The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (2 Viewers)

[Aerial Assault]

OK - more job negotiation advice needed. I'm negotiating with a small (2 partner, 2 associate) firm. I've never worked in an actual firm before. How much vacation time do lawyers who don't work for the government or themselves typically get?

Always a tricky area. Ask for three weeks with an eye to landing two if they play hardball.

 

[Thorn]

OK - more job negotiation advice needed. I'm negotiating with a small (2 partner, 2 associate) firm. I've never worked in an actual firm before. How much vacation time do lawyers who don't work for the government or themselves typically get?

The small firm I worked at didnt care how much vacation we took, just that out numbers were there and that we were responsible to ensure coverage while we were out.

 

[Aerial Assault]

OK - more job negotiation advice needed. I'm negotiating with a small (2 partner, 2 associate) firm. I've never worked in an actual firm before. How much vacation time do lawyers who don't work for the government or themselves typically get?

The small firm I worked at didnt care how much vacation we took, just that out numbers were there and that we were responsible to ensure coverage while we were out.

Yup, which usually means that you never get any vacation.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Big firms typically give four weeks of vacation, but all those other caveats apply. Vacation at firms can be kind of hypothetical depending on your practice. For a smallish plaintiffs firm, those caveats might not apply because you're not living off the billable hour as much.

 

[thecatch]

OK - more job negotiation advice needed. I'm negotiating with a small (2 partner, 2 associate) firm. I've never worked in an actual firm before. How much vacation time do lawyers who don't work for the government or themselves typically get?

The small firm I worked at didnt care how much vacation we took, just that out numbers were there and that we were responsible to ensure coverage while we were out.

Yup, which usually means that you never get any vacation.

This was my experience at two large firms.

 

[Aerial Assault]

OK - more job negotiation advice needed. I'm negotiating with a small (2 partner, 2 associate) firm. I've never worked in an actual firm before. How much vacation time do lawyers who don't work for the government or themselves typically get?

The small firm I worked at didnt care how much vacation we took, just that out numbers were there and that we were responsible to ensure coverage while we were out.

Yup, which usually means that you never get any vacation.

This was my experience at two large firms.

Yeah? Yeah. "Take whenever you need as long as you get your numbers in" means that whatever number of vacation days they tell you have are meaningless. At a smaller firm like randall's asking about, trying to negotiate for 2-3 solid REAL weeks per year is IMO a good move.

 

[Zow]

OK - more job negotiation advice needed. I'm negotiating with a small (2 partner, 2 associate)

firm. I've never worked in an actual firm before. How much vacation time do lawyers who don't work for the government or themselves typically get?

The small firm I worked at didnt care how much vacation we took, just that out numbers were there and that we were responsible to ensure coverage while we were out.

Same here.

 

[krista4]

OK - more job negotiation advice needed. I'm negotiating with a small (2 partner, 2 associate) firm. I've never worked in an actual firm before. How much vacation time do lawyers who don't work for the government or themselves typically get?

Always a tricky area. Ask for three weeks with an eye to landing two if they play hardball.

While I think three weeks is a good place to land, no, don't "ask for" anything. Never throw out the first gambit; they should make the first offer. But as others have stated, large firms will give four weeks, though I too worked at one large firm that did the "take whatever you want" approach.

 

[Zow]

OK - more job negotiation advice needed. I'm negotiating with a small (2 partner, 2 associate) firm. I've never worked in an actual firm before. How much vacation time do lawyers who don't work for the government or themselves typically get?

The small firm I worked at didnt care how much vacation we took, just that out numbers were there and that we were responsible to ensure coverage while we were out.

Yup, which usually means that you never get any vacation.

This was my experience at two large firms.

Yeah? Yeah. "Take whenever you need as long as you get your numbers in" means that whatever number of vacation days they tell you have are meaningless. At a smaller firm like randall's asking about, trying to negotiate for 2-3 solid REAL weeks per year is IMO a good move.

I'm at the exact same size firm that Randall is talking about. Personally I'd hesitate on trying to negotiate for some set length of time. The reason I say that is that, at least in my experience, vacation is a relatively fluid concept at these firms. As others have stated, it's really not a question of whether you are "allowed" to take vacation but a question of are you practically able to take vacation - i.e. are you producing for the firm and do you have coverage for your cases. I think bartering for a set limit of time may actually hinder the ability to take vacation with short notice.

