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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (3 Viewers)

Thorn said:
Pro bono rant:

I occasionally take on a foreclosure defendant pro bono, especially if the lender has a reputation for playing fast and loose.  In late 2014, I take on a client who is a widow who is not obligated on the note, husband dropped dead at 55 with no estate plan or life insurance.  I asked her what her goal was when we first met - she's not taking a credit hit no matter what.  She says she wants to stay in the house long enough so that her daughter will graduate HS before they have to move.  That's like a year and a half out, I tell her that's probably a long shot, but I'll review all their filings and exhibits and defend on what I can, expect another 9-12 months before you gotta move.

Sure enough, bigbank screws up its filings, twice.  Once they had to outright dismiss, the other, they had to amend.  Also, I got a court order that they had to negotiate with her - their CS has been refusing to talk to her since she's not a borrower.  They rejected her offer to take over payments (not enough income), ok fine.  Daughter graduated in June of 2016, at this point it's all gravy IMO.  So in August of last year filings are in order and it looks like she'll be out when they file an MSJ or await a trial date.  I talk to her about this - the end of the line is coming, we've done really well here.

Trial list comes out, we are on for February, I hear from lender - we don't want this house in the winter, will she take $2500 cash and we will let her stay until spring, pick a date in March or April.  Reasonable by them, total win for her.  I call her to tell her of this deal.  Her reaction?  "HOW WILL I MOVE MY THINGS OUT? I HAVE NO WAY TO MOVE AND NOWHERE TO GO! HOW CAN ANYONE THINK I CAN JUST UP AND LEAVE?"
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:lol:

I have almost the exact same client.

 
Walking Boot said:
Random legal question:

I'm watching one of the home improvement shows that my mother has filled her dvr with. This particular episode was new, and aired last week. I notice at the end, the copyright notice in the credits reads "(c) 2018".

Is that legit? Or can I spend the next 12 months selling bootleg dvds and streaming the video online with no legal repercussions? 

Just curious what the deal is with this, as, being in the industry, my company has their own policies on this and I've always been curious about the law in this area. 
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"Where the year date is more than one year later than the year in which publication first occurred, the work is considered to have been published without any notice and is governed by the provisions of section 405." U.S. Code: Title 17: Chapter 4: § 406

405 pretty much lets you off the hook if you're an innocent infringer, if you didn't know the work could feasibly be copyrighted. You DO know, which is why you asked, so, you'd be liable for infringement.

ETA: I know I didn't use proper blue book citations.  : P

 
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Thorn said:
Pro bono rant:

I occasionally take on a foreclosure defendant pro bono, especially if the lender has a reputation for playing fast and loose.  In late 2014, I take on a client who is a widow who is not obligated on the note, husband dropped dead at 55 with no estate plan or life insurance.  I asked her what her goal was when we first met - she's not taking a credit hit no matter what.  She says she wants to stay in the house long enough so that her daughter will graduate HS before they have to move.  That's like a year and a half out, I tell her that's probably a long shot, but I'll review all their filings and exhibits and defend on what I can, expect another 9-12 months before you gotta move.

Sure enough, bigbank screws up its filings, twice.  Once they had to outright dismiss, the other, they had to amend.  Also, I got a court order that they had to negotiate with her - their CS has been refusing to talk to her since she's not a borrower.  They rejected her offer to take over payments (not enough income), ok fine.  Daughter graduated in June of 2016, at this point it's all gravy IMO.  So in August of last year filings are in order and it looks like she'll be out when they file an MSJ or await a trial date.  I talk to her about this - the end of the line is coming, we've done really well here.

Trial list comes out, we are on for February, I hear from lender - we don't want this house in the winter, will she take $2500 cash and we will let her stay until spring, pick a date in March or April.  Reasonable by them, total win for her.  I call her to tell her of this deal.  Her reaction?  "HOW WILL I MOVE MY THINGS OUT? I HAVE NO WAY TO MOVE AND NOWHERE TO GO! HOW CAN ANYONE THINK I CAN JUST UP AND LEAVE?"
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Unreal. I had a client in a foreclosure case that did almost the exact thing. It often seems this is the paradigm for practing law. 

