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The Lawyer Thread Where We Stop Ruining Other Threads (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Henry Ford
- Start date
apalmer
Footballguy
All PA courts shut down except for a list of "emergency" proceedings (PFA, child emergencies, etc.). On top of that, the Governor just ordered all non-life sustaining businesses shut down effective tomorrow. Legal Services are not on the "can stay open" list.
I picked the right time to retire.
I picked the right time to retire.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
I don’t even know what that means. Are hotels life sustaining? What happens to people staying in hotels if they’re deemed not to be? Out on the street? What about apartment complexes? Are the workers there going in?
I deal with asbestos abatement projects. An ongoing project that suddenly has to stop for an undetermined amount of time presents a real hazard as the engineering controls could start to fail if nobody is maintaining them. But the projects aren’t life sustaining.
Weird times.
ETA: Nevermind, looks like they’ve put out a fairly comprehensive list. Still some gray areas, but pretty thorough. Gonna be wild (and I’m sure lots of lawyers being consulted to give guidance on what activities fall into what categories, like does running mold clearance samples fall under remediation activities which are permitted? Who knows!) Fun.
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CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
What does it mean to be shut down? If the entire firm is WFH, I assume it could continue to provide services to clients?
apalmer
Footballguy
Presumably, as long as there is no face-to-face. The actual order includes language that: "No person or entity shall operate a place of business in the Commonwealth that is not a life sustaining business regardless of whether the business is open to members of the public. This prohibition does not apply to virtual or telework operations (e.g., work from home), so long as social distancing and other mitigation measures are followed in such operations."
ETA: Link to Order and Link to List of Businesses
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CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
My office is still open, but 80% are working from home. Our office is a stand-alone house, an old mansion that we converted to office space last year. I’m on the third/top floor. I worked a full day in the office yesterday and never saw anyone else, conferred with colleagues by phone or messaging all day, packed a lunch and have a tea kettle in my office. Only left my office to pee and to leave at the end of the day. For me, it’s better than trying to work from home, but I’m prepared for that if needed.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
The case backlog when this is done is going to be …….. fun.
Zow
Footballguy
I'm re-arranging and looking at my trial calendar this very moment. It's going to be ####### awful. But, that's mainly because with everything getting kicked down the line I'll likely be unable to take on as much new work as I normally would in the spring. so, the real hurt of it all will be financial.
I did send out two emails this morning to opposing counsel essentially begging to try to find new resolutions to cases to prevent two week-long trials...
David Lat, most notably founder of Above the Law and an otherwise apparently healthy 44 year old, is in critical condition. :(
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Angry Beavers
Footballguy
Ohio - law firms are essential businesses - but not in PA 
OMG, he will forever be a legend. I watched every minute of it after work as it was going on. Schiff is what I aspire to be every time I step in a courtroom.
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Essential in Illinois. But Cook County courthouses closed till 4/16 except for emergencies. I'm going nuts here at home. Having to put all of my clients off till they open back up again.Ohio - law firms are essential businesses - but not in PA
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I had planned on being in DC this week for my wife's Spring Break so it's been slow. But I expect (hope) next week to be busy.
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Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
Our state bar told us....Ohio - law firms are essential businesses - but not in PA
Stay the eff home.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Now we have courts conducting hearings via Zoom. The question is, do I have to put on a collared shirt for a status conference? Can I participate but by audio only?
Otis
Footballguy
Work is slow. That’s ungood.
One client owes a lot of money and is dodging me. That’s ungood. That was my biggest matter generated last year, and as this goes south and the relationship falls apart, I have nothing meaningful to replace it with. That’s ungood.
Law firm jobs are the suck. It’s a job where you beg to get hired for the job and the job just entails begging others to hire you for jobs. For your whole life. And it’s all measured by hours.
I would love just a regular job where there is lots of work they need me to do, and I just do it. I don’t have to beg for work, it’s just there waiting to be done. And I don’t have to fuxking count my hours anymore.
Maddening, the whole damn thing.
One client owes a lot of money and is dodging me. That’s ungood. That was my biggest matter generated last year, and as this goes south and the relationship falls apart, I have nothing meaningful to replace it with. That’s ungood.
Law firm jobs are the suck. It’s a job where you beg to get hired for the job and the job just entails begging others to hire you for jobs. For your whole life. And it’s all measured by hours.