In my situation, rarely have I been able to take an entire week off at once. But, I've taken plenty of long weekends and, since I'm in the good graces of the partners because I've consistently produced, any vacation, even on short notice, isn't questioned or calculated so long as I have coverage for any hearings I may have. This has been pivotal for the IVF process and I'm grateful that the random days I need to take off aren't calculated against some limit.

 

[thecatch]

OK - more job negotiation advice needed. I'm negotiating with a small (2 partner, 2 associate) firm. I've never worked in an actual firm before. How much vacation time do lawyers who don't work for the government or themselves typically get?

The small firm I worked at didnt care how much vacation we took, just that out numbers were there and that we were responsible to ensure coverage while we were out.

Yup, which usually means that you never get any vacation.

This was my experience at two large firms.

Yeah? Yeah. "Take whenever you need as long as you get your numbers in" means that whatever number of vacation days they tell you have are meaningless. At a smaller firm like randall's asking about, trying to negotiate for 2-3 solid REAL weeks per year is IMO a good move.

Yeah it was a major bummer. Even though taking any time off at a big firm is tough, having designated vacation days would have given me some statistical support for my requests - "I'm taking a week to go to Europe because I have 10 weeks of unused vacation" somehow sounds better than "I haven't taken a vacation in a long time so I'm leaving for a week."

Plus, when you leave a firm with no set vacation days you can't get paid out for said unused vacation. My wife's co worker just left Quinn after a few years and got a five figure payout for unused time off.

 

[the rover]

Well that was fun. Plaintiff's expert hasn't been paid and their lawyer didn't show up to his deposition (probably because he hasn't been paid either) He testified that my client didn't do anything wrong and that the plaintiff is unreasonable.

 

[Thorn]

Well that was fun. Plaintiff's expert hasn't been paid and their lawyer didn't show up to his deposition (probably because he hasn't been paid either) He testified that my client didn't do anything wrong and that the plaintiff is unreasonable.

seems malpracticy to not show up

 

[Aerial Assault]

OK - more job negotiation advice needed. I'm negotiating with a small (2 partner, 2 associate) firm. I've never worked in an actual firm before. How much vacation time do lawyers who don't work for the government or themselves typically get?

The small firm I worked at didnt care how much vacation we took, just that out numbers were there and that we were responsible to ensure coverage while we were out.

Yup, which usually means that you never get any vacation.

This was my experience at two large firms.

Yeah? Yeah. "Take whenever you need as long as you get your numbers in" means that whatever number of vacation days they tell you have are meaningless. At a smaller firm like randall's asking about, trying to negotiate for 2-3 solid REAL weeks per year is IMO a good move.

Yeah it was a major bummer. Even though taking any time off at a big firm is tough, having designated vacation days would have given me some statistical support for my requests - "I'm taking a week to go to Europe because I have 10 weeks of unused vacation" somehow sounds better than "I haven't taken a vacation in a long time so I'm leaving for a week."

Plus, when you leave a firm with no set vacation days you can't get paid out for said unused vacation. My wife's co worker just left Quinn after a few years and got a five figure payout for unused time off.

Right. That's my take exactly.

K4, agree with you on the negotiating and them making the first offer, but I never had a firm offer me vacation; they always left it unsaid or I had to ask. I never worked at a firm large enough (more than about 100 lawyers) to "offer" the phantom "four weeks," but I know plenty of people who have and none of them ever came close to taking the full four unless they were just there to pay off their loans in 2-3 years right after school and didn't care about making numbers to make partner, etc.

I guess I glommed that experience on to Randall's situation or assumed that the firm he's talking to didn't say anything about vacation initially - which most small firms do not.

