The NFL is Horrible This Year (4 Viewers)

[steelcityman]

As I sat around Sunday, I was thinking how bad the teams are, and games. Its really boring TBH. Players are clowns or just not good, all penalties for tackles/roughing, commercials, refs, announcers are annoying, just a bad product that rests on the money they made/make. If not for fantasy and gambling, would anyone care about any game other than their home city/area team? If you live in Nebraska, do you care about NFL? But, i'll still watch it, nothing else worth watching. I will be switching to cheering for whoever plays my Steelers, so go COLTS!!!

 

[Zeppelin]

I do not play fantasy anymore, I don't bet on sports at all, and I still love watching football all day Sunday, plus every other day there are games.

Based on this thread, I'm on an island here.

 

[wlwiles]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

It's generally centered around two teams in particular, and some weeks its VERY hard to ignore

 

[DeaLerZ]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

3 refs were "Fired" in April of this year due to several controversial calls for the chiefs in 2024. Although, they technically weren't "Fired". They were allowed to transition to college to continue.

In the 2024 season, the Chiefs won all three games in which these officials were present

I tend to agree that the NFL had a vested interest in making sure the chiefs made it to the Superbowl again because of Taylor Swift/Kelce. Having Swift there adds a different group of viewers, and provides opportunities for sponsers, and Ads that make boatloads of money. Anyone who knows anything about football could tell you that last year the Chiefs were not a good team. The fact that they got demolished in the superbowl felt like the NFL saving face for all the negative press they were getting about the Chiefs games feeling "rigged" last year.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'm positive I haven't watched an entire Miami Dolphins game from the opening kick to the final snap
I go directly to the YouTube Ticket and RedZone, sometimes I'll switch over to the local Miami feed but mostly they're not worth watching
And I still watch wall to wall, it's too much, sometimes I'll fade on the Sunday Night game, depends on when the first brewski gets popped

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

Honestly it hasn’t been the same for me since the Saints Rams NFCCG. Felt like my love for the game left my body as I sat in my seat with a few thousand others just similarly stunned.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

I would suggest that the refs only seem (more) lousy due to all the modern technology

85 different angles, super slo-mo, frame-by-frame, protecting the QB, etc gives everyone the ability to 2nd guess every single play

Plus the modernized rules are overly-complicated and subjective (i.e. two feet down, make a football move, survive the ground, complete the process, etc)

It’s pretty mind numbing. The thing with the chip in the ball. If they can measure after they mark it they can measure while the player carries the ball.

 

[JohnnyU]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

Honestly it hasn’t been the same for me since tge Saints Rams NFCCG. Felt like my love for the game left my body as I sat in my seat with a few thousand others just similarly stunned.

Yes, that one stung, even non-Saints fans.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

3 refs were "Fired" in April of this year due to several controversial calls for the chiefs in 2024. Although, they technically weren't "Fired". They were allowed to transition to college to continue.

In the 2024 season, the Chiefs won all three games in which these officials were present

I tend to agree that the NFL had a vested interest in making sure the chiefs made it to the Superbowl again because of Taylor Swift/Kelce. Having Swift there adds a different group of viewers, and provides opportunities for sponsers, and Ads that make boatloads of money. Anyone who knows anything about football could tell you that last year the Chiefs were not a good team. The fact that they got demolished in the superbowl felt like the NFL saving face for all the negative press they were getting about the Chiefs games feeling "rigged" last year.

I have for a long time pushed back on the rigging/favoritism stuff. I just can’t anymore, it’s gone on too long & it’s happened & is happening too often. Sunday I saw the Bucs make a scoop score vs my Saints in the Dome. The game would’ve been effectively over & everyone knew it. Nope, inadvertent whistle. Gave the ball back to the Saints. Keep your TVs on everyone! The rule that justified that had been changed. The Saints players never stopped hustling to make the tackle. No one heard a whistle. On the replay the ball carrier wasn’t close to down. The announcers were mystified, they didn’t hear a whistle either. Bizarre.

 

[DeaLerZ]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

Honestly it hasn’t been the same for me since tge Saints Rams NFCCG. Felt like my love for the game left my body as I sat in my seat with a few thousand others just similarly stunned.

Yes, that one stung, even non-Saints fans.

Yeah for real. That was one of the worst ... but remember that was during Covid and the Superbowl was being played in LA that year.

"The game was played on February 13, 2022, at SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, California, the home stadium of the Rams, marking the second consecutive and second overall Super Bowl with a team playing and winning in its home stadium."

