What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (1 Viewer)

That kind of BS would never be tolerated at my firm.

Edit: The kind of crap Scoob's partner pulled.
Whew. I was hoping Fabio was welcome.

Is RHE Scoob? There are way too many names for every person on this board. I can't keep up.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Here's a war story; one Saturday I was supposed to go to NYC to meet some friends. Instead I was at the office until 1am. The case settled on Tuesday. My hours didn't count towards my billable goal. The end.
I was asked to "help" out on a state appellate brief on some zoning decision (after the partner had taken the assignment and forgotten about it for month). I know absolutely no zoning law, but was told it would simply be a matter of putting some polish on local counsel's brief (he had done zoning law for 30 year). I was told it would be 40 hours, max. I had other billing work, but no urgent deadline so I put it aside.

The client then decided they were pissed at local counsel, so they didn't want him to write the brief. So I had three weeks to learn the record (thousands of pages), teach myself the Byzantine zoning ordinances at issue, and write an Appellee's brief responding to the worst type of opponent's brief. The brief that throws about 1000 different theories at the wall and sees if one sticks. So I spent something like 180 billable hours (over the holidays) on the case, pulling plenty of 1AM and 2AM nights and working the weekends, but finally produced a pretty good brief (the resulting per curiam opinion adopted huge sections of it wholesale). I had gone to the billing partner and raised some concerns that I had billed more than I would have liked on the brief, so he asked me to write 70 of the hours off to business development. I didn't get billable credit for that, but whatever.

The next month, I notice that the entire month's work had been written off. I got no billable credit for the entire 180 hours. It took me under the hours target for a bonus. If I had declined the work and just done the billable work I already had, I would have made it without problem. But then I wouldn't have been a "team player."
You didn't get credit for written off time? That's a pretty harsh policy, one that basically should prevent any and all first year associates from meeting their hours.
Yeah, I should have been more accurate. It wasn't "written off" because that would have made the partner look bad. It was also moved into business development. Which was worse for me than being written off because I had already maxed out the BD/pro bono hours that could be counted toward the billable target.
Having worked at a few different BigLaw firms, the policies here are one of the major differences that I've noticed. Some seem better at allowing partners to write off while still giving associates credit. Some make it a bigger pain for partners to write off. The latter leads to some awkward situations where partners don't want me to bill too much and encourages to put into business development, and then the management committee gets annoyed at me not having enough billable hours.

 
Such a dbag. It really is a wonder you can remember to breathe.
You'll never make the homies list with that attitude. Listen to someone who was once on that homie list.
How did you get off of it? I told him to sign up for a bunch credit cards, take cash advances on them all then invest it all in HEMP. Somehow that got me on it. :kicksrock:
You could always threaten legal action as being on his list causes you distress and the possibility of bring down the wrath of Krista upon your noggin ;)

 
T Bell said:
Henry Ford said:
I will say, when the case will look stupid to a defense attorney, it's important to include facts and ideas in your discovery responses that make them realize they have to take this seriously, if you ever want to settle it. If you're assuming trial, fine, but if you want to settle you don't want months of status reports saying the case is worth pennies before you get to real settlement talks.

But your case doesn't sound like one of those.
The only thing that they're going to take seriously in an assault and battery case in interrogatory responses are the medicals. Everything else they're going to be thinking "yeah sure" until they hear the live witness testimony.
Depends. If their client is saying your guy was the aggressor and you're saying you've got three witness statements backing up that he had a beer bottle broken over his head before he even got up from the tablr, attorneys tend to start reevaluating.
The entire incident is on video. Altercation begins in the bar (due to an ongoing work feud between client and assailant and fact my client put his arm around assailant's wife). Assailant grabs my client's arm and challenges him to a fight. My client makes his way to the exit. As my client is at the exit doors assailant runs up from behind, past security, and lands quite possibly the most vicious uppercut I've ever seen. Assailant has already pled guilty in the criminal court. So, factual disputes are really about what led up to the incident (my client's intoxication, assailant's intoxication, my client's potential provocation, etc.).