 

[the rover]

Well that was fun. Plaintiff's expert hasn't been paid and their lawyer didn't show up to his deposition (probably because he hasn't been paid either) He testified that my client didn't do anything wrong and that the plaintiff is unreasonable.

seems malpracticy to not show up

Whole case has been weird. We have trial in 30 days. They have no case. Mediator told them they can't win at trial and they should take a waiver of fees in exchange for dismissal. They agreed, but then wouldn't sign an agreement and then tripled their demand. They didn't take our expert's depo.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

 

[Aerial Assault]

Well that was fun. Plaintiff's expert hasn't been paid and their lawyer didn't show up to his deposition (probably because he hasn't been paid either) He testified that my client didn't do anything wrong and that the plaintiff is unreasonable.

seems malpracticy to not show up

Whole case has been weird. We have trial in 30 days. They have no case. Mediator told them they can't win at trial and they should take a waiver of fees in exchange for dismissal. They agreed, but then wouldn't sign an agreement and then tripled their demand. They didn't take our expert's depo.

Sounds like a likely win

 

[Henry Ford]

Well that was fun. Plaintiff's expert hasn't been paid and their lawyer didn't show up to his deposition (probably because he hasn't been paid either) He testified that my client didn't do anything wrong and that the plaintiff is unreasonable.

seems malpracticy to not show up

Whole case has been weird. We have trial in 30 days. They have no case. Mediator told them they can't win at trial and they should take a waiver of fees in exchange for dismissal. They agreed, but then wouldn't sign an agreement and then tripled their demand. They didn't take our expert's depo.

Bold strategy.

 

[Christo]

 

[Aerial Assault]

Well that was fun. Plaintiff's expert hasn't been paid and their lawyer didn't show up to his deposition (probably because he hasn't been paid either) He testified that my client didn't do anything wrong and that the plaintiff is unreasonable.

seems malpracticy to not show up

Whole case has been weird. We have trial in 30 days. They have no case. Mediator told them they can't win at trial and they should take a waiver of fees in exchange for dismissal. They agreed, but then wouldn't sign an agreement and then tripled their demand. They didn't take our expert's depo.

Sounds like a likely win

For you, I meant

 

[Henry Ford]

Just realized I have a trail in 60 days and my opponent has been sending me letters with "evidence" attached that he thinks he's going to introduce at trial. For instance - the transcript of the deposition of his expert, which he apparently intends to use instead of live testimony. And a bunch of police reports. I don't get it.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Question for you criminal type shysters. Trying to figure out some stuff from information gleaned from the court's website.

Let's say a defendant has 5 charges (all DUI, hit and run, punching an EMT related). Trial was supposed to start a month ago but then yesterday there was a "change of plea" and a jury trial set for Nov 16.

I'm I correct in assuming that jagoff defendant changed the plea to just one of the charges?

 

[Henry Ford]

Question for you criminal type shysters. Trying to figure out some stuff from information gleaned from the court's website.

Let's say a defendant has 5 charges (all DUI, hit and run, punching an EMT related). Trial was supposed to start a month ago but then yesterday there was a "change of plea" and a jury trial set for Nov 16.

I'm I correct in assuming that jagoff defendant changed the plea to just one of the charges?

Or more. But not all.

 

[Henry Ford]

Should be fun, though. "Your honor, my client admits he was drunk, resisted arrest, and that he punched the EMT, but he's unwilling to concede the hit and run or the seatbelt violation."

 

[Aerial Assault]

Question for you criminal type shysters. Trying to figure out some stuff from information gleaned from the court's website.

Let's say a defendant has 5 charges (all DUI, hit and run, punching an EMT related). Trial was supposed to start a month ago but then yesterday there was a "change of plea" and a jury trial set for Nov 16.

I'm I correct in assuming that jagoff defendant changed the plea to just one of the charges?

Could mean there was a plea agreement, but it fell through; I've seen that happen once or twice with a similar docket notation in Los Angeles Superior.

Could also mean that the defendant changed his/her plea to one of the charges, yeah, or four of them, just naturally not all five.

 

[CBusAlex]

Should be fun, though. "Your honor, my client admits he was drunk, resisted arrest, and that he punched the EMT, but he's unwilling to concede the hit and run or the seatbelt violation."

"Yes, my client ran over that child, drove recklessly for another three miles, flipped his car into a ditch, and punched the EMT who tried to rescue him. But he insists he was stone cold sober during all of that."