 
Maybe this is better in the app thread, but I'm guessing some here may have better recommendations. Any good standalone timer apps for iPad/iPhone apps that people use for free or cheap? I'm missing timers most since leaving BigLaw, despite still having to keep my time in 6 minute intervals.

 
Started a firm with just me and a partner just under a year and a half ago.  We've been living on hourly billing.  Today we settled our first contingent case.  It's a small one, but we earned $110,000 today.  Now that the pipe is filled, this thing looks like it is going to work.

 
I might quit today. If I have my Pacino moment I will get footballguys into my outburst somehow so when you see it on the news you know it was me.

 
The struggle is real as a new associate. My firm is one of the most laid back places i've heard about, I don't know how you dudes in big law do it.

 
Representing a three member Board of Directors.  One of the three ("Crazy #####" or "CB") has hired independent counsel on a bunch of issues that I've been retained to address.

I wrote the Board an opinion letter regarding a laundry list of their issues and recommendations for fixing them.   CB sends it to her counsel, who's a colleague of mine.  He calls me, we talk, and he agrees with everything.   He then writes to CB providing a brief opinion agreeing with me.  He quotes a fee to do the work which is almost identical to my estimate.   CB forwards it to the Board, who forwards it on to me.

Board votes to authorize me to do the work necessary.  CB votes no, and claims it's because she hired a better attorney who disagrees with everything I recommended. The rest of the Board is baffled, because she forwarded her attorney's email to them.   She then (despite being shown her email) denies that her attorney agreed with my opinions and says that everything I've recommended is unnecessary and too expensive.  She then sends me an insulting email telling me I'm incompetent and I'm lying to the Board just to get them to pay me to do this work, which her attorney says is unnecessary.  In the same email string is the email from her attorney agreeing with my opinion and providing his estimate to do the work.

Good times.

 
RokNRole said:
Here here!

I feel the same way about lawyers as I do about condoms
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Hate the recurring expense but absolutely life the life-changing misery they save you from (assuming you use them properly and don't try things without them)?

 
Question for RE lawyers:

When a lease is silent on the matter, what is the continuing liability of the Landlord subsequent to:

a. Assignment of the Lease to a new Landlord

b. Sale of the property and assignment of the Lease to a new LL

 
Idiot Boxer said:
Question for RE lawyers:

When a lease is silent on the matter, what is the continuing liability of the Landlord subsequent to:

a. Assignment of the Lease to a new Landlord

b. Sale of the property and assignment of the Lease to a new LL
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Commercial or residential?

 
137,000 people listened to today's Ninth Circuit argument. I was a little on edge when I knew a few of my colleagues were watching a livestream of one of my arguments a few weeks ago. I don't know what I would have done if thousands of people were critiquing me on Twitter in real time. It's a new era. 

 
Zow said:
Against a pro se litigant? 
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My first case was against a pro se litigant, who did not respond, or show up for a motion to dismiss - a non-amendable defect in the complaint, and I still almost lost...Judge apparently knew the women and was having people at the court call her up.  We represented a doctor on a med mal defense claim.  Local counsel represented the Hospital in the same suit.  Case was filed in south Georgia, and I had driven down from Atlanta.  Hospital had filed a motion to dismiss, based on not having an affidavit from an expert with the complaint, and the time to amend had passed, and the statute of limitations had now also passed - making the failure a non-amendable defect - nothing plaintiff could do at this point - even if she had shown up for the hearing.  A day after the hospital had filed their brief, I filed a "me too" brief, and the hearing was set.

So, we waited a couple of hours to see if the woman would show up, eventually the judge heard the motion - Local counsel for the Hospital took the lead - an older lawyer, well known in the courthouse, laid everything out.  I was 2 months out of law school - and as I would come to learn, most judges in rural Georgia are not fond of the "big city" lawyers coming down from Atlanta.  So, hospital counsel finishes up, and the judge indicates that he will grant their motion,  and I rise to say that the complaint against the doctor was fatally flawed for the exact same reasons - and could not be cured.  Judge shuffles some papers around, and then pipes up:  "I see you filed you motion 29 days ago, doesn't the plaintiff have 30 days to respond?"  I am sort of fumbling for answers at that point - the court put our motion on the same docket as the Hospital's, but technically the judge is correct.  Though as I pointed out - it was a non-curable defect - there was literally nothing the plaintiff could do to change the outcome, even if she had shown up at the hearing with all of the appropriate affidavits.  Finally the local counsel for the Hospital stepped in and encouraged the judge to dismiss the suit against both parties, and I was saved from losing my first case/hearing against a pro se litigant, who did not even show up to the hearing...