Back to back Superbowls during Covid where the home team took home the trophy. First the Bucs at home, than the Rams. Having a team host the superbowl at home ensures that the seats are filled when a lot of people aren't traveling. This is after never in the history of the NFL did a team get to play a Superbowl in their home field.

 

[JohnnyU]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

Honestly it hasn’t been the same for me since tge Saints Rams NFCCG. Felt like my love for the game left my body as I sat in my seat with a few thousand others just similarly stunned.

Yes, that one stung, even non-Saints fans.

Yeah for real. That was one of the worst ... but remember that was during Covid and the Superbowl was being played in LA that year.

"The game was played on February 13, 2022, at SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, California, the home stadium of the Rams, marking the second consecutive and second overall Super Bowl with a team playing and winning in its home stadium."

Back to back Superbowls during Covid where the home team took home the trophy. First the Bucs at home, than the Rams. Having a team host the superbowl at home ensures that the seats are filled when a lot of people aren't traveling. This is after never in the history of the NFL did a team get to play a Superbowl in their home field.

Super Bowl stadium is filled no matter what. Covid or not.

 

[BassNBrew]

LOL at the revisionist history. Had to go check today's bankruptcy filings since no one is watching the NFL. Didn't see anything but ran across this....

Key Viewership Stats​

• The Super Bowl LIX (Feb 2025) averaged ~127.7 million viewers in the U.S., making it the most-watched U.S. telecast ever. Axios+2Wikipedia+2
• Through Week 5 of the 2025 regular season, NFL games averaged ~18.58 million viewers per game, which is up ~8% versus 2024 and ~9% versus 2023. TV Tech+1
• The 2025 NFL Draft averaged ~7.5 million viewers across all networks and digital platforms over the three-day event, representing a ~27% increase year-over-year. NFL.com+2Awful Announcing+2
• Pre-season games telecast on NFL Network averaged ~2.1 million viewers in a recent week, up ~44% vs. 2024. Fast Philly Sports

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

The NFL has become like the NBA. First two minutes, last two minutes. (Are all that’s worth watching).

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

LOL at the revisionist history. Had to go check today's bankruptcy filings since no one is watching the NFL. Didn't see anything but ran across this....

Key Viewership Stats​

• The Super Bowl LIX (Feb 2025) averaged ~127.7 million viewers in the U.S., making it the most-watched U.S. telecast ever. Axios+2Wikipedia+2
• Through Week 5 of the 2025 regular season, NFL games averaged ~18.58 million viewers per game, which is up ~8% versus 2024 and ~9% versus 2023. TV Tech+1
• The 2025 NFL Draft averaged ~7.5 million viewers across all networks and digital platforms over the three-day event, representing a ~27% increase year-over-year. NFL.com+2Awful Announcing+2
• Pre-season games telecast on NFL Network averaged ~2.1 million viewers in a recent week, up ~44% vs. 2024. Fast Philly Sports

It’s almost as if there are more people in the world getting access to these awful games and not that the sport is growing in popularity.

 

[BassNBrew]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

Honestly it hasn’t been the same for me since tge Saints Rams NFCCG. Felt like my love for the game left my body as I sat in my seat with a few thousand others just similarly stunned.

Yes, that one stung, even non-Saints fans.

Yeah for real. That was one of the worst ... but remember that was during Covid and the Superbowl was being played in LA that year.

"The game was played on February 13, 2022, at SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, California, the home stadium of the Rams, marking the second consecutive and second overall Super Bowl with a team playing and winning in its home stadium."

Back to back Superbowls during Covid where the home team took home the trophy. First the Bucs at home, than the Rams. Having a team host the superbowl at home ensures that the seats are filled when a lot of people aren't traveling. This is after never in the history of the NFL did a team get to play a Superbowl in their home field.

Super Bowl stadium is filled no matter what. Covid or not.

This is the revisionist history I was referring to. If people were travelling to brings their relatives tidings of infection and a good cheer, they certainly weren't slowing down for a Super Bowl.

 

[BassNBrew]

LOL at the revisionist history. Had to go check today's bankruptcy filings since no one is watching the NFL. Didn't see anything but ran across this....

Key Viewership Stats​

• The Super Bowl LIX (Feb 2025) averaged ~127.7 million viewers in the U.S., making it the most-watched U.S. telecast ever. Axios+2Wikipedia+2
• Through Week 5 of the 2025 regular season, NFL games averaged ~18.58 million viewers per game, which is up ~8% versus 2024 and ~9% versus 2023. TV Tech+1
• The 2025 NFL Draft averaged ~7.5 million viewers across all networks and digital platforms over the three-day event, representing a ~27% increase year-over-year. NFL.com+2Awful Announcing+2
• Pre-season games telecast on NFL Network averaged ~2.1 million viewers in a recent week, up ~44% vs. 2024. Fast Philly Sports

It’s almost as if there are more people in the world getting access to these awful games and not that the sport is growing in popularity.