 

[Henry Ford]

Should be fun, though. "Your honor, my client admits he was drunk, resisted arrest, and that he punched the EMT, but he's unwilling to concede the hit and run or the seatbelt violation."

"Yes, my client ran over that child, drove recklessly for another three miles, flipped his car into a ditch, and punched the EMT who tried to rescue him. But he insists he was stone cold sober during all of that."

Also, your Honor, contrary to the allegations, his vehicle was properly registered.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

 

[Henry Ford]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

The best criminal defense is a criminal offense.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Fight fire with fire.

 

[Thorn]

Well that was fun. Plaintiff's expert hasn't been paid and their lawyer didn't show up to his deposition (probably because he hasn't been paid either) He testified that my client didn't do anything wrong and that the plaintiff is unreasonable.

seems malpracticy to not show up

Whole case has been weird. We have trial in 30 days. They have no case. Mediator told them they can't win at trial and they should take a waiver of fees in exchange for dismissal. They agreed, but then wouldn't sign an agreement and then tripled their demand. They didn't take our expert's depo.

I feel like a last minute motion to withdraw might be coming.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

The best criminal defense is a criminal offense.

Tanner > sorry to hear about your kid and glad he was okay. Assuming this is Kern County, their online system is pretty good for tracking civil matters; I've never had a criminal case there but assume it's about as good for criminal cases as well. However, if you really want to know for sure what's up with the case for any reason you can always go request the file at the courthouse, in case you weren't aware. You can go in person or pay an attorney service to do it.

 

[Rirruto]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

The best criminal defense is a criminal offense.

Tanner > sorry to hear about your kid and glad he was okay. Assuming this is Kern County, their online system is pretty good for tracking civil matters; I've never had a criminal case there but assume it's about as good for criminal cases as well. However, if you really want to know for sure what's up with the case for any reason you can always go request the file at the courthouse, in case you weren't aware. You can go in person or pay an attorney service to do it.

His kid is the victim. He can call the prosecutor and ask them what's up. The prosecutor should be consulting his son and letting him know what's up with all of this anyway.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

The best criminal defense is a criminal offense.

Tanner > sorry to hear about your kid and glad he was okay. Assuming this is Kern County, their online system is pretty good for tracking civil matters; I've never had a criminal case there but assume it's about as good for criminal cases as well. However, if you really want to know for sure what's up with the case for any reason you can always go request the file at the courthouse, in case you weren't aware. You can go in person or pay an attorney service to do it.

His kid is the victim. He can call the prosecutor and ask them what's up. The prosecutor should be consulting his son and letting him know what's up with all of this anyway.

Mkay. Yeah, not really the way it works in most cases as far as the prosecutor calling the son. And I assumed there was a reason why Tanner was checking the status of the file online.

 

[Zow]

Well that was fun. Plaintiff's expert hasn't been paid and their lawyer didn't show up to his deposition (probably because he hasn't been paid either) He testified that my client didn't do anything wrong and that the plaintiff is unreasonable.

seems malpracticy to not show up

Whole case has been weird. We have trial in 30 days. They have no case. Mediator told them they can't win at trial and they should take a waiver of fees in exchange for dismissal. They agreed, but then wouldn't sign an agreement and then tripled their demand. They didn't take our expert's depo.

WTF

 

[Zow]

Question for you criminal type shysters. Trying to figure out some stuff from information gleaned from the court's website.

Let's say a defendant has 5 charges (all DUI, hit and run, punching an EMT related). Trial was supposed to start a month ago but then yesterday there was a "change of plea" and a jury trial set for Nov 16.

I'm I correct in assuming that jagoff defendant changed the plea to just one of the charges?

1. Don't always trust everything that's on a court website. Very likely somebody without legal training being paid not too much money is updating the website.

