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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (3 Viewers)

Ned Ryerson said:
As I wrote earlier in the thread I am a trademark lawyer. I received the following letter from a client (details have been changed, yada, yada)-

Dear Ned,

I filed an application for the mark ACME, it was rejected. What would you think your chances of overcoming the rejection would be and why. Here is our client's website for you to consider in giving an opinion. What would the cost be if you were to file an actual response overcoming the rejection?

I write back-

Dear client,

I think your chances would be sucky for the following reasons;

a

b

c

d

e

If I were to respond the cost would be $X.

Client writes back-

Dear Ned-

I think we are not going to proceed with having you respond, thanks.

What say the group- Billable or general client "freebie"
Click to expand...
I'd say freebie unless you had to spend a lot of time on it.

 
I was in depositions all day. Defending. My wife just asked me what I wanted for dinner and I reflexively said objection.

Alcohol is very much the answer.

 
Client owes attorney a good chunck of money. Gives song and dance a few times why money isn't being paid. Whatever. Sometimes things happens

Client calls attorney to let attorney know that there is a new file coming. Purchase of a business. Client is paying cash and dropping off the cash for the deal. Cash amount is 15 times what client owes attorney.

Attorney is naturally perplexed at how client cannot pay attorney with so much money ready to be used to buy a business. Client response....... sorry, business has been slow but this should help.

Um..............

_________________________________

Attorney gets email from prospective client at 1 a.m. (yes, a.m. - as in, anyone on the east coast not doing drugs, or partying with AZRon is in bed) because client needs attorney for a court appearance in the morning. Attorney does not get email until 7 am when attorney checks email. Attorney is going to call prospective client when he gets to office. Gets to office earlier than normal and there are 5 voice mail messages the last one - left at 6am - wonders why there has not been a call back yet and this is very important.

Attorney, being a nice guy, calls client before the official start of business but obviously after 6am. After dealing with client tirade about what happened in life, it is clear that client needs attorney to file emergency action and spend at least all day today in court. Attorney, in the course of normal business obviously, informs client of the cost for same. Client is surprised that attorney would charge for something like this and can't possible pay it and this is too important and the other side should have to pay once attorney wins. Attorney is happy with the confidence bestowed at the assumed win, however reiterates that money needs to be paid up front. Client is unhappy and hangs up on attorney midsentence.

Um......

__________________________________________

Attorney meets with pro-bono client. Pro-bono means free. Attorney helps many such clients to the detriment of making money but hey, karma isn't just for Fallout 3. Pro bono client had problem. Attorney fixes problem. The charge had their been one would have been easily a dinner for chet. With problem finished pro bono client wants to meet for attorney to deal with a few other things. Attorney informs pro bono client that the pro bono stuff is done and that if client needs anything else they either need to pay attorney or go back into the pro bono system for assignment to most likely another attorney. Client is perplexed. Client assumes that attorney is now his personal butler for no wage requiredto fix every problem in client's life. Attorney corrects this thinking.

Pro bono client proceeds to say that payment cannot be made because he was saving his money to take his family on vacation to a particular island that costs more than what the client had to certify as assets available on an annual basis to qualify for pro-bono assistance. When attorney points this out, client is further perplexed - he shouldn't have to count savings as assets for legal assitance because that is savings. He worked hard to get that. Attorney becomes perplexed. A talk ensues about the color of the sky, how water is, indeed wet, and a few other things that attorney assumed any living creature with one brain cell could fathom. Pro bono client is very upset that attorney will not work for free anymore and accuses attorney of being an ambulance chasing scum like everyone else only trying to make money and leaves.

Um.....

____________________________________

It's only 11:00am.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere though. And I need a drink.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Client owes attorney a good chunck of money. Gives song and dance a few times why money isn't being paid. Whatever. Sometimes things happens

Client calls attorney to let attorney know that there is a new file coming. Purchase of a business. Client is paying cash and dropping off the cash for the deal. Cash amount is 15 times what client owes attorney.

Attorney is naturally perplexed at how client cannot pay attorney with so much money ready to be used to buy a business. Client response....... sorry, business has been slow but this should help.

Um..............