 
In one of those pits of lost time that I can't get out of. Every file is hitting a pressure point at the same time with multiple court appearances just stacking on each other.

I'm going to owe one of my adversaries a nice dinner. I've been sitting on their settlement proposal now for a month, haven't had time to respond and trial is fast approaching. I'm sure they hate me but the time black hole keeps packing me down. Have to get into the office 5am tomorrow just to have a chance to get something done.

And I'm sure someone is mad at me for not being in the office right now too.  But I refuse to sacrifice all family time.... even though everyone is ignoring me at the moment.... I need a drink.

 
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For those of you who might be looking for a change, I have to say that in-house gigs have some major perks.  Like company-paid benefits.  And half the FICA tax. And not having to hustle business, get people to pay you for work you've already done, or TRACK YOUR LIFE IN SIX MINUTE INCREMENTS. Now don't get me wrong, I'm working as many hours as I did before (though they are far more regular) and the gig can be stressful at times. It's also weird having a boss again. But I have to say that the change of pace was exactly what I needed after 18 years of Biglaw practice and I haven't looked back. Not sure how many in house opportunities there are in the markets where you all practice, but if an opening presents itself, I recommend you give it a hard look. 

 
FattyVM said:
Hey you IP guys, you have any tricks with dealing with brand new examiners? I am currently trying to navigate the waters with one who has only had 37 apps, 0 issued, 1 abandoned and 36 pending.  :unsure:

(Bonus Fun: foreign inventors who can't speak english and are trying to explain very advanced microprocessor technologies.) 
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Interview.  Always interview.  Get on the phone and suck up.  Ask for "suggestions" and "guidance" (what do you need me to do to get you to allow this thing?).  And then when you get first claims allows, just file con after con broadening again and again and eventually he won't even look at the thing he'll just be granting you dozens of patents in the family.

Profit.

 
FattyVM said:
The struggle is real as a new associate. My firm is one of the most laid back places i've heard about, I don't know how you dudes in big law do it.
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Just sacrifice your social life, health, hobbies, and portions of your happiness; be a killer at what you do and bill as many hours as you can; be a "can do" guy who never says no and always gets the job done, and done right; do that for 8-10 years and maybe you make partner (partner track is longer now than it was 5 or 10 years ago); then you'll be making nice coin, but you'll also upgrade to a house and mortgage and lifestyle that require said coin, and you'll thereby earn the golden handcuffs that will keep you locked into that job for many years.  Hopefully you come to like it more and more, particularly where you have enough seniority that you don't really have a boss (except all of those clients you deal with, some of whom are cool, and some of whom drive you bonkers), and you have your own book of business and billings, so that you can be one of the cool kids at your firm; at least then the stress will recede somewhat.  Until you have trials each year, each of which will take you away from your family for several weeks to hotel living, and each of which will take years off your life as you find yourself going to trial looking like Obama at the beginning of his first term and leaving the trial looking like Obama leaving the White House in 2017. 

Me?  I'd like to stuff away enough into the coffers to pay for an addition on the home, a modest summer house on the beach to enjoy with my family for many years, retirements, colleges, and weddings, and then disappear.  Of course doing all of that is going to require another decade or two of what I'm doing, and the reality is that I'm so programmed now to be ON and highly functioning 100% of the time that I really don't know how to shut off for a weekend or vacation.  I imagine that'll only get worse after another decade of this.