Difficulty in the case at the moment is that, in my opinion, the bar probably has some very solid defenses and I'm not confident I can get past a summary judgment. The assailant is presently being back by his insurance, but realistically at any time they could try to indemnify themselves because I'm his insurance coverage doesn't cover this type of behavior (although I've talked to the insurance company and they want to back the assailant as much as they can for good faith business purposes).
Ah, so you're suing the bar? Yeah, that'll be tough.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I've considered asking all my witnesses to say "I so swear... so help me God!" in response to being sworn in.
If that's not 100% authentic, it won't work. With Fabio it obviously was.

That story is so awesome though.

BTW, there's no ####### way I'm sitting down as a defense attorney on that last exchange with Fabio. I'll have him recite the alphabet - anything - just to not end on that note.

 
Anyone ever have a client ask if you will take a case on contingency and they want to sue for 500 bucks? I always enjoy that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just read the Fabio story. HFS. If you put that in a movie, people would say it was too preposterous to be believed.

 
Anyone ever have a client ask if you will take a case on contingency and they want to sue for 500 bucks? I always enjoy that.
My favorite is the prospective clients who come in requesting pro bono and make the "I'll let you take this case because it should make headlines and go all the way to Washington and make you famous" claim. Usually, this is on some totally banal misdemeanor disorderly conduct case and they want to sue the prosecutor or something. I generally like to tell them I'm under qualified for such an endeavor.

 
Well, damn. I'm going to have to delete the Fabio story. I'm afraid I've told it to everyone who's ever met me, and someone I know already found it on here. Identity compromised. So I either have to stop telling it, or pull it off the internet in case I happen to say something un-lawyerlike on this board. I think I know which one is more likely to happen. Anyone is welcome to request a pm with a copy and paste.

 
Some guy with a freshly minted bar card has no idea what he's doing in the defense of a case I have. The way that he's trying to spin the claim will almost assuredly result in the insurer denying coverage and pulling the defense. Between me and my co-counsel, we've done well over a hundred of these types of cases, and we know how to trigger coverage. We called him to explain to him what he was doing, and why it would backfire on his client, and how to get the insurer to engage. He got really defensive and just kept repeating the same (misunderstood) argument.

We told him it was clearly pointless to continue talking to him, that the court had already invited us to bring a summary judgment motion on the issue that would blow his coverage (this guy didn't go to that hearing), and that he could explain to his client why he was going to be held individually liable with no insurance. At no time did anyone raise a voice or utter an inappropriate word (in fact, my co-counsel is a devout Mormon and widely recognized as one of the nicest guys in our industry).

This morning we got a letter to from this guy complaining that we tried to intimidate him and including a copy of the local bar association's guidelines for professional courtesy. I'm going to send him a handkerchief.

 
Some guy with a freshly minted bar card has no idea what he's doing in the defense of a case I have. The way that he's trying to spin the claim will almost assuredly result in the insurer denying coverage and pulling the defense. Between me and my co-counsel, we've done well over a hundred of these types of cases, and we know how to trigger coverage. We called him to explain to him what he was doing, and why it would backfire on his client, and how to get the insurer to engage. He got really defensive and just kept repeating the same (misunderstood) argument.

We told him it was clearly pointless to continue talking to him, that the court had already invited us to bring a summary judgment motion on the issue that would blow his coverage (this guy didn't go to that hearing), and that he could explain to his client why he was going to be held individually liable with no insurance. At no time did anyone raise a voice or utter an inappropriate word (in fact, my co-counsel is a devout Mormon and widely recognized as one of the nicest guys in our industry).

This morning we got a letter to from this guy complaining that we tried to intimidate him and including a copy of the local bar association's guidelines for professional courtesy. I'm going to send him a handkerchief.
Related

 
Well, damn. I'm going to have to delete the Fabio story. I'm afraid I've told it to everyone who's ever met me, and someone I know already found it on here. Identity compromised. So I either have to stop telling it, or pull it off the internet in case I happen to say something un-lawyerlike on this board. I think I know which one is more likely to happen. Anyone is welcome to request a pm with a copy and paste.
Put it in spoiler tags, which I believe makes it search proof.