2. Your assumption isn't off base. It's logistically possible for a defendant to plead to some but not all of the counts included in one case. However, at least in my experience, this is incredibly rare (as in, so rare I felt it necessary to use italics). There are multiple reasons for this. First, generally plea negotiations never work in a fashion to resolve some but not all of the counts. So I doubt there was a plea agreement accepted here. Second, in relation to the first, generally pleading guilty to the court on a charge without the benefit of a plea agreement is really stupid/carries no benefit. Third, since there's no use pleading guilty even on a losing count, one may as well try for the rare shot of trying the case and getting a moronic jury or a green prosecutor who drops the ball on proving the elements. So, straight pleading to some but not all of the charges likely isn't the case. Thinking about it, there are only two situations I could think of where I'd plead a client to some but not all of the counts: 1) Where the state screwed up and either undercharged an offense or didn't properly allege enhancements and I want to quickly plead the guy to attach double jeopardy; or 2) if there's some potential strategy to being able to come across as "reasonable" to a jury by giving the impression that the defendant admits to doing this one offense, but not this/these other(s). That said, you can accomplish this by simply not contesting those charges yet still making the state prove them at trial.

3. Since I strongly doubt that the guy pled to some but not all of the charges I think one of two things happened: 1) either this guy was set for a change of plea and backed out of it (and the court was smart enough to realize the guy is a flake so they didn't vacate his trial date); or 2) he took a plea and the trial day just hasn't been shown as being vacated yet.

FWIW, I do find it odd that the state hasn't updated your son with any of this. Then again, from conversations I had with the Kern County PO I was banging several years ago is sounds like that court/county prosecutor's office is a bit of a mess.

 

[Zow]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

The best criminal defense is a criminal offense.

Tanner > sorry to hear about your kid and glad he was okay. Assuming this is Kern County, their online system is pretty good for tracking civil matters; I've never had a criminal case there but assume it's about as good for criminal cases as well. However, if you really want to know for sure what's up with the case for any reason you can always go request the file at the courthouse, in case you weren't aware. You can go in person or pay an attorney service to do it.

His kid is the victim. He can call the prosecutor and ask them what's up. The prosecutor should be consulting his son and letting him know what's up with all of this anyway.

Mkay. Yeah, not really the way it works in most cases as far as the prosecutor calling the son. And I assumed there was a reason why Tanner was checking the status of the file online.

I think this is state specific. In Arizona, we have a "Victim's Bill of Rights" which actually requires the prosecutor's office to continually update a victim on a case or be open to being sued. My understanding is that many other states have similar statutory requirements.

 

[Zow]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

If true this is likely his most serious charge.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

The best criminal defense is a criminal offense.

Tanner > sorry to hear about your kid and glad he was okay. Assuming this is Kern County, their online system is pretty good for tracking civil matters; I've never had a criminal case there but assume it's about as good for criminal cases as well. However, if you really want to know for sure what's up with the case for any reason you can always go request the file at the courthouse, in case you weren't aware. You can go in person or pay an attorney service to do it.

His kid is the victim. He can call the prosecutor and ask them what's up. The prosecutor should be consulting his son and letting him know what's up with all of this anyway.

Mkay. Yeah, not really the way it works in most cases as far as the prosecutor calling the son. And I assumed there was a reason why Tanner was checking the status of the file online.

I think this is state specific. In Arizona, we have a "Victim's Bill of Rights" which actually requires the prosecutor's office to continually update a victim on a case or be open to being sued. My understanding is that many other states have similar statutory requirements.

It is state-specific. Since I know where Tanner is in terms of state and I'm (mostly) in the same place, I was replying for CA. And you're right in your above about Kern County.

 

[Rirruto]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

The best criminal defense is a criminal offense.

Tanner > sorry to hear about your kid and glad he was okay. Assuming this is Kern County, their online system is pretty good for tracking civil matters; I've never had a criminal case there but assume it's about as good for criminal cases as well. However, if you really want to know for sure what's up with the case for any reason you can always go request the file at the courthouse, in case you weren't aware. You can go in person or pay an attorney service to do it.

His kid is the victim. He can call the prosecutor and ask them what's up. The prosecutor should be consulting his son and letting him know what's up with all of this anyway.

Mkay. Yeah, not really the way it works in most cases as far as the prosecutor calling the son. And I assumed there was a reason why Tanner was checking the status of the file online.

Maybe it's state specific (and even office specific), but I can't imagine not updating a victim about what was going on. That's really, really weird. But in any event, he can call and they will tell him. Even if they aren't good about calling with updates. This is absolutely not something he should pay someone to do. Moreover, his son should receive a subpoena almost immediately if this is going to be a jury trial.