I would love just a regular job where there is lots of work they need me to do, and I just do it. I don’t have to beg for work, it’s just there waiting to be done. And I don’t have to fuxking count my hours anymore.
Maddening, the whole damn thing.
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pricklypete
Footballguy
Please tell me a regular job that does this.
Unless you are a welder, electrician, plumber, etc., what are you going to do to accomplish this goal?
I'm a loan officer now. Used to run a metal fabricating company before. I'm in the same boat as you chasing clients (but also paying my lawyer).
It's the nature of the beast. Quit yer #####in'.
OrtonToOlsen
Footballguy
I had a 10 minute video chat with my fellow department members, our Dean, and our principal.
Then I did about 4 solid hours of work (posting assignments, creating assignments, sending and answering emails).
Aside from posting two more assignments Wed and Fri and answering emails I did all my work for the week today.
Hey
ETA sorry...somehow thought this was a general COVID thread.
Also, I’m a tool.
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Zow
Footballguy
Yeah it’s the worst part of the job. I can handle the poor decision making, the unreasonable demands, and the unfair target of blame if things don’t go well. But man it sucks not getting paid on it or having to chase the money down.
Had a situation recently where a high maintenance client’s significant other paid the retainer and first significant bill (I didn’t even know it at the time - the bill can be paid online). I did the work and then some. Several months later the SO contested it and the SO’s credit card company sided with the SO. In all I did about 15k worth of work and the firm got 1k (which barely covered filing fees and other overheard). And I’m paid directly via fee sharing. Which means I did hours of work without compensation. And this happened right at the start of this covid stuff so the work isn’t there to try to bust out more hours to try to make up some of that loss.
Fun times.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Lat is seemingly recovered. 6 days on a ventilator, extubated, still in the hospital but completely off oxygen now and expects to be discharged soon.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Raise your hand if you've done an oral argument via Zoom wearing jacket/tie up top and gym shorts down below. 
Zow
Footballguy
Raise your hand if you've done an oral argument via Zoom wearing jacket/tie up top and gym shorts down below.
I did an evidentiary hearing this past Fridayby phone. Went surprisingly better than I expected.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
Yes. Lawyers, clients/parties, and the judge all calling from separate locations (we agreed to waive a formal court reporter and just use the court's audio system for creating the record). Much of pre-hearing preparation with the client was simply to go over and explain the exhibit markings and list with correspondence numbers and to practice how I needed my client to reference his corresponding copies of the exhibits. Thankfully, the judge was pretty lenient and opposing counsel, much to her credit, was very reasonable (we called each other beforehand to see what we could stipulate to) and did not hold each other to strict foundational standards during the hearing.
We decided to proceed forward because the focus of the hearing was pretty limited, the issue was time-sensitive, and the judge had heard testimony fromthe parties before so I wasn't as concerned about the credibility issue. But, it's that latter issue that I'm going to start having a problem with if we start making these sort of hearings commonplace. I can adjust my prep and deal with it in the likely event I come across a more unreasonable opposing counsel, but there's just no substitute for a person sitting a few feet away from the finder of fact while being subjected to cross-examination for determining one's credibility.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
lmao.Raise your hand if you've done an oral argument via Zoom wearing jacket/tie up top and gym shorts down below.
Not yet. But I have a motion hearing this week that might work out that way.
I have a bankruptcy hearing next week where everyone involved including my client will be in separate locations. That should be.....awesome.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
My partner and I did a zoom meeting last week so we could practice and work on the presentation. We were jokingly talking about putting different props behind us depending on who our judge is. I think most kids, who are constantly taking pictures of themselves, know this instinctively, but we learned that you look better if the camera is a bit higher or at least level with your face/head, rather than looking up at your face from below. One other thing - when you are speaking, try to look at the camera on your monitor rather than at the judge's face on your screen. If you want to simulate in-person eye-contact, you need to stare right at that little camera when speaking, or, more importantly, when the judge is speaking.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
My divorce lawyer charged me for 30 minutes for an e-mail that couldn't have taken more than about 4 minutes. Is she trying to say that she doesn't want these e-mails? It was a fairly quick question (that my wife wanted me to ask). I don't send many e-mails, but I feel like she initially did not bill for these types of things, then maybe billed at 15 minutes, now this one at 30.