So what's new this year? Prime, ESPN, Youtube, Peacock? Maybe I misunderstood you and the NFL's push to globalize that we all hate is paying huge dividends.

 

[BassNBrew]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

Honestly it hasn’t been the same for me since the Saints Rams NFCCG. Felt like my love for the game left my body as I sat in my seat with a few thousand others just similarly stunned.

Nothing personal but know exactly how you feel. From the year prior year when the Saints were gifted a win...

1.​

• Situation: 2nd quarter, Saints deep in their own territory.
• Call: Peppers was flagged for roughing Drew Brees after a quick release.
• Why it drew attention: Replays showed only light contact, and many fans (even some neutral analysts) felt it was ticky-tack for a playoff game. The 15 yards kept the drive alive and helped flip field position — the Saints later scored.

2.​

• Situation: 4th quarter, around 9 minutes left, Saints led 24-19.
• What happened: Cam Newton was hit under the chin by Saints defensive tackle David Onyemata, appearing woozy and briefly leaving the game.
• No flag was thrown for roughing or helmet contact.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Call: Peppers was flagged for roughing Drew Brees after a quick release.

I was going to say something quippy like “Oh, well that’s different!”

But in all seriousness stuff like this - the expansion of roughing, holding & personal foul calls with vague definitions has just left so much wide latitude to refs to essentially do what they want under plenty of cover.

 

[BassNBrew]

Call: Peppers was flagged for roughing Drew Brees after a quick release.

I was going to say something quippy like “Oh, well that’s different!”

But in all seriousness stuff like this - the expansion of roughing, holding & personal foul calls with vague definitions has just left so much wide latitude to refs to essentially do what they want under plenty of cover.

I've lead the bandwagon about the stupidity of part time refs, but most of these guys aren't risking their license/business helping their cousin hit a 7 leg parlay....

​

1. Ron Torbert – Attorney (Harvard Law graduate)
2. Clete Blakeman – Partner at a personal injury law firm / former Nebraska quarterback
3. Bill Vinovich – Certified Public Accountant (CPA) and college basketball official
4. Adrian Hill – Aerospace software engineer
5. Shawn Smith – Internal auditor
6. Alex Kemp – Former high school teacher and athletic director
7. Carl Cheffers – Insurance claims adjuster
8. Brad Rogers – Director of operations for a construction company
9. Clay Martin – High school basketball coach and athletic director (Oklahoma)
10. Scott Novak – Corporate sales executive
11. Land Clark – College instructor in health and human performance
12. Tra Blake – Business consultant / small business owner
13. Alan Eck – Indirect tax manager (engineering and construction industry)
14. Craig Wrolstad – High school athletic director (Washington state)
15. Brad Allen – President of a non-profit youth sports organization (NC)
16. Jerome Boger – Retired (formerly insurance underwriter; retired from NFL after 2022 but sometimes referenced in 2025 training materials)
17. Scott Novak – Corporate manager in telecommunications (listed variously as corporate exec)
18. Shawn Hochuli – Financial advisor (and son of former referee Ed Hochuli, also an attorney)
19. Clay Martin – Athletic director / coach (reiterating due to dual roles)
20. John Hussey – Sales executive (specializes in logistics and business operations)

 

[JohnnyU]

Call: Peppers was flagged for roughing Drew Brees after a quick release.

I was going to say something quippy like “Oh, well that’s different!”

But in all seriousness stuff like this - the expansion of roughing, holding & personal foul calls with vague definitions has just left so much wide latitude to refs to essentially do what they want under plenty of cover.

I've lead the bandwagon about the stupidity of part time refs, but most of these guys aren't risking their license/business helping their cousin hit a 7 leg parlay....

​

1. Ron Torbert – Attorney (Harvard Law graduate)
2. Clete Blakeman – Partner at a personal injury law firm / former Nebraska quarterback
3. Bill Vinovich – Certified Public Accountant (CPA) and college basketball official
4. Adrian Hill – Aerospace software engineer
5. Shawn Smith – Internal auditor
6. Alex Kemp – Former high school teacher and athletic director
7. Carl Cheffers – Insurance claims adjuster
8. Brad Rogers – Director of operations for a construction company
9. Clay Martin – High school basketball coach and athletic director (Oklahoma)
10. Scott Novak – Corporate sales executive
11. Land Clark – College instructor in health and human performance
12. Tra Blake – Business consultant / small business owner
13. Alan Eck – Indirect tax manager (engineering and construction industry)
14. Craig Wrolstad – High school athletic director (Washington state)
15. Brad Allen – President of a non-profit youth sports organization (NC)
16. Jerome Boger – Retired (formerly insurance underwriter; retired from NFL after 2022 but sometimes referenced in 2025 training materials)
17. Scott Novak – Corporate manager in telecommunications (listed variously as corporate exec)
18. Shawn Hochuli – Financial advisor (and son of former referee Ed Hochuli, also an attorney)
19. Clay Martin – Athletic director / coach (reiterating due to dual roles)
20. John Hussey – Sales executive (specializes in logistics and business operations)

Why no plumbers, carpenters, or electicians?