I'll agree with everything Woz has said in his posts about this.

 

[Aerial Assault]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

The best criminal defense is a criminal offense.

Tanner > sorry to hear about your kid and glad he was okay. Assuming this is Kern County, their online system is pretty good for tracking civil matters; I've never had a criminal case there but assume it's about as good for criminal cases as well. However, if you really want to know for sure what's up with the case for any reason you can always go request the file at the courthouse, in case you weren't aware. You can go in person or pay an attorney service to do it.

His kid is the victim. He can call the prosecutor and ask them what's up. The prosecutor should be consulting his son and letting him know what's up with all of this anyway.

Mkay. Yeah, not really the way it works in most cases as far as the prosecutor calling the son. And I assumed there was a reason why Tanner was checking the status of the file online.

Maybe it's state specific (and even office specific), but I can't imagine not updating a victim about what was going on. That's really, really weird. But in any event, he can call and they will tell him. Even if they aren't good about calling with updates. This is absolutely not something he should pay someone to do. Moreover, his son should receive a subpoena almost immediately if this is going to be a jury trial.

I'll agree with everything Woz has said in his posts about this.

I'm admitted in multiple states and have even dealt with the office that I presume is in question, so I think I'm relatively well-qualified to discuss this topic. What you're mentioning is indeed state-specific and jurisdiction-specific, and your comments do not appear to be informed by any particular knowledge of California practice. California's victims' rights legislation is generally known as Marsy's Law (Proposition 9) and is an ambitious, well-intentioned law that does not always result in the practical results that you seem to believe it should.

It also appears that you may have been confused by my indicating that Tanner could obtain the complete file if he was interested. Many Los Angeles County criminal practitioners routinely advise interested parties (including crime victims) to do this, or do it for them as part of their services, in the event that the DDA on the file is difficult to reach, for some reason unhelpful (which I'll say is relatively rare), etc. Obtaining access to the file can be time-consuming and confusing and there are messenger/courier/attorney support services (we call them "attorney services") that can do it for anyone who asks, for a fee that most people who value their own time consider reasonable if they are not indigent. I mentioned that option as an attempt to assist Tanner and answer his question, nothing more, nothing less. Thanks!

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

If I was charged with a crime I would totally hire Woz.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

The best criminal defense is a criminal offense.

Tanner > sorry to hear about your kid and glad he was okay. Assuming this is Kern County, their online system is pretty good for tracking civil matters; I've never had a criminal case there but assume it's about as good for criminal cases as well. However, if you really want to know for sure what's up with the case for any reason you can always go request the file at the courthouse, in case you weren't aware. You can go in person or pay an attorney service to do it.

His kid is the victim. He can call the prosecutor and ask them what's up. The prosecutor should be consulting his son and letting him know what's up with all of this anyway.

Not sure if this is weird or not but my kid has had almost nothing to do with the criminal case. Obviously he gave his statement at the scene but the only other thing was that a few months ago he had to go to the DMV and give another statement to some sort of official there.

He has not be subpoenaed of deposed or whatever.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

And since the defendant's insurance company came through and my son wasn't injured, I'm really just following the case out of curiosity.

Here are the charges

001 M VC 23152(A) ***USE VC 23152(A)>2014***

002 M VC 23152(B) DUI ALCOHOL/0.08 PERCENT

003 M VC 20002(A) HIT AND RUN RESULTING IN PROPERTY DAMAGE

004 M PC 148(A)(1) OBSTRUCT/RESIST/ETC PUBLIC/PEACE OFFICER/EMERGENCY MED TE

005 M PC 241© ASSAULT ON PEACE OFFICER/FIREFIGHTER

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Thanks for the info, Woz and AA

 

[Christo]

The Texas Law Hawk!

 

[Zow]

Thanks.

This is the guy that hit-and-ran my son (while son

was driving my car) back in Feb 2014. My kid

was fine and this dildo's insurance company paid for my repairs. I've just been following his case through the court's website for the last 18 months.