Zow
Footballguy
Did you check your fee agreement? I ask that because sometimes the agreements may have a minimum amount per task portion (for example, in my fee agreements there's a minimum .5 for any hearing, a minimum 1 hr. for preparation of a pleading, etc.). Or, it's also quite possible that there was more to the task than you realize. Also, while the bold isn't how I would do it, maybe what she is doing is not charging you for a number of emails then hitting them all with one .5 email charge?
As a family law practitioner billing for emails is tough. I prefer emails to phone calls so I don't want to discourage them. But, I have a few clients that will just blow up my email. And since my most precious resource is my time, and even if the easier email is likely to take about six minutes (I have to read it, probably check something in the file, respond, then document the email) I'm likely billing .1 per email (unless it's a flurry then I'll try to cut the client a break and do total time or if it truly is a super quick email calling for a super brief response I won't bill it). Nonetheless, the numerous .1 for emails (which is ~$30/per) seems to upset clients when they get their bills more than most other biling issues. I haven't really figured out a fair solution to it because, again, a lot of my time is spent reviewing and responding to emails and I cannot not financially account for that time.
-fish-
Footballguy
If a brief email requires a quick response, I either won't bill it or will bill the exchange at .1 (six minutes). If your question involved having to go back and review the file or perform any research, you get billed for that time. So it is possible that a one line email could be 30 minutes of time if the answer requires some digging around.
Or the cynical side of me says that your lawyer's caseload is getting light and she's going to bill every single minute she can at this point.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
there was no research. she basically asked me a bunch of questions back out what I was asking about. I guess it's possible that she had to go back and review my file, but either way, seemed kind of weird.
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
you guys can just pm your bills for .5 hours.
Zow
Footballguy
Or, at the very least, not give out "breaks" like she may have in the past where business wasn't an issue.
Zow
Footballguy
If things keep going the way they are for the next month or so I may need to.
But, for now, just try not to snipe me in the greatest sports draft...
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
I had a status call on a case where we have a jury trial in June, which we obviously knew was not going to happen. The judge gave a convincing statement as to why he is not expecting to hold any jury trials until summer of 2021. Paraphrasing, there won't be any jury trial until a vaccine exists, and that is highly unlikely to happen before Spring of '21. He said he'd give us a date this fall/winter, but the lawyers all agreed that's so unlikely to happen, we decided it would be better to get on his summer '21 calendar now because its going to be a very busy time once things open back up.
With low interest rates, I think insurance companies are more willing to settle. But with no trial dates on the calendar, incentive is low.
With low interest rates, I think insurance companies are more willing to settle. But with no trial dates on the calendar, incentive is low.
Zow
Footballguy
The system is going to hault. And then, when it resumes, we're going to be working 80 hrs./week.
I did an in-person bench trial on Monday. I wasn't happy about it. Judge wouldn't relax the foundational rules for exhibits and opposing party wouldn't stipulate. I started off wearing a mask but it was too uncomfortable and my already relatively soft-spoken voice wasn't carrying.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
My wife's family has a legal issue related to Covid-19. Every year they rent a beach house in the Outer Banks, NC. My wife's parents live in Virginia and are 84 and 94. This years contract was signed last year, and the rental is to begin May 24 and a down payment has been paid. The balance for the second week is due April 24. Dare County is currently closed to all tourists. I can't imagine they'll want to open everything up and have people flocking there from Boston, NY, Chicago, etc., like our family, but it is a real possibility. The rental company says there is no refunds and that they must pay the second payment or be in breach of the lease.
They aren't really sure what to do here. Virginia is under shelter in place until mid June, and even if they weren't, nobody in the family wants the 90 year old parents traveling anywhere any time soon. The sunk costs so far is $4k with another $4k due this week. They are leaning to not paying the second half, but aren't sure what that will mean legally. Is a "contract lawyer" the best person to consult in regards to this? Thanks.
They aren't really sure what to do here. Virginia is under shelter in place until mid June, and even if they weren't, nobody in the family wants the 90 year old parents traveling anywhere any time soon. The sunk costs so far is $4k with another $4k due this week. They are leaning to not paying the second half, but aren't sure what that will mean legally. Is a "contract lawyer" the best person to consult in regards to this? Thanks.