_________________________________

Attorney gets email from prospective client at 1 a.m. (yes, a.m. - as in, anyone on the east coast not doing drugs, or partying with AZRon is in bed) because client needs attorney for a court appearance in the morning. Attorney does not get email until 7 am when attorney checks email. Attorney is going to call prospective client when he gets to office. Gets to office earlier than normal and there are 5 voice mail messages the last one - left at 6am - wonders why there has not been a call back yet and this is very important.

Attorney, being a nice guy, calls client before the official start of business but obviously after 6am. After dealing with client tirade about what happened in life, it is clear that client needs attorney to file emergency action and spend at least all day today in court. Attorney, in the course of normal business obviously, informs client of the cost for same. Client is surprised that attorney would charge for something like this and can't possible pay it and this is too important and the other side should have to pay once attorney wins. Attorney is happy with the confidence bestowed at the assumed win, however reiterates that money needs to be paid up front. Client is unhappy and hangs up on attorney midsentence.

Um......

__________________________________________

Attorney meets with pro-bono client. Pro-bono means free. Attorney helps many such clients to the detriment of making money but hey, karma isn't just for Fallout 3. Pro bono client had problem. Attorney fixes problem. The charge had their been one would have been easily a dinner for chet. With problem finished pro bono client wants to meet for attorney to deal with a few other things. Attorney informs pro bono client that the pro bono stuff is done and that if client needs anything else they either need to pay attorney or go back into the pro bono system for assignment to most likely another attorney. Client is perplexed. Client assumes that attorney is now his personal butler for no wage requiredto fix every problem in client's life. Attorney corrects this thinking.

Pro bono client proceeds to say that payment cannot be made because he was saving his money to take his family on vacation to a particular island that costs more than what the client had to certify as assets available on an annual basis to qualify for pro-bono assistance. When attorney points this out, client is further perplexed - he shouldn't have to count savings as assets for legal assitance because that is savings. He worked hard to get that. Attorney becomes perplexed. A talk ensues about the color of the sky, how water is, indeed wet, and a few other things that attorney assumed any living creature with one brain cell could fathom. Pro bono client is very upset that attorney will not work for free anymore and accuses attorney of being an ambulance chasing scum like everyone else only trying to make money and leaves.

Um.....

____________________________________

It's only 11:00am.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere though. And I need a drink.
Click to expand...
Yes, but, see, we're money-grubbing ###holes for wanting to get paid for what we do.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Client owes attorney a good chunck of money. Gives song and dance a few times why money isn't being paid. Whatever. Sometimes things happens

Client calls attorney to let attorney know that there is a new file coming. Purchase of a business. Client is paying cash and dropping off the cash for the deal. Cash amount is 15 times what client owes attorney.

Attorney is naturally perplexed at how client cannot pay attorney with so much money ready to be used to buy a business. Client response....... sorry, business has been slow but this should help.

Um..............

_________________________________

Attorney gets email from prospective client at 1 a.m. (yes, a.m. - as in, anyone on the east coast not doing drugs, or partying with AZRon is in bed) because client needs attorney for a court appearance in the morning. Attorney does not get email until 7 am when attorney checks email. Attorney is going to call prospective client when he gets to office. Gets to office earlier than normal and there are 5 voice mail messages the last one - left at 6am - wonders why there has not been a call back yet and this is very important.

Attorney, being a nice guy, calls client before the official start of business but obviously after 6am. After dealing with client tirade about what happened in life, it is clear that client needs attorney to file emergency action and spend at least all day today in court. Attorney, in the course of normal business obviously, informs client of the cost for same. Client is surprised that attorney would charge for something like this and can't possible pay it and this is too important and the other side should have to pay once attorney wins. Attorney is happy with the confidence bestowed at the assumed win, however reiterates that money needs to be paid up front. Client is unhappy and hangs up on attorney midsentence.

Um......