 

[DeaLerZ]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

Honestly it hasn’t been the same for me since tge Saints Rams NFCCG. Felt like my love for the game left my body as I sat in my seat with a few thousand others just similarly stunned.

Yes, that one stung, even non-Saints fans.

Yeah for real. That was one of the worst ... but remember that was during Covid and the Superbowl was being played in LA that year.

"The game was played on February 13, 2022, at SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, California, the home stadium of the Rams, marking the second consecutive and second overall Super Bowl with a team playing and winning in its home stadium."

Back to back Superbowls during Covid where the home team took home the trophy. First the Bucs at home, than the Rams. Having a team host the superbowl at home ensures that the seats are filled when a lot of people aren't traveling. This is after never in the history of the NFL did a team get to play a Superbowl in their home field.

Super Bowl stadium is filled no matter what. Covid or not.

This is the revisionist history I was referring to. If people were travelling to brings their relatives tidings of infection and a good cheer, they certainly weren't slowing down for a Super Bowl.

The NFL is a business and all it cares about is making money. It is literally defined as "Sports Entertainment" by law. This means they can do whatever they want as far as the games go because it is just entertainment. This is no different than how the WWF is defined. The goal of the business is the make money. Of course, if I am a billion dollar business I am going to have a strong back up plan in place for the most important event of the year just in case everyone is afraid to travel.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Bill Vinovich – Certified Public Accountant (CPA) and college basketball official

Vinovich *also refs college basketball? Really.

No one is doing analysis on the scores of refs, like say a PFF position grade. But it would be interesting.

 

[Grahamburn]

The circle of Parity:

https://x.com/mrcaseb/status/1982543030122127617/photo/1

I am glad I am not a big gambler.

I saw this elsewhere. I don’t really get it?

A beat B who beat C who beat D who beat E who beat A.

Oh that makes sense. I am dumb.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

most of these guys aren't risking their license/business helping their cousin hit a 7 leg parlay

I’m not going to get into (waves arms) All This either, but I hate faulty assumptions. I see roughly 6-8 names of people in positions (accounting, lawyers, corporate execs) to have independent LLCs or corporate entities who could easily take in funds & no one would be any the wiser.

And let’s face it the money at stake is potentially today way, way bigger than helping a cousin hit on say 5 figures. That’s not the problem.

 

[Da Guru]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare. Then the ridiculous new kickoff rules. Teams can get the ball at the 30-35, throw 2 quick passes and are in FG range.

They can`t move the goal posts back any farther, so they need to narrow them 3 ft on each side

 

[Zeppelin]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

 

[JohnnyU]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

I remember when a 50 yard field goal was a thing back in the 70s. Now you have RoboKickers.

 

[Zeppelin]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

I remember when a 50 yard field goal was a thing back in the 70s. Now you have RoboKickers.

It's not just the kickers, it's the ball.

 

[JohnnyU]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

I remember when a 50 yard field goal was a thing back in the 70s. Now you have RoboKickers.

On the flipside of this issue you have teams going for it on 4th down inside their own territory than you used to see and certainly every time if inside the opponent 50. Back in the day they seldom went for it on 4th down from the opponent 45. They punted and played the field position game a lot more than they do today.

 

[the moops]

The league needs to move to 18 games over 20 weeks. Space the bye weeks out better. I might be in favor of each division having a collective bye week - for example, the NFC south all have a week 9 bye. If there’s two bye weeks there would need to be more than 4 teams off unless your bye weeks extend from week 3-18, but those details can be managed. This might not be favorable with TV but as a concept it’s worth considering imo.

Wouldn’t there have to be two byes if they an are playing 18 games over 20 weeks??

 

[BassNBrew]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

I remember when a 50 yard field goal was a thing back in the 70s. Now you have RoboKickers.

On the flipside of this issue you have teams going for it on 4th down inside their own territory than you used to see and certainly every time if inside the opponent 50. Back in the day they seldom went for it on 4th down from the opponent 45. They punted and played the field position game a lot more than they do today.