 
Well, damn. I'm going to have to delete the Fabio story. I'm afraid I've told it to everyone who's ever met me, and someone I know already found it on here. Identity compromised. So I either have to stop telling it, or pull it off the internet in case I happen to say something un-lawyerlike on this board. I think I know which one is more likely to happen. Anyone is welcome to request a pm with a copy and paste.
Put it in spoiler tags, which I believe makes it search proof.
Hmm... maybe. Is that true? They can't be searched?

 
I hung my shingle in August 2009. When I started out I had nothing more than a bar card and a laptop. I rented a small office in a suite with three other solos. Here's how I embarrassed myself in my first week as a lawyer...

I had moved to town and been practicing for all of about 5 days. At about 4:00 on Thursday, one of the other guys in my office gets a call from a tenant who is being evicted from his house the next day. The problem? The slumlord who owns the house has already lost it to the bank, with whom the tenant has been in contact and arranged to stay for another month. The slumlord is desperate for cash, though, so he sues the guy for eviction even though he doesn't own the place. The tenant doesn't have much money and the lawyer in my office doesn't want the case so he gives it to me. I tell the guy I'll prepare an emergency TRO so we can at least stop the court officer from removing him from the house the next day. We agree to a flat fee of something like $500. Whatever. I won't have to eat Ramen noodles next week. So I get started on the TRO and I take, at least, 7 hours putting it all together and going over it with an obsession normally reserved for something that will end in sex. I've got the motion, the brief in support, etc etc.

So we get to the courthouse at 8 a.m. the next morning, find out what judge is doing walk-ins, and head for the courtroom. Per the court rules, I called the slumlord and gave him notice of my intent to seek the TRO and he heads over the courthouse to argue his side.

But, brothers and sisters, was I ever ready.

This was my Scopes trial. I strode into that courtroom like the ******* test tube son of Atticus Finch and Daniel Kaffee. I was revved, my friends. I was going to wipe the floor with the slumlord and, when I was done with that guy, I was ready to stand there and take on whoever else wanted some. I was going to Royal Rumble that courtroom until the clerk raised my arm in victory, all the pretty girls swooned, and the other lawyers offered to buy me drinks. Now, prior to this, I had only been in the courtroom as a lawyer one other time. When I was sworn in a couple months prior. And, as most of you probably would agree, there is a big difference between knowing the law, and knowing how to be a lawyer. But I had a landmark case to win for my poor, oppressed client. I couldn't be bothered with trivial nonsense like procedure.

So the judge finished his docket and me, my client, and the slumlord are the only ones left in the courtroom. The clerk asks if she can help us and I hand her my motion and brief and tell her why we're there. The judge gives it a quick look and then turns to me and just ... kind of stares for a bit. I take this as my cue to make my argument and I launch into it like I'm trying to get a little black kid into a segregated school.

After about 90 seconds of breathless (though I might add quite well-reasoned and persuasive) argument the judge interrupts. He pushes his glasses down to the end of his nose, peers over them, past the bench, and, seemingly, directly into my soul, and says: "Sooooo, who ARE you?"

Yup. It's a good idea to introduce yourself first. You know, enter your appearance for the record, "may it please the court," and all that good stuff. On the bright side, my worthy opponent realized he was seriously outmatched (or, more likely, realized his bluff had been called and he didn't really want to lie to the court about owning the house) and agreed to drop the eviction proceeding. My client got to stay in the house for another month and I ended up with a good "first day in court" story. But the real cherry on top is that I got stiffed for the $500.

 
Well, damn. I'm going to have to delete the Fabio story. I'm afraid I've told it to everyone who's ever met me, and someone I know already found it on here. Identity compromised. So I either have to stop telling it, or pull it off the internet in case I happen to say something un-lawyerlike on this board. I think I know which one is more likely to happen. Anyone is welcome to request a pm with a copy and paste.
Put it in spoiler tags, which I believe makes it search proof.
Checked to see. Definitely not search proof - stuff in spoiler tags even shows up on google.

 
Well, it looks like I'm about to have another "I'm a state court judge and I don't give a **** about the law" story.

Those are fun.
My favorite state court judge quote: "don't quote other district court judges to me, counselor. I don't read their opinions, and I don't care what they say." Followed by ruling against me on an exception I'd already won in front of another judge in the exact same case.

 
Well, it looks like I'm about to have another "I'm a state court judge and I don't give a **** about the law" story.

Those are fun.
My favorite state court judge quote: "don't quote other district court judges to me, counselor. I don't read their opinions, and I don't care what they say." Followed by ruling against me on an exception I'd already won in front of another judge in the exact same case.
This guy literally got bench-slapped on this exact issue two weeks ago.

 
Well, it looks like I'm about to have another "I'm a state court judge and I don't give a **** about the law" story.

Those are fun.
My favorite state court judge quote: "don't quote other district court judges to me, counselor. I don't read their opinions, and I don't care what they say." Followed by ruling against me on an exception I'd already won in front of another judge in the exact same case.
This guy literally got bench-slapped on this exact issue two weeks ago.
Meaning court of appeals reversed him pointedly in a published opinion or something?

 
Well, it looks like I'm about to have another "I'm a state court judge and I don't give a **** about the law" story.

Those are fun.
My favorite state court judge quote: "don't quote other district court judges to me, counselor. I don't read their opinions, and I don't care what they say." Followed by ruling against me on an exception I'd already won in front of another judge in the exact same case.
This guy literally got bench-slapped on this exact issue two weeks ago.
Meaning court of appeals reversed him pointedly in a published opinion or something?
He said literally. I assume that means someone slapped him in the face with a bench.

 
DocGonzo said:
I hung my shingle in August 2009. When I started out I had nothing more than a bar card and a laptop. I rented a small office in a suite with three other solos. Here's how I embarrassed myself in my first week as a lawyer...

I had moved to town and been practicing for all of about 5 days. At about 4:00 on Thursday, one of the other guys in my office gets a call from a tenant who is being evicted from his house the next day. The problem? The slumlord who owns the house has already lost it to the bank, with whom the tenant has been in contact and arranged to stay for another month. The slumlord is desperate for cash, though, so he sues the guy for eviction even though he doesn't own the place. The tenant doesn't have much money and the lawyer in my office doesn't want the case so he gives it to me. I tell the guy I'll prepare an emergency TRO so we can at least stop the court officer from removing him from the house the next day. We agree to a flat fee of something like $500. Whatever. I won't have to eat Ramen noodles next week. So I get started on the TRO and I take, at least, 7 hours putting it all together and going over it with an obsession normally reserved for something that will end in sex. I've got the motion, the brief in support, etc etc.

So we get to the courthouse at 8 a.m. the next morning, find out what judge is doing walk-ins, and head for the courtroom. Per the court rules, I called the slumlord and gave him notice of my intent to seek the TRO and he heads over the courthouse to argue his side.

But, brothers and sisters, was I ever ready.

This was my Scopes trial. I strode into that courtroom like the ******* test tube son of Atticus Finch and Daniel Kaffee. I was revved, my friends. I was going to wipe the floor with the slumlord and, when I was done with that guy, I was ready to stand there and take on whoever else wanted some. I was going to Royal Rumble that courtroom until the clerk raised my arm in victory, all the pretty girls swooned, and the other lawyers offered to buy me drinks. Now, prior to this, I had only been in the courtroom as a lawyer one other time. When I was sworn in a couple months prior. And, as most of you probably would agree, there is a big difference between knowing the law, and knowing how to be a lawyer. But I had a landmark case to win for my poor, oppressed client. I couldn't be bothered with trivial nonsense like procedure.

So the judge finished his docket and me, my client, and the slumlord are the only ones left in the courtroom. The clerk asks if she can help us and I hand her my motion and brief and tell her why we're there. The judge gives it a quick look and then turns to me and just ... kind of stares for a bit. I take this as my cue to make my argument and I launch into it like I'm trying to get a little black kid into a segregated school.

After about 90 seconds of breathless (though I might add quite well-reasoned and persuasive) argument the judge interrupts. He pushes his glasses down to the end of his nose, peers over them, past the bench, and, seemingly, directly into my soul, and says: "Sooooo, who ARE you?"