__________________________________________

Attorney meets with pro-bono client. Pro-bono means free. Attorney helps many such clients to the detriment of making money but hey, karma isn't just for Fallout 3. Pro bono client had problem. Attorney fixes problem. The charge had their been one would have been easily a dinner for chet. With problem finished pro bono client wants to meet for attorney to deal with a few other things. Attorney informs pro bono client that the pro bono stuff is done and that if client needs anything else they either need to pay attorney or go back into the pro bono system for assignment to most likely another attorney. Client is perplexed. Client assumes that attorney is now his personal butler for no wage requiredto fix every problem in client's life. Attorney corrects this thinking.

Pro bono client proceeds to say that payment cannot be made because he was saving his money to take his family on vacation to a particular island that costs more than what the client had to certify as assets available on an annual basis to qualify for pro-bono assistance. When attorney points this out, client is further perplexed - he shouldn't have to count savings as assets for legal assitance because that is savings. He worked hard to get that. Attorney becomes perplexed. A talk ensues about the color of the sky, how water is, indeed wet, and a few other things that attorney assumed any living creature with one brain cell could fathom. Pro bono client is very upset that attorney will not work for free anymore and accuses attorney of being an ambulance chasing scum like everyone else only trying to make money and leaves.

Um.....

____________________________________

It's only 11:00am.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere though. And I need a drink.
Click to expand...
This is why I went with hating people in general.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Client owes attorney a good chunck of money. Gives song and dance a few times why money isn't being paid. Whatever. Sometimes things happens

Client calls attorney to let attorney know that there is a new file coming. Purchase of a business. Client is paying cash and dropping off the cash for the deal. Cash amount is 15 times what client owes attorney.

Attorney is naturally perplexed at how client cannot pay attorney with so much money ready to be used to buy a business. Client response....... sorry, business has been slow but this should help.

Um..............

_________________________________

Attorney gets email from prospective client at 1 a.m. (yes, a.m. - as in, anyone on the east coast not doing drugs, or partying with AZRon is in bed) because client needs attorney for a court appearance in the morning. Attorney does not get email until 7 am when attorney checks email. Attorney is going to call prospective client when he gets to office. Gets to office earlier than normal and there are 5 voice mail messages the last one - left at 6am - wonders why there has not been a call back yet and this is very important.

Attorney, being a nice guy, calls client before the official start of business but obviously after 6am. After dealing with client tirade about what happened in life, it is clear that client needs attorney to file emergency action and spend at least all day today in court. Attorney, in the course of normal business obviously, informs client of the cost for same. Client is surprised that attorney would charge for something like this and can't possible pay it and this is too important and the other side should have to pay once attorney wins. Attorney is happy with the confidence bestowed at the assumed win, however reiterates that money needs to be paid up front. Client is unhappy and hangs up on attorney midsentence.

Um......

__________________________________________

Attorney meets with pro-bono client. Pro-bono means free. Attorney helps many such clients to the detriment of making money but hey, karma isn't just for Fallout 3. Pro bono client had problem. Attorney fixes problem. The charge had their been one would have been easily a dinner for chet. With problem finished pro bono client wants to meet for attorney to deal with a few other things. Attorney informs pro bono client that the pro bono stuff is done and that if client needs anything else they either need to pay attorney or go back into the pro bono system for assignment to most likely another attorney. Client is perplexed. Client assumes that attorney is now his personal butler for no wage requiredto fix every problem in client's life. Attorney corrects this thinking.

Pro bono client proceeds to say that payment cannot be made because he was saving his money to take his family on vacation to a particular island that costs more than what the client had to certify as assets available on an annual basis to qualify for pro-bono assistance. When attorney points this out, client is further perplexed - he shouldn't have to count savings as assets for legal assitance because that is savings. He worked hard to get that. Attorney becomes perplexed. A talk ensues about the color of the sky, how water is, indeed wet, and a few other things that attorney assumed any living creature with one brain cell could fathom. Pro bono client is very upset that attorney will not work for free anymore and accuses attorney of being an ambulance chasing scum like everyone else only trying to make money and leaves.

Um.....

____________________________________

It's only 11:00am.

It's 5 o'clock somewhere though. And I need a drink.
Click to expand...
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 
O.M.G.