WELCOME TO THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, HOPE YOU DON'T HATE IT TOO MUCH 

 
Otis said:
Just sacrifice your social life, health, hobbies, and portions of your happiness; be a killer at what you do and bill as many hours as you can; be a "can do" guy who never says no and always gets the job done, and done right; do that for 8-10 years and maybe you make partner (partner track is longer now than it was 5 or 10 years ago); then you'll be making nice coin, but you'll also upgrade to a house and mortgage and lifestyle that require said coin, and you'll thereby earn the golden handcuffs that will keep you locked into that job for many years.  Hopefully you come to like it more and more, particularly where you have enough seniority that you don't really have a boss (except all of those clients you deal with, some of whom are cool, and some of whom drive you bonkers), and you have your own book of business and billings, so that you can be one of the cool kids at your firm; at least then the stress will recede somewhat.  Until you have trials each year, each of which will take you away from your family for several weeks to hotel living, and each of which will take years off your life as you find yourself going to trial looking like Obama at the beginning of his first term and leaving the trial looking like Obama leaving the White House in 2017. 

Me?  I'd like to stuff away enough into the coffers to pay for an addition on the home, a modest summer house on the beach to enjoy with my family for many years, retirements, colleges, and weddings, and then disappear.  Of course doing all of that is going to require another decade or two of what I'm doing, and the reality is that I'm so programmed now to be ON and highly functioning 100% of the time that I really don't know how to shut off for a weekend or vacation.  I imagine that'll only get worse after another decade of this.

WELCOME TO THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, HOPE YOU DON'T HATE IT TOO MUCH 
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:shock: :unsure: :no:  Way to lay it all out there man. But no, I think you have the crux of it right. Head down, do your work. The good thing is I never have to walk into a court room where I'm at. It's all patent prosecution. Although, if I do want to go big, I'll have to go into litigation.

 
Otis said:
Just sacrifice your social life, health, hobbies, and portions of your happiness; be a killer at what you do and bill as many hours as you can; be a "can do" guy who never says no and always gets the job done, and done right; do that for 8-10 years and maybe you make partner (partner track is longer now than it was 5 or 10 years ago); then you'll be making nice coin, but you'll also upgrade to a house and mortgage and lifestyle that require said coin, and you'll thereby earn the golden handcuffs that will keep you locked into that job for many years.  Hopefully you come to like it more and more, particularly where you have enough seniority that you don't really have a boss (except all of those clients you deal with, some of whom are cool, and some of whom drive you bonkers), and you have your own book of business and billings, so that you can be one of the cool kids at your firm; at least then the stress will recede somewhat.  Until you have trials each year, each of which will take you away from your family for several weeks to hotel living, and each of which will take years off your life as you find yourself going to trial looking like Obama at the beginning of his first term and leaving the trial looking like Obama leaving the White House in 2017. 

Me?  I'd like to stuff away enough into the coffers to pay for an addition on the home, a modest summer house on the beach to enjoy with my family for many years, retirements, colleges, and weddings, and then disappear.  Of course doing all of that is going to require another decade or two of what I'm doing, and the reality is that I'm so programmed now to be ON and highly functioning 100% of the time that I really don't know how to shut off for a weekend or vacation.  I imagine that'll only get worse after another decade of this.

WELCOME TO THE REST OF YOUR LIFE, HOPE YOU DON'T HATE IT TOO MUCH 
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While I can't entirely relate to a lot of the BigLaw stressors, this has been the biggest change for me since going into private practice. Couple with a wife and two babies, I can't ####### relax anymore because if I'm not either doing something for work or something to directly benefit the family I feel like I'm doing something wrong.  I found alcohol mixed with doing something very competitive helps, but otherwise I'm stressed out when trying to relax because I constantly feel like there's something productive I should be doing; whether it's making the kids' lunches or prepping for that next next week or whatever. 

 
FattyVM said:
:shock: :unsure: :no:  Way to lay it all out there man. But no, I think you have the crux of it right. Head down, do your work. The good thing is I never have to walk into a court room where I'm at. It's all patent prosecution. Although, if I do want to go big, I'll have to go into litigation.
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I do a mix, the vast majority being litigation, and while litigation is the more sexy and more profitable work, I often think the prosecution guys have it right. Much less stress, less travel, more predicability, etc.  Every year I threaten to switch to a full prosecution practice; maybe even start my own little shop and write patents from a beach house. But I yam what I yam. 