Yup. It's a good idea to introduce yourself first. You know, enter your appearance for the record, "may it please the court," and all that good stuff. On the bright side, my worthy opponent realized he was seriously outmatched (or, more likely, realized his bluff had been called and he didn't really want to lie to the court about owning the house) and agreed to drop the eviction proceeding. My client got to stay in the house for another month and I ended up with a good "first day in court" story. But the real cherry on top is that I got stiffed for the $500.
I forgot to intro myself once in front of a judge I always practice in front of. When I was done talking he asked me, now since you didn't put your name on the record counsel do you want to say that all again?

Ugh......

 
T Bell said:
T Bell said:
Henry Ford said:
I will say, when the case will look stupid to a defense attorney, it's important to include facts and ideas in your discovery responses that make them realize they have to take this seriously, if you ever want to settle it. If you're assuming trial, fine, but if you want to settle you don't want months of status reports saying the case is worth pennies before you get to real settlement talks.

But your case doesn't sound like one of those.
The only thing that they're going to take seriously in an assault and battery case in interrogatory responses are the medicals. Everything else they're going to be thinking "yeah sure" until they hear the live witness testimony.
Depends. If their client is saying your guy was the aggressor and you're saying you've got three witness statements backing up that he had a beer bottle broken over his head before he even got up from the tablr, attorneys tend to start reevaluating.
The entire incident is on video. Altercation begins in the bar (due to an ongoing work feud between client and assailant and fact my client put his arm around assailant's wife). Assailant grabs my client's arm and challenges him to a fight. My client makes his way to the exit. As my client is at the exit doors assailant runs up from behind, past security, and lands quite possibly the most vicious uppercut I've ever seen. Assailant has already pled guilty in the criminal court. So, factual disputes are really about what led up to the incident (my client's intoxication, assailant's intoxication, my client's potential provocation, etc.).

Difficulty in the case at the moment is that, in my opinion, the bar probably has some very solid defenses and I'm not confident I can get past a summary judgment. The assailant is presently being back by his insurance, but realistically at any time they could try to indemnify themselves because I'm his insurance coverage doesn't cover this type of behavior (although I've talked to the insurance company and they want to back the assailant as much as they can for good faith business purposes).
Ah, so you're suing the bar? Yeah, that'll be tough.
The bar, the assailant, the assailant's wife and brother, bouncers, etc.

 
Henry Ford said:
T Bell said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Henry Ford said:
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Well, it looks like I'm about to have another "I'm a state court judge and I don't give a **** about the law" story.

Those are fun.
My favorite state court judge quote: "don't quote other district court judges to me, counselor. I don't read their opinions, and I don't care what they say." Followed by ruling against me on an exception I'd already won in front of another judge in the exact same case.
This guy literally got bench-slapped on this exact issue two weeks ago.
Meaning court of appeals reversed him pointedly in a published opinion or something?
He said literally. I assume that means someone slapped him in the face with a bench.
Exactly. :hifive:

It was an unpublished opinion, in fact. But the appellate court pointedly remanded on the issue (and the record was actually far less favorable for the appellant in that case than it will be for us). Reversal isn't really an option because its a damages issue. Hey, maybe we draw another panel and he's upheld. But I doubt it.

I've been before this guy before, so I knew there was a chance of this. He gets reversed a lot.

 
Ok, pat myself on the back time. I just finished pro bono day. Spent the entire day intaking new pro bono cases. Didn't do one thing I can bill for. Actually helped some people. Exhausted. Definately going to be finishing that bottle of Gentlemen Jack in my house tonight. That's right, I'm the good guy. Right here. Yup.

I have to destroy a marriage tomorrow. But today, I'm wearing the white hat.

 
Ok, pat myself on the back time. I just finished pro bono day. Spent the entire day intaking new pro bono cases. Didn't do one thing I can bill for. Actually helped some people. Exhausted. Definately going to be finishing that bottle of Gentlemen Jack in my house tonight. That's right, I'm the good guy. Right here. Yup.

I have to destroy a marriage tomorrow. But today, I'm wearing the white hat.
Nice work.

I've got a case I technically have a contract for but will never recover on, and have spent the day pleading with the insurance company not to deny coverage. They agreed to furnish a defense! Hahaha! Filed suit in August and still don't have an answer. Like a squirrel on my lap with a steering wheel all day.

