The NFL is Horrible This Year (6 Viewers)

[JohnnyU]

You have a choice not to let fantasy football ruin your Sundays.

Given that it's the only reason I pay any attention to the sport at all anymore it's harder said than done.

Everyone has their crosses to bear. That just happens to be low on my lists of things that bother me. I can’t change what happens, so why get worked up over it? I feel if I do well enough in fantasy overall that I’ll have my share of glory to go along with the accepted defeats. I don’t even get too worked up over injuries. Namely Burrow and Skattebo this year.

 

[dutch]

Here's a more comprehensive list of officials and their day jobs. Have couple of firefighters, a school counselor, a pastor, a number of secondary school admin and teachers, an oil landman, a fed, and bunch of other professions. Cool list.
https://www.footballzebras.com/2025/07/officiating-crews-for-the-2025-season/

 

[dutch]

Not sure which of the above is more susceptible to be on the take and in the tank to alter prescribed outcomes. I'm guessing middle school teachers as they need the money the most.

 

[Joe Bryant]

This might be the worst year of the NFL I have ever seen.

Awful football.

Always a good topic for engagement.

I'll bite. What specifically makes it the worst year of NFL you've ever seen?

For a lot of the reasons already posted here:

1. So many mediocre to bad teams.

2. Poor quarterback play.

3. The "virtual" measurement thing. This is so obvious what the NFL is trying to do. It gives them the opportunity to do whatever they want spotting the ball. No transparency = ability to influence games.

4. The flags. OH MY GOD THE FLAGS. There is no flow to an NFL game anymore and it's been this way for awhile. All of us here are now conditioned to wait to cheer for a play until we see there are no flags. What kind of product does this to fans? It's so terrible now.

5. Influenced games. It's amazing how there is always that one or two calls every game that helps keep games close. I know the Chiefs are major beneficiaries of this, just like every winning organization for the last 30 years depending on the hot flavor of the day. I'm growing to really hate it. You can't even really enjoy winning anymore because deep down inside there is that "what if" the result is legit or not.

Look - I love sports. It's my hobby. I enjoy watching football and will continue to do so. But my attention and focus to it fades more and more every year.

Thanks.

I see it differently and that's what makes the board interesting.

I see a ton of parity. I wouldn't call it more mediocre or bad teams.
The QB point is amazing to me. I think we're the absolute golden age of quarterbacking. And it's not close. The guys today are incredible.
I don't see the influenced games at all. If there were to be influence or something like that, I think they're picking a sport with way less scrutiny and eyes on it. Even NBA is stupid for this. It's going to be Western Kentucky on Tuesday night. Not Eagles Giants with a zillion eyes. I think officiating is simply just really difficult.

I do wonder if we have about the same number of these type threads each year.

 

[BassNBrew]

This might be the worst year of the NFL I have ever seen.

Awful football.

Always a good topic for engagement.

I'll bite. What specifically makes it the worst year of NFL you've ever seen?

For a lot of the reasons already posted here:

1. So many mediocre to bad teams.

2. Poor quarterback play.

3. The "virtual" measurement thing. This is so obvious what the NFL is trying to do. It gives them the opportunity to do whatever they want spotting the ball. No transparency = ability to influence games.

4. The flags. OH MY GOD THE FLAGS. There is no flow to an NFL game anymore and it's been this way for awhile. All of us here are now conditioned to wait to cheer for a play until we see there are no flags. What kind of product does this to fans? It's so terrible now.

5. Influenced games. It's amazing how there is always that one or two calls every game that helps keep games close. I know the Chiefs are major beneficiaries of this, just like every winning organization for the last 30 years depending on the hot flavor of the day. I'm growing to really hate it. You can't even really enjoy winning anymore because deep down inside there is that "what if" the result is legit or not.

Look - I love sports. It's my hobby. I enjoy watching football and will continue to do so. But my attention and focus to it fades more and more every year.

Thanks.

I see it differently and that's what makes the board interesting.

I see a ton of parity. I wouldn't call it more mediocre or bad teams.
The QB point is amazing to me. I think we're the absolute golden age of quarterbacking. And it's not close. The guys today are incredible.
I don't see the influenced games at all. If there were to be influence or something like that, I think they're picking a sport with way less scrutiny and eyes on it. Even NBA is stupid for this. It's going to be Western Kentucky on Tuesday night. Not Eagles Giants with a zillion eyes. I think officiating is simply just really difficult.

I do wonder if we have about the same number of these type threads each year.

We do.

Fantasy is partially responsible. For most of us that pulled us into extra games like Jets v. Saints. I suspect most of us used to win more at fantasy when info would give you an edge. Now the info is so widespread that people with zero fantasy background and winning leagues on a regularly basis. Heck, MFL projects you player's points and ranks the FAs.

Agree that QBing is much better. That said, check out this list....

Here’s a full list of the starting NFL quarterbacks for the 1984 season (Week 1 primary starters for each team). That year featured a mix of future Hall-of-Famers, young guns, and journeymen — it was also Dan Marino’s record-setting MVP year.

---

AFC Teams​

Team	Starting QB (1984)	Notes
Buffalo Bills	Joe Ferguson	Longtime Bills starter since early ’70s.
Miami Dolphins	Dan Marino	MVP season — 5,084 yds & 48 TDs, NFL records at the time.
New England Patriots	Tony Eason	1st-round pick in ’83; started most of ’84.
New York Jets	Ken O’Brien	1983 first-rounder, started his first full season.
Cincinnati Bengals	Ken Anderson	Veteran QB, nearing end of career.
Cleveland Browns	Paul McDonald	Took over after Brian Sipe left for the USFL.
Pittsburgh Steelers	Mark Malone	Split time with David Woodley, but Malone opened season.
Houston Oilers	Oliver Luck	(Andrew Luck’s father) started before Warren Moon’s arrival in ’85.
Denver Broncos	John Elway	Second year, beginning his rise as franchise cornerstone.
Kansas City Chiