanging Up the Robe,” Pethers announced her plan to retire at the end of her term in December and said she’ll leave the $187,000-a-year job with few regrets.

The email reads a bit like a law-and-order version of chef Anthony Bourdain’s “Kitchen Confidential,” with accusations that unnamed colleagues in the Cook County judiciary are often mailing it in.

Sure, there are “real upsides” to being a judge here, Pethers says.

“Good pay, great benefits, lots of vacation,” wrote Pethers, 58.

She says she also enjoyed working with some of her fellow judges, resolving disputes and explaining the legal system to non-lawyers who file cases without an attorney.

But Pethers found it particularly depressing that “there are judges who regularly don’t even come to work, but get to choose their courtrooms,” according to the email sent to friends and colleagues.

Pethers came to realize she never had a shot at presiding over a courtroom in the Law Division. She worked almost her entire career as an attorney in the Law Division and aspired to sit in judgment there, she says.

“For years, I have watched folks elected long after me get assignments I wanted,” says Pethers, who became the county’s first openly lesbian judge when she was elected in 2004. “Some of them, although not on the bench as long as me, were at least as qualified for the positions. Others, not so much.”

Pethers clearly blames her failure to enjoy upward career mobility on a lack of political influence: “Being ‘nobody who nobody sent’ doesn’t cut it. And because of that, qualification and experience don’t either.”

She doesn’t name any of the allegedly better-clouted colleagues who were promoted unfairly over her. But Pethers put the blame for the situation squarely on longtime Chief Judge Timothy Evans.

“He never once returned my calls,” Pethers says. “When I complained a bit about that, his assistant told me to write him and tell him what assignment I would like, and then she’d set up a meeting. I wrote. Never heard a word. Called to set up a meeting. Never got a call back.”

In a statement Tuesday, Evans — who’s facing a rare challenge to his own job, from alderman-turned-judge Thomas Allen — said Pethers expressed interest in a Law Division vacancy in 2011 but her supervisor later “indicated she was no longer interested.”

Evans also said he was “surprised and disappointed” to learn of Pethers’ views of her time on the bench.

“I believe there is always honor and gratification in service as a judge,” he said. “No matter how minor or major a case may seem to be, each litigant regards his or her case as the most important thing in the world and each deserves to be treated accordingly.”

His statement did not address Pethers’ allegation about judges playing hooky.

Pethers did not return calls seeking comment.

Her email blast, though, vividly told what it’s like to lord over a local legal backwater.

What little challenging work she’s been given, Pethers writes, “takes all of about 2-3 hours a day” and is on her docket only every other week.

The rest apparently is a distasteful snore: “I have spent 12 years throwing people out of their homes in evictions, placing judgments against poor people who cannot pay their credit card and student loan debts and dealing with lousy insurance companies in fender-bender car accident cases. And the occasional breach of contract, slip and fall or dog bite.”

Now, she sees she had been “so naïve” when striving for a judgeship.

“A well-known ‘mover and shaker’ told me when I was campaigning that, if I thought an election was political, ‘Wait until you’re a judge — there’s no place in Chicago more political than that,'” Pethers says. “I didn’t understand that then, but I sure do now.”
Click to expand...
http://chicago.suntimes.com/politics/mihalopoulos-without-clout-judge-says-no-appeal-boring-job/

I had one case in front of her. Nice lady. Good temperament. Understood the issues. Can't ask for much more in a judge around here.

 
I made a federal judge pull out a copy of the FRCP today on the bench during argument and follow along with me.  After which she said she didn't agree with the rule, but she conceded that it said what I said it did.

It was vindicating.  Also, it was Rule 69, so I was giggling a little inside every time I cited to it.

 
Law Division - Suits seeking money damages in excess of $30k

Chancery Division - Suits seeking equitable relief; class actions; foreclosures; mechanic's liens; administrative review

Domestic Relations Division

Domestic Violence Division

County Division - Mental health; adoption; tax; elections

Probate Division

Criminal Division

Elder Law and Miscellaneous Remedies Division

Child Protection Division

Juvenile Justice Division

Municipal Department - Suits seeking money damages less than $30k; eviction; housing; misdemeanor; traffic

 
Henry Ford said:
There's a section called the "Law Division"?  What are the other divisions?
Click to expand...
We have:

Law Division

Law Division Special Civl

Law Division Special Civil Landlord Tenant

Law Division Special Civil Small Claims

Law Division - Criminal

Law Division - Criminal, Drug Court

Chancery Division - General Equity

Chancery Division - Probate

Chancery Division - Family

And family has 4 or 5 subparts

 
Yeah, I figured after I typed that I'd hear about equity courts... it just sounds funny that there's a Law court and... other courts.

 
But tell a chancery judge you have a jury demand for your money claims and it's an automatic transfer for the jury trial.

 
Doesn't sound like she was in equity if she was doing insurance fender benders and slip and falls.

For my money, a "large" contract case is every bit as a soul-crushingly boring as a "small" one.  I'm on a $100 million case right now.  We're spending gobs on discovery.  The case could be decided without a lick of discovery. 

 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

rockaction
  • Locked
Argumentum Ad Personam
Replies
26
Views
834
rockaction
rockaction
Sand
***Official 2025 Pro Cycling Thread*** - Come Dope with Us - Viva La Vuelta!!
56 57 58
Replies
3K
Views
54K
Tick
Tick
the moops
What's a typical weekday for you?
2
Replies
85
Views
3K
MAC_32
MAC_32

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 5 (members: 0, guests: 5)
Back
Top