 
T Bell said:
T Bell said:
Henry Ford said:
I will say, when the case will look stupid to a defense attorney, it's important to include facts and ideas in your discovery responses that make them realize they have to take this seriously, if you ever want to settle it. If you're assuming trial, fine, but if you want to settle you don't want months of status reports saying the case is worth pennies before you get to real settlement talks.

But your case doesn't sound like one of those.
The only thing that they're going to take seriously in an assault and battery case in interrogatory responses are the medicals. Everything else they're going to be thinking "yeah sure" until they hear the live witness testimony.
Depends. If their client is saying your guy was the aggressor and you're saying you've got three witness statements backing up that he had a beer bottle broken over his head before he even got up from the tablr, attorneys tend to start reevaluating.
The entire incident is on video. Altercation begins in the bar (due to an ongoing work feud between client and assailant and fact my client put his arm around assailant's wife). Assailant grabs my client's arm and challenges him to a fight. My client makes his way to the exit. As my client is at the exit doors assailant runs up from behind, past security, and lands quite possibly the most vicious uppercut I've ever seen. Assailant has already pled guilty in the criminal court. So, factual disputes are really about what led up to the incident (my client's intoxication, assailant's intoxication, my client's potential provocation, etc.).

Difficulty in the case at the moment is that, in my opinion, the bar probably has some very solid defenses and I'm not confident I can get past a summary judgment. The assailant is presently being back by his insurance, but realistically at any time they could try to indemnify themselves because I'm his insurance coverage doesn't cover this type of behavior (although I've talked to the insurance company and they want to back the assailant as much as they can for good faith business purposes).
Ah, so you're suing the bar? Yeah, that'll be tough.
The bar, the assailant, the assailant's wife and brother, bouncers, etc.
:unsure:

 
Ok, pat myself on the back time. I just finished pro bono day. Spent the entire day intaking new pro bono cases. Didn't do one thing I can bill for. Actually helped some people. Exhausted. Definately going to be finishing that bottle of Gentlemen Jack in my house tonight. That's right, I'm the good guy. Right here. Yup.

I have to destroy a marriage tomorrow. But today, I'm wearing the white hat.
mandatory assignment from the state? I am probably jinxing things, but I have lucked out for 14 years.

 
The assailant is presently being back by his insurance, but realistically at any time they could try to indemnify themselves because I'm his insurance coverage doesn't cover this type of behavior (although I've talked to the insurance company and they want to back the assailant as much as they can for good faith business purposes).
I've read this several times and don't understand what you're trying to say here.

 
The assailant is presently being back by his insurance, but realistically at any time they could try to indemnify themselves because I'm his insurance coverage doesn't cover this type of behavior (although I've talked to the insurance company and they want to back the assailant as much as they can for good faith business purposes).
I've read this several times and don't understand what you're trying to say here.
Tortfeasor's insurance company is currently providing a defense, but of course almost certainly has an intentional tort exclusion. I have no idea what the indemnity issue could possibly be, or how one indemnifies ones self.

 
The assailant is presently being back by his insurance, but realistically at any time they could try to indemnify themselves because I'm his insurance coverage doesn't cover this type of behavior (although I've talked to the insurance company and they want to back the assailant as much as they can for good faith business purposes).
I've read this several times and don't understand what you're trying to say here.
Tortfeasor's insurance company is currently providing a defense, but of course almost certainly has an intentional tort exclusion. I have no idea what the indemnity issue could possibly be, or how one indemnifies ones self.
that's the part I'm baffled by. I can see them defending under a ROR, but I don't know what that part means about indemnifying themselves or who would be doing that (whatever it means).

 
The assailant is presently being back by his insurance, but realistically at any time they could try to indemnify themselves because I'm his insurance coverage doesn't cover this type of behavior (although I've talked to the insurance company and they want to back the assailant as much as they can for good faith business purposes).
I've read this several times and don't understand what you're trying to say here.
Tortfeasor's insurance company is currently providing a defense, but of course almost certainly has an intentional tort exclusion. I have no idea what the indemnity issue could possibly be, or how one indemnifies ones self.
that's the part I'm baffled by. I can see them defending under a ROR, but I don't know what that part means about indemnifying themselves or who would be doing that (whatever it means).
He's using "indemnify" the way I use "literally," apparently.

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top