Did you ever write a will for a husband and wife for a simply estate and charge them a small flat fee like you always do - and then have them sign it and everything be fine and they actually are very happy - and then they call a week later with questions that they never brought up before and that were already answered - and then they call a week after that to ask more questions of the same vein - and then a week after that they show up at the office with no appointment and the attorney being a nice guy sits with them for an hour at no charge to answer all their questions - and then a week later they make an appointment to change the wills after asking all the questions and the attorney makes the changes all again without charge and they sign the new ones and are happy with them - and then call back two weeks later with a whole slew of new questions and now a level of upsetness because they don't like their wills - and then show up the next day demanding to talk to the attorney who can't talk to them because he is actually in court with paying clients - who then proceed to make an appointment to change their wills yet again - who then show up on the day in question - we can call it today - where the attorney sits down with them again and goes over the whole entire history of the entire sorted affair and ends it with a statement that they have to understand that if new wills are being written again that there has to be a new charge because the work that the attorney was hired for was done already and this would be something new - and then the clients get irate and start a shouting match about the audacity of this ***hole to charge money for a will when they have questions about it and storm out of the office using every North and South Jersey expletive you can condense into one MTV 30 minute show?

Anyone? Because if you have..... we can buy each other a beer....

....I'd say, pour me something tall and strong make it a hurricane before I go insane.... it's only half past 2 but I don't care..........

 
Yankee23Fan said:
O.M.G.

Did you ever write a will for a husband and wife for a simply estate and charge them a small flat fee like you always do - and then have them sign it and everything be fine and they actually are very happy - and then they call a week later with questions that they never brought up before and that were already answered - and then they call a week after that to ask more questions of the same vein - and then a week after that they show up at the office with no appointment and the attorney being a nice guy sits with them for an hour at no charge to answer all their questions - and then a week later they make an appointment to change the wills after asking all the questions and the attorney makes the changes all again without charge and they sign the new ones and are happy with them - and then call back two weeks later with a whole slew of new questions and now a level of upsetness because they don't like their wills - and then show up the next day demanding to talk to the attorney who can't talk to them because he is actually in court with paying clients - who then proceed to make an appointment to change their wills yet again - who then show up on the day in question - we can call it today - where the attorney sits down with them again and goes over the whole entire history of the entire sorted affair and ends it with a statement that they have to understand that if new wills are being written again that there has to be a new charge because the work that the attorney was hired for was done already and this would be something new - and then the clients get irate and start a shouting match about the audacity of this ***hole to charge money for a will when they have questions about it and storm out of the office using every North and South Jersey expletive you can condense into one MTV 30 minute show?

Anyone? Because if you have..... we can buy each other a beer....

....I'd say, pour me something tall and strong make it a hurricane before I go insane.... it's only half past 2 but I don't care..........
Click to expand...
Mine was a prenup.

 
Yankee, if you makes you feel better, I just had the following two scenarios take place:

After an expedited but tedious series of consults and settlement discussions, whereby client initially took some pretty ridiculous positions and tossed in the nugget that client and opposing party engaged in some very serious potentially criminal behavior together, we have reached an agreement to settle on the eve of trial with, dare I say, a 50/50 equitable outcome to each party. Upon signing, client's new fiancé comments, "Well if we are just settling for 50/50 what exactly are we paying you for?" Note: This is a client who I charged about 1/3 my normal fee (which is lower than the going market rate to begin with) as a favor to the person who sent her to me.

Potential client calls on the phone to ask some questions about custody because she has a court hearing this week. I advise I can help and she's welcome to make an appointment and, much to her luck, I had a court hearing vacated today and can get her in today. She replies with, "I don't need a consult, I just need a lawyer to explain the procedure to me and advise me of what to do." I explain that's what a consult is. Advise her of the consult fee and that I'd spend an hour with her. She advises me I better be worth it or she isn't paying.

 
Zow said:
Yankee, if you makes you feel better, I just had the following two scenarios take place:

After an expedited but tedious series of consults and settlement discussions, whereby client initially took some pretty ridiculous positions and tossed in the nugget that client and opposing party engaged in some very serious potentially criminal behavior together, we have reached an agreement to settle on the eve of trial with, dare I say, a 50/50 equitable outcome to each party. Upon signing, client's new fiancé comments, "Well if we are just settling for 50/50 what exactly are we paying you for?" Note: This is a client who I charged about 1/3 my normal fee (which is lower than the going market rate to begin with) as a favor to the person who sent her to me.