I actually know the details of his arrest because

one of the officers is a friend of a friend. He refused to exit his car (which he had driven home despite destroying his radiator) which was parked in his driveway. After the cops either tazed and/or

pepper sprayed him, he tried to bite and punch an EMT.

Oh and IIRC when the cops ordered him out of

his car he said "I'm not getting out. I'm too drunk."

The best criminal defense is a criminal offense.

Tanner > sorry to hear about your kid and glad he

was okay. Assuming this is Kern County, their online system is pretty good for tracking civil matters; I've never had a criminal case there but assume it's about as good for criminal cases as

well. However, if you really want to know for sure what's up with the case for any reason you can always go request the file at the courthouse, in case you weren't aware. You can go in person or

pay an attorney service to do it.

His kid is the victim. He can call the prosecutor and ask them what's up. The prosecutor should be consulting his son and letting him know what's up with all of this anyway.

Not sure if this is weird or not but my kid has had almost nothing to do with the criminal case. Obviously he gave his statement at the scene but

the only other thing was that a few months ago he had to go to the DMV and give another statement to some sort of official there.

He has not be subpoenaed of deposed or whatever.

I'm not necessarily so concerned over whether he's been subpoenaed (depositions rarely happen in criminal cases, that's more of a civil case thing and there may actually be a statute prohibiting the defense attorney from speaking to a victim) but, at least in Arizona and Minnesota (the two jurisdictions I've worked in and am assuming are somewhat similar to California) the state has some level of obligation to communicate with a victim and, in a case like your son's, at least determine whether criminal restitution needs to be sought. This would especially be the case if the matter if a plea offer has been extended or the case is nearing trial. This communication can be done via email, snail mail, phone call, through a victim advocate, etc. Of course, as has been discussed, different states have different rules and different offices have different. Heck, within the same office there may be attorneys who vary greatly regarding how much they communicate with a victim. For example in my jurisdiction's relatively small office (like 20 lawyers) the prosecutors vary from the extremes of the guy is nearly deifies his victims to the guy who ignores them whenever possible and has the victim advocates office contact them. Your son's case could just be assigned to a prosecutor who has dropped the ball or his office may even have his address off by a number or something.

 

[Zow]

And since the defendant's insurance company came through and my son wasn't injured, I'm really just following the case out of curiosity.

Here are the charges

001 M VC 23152(A) ***USE VC 23152(A)>2014***

002 M VC 23152(B) DUI ALCOHOL/0.08 PERCENT

003 M VC 20002(A) HIT AND RUN

RESULTING IN PROPERTY DAMAGE

004 M PC 148(A)(1) OBSTRUCT/RESIST/ETC PUBLIC/PEACE

OFFICER/EMERGENCY MED TE

005 M PC 241© ASSAULT ON PEACE OFFICER/FIREFIGHTER

I'll defer to any California licensed attorneys, but the complaint against this guy reads that he's been charged with five different misdemeanors (in az it's a felony to hit a cop but my state is significant more harsh than ca). Since a misdemeanor caps at no

more than one year in jail the defendant cannot possibly go to prison and he likely won't lose any civil rights (although I imagine he will incur some sanctions on his drivers license). Also, it's

possible he may not even be eligible for a jury trial (although I think a dui does carry that right in California) if he's not facing more than six months in jail.

That said, your son would definitely be considered the victim of at list the hit in run count.

I find it unlikely that the state would proceed to trial without at least communicating with him. I also find it unlikely that they wouldn't communicate with him to advise him they've

made a plea offer or a change of plea had been set. But, again, California and more specifically kern county could do things differently.

At the very least I think I'm in court tomorrow with a attorney who also practices criminal law in California. I'll ask whether there's a comparable

victims' rights statute/law/rule/policy.

Eta: never mind, aa already covered whether there's a victims rights law in ca. Listen to him.

 

[Zow]

Also, please ignore any typos or grammatical errors and consider none of this to be legal advice because I'm about s bottle of wine deep. Because family law drives you to drink.

 

[Zow]

If I was charged with a crime I would totally hire Woz.

I appreciate that. If you're ever in Arizona and you decide to get a bit rowdy, i'm your guy.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

You guys might want to take it easy on the KC DA's office. Just saying

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kern_County_child_abuse_cases