So go for it rather than punting is tiring to see?

 

[JohnnyU]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

I remember when a 50 yard field goal was a thing back in the 70s. Now you have RoboKickers.

On the flipside of this issue you have teams going for it on 4th down inside their own territory than you used to see and certainly every time if inside the opponent 50. Back in the day they seldom went for it on 4th down from the opponent 45. They punted and played the field position game a lot more than they do today.

So go for it rather than punting is tiring to see?

No, just pointing out the change in philosophy. I believe it all started with computer applications telling them to go for it under certain situations. Now they just do it automatically most of the time.

 

[BassNBrew]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

I remember when a 50 yard field goal was a thing back in the 70s. Now you have RoboKickers.

On the flipside of this issue you have teams going for it on 4th down inside their own territory than you used to see and certainly every time if inside the opponent 50. Back in the day they seldom went for it on 4th down from the opponent 45. They punted and played the field position game a lot more than they do today.

So go for it rather than punting is tiring to see?

No, just pointing out the change in philosophy. I believe it all started with computer applications telling them to go for it under certain situations. Now they just do it automatically most of the time.

About half the time the punter shanked it, blew it through the end zone, or the offense gave up a return and they only netted 20 yards.

 

[JohnnyU]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

I remember when a 50 yard field goal was a thing back in the 70s. Now you have RoboKickers.

On the flipside of this issue you have teams going for it on 4th down inside their own territory than you used to see and certainly every time if inside the opponent 50. Back in the day they seldom went for it on 4th down from the opponent 45. They punted and played the field position game a lot more than they do today.

So go for it rather than punting is tiring to see?

No, just pointing out the change in philosophy. I believe it all started with computer applications telling them to go for it under certain situations. Now they just do it automatically most of the time.

About half the time the punter shanked it, blew it through the end zone, or the offense gave up a return and they only netted 20 yards.

Also when punting they used to angle for out of bounds more often instead of aiming just short of the goal line. Again, another change in philosophy. Now when it goes out of bounds it’s usually an accident.

 

[btemp]

Call: Peppers was flagged for roughing Drew Brees after a quick release.

I was going to say something quippy like “Oh, well that’s different!”

But in all seriousness stuff like this - the expansion of roughing, holding & personal foul calls with vague definitions has just left so much wide latitude to refs to essentially do what they want under plenty of cover.

I've lead the bandwagon about the stupidity of part time refs, but most of these guys aren't risking their license/business helping their cousin hit a 7 leg parlay....

​

1. Ron Torbert – Attorney (Harvard Law graduate)
2. Clete Blakeman – Partner at a personal injury law firm / former Nebraska quarterback
3. Bill Vinovich – Certified Public Accountant (CPA) and college basketball official
4. Adrian Hill – Aerospace software engineer
5. Shawn Smith – Internal auditor
6. Alex Kemp – Former high school teacher and athletic director
7. Carl Cheffers – Insurance claims adjuster
8. Brad Rogers – Director of operations for a construction company
9. Clay Martin – High school basketball coach and athletic director (Oklahoma)
10. Scott Novak – Corporate sales executive
11. Land Clark – College instructor in health and human performance
12. Tra Blake – Business consultant / small business owner
13. Alan Eck – Indirect tax manager (engineering and construction industry)
14. Craig Wrolstad – High school athletic director (Washington state)
15. Brad Allen – President of a non-profit youth sports organization (NC)
16. Jerome Boger – Retired (formerly insurance underwriter; retired from NFL after 2022 but sometimes referenced in 2025 training materials)
17. Scott Novak – Corporate manager in telecommunications (listed variously as corporate exec)
18. Shawn Hochuli – Financial advisor (and son of former referee Ed Hochuli, also an attorney)
19. Clay Martin – Athletic director / coach (reiterating due to dual roles)
20. John Hussey – Sales executive (specializes in logistics and business operations)

Why no plumbers, carpenters, or electicians?

Great point. You have to be rich to be an NFL ref?

 

[JohnnyU]

Call: Peppers was flagged for roughing Drew Brees after a quick release.

I was going to say something quippy like “Oh, well that’s different!”

But in all seriousness stuff like this - the expansion of roughing, holding & personal foul calls with vague definitions has just left so much wide latitude to refs to essentially do what they want under plenty of cover.

I've lead the bandwagon about the stupidity of part time refs, but most of these guys aren't risking their license/business helping their cousin hit a 7 leg parlay....

​

1. Ron Torbert – Attorney (Harvard Law graduate)
2. Clete Blakeman – Partner at a personal injury law firm / former Nebraska quarterback
3. Bill Vinovich – Certified Public Accountant (CPA) and college basketball official
4. Adrian Hill – Aerospace software engineer
5. Shawn Smith – Internal auditor
6. Alex Kemp – Former high school teacher and athletic director
7. Carl Cheffers – Insurance claims adjuster
8. Brad Rogers – Director of operations for a construction company
9. Clay Martin – High school basketball coach and athletic director (Oklahoma)
10. Scott Novak – Corporate sales executive
11. Land Clark – College instructor in health and human performance
12. Tra Blake – Business consultant / small business owner
13. Alan Eck – Indirect tax manager (engineering and construction industry)
14. Craig Wrolstad – High school athletic director (Washington state)
15. Brad Allen – President of a non-profit youth sports organization (NC)
16. Jerome Boger – Retired (formerly insurance underwriter; retired from NFL after 2022 but sometimes referenced in 2025 training materials)
17. Scott Novak – Corporate manager in telecommunications (listed variously as corporate exec)
18. Shawn Hochuli – Financial advisor (and son of former referee Ed Hochuli, also an attorney)
19. Clay Martin – Athletic director / coach (reiterating due to dual roles)
20. John Hussey – Sales executive (specializes in logistics and business operations)

Why no plumbers, carpenters, or electicians?

Great point. You have to be rich to be an NFL ref?

They make a better living than young college graduates these days, so there is that.

 

[warpig33]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

Honestly it hasn’t been the same for me since tge Saints Rams NFCCG. Felt like my love for the game left my body as I sat in my seat with a few thousand others just similarly stunned.

Yes, that one stung, even non-Saints fans.

Yeah for real. That was one of the worst ... but remember that was during Covid and the Superbowl was being played in LA that year.

"The game was played on February 13, 2022, at SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, California, the home stadium of the Rams, marking the second consecutive and second overall Super Bowl with a team playing and winning in its home stadium."

Back to back Superbowls during Covid where the home team took home the trophy. First the Bucs at home, than the Rams. Having a team host the superbowl at home ensures that the seats are filled when a lot of people aren't traveling. This is after never in the history of the NFL did a team get to play a Superbowl in their home field.

Super Bowl stadium is filled no matter what. Covid or not.

This is the revisionist history I was referring to. If people were travelling to brings their relatives tidings of infection and a good cheer, they certainly weren't slowing down for a Super Bowl.

The NFL is a business and all it cares about is making money. It is literally defined as "Sports Entertainment" by law. This means they can do whatever they want as far as the games go because it is just entertainment. This is no different than how the WWF is defined. The goal of the business is the make money. Of course, if I am a billion dollar business I am going to have a strong back up plan in place for the most important event of the year just in case everyone is afraid to travel.

I can see a day in the future when they start scripting the games (if they're not already). Adding sideline cameras and having the players "act" hurt to add drama. Maybe scripted fights. Just like the WWE. Hell, we could already be there! It is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY and like Jerry Jones says: "There's no such thing as bad press". The NFL will be like these scripted "reality" shows.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This might be the worst year of the NFL I have ever seen.

Awful football.

Always a good topic for engagement.

I'll bite. What specifically makes it the worst year of NFL you've ever seen?

 

[Chaka]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

Honestly it hasn’t been the same for me since tge Saints Rams NFCCG. Felt like my love for the game left my body as I sat in my seat with a few thousand others just similarly stunned.

Yes, that one stung, even non-Saints fans.

Yeah for real. That was one of the worst ... but remember that was during Covid and the Superbowl was being played in LA that year.

"The game was played on February 13, 2022, at SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, California, the home stadium of the Rams, marking the second consecutive and second overall Super Bowl with a team playing and winning in its home stadium."

Back to back Superbowls during Covid where the home team took home the trophy. First the Bucs at home, than the Rams. Having a team host the superbowl at home ensures that the seats are filled when a lot of people aren't traveling. This is after never in the history of the NFL did a team get to play a Superbowl in their home field.

Super Bowl stadium is filled no matter what. Covid or not.

This is the revisionist history I was referring to. If people were travelling to brings their relatives tidings of infection and a good cheer, they certainly weren't slowing down for a Super Bowl.

The NFL is a business and all it cares about is making money. It is literally defined as "Sports Entertainment" by law. This means they can do whatever they want as far as the games go because it is just entertainment. This is no different than how the WWF is defined. The goal of the business is the make money. Of course, if I am a billion dollar business I am going to have a strong back up plan in place for the most important event of the year just in case everyone is afraid to travel.

I can see a day in the future when they start scripting the games (if they're not already). Adding sideline cameras and having the players "act" hurt to add drama. Maybe scripted fights. Just like the WWE. Hell, we could already be there! It is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY and like Jerry Jones says: "There's no such thing as bad press". The NFL will be like these scripted "reality" shows.

LOL. If you're following the NBA gambling scandal at all, in the culture of legalized gambling we have today, Congress isn't going to sit by and let sports leagues manipulate outcomes without repercussions.

Unless DraftKings gives the administration a 10% stake in the company. Then it's all good.

 

[Grahamburn]

There's some recency bias here because the games last week weren't particularly competitive. So many stars are injured right now too which just leads to bad football. The Bucs played pretty poorly last week on offense and the Saints never threatened them. It's just not that interesting if the other team can't compete either due to injuries or just a bad roster in general. Then, there's the officiating. It's horrendous every single week. But, these guys are operating in real time so I do give them grace for that. Our ability to see high def slow motion replays over and over makes it so much easier to get triggered on bad calls. There's also so much ambiguity in the rules and how things are called game to game or even play to play. AND, there are clear and obvious biases seemingly for outcomes that are supposed to happen as well as particular players.

There's plenty of parity though and that's great for the game. Colts, Broncos, Patriots all look like contenders in some fashion and they weren't last year. The big dogs have suffered losses at the hands of some mid-level teams as well. And, regardless of how "terrible" any of us think it is nobody is turning it off.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

I've essentially stopped watching. I can't watch individual games, find them too dull, filled with too many stoppages, adverts, abysmal punditry, so it was redzone only for me anyway. Tuned in for week 1, was really bored, switched off early. Tuned in for week 2, ended up leaving it on all night but was barely paying attention to it. Since then I put week 6 on and lasted about 30 minutes.

Might just be that this sport isn't for me anymore. I've only been following the league for about 10-15 years and in the early stages there was the unknown allure of what I was watching, every week I was learning something, impressed by demonstration of new skills I'd not really seen before. Now it all just seems a bit ordinary and unexciting. Tbf the same thing has happened with football (soccer) the sport I've followed my whole life. It has all reached a saturation point. There's too much of it, it's too overhyped and in forcing so much of it on me I've ended up wanting none of it. The Premier League, English football is worse for this than the NFL as well, you barely get a day when there isn't a game, at least the NFL spaces it out across the week and you get some respite. Some people argue the product isn't what it was, I suspect it's probably better than it's ever been, I'm just indifferent to it now, having in effect seen it all before, or perhaps not loving it as much as I initially thought I did.

I still quite enjoy playing fantasy, trading players and tracking the scores etc, but the real on field product isn't working for me the way it did.

 

[ChiefD]

This might be the worst year of the NFL I have ever seen.

Awful football.

Always a good topic for engagement.

I'll bite. What specifically makes it the worst year of NFL you've ever seen?

For a lot of the reasons already posted here:

1. So many mediocre to bad teams.

2. Poor quarterback play.

3. The "virtual" measurement thing. This is so obvious what the NFL is trying to do. It gives them the opportunity to do whatever they want spotting the ball. No transparency = ability to influence games.

4. The flags. OH MY GOD THE FLAGS. There is no flow to an NFL game anymore and it's been this way for awhile. All of us here are now conditioned to wait to cheer for a play until we see there are no flags. What kind of product does this to fans? It's so terrible now.

5. Influenced games. It's amazing how there is always that one or two calls every game that helps keep games close. I know the Chiefs are major beneficiaries of this, just like every winning organization for the last 30 years depending on the hot flavor of the day. I'm growing to really hate it. You can't even really enjoy winning anymore because deep down inside there is that "what if" the result is legit or not.

Look - I love sports. It's my hobby. I enjoy watching football and will continue to do so. But my attention and focus to it fades more and more every year.

 

[Chaka]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

 

[Manster]

This might be the worst year of the NFL I have ever seen.

Awful football.

I disagree. I enjoy the parity of the NFL. I’m ok with a defensive struggle. It’s an always evolving arms race.

Much preferred to the college model of propping up a handful of schools, and the rest are just fodder.

 

[Manster]

(a) There's a total lack of parity.

You have a couple of surprise teams every year, but before the season starts you can predict 80% of the (competitive) playoff teams. We're still in the stage of the season where some records are close (Bears are one game behind the Lions) but competitiveness is not. There are very wide gaps.

Hell almost a third of the league (10 teams) hasn't appeared in the playoffs since the 2021 season.

(b) officiating is horrible.

And the NFL doesn't care. There are way too many rules applied inconsistently. I enjoy football and fantasy but Red Zone now. I struggle to watch many stand along games due to officiating. Its hard to invest when single, obvious blown calls swing games. Or stupid stuff like Patrick Mahomes trucking defenders near the sideline, then gets trucked himself finally and its a defensive penalty.

If you want to appreciate the nfl a little more for parity, and officiating, watch some college ball

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game

This is definitely a thing.

A lot of truth in the entire post tbf.

 

[warpig33]

Yep, I agree. And the refs are worse than ever too. Just a generally frustrating, lousy experience quite often. The offenses all look alike as well & the defenses are neutered.

NFL viewers are at the point where they completely distrust officials and it's not just compsiracy theorists and not just incompetence. It's becoming more accceptable to believe they dictate outcomes of games in favor of certain teams and that isn't just some far fetched idea. I know many will slam this post and that is perfectly OK with me. But I do think it's a good conversation to have, even if you're uncomfortable with it.

Honestly it hasn’t been the same for me since tge Saints Rams NFCCG. Felt like my love for the game left my body as I sat in my seat with a few thousand others just similarly stunned.

Yes, that one stung, even non-Saints fans.

Yeah for real. That was one of the worst ... but remember that was during Covid and the Superbowl was being played in LA that year.

"The game was played on February 13, 2022, at SoFi Stadium in Inglewood, California, the home stadium of the Rams, marking the second consecutive and second overall Super Bowl with a team playing and winning in its home stadium."

Back to back Superbowls during Covid where the home team took home the trophy. First the Bucs at home, than the Rams. Having a team host the superbowl at home ensures that the seats are filled when a lot of people aren't traveling. This is after never in the history of the NFL did a team get to play a Superbowl in their home field.

Super Bowl stadium is filled no matter what. Covid or not.

This is the revisionist history I was referring to. If people were travelling to brings their relatives tidings of infection and a good cheer, they certainly weren't slowing down for a Super Bowl.

The NFL is a business and all it cares about is making money. It is literally defined as "Sports Entertainment" by law. This means they can do whatever they want as far as the games go because it is just entertainment. This is no different than how the WWF is defined. The goal of the business is the make money. Of course, if I am a billion dollar business I am going to have a strong back up plan in place for the most important event of the year just in case everyone is afraid to travel.

I can see a day in the future when they start scripting the games (if they're not already). Adding sideline cameras and having the players "act" hurt to add drama. Maybe scripted fights. Just like the WWE. Hell, we could already be there! It is ALL ABOUT THE MONEY and like Jerry Jones says: "There's no such thing as bad press". The NFL will be like these scripted "reality" shows.

LOL. If you're following the NBA gambling scandal at all, in the culture of legalized gambling we have today, Congress isn't going to sit by and let sports leagues manipulate outcomes without repercussions.

Unless DraftKings gives the administration a 10% stake in the company. Then it's all good.

C'mon....it's the government...10% won't cut it. They'd want at least 25% to look the other way.

 

[JohnnyU]

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game

This is definitely a thing.

A lot of truth in the entire post tbf.

I quit letting fantasy ruin my Sunday experience. I watch the Colts without any regards to fantasy stats. I don’t really check my fantasy teams all that much. I may glance at it, or tune into the red zone channel hoping to get a glimpse of some of my players, but frankly it’s not that big of a deal as it was 15 years ago. I do check here for injuries a lot however. You have a choice not to let fantasy football ruin your Sundays.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

You have a choice not to let fantasy football ruin your Sundays.

Given that it's the only reason I pay any attention to the sport at all anymore it's harder said than done.

 

[warpig33]

The coaching is atrocious. Only a handful of coaches make in game adjustments. The rest just say "we trust in our system". Well, your system has you at 2 - 5...so there's that.

The FLAGS! I can't get excited on scoring plays anymore because there will be a flag thrown to negate it 75% of the time. How often have you guys seen your player pop off for a long run or huge reception only to see the yellow highlight at the bottom of your screen. Then some other scrub from your opponents team get the score!

Rules that have diminished defensive play. I've always enjoyed a good smash mouth battle. Defensive players putting the fear of god in a WR, RB, or QB. Offensive players have no need to fear that anymore because they know the defenses hands are tied.

And yes...the fantasy aspect. If my players get hurt, aren't getting touches, or just aren't performing I let it get to me and I get disinterested and turn the games off and find something else to do...like drink. But I realize that is on me and I shouldn't let that get to me. But I want to win dammit!

I assume if I were to quit fantasy football, I may enjoy it more...but I'm not so sure. If I quit FF I'd probably quit football altogether. And in a way, that scares me. I used to be so passionate about football. But these players, coaches, and rules have just turned me off. Maybe I'm just old? GET OFF MY LAWN!!!