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CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
The first thing to do is get a copy of the contract and read it. You don't need a lawyer for this. Look for a clause named "Force Majeure" - its probably a 50/50 chance there will be one in a contract like this. That may give you an out. There may be other contract clauses that give you an out. Apart from the contract language, and certainly not wanting to give legal advice in this context, if I had to give off-the-cuff advice to a client in this situation I would tell them to not pay the second installment and demand a refund. There is a general contractual concept regarding impossibility that I think would apply in this case. It is legally impossible for them to deliver what they agreed to provide under current circumstances. I have several clients in somewhat similar circumstances right now and I'm advising them, as a general proposition, its going to be very difficult to enforce contractual obligations that involve things like travelling and breaking shelter-in-place orders.
ericttspikes
Footballguy
Zow
Footballguy
While it's not my practice area, a significant division of the attorneys in my office handle contract work and represent commercial tenants/lessees (as well as some commercial lessors). This issue has been the primary topic of our regular officewide collaboration meetings. The bold is the argument being made for tenants who just want out of the lease (it sounds like the impact of the CARES Act and just general sensibility is thankfully generally prevailing in situations where neither party wants to substantially breach or terminate the lease but instead just needs some understandable temporary relief on some of the financial terms). Push back has been pretty aggressive (and arguably harsh) with the argument that the commercial lessor hasn't made the decision to implement the restrictions and, in say a restaurant example, the lessor is providing what they're contractually bound to - a location set up to be a restaurant.
I haven't seen any actual litigation results yet, but it's a curious issue.
Yankee23Fan
Fair Tax!
I agree with CM for the most part and would look forward to getting the guys that you are speaking about (pushing back) in a courtroom when this is all over. Especially under New Jersey law.Zow said:
Zow
Footballguy
Again, not my area (I've done a number of evictions representing landlords but that's mainly just doing the actual representation for the landlords where it's almost always a simple nonpayment factual issue), but as I understand it AZ is a bit more favorable to landlords/lessors than most states. So, I'm not so sure how this plays out in my jurisdiction. Honestly some help from the other two branches would be useful at this point I think.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
One issue is that both CARES and many state emergency orders directly address commercial and residential leases, so those are a somewhat different animal at this time as contrasted with general commercial contracts. I assume a one-off vacation rental would not be impacted by those emergency orders/statutes, but that would also be something to consider.Zow said:
RC94
Footballguy
I was hoping you guys can give me some unemployment insurance advice. I lost my job and applied for unemployment in NJ back in March, but it still hasn't been processed. I've tried multiple times in multiple ways to get in touch with someone to see what's going on with it, but you can't get in touch with anyone. Even an email I sent was replied to with a form letter that didn't address my email. It's been almost 6 weeks now so I'm getting concerned that it's been forgotten. I'm also concerned that they might reject it and tell me to apply in NY instead since my company is based in NY and my office was there. I live in NJ and worked from home regularly, so I applied in NJ.
If they reject my application and I have to start over in NY after that, I will lose a ton more time. I have already lost so much time and money with this, I'm starting to think about applying in NY just to get it started now rather than wait even longer. I would never take money from both states and would cancel whichever comes back to me last, but is it against the law to apply in both states?
If they reject my application and I have to start over in NY after that, I will lose a ton more time. I have already lost so much time and money with this, I'm starting to think about applying in NY just to get it started now rather than wait even longer. I would never take money from both states and would cancel whichever comes back to me last, but is it against the law to apply in both states?
3 hour lunch
Footballguy
Any advice on not settling an estate? My mom died last week (husband died last year) and she basically had nothing outside of her town house which she owed nearly as much as it was worth, and she left it in bad shape. Likely a small amount in the bank and a bunch of debt. If we do “nothing” I know we forfeit any assets but in this case is there any reason to go through probate or whatever? Hiring someone seems like a waste, as does getting the house all cleaned up, etc.
shadrap
Footballguy
confirm her assets & debts, then decide if to open a probate. a simple probate can be $1500 to $3000 unless you are East coast or California. Open a probate with you as Personal Rep.(if no family member disagrees), deed all assets to heirs. close probate. simple probate takes about 6 months.
I'm not an attorney.
I'm not an attorney.