Potential client calls on the phone to ask some questions about custody because she has a court hearing this week. I advise I can help and she's welcome to make an appointment and, much to her luck, I had a court hearing vacated today and can get her in today. She replies with, "I don't need a consult, I just need a lawyer to explain the procedure to me and advise me of what to do." I explain that's what a consult is. Advise her of the consult fee and that I'd spend an hour with her. She advises me I better be worth it or she isn't paying.
Click to expand...
:lol:

 
Is there a full moon filled with extasy and pop tarts?

I just got a call. I did consult 4 months ago. Person didn't retain me to sue the person he wanted to. But he did proceed to call me 10 times after for more advice. At the last call I told him no more. From this point I need to get paid. Haven't heard from him since. So, he being the crafty I'll show that attorney who he thinks he is type of person gets the person he wanted to sue to call me. Yup. Wanted to know why I think I will be able to sue him because his attorney thinks I'm full of crap and he would really like to know what I'm thinking and why.

Um, no. Sorry. Ethics prohibit. Strategy prohibit. My time prohibits. And frankly **** you that's why! Are you kidding me? Now when someone doesn't want to pay for legal advice they are going to tell the person they want to sue to call me? AYFKM?

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Is there a full moon filled with extasy and pop tarts?

I just got a call. I did consult 4 months ago. Person didn't retain me to sue the person he wanted to. But he did proceed to call me 10 times after for more advice. At the last call I told him no more. From this point I need to get paid. Haven't heard from him since. So, he being the crafty I'll show that attorney who he thinks he is type of person gets the person he wanted to sue to call me. Yup. Wanted to know why I think I will be able to sue him because his attorney thinks I'm full of crap and he would really like to know what I'm thinking and why.

Um, no. Sorry. Ethics prohibit. Strategy prohibit. My time prohibits. And frankly **** you that's why! Are you kidding me? Now when someone doesn't want to pay for legal advice they are going to tell the person they want to sue to call me? AYFKM?
Click to expand...
Do you write disengagement letters after consults where they don't hire you?

I haven't in the past, but am strongly considering doing so now.

 
I will also not be planning a "cornhole," a "retreat," a dinner, a drinking night, or a slumber party with any of you. No offense, of course.

 
Henry Ford said:
I will also not be planning a "cornhole," a "retreat," a dinner, a drinking night, or a slumber party with any of you. No offense, of course.
Click to expand...
You haven't lived until you've corn holed other men* from here.

*And one other woman

 
Zow said:
Yankee, if you makes you feel better, I just had the following two scenarios take place:

After an expedited but tedious series of consults and settlement discussions, whereby client initially took some pretty ridiculous positions and tossed in the nugget that client and opposing party engaged in some very serious potentially criminal behavior together, we have reached an agreement to settle on the eve of trial with, dare I say, a 50/50 equitable outcome to each party. Upon signing, client's new fiancé comments, "Well if we are just settling for 50/50 what exactly are we paying you for?" Note: This is a client who I charged about 1/3 my normal fee (which is lower than the going market rate to begin with) as a favor to the person who sent her to me.

Potential client calls on the phone to ask some questions about custody because she has a court hearing this week. I advise I can help and she's welcome to make an appointment and, much to her luck, I had a court hearing vacated today and can get her in today. She replies with, "I don't need a consult, I just need a lawyer to explain the procedure to me and advise me of what to do." I explain that's what a consult is. Advise her of the consult fee and that I'd spend an hour with her. She advises me I better be worth it or she isn't paying.
Click to expand...
:lmao: :goodposting: Good material here, Woz... After having gone through it once in MA, I have a particular interest in "family law". That said... yeah, my attorney made it very clear from my very first convo that the initial "consult" was a billable event. But after leaving that consult, I realized he gave me valuable advice relevant to my particular situation... not the same boilerplate gobbledy-#### that I had expected on an initial consult. And I bet most clients don't understand the difference... a "free" consult is with regard to the laws in general; a billable consult, whether initial or not, is with regard to one's particular case. A smart lawyer would drive home the distinction to set expectations correctly, whether the client were retained or not.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
A few weeks ago I agreed to take on a client on a flat fee rather than hourly basis. The other side ended up responding favorably to my demand letter. My client asked for money back because I "didn't really do that much." :lmao:

 
Christo said:
A few weeks ago I agreed to take on a client on a flat fee rather than hourly basis. The other side ended up responding favorably to my demand letter. My client asked for money back because I "didn't really do that much." :lmao:
Click to expand...
Had this essentially happen recently on a criminal case. Got the case pre-complaint. Got ahold of the prosecutor immediately, worked out an out-of-court resolution which got my client all the evidence back and will essentially get the case dismissed pending my client behave himself. A phenomenal outcome I didn't think even possible when I took the case.

Client now wants a refund because I never had to go to court.

 
Yankee23Fan said:
Pro bono client proceeds to say that payment cannot be made because he was saving his money to take his family on vacation to a particular island that costs more than what the client had to certify as assets available on an annual basis to qualify for pro-bono assistance. When attorney points this out, client is further perplexed - he shouldn't have to count savings as assets for legal assitance because that is savings. He worked hard to get that.
Click to expand...
This is especially awesome.

 
Maurile Tremblay said:
Yankee23Fan said:
Pro bono client proceeds to say that payment cannot be made because he was saving his money to take his family on vacation to a particular island that costs more than what the client had to certify as assets available on an annual basis to qualify for pro-bono assistance. When attorney points this out, client is further perplexed - he shouldn't have to count savings as assets for legal assitance because that is savings. He worked hard to get that.
Click to expand...
This is especially awesome.
Click to expand...
As a public defender it was always hard to bite my tongue when I came to learn through privileged communication that a person totally lied to the court about his or her indigency. Especially when they made more than I did and wore nicer suits.

 
Divorce lawyers worry about assets being hidden in bitcoins

The Financial Times reports that lawyers fear parties in divorce settlements may start hiding money in bitcoins. This isn't an idle concern: The question of how to hide assets in bitcoin has been popping up in bitcoin discussion forums, the FT writes. In a December thread on forum Bitcoin Talk, for example, users debated how difficult it would be for one man's wife to get half of his bitcoins in a divorce.

"Her lawyer is arguing he must have much more money than he claims to," wrote the commenter who started the thread. "Does the court have right of access to his bitcoin wallet?"

Spouses have long tried to hide assets in divorces; bitcoin could just be a new frontier, says one attorney. "Husbands are becoming more and more creative in terms of what they do to reduce their wealth and the courts are struggling to catch up. It's just like when the internet started and it was difficult for courts to catch up," said Frank Arndt, an attorney at one UK law firm

.

Bitcoin could be a good hiding place for assets in part because it's difficult to trace currency ownership to particular individuals. The currency could also allow a spouse to quickly shift assets to someplace courts can't reach.

"One of the appealing things about bitcoin is its ability to quickly transfer funds to a destination out of US jurisdiction. That makes it difficult to retrieve those funds. A friend or other institution holding the funds outside the country would be harder to get the money back from," wrote Coindesk's Danny Bradbury.

The legal system is already trying to figure out how to respond. Courts in California have asked for bitcoin disclosures in some cases, the FT reports.

Thus far, much of the talk surrounding Bitcoins and divorce seems to be hypothetical, and the FT story largely focuses on the UK. However, the discussion points to a much broader issue: the uncharted legal territory surrounding cryptocurrencies. This could extend far beyond the boundaries of divorces and into other family matters, as one attorney told Coindesk.

"We are going to have family law issues that crop up. We're going to have estate issues, and people dying with substantial amounts of bitcoins. The question becomes, are they disposed of through the estate, or in another manner?"

http://www.vox.com/2014/6/4/5777314/could-bitcoin-start-making-divorces-messier

 
I had a lawyer I know personally just call me to see if I'd represent him against his cable company because his cable isn't working and the world cup starts tomorrow. He wanted to know how much we could get in damages.

 
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