 
Otis said:
I do a mix, the vast majority being litigation, and while litigation is the more sexy and more profitable work, I often think the prosecution guys have it right. Much less stress, less travel, more predicability, etc.  Every year I threaten to switch to a full prosecution practice; maybe even start my own little shop and write patents from a beach house. But I yam what I yam. 
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I do trademark work and went to a local IP roundtable a while back.  By far, the most congenial guys in the entire room were the solo patent attorneys.  

 
bigbottom said:
For those of you who might be looking for a change, I have to say that in-house gigs have some major perks.  Like company-paid benefits.  And half the FICA tax. And not having to hustle business, get people to pay you for work you've already done, or TRACK YOUR LIFE IN SIX MINUTE INCREMENTS. Now don't get me wrong, I'm working as many hours as I did before (though they are far more regular) and the gig can be stressful at times. It's also weird having a boss again. But I have to say that the change of pace was exactly what I needed after 18 years of Biglaw practice and I haven't looked back. Not sure how many in house opportunities there are in the markets where you all practice, but if an opening presents itself, I recommend you give it a hard look. 
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I am glad it's working out for you.  Two other acquaintances of mine have gone in-house.  Unfortunately they both ended up at places with a culture that viewed regulation and legal ethics as sort of a voluntary thing.  Which can be a tough situation for a lawyer to be in. 

 
The managing partners of the small plaintiff firm I work for called me in for a meeting today and informed me they'll be making me an offer this summer for a contract that calls for a gradual transfer of the entire firm to me, as managing partner and then as full owner.  Said I'm a son to them, which should tell you how old they are. 

 
Henry Ford said:
The managing partners of the small plaintiff firm I work for called me in for a meeting today and informed me they'll be making me an offer this summer for a contract that calls for a gradual transfer of the entire firm to me, as managing partner and then as full owner.  Said I'm a son to them, which should tell you how old they are. 
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Henry, that's awesome, congrats, and they sound like great people. 

 
My Achilles heel is that I'm terrible at getting clients. Truly awful.  I hate people so much.  But I love the law.  So I make them a #### ton of money on their clients and they'd like to extend that relationship of getting money from my work as long as possible into retirement.  Still, it will mean more money and if I can figure out how to make things work in my favor for getting clients, potentially a big future.  The firm has a lot of long-standing referring lawyers who know what having me on board in a case is worth.

 
Sounds like its time to bring on a personable young associate.  A networker with people skills.  The granddaughter perhaps of a well liked local judge.  Someone with a family name that speaks of integrity.  Someone to bring in clients.

 
Ditkaless Wonders said:
Sounds like its time to bring on a personable young associate.  A networker with people skills.  The granddaughter perhaps of a well liked local judge.  Someone with a family name that speaks of integrity.  Someone to bring in clients.
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Agreed.  Sad truth: I hate those people most of all.

 
Since I was a named to SuperLawyers for the first time a few years ago I've been getting calls from the free profile.  Considering paying for an upgraded ad with them if this works out. Anyone have any experience?

 
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Henry Ford said:
Since I was a named to SuperLawyers for the first time a few years ago I've been getting calls from the free profile.  Considering paying for an upgraded ad with them if this works out. Anyone have any experience?
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I have a friend who is a successful plaintiff's lawyer and marketing/advertising is a huge part of their success (two man firm).  I would think an upgraded SuperLawyers ad is a no brainer for you. 

 
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I'm a young lawyer under 30 who has only been practicing a few years. After a decent time spent actually looking for my first real job I was able to land a position as a residential real estate attorney and after about two years doing that I'm moving on to the next stage of my career. Got a job as an attorney for a large wireless field company for land use. I liked where I was at with residential real estate but found I really was not learning much or practicing law as much as you are just kind of showing up for closings and getting people to sign documents. Also I was beginning to get a little worried about job security with basically the refinance market dead right now. So we'll see if I made the right decision, I believe I did. A little more pay, shorter commute, no more driving 20K miles a year to closings and hopefully some valuable experience in commercial law which I think would be more valuable than residential real estate. 

 
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My poor wife wrote an amicus brief for the G.G. case in the Supreme Court.  She was on the cover and everything.  And of course they kicked the case back down to the Fourth Circuit (which we expected, but still kind of a bummer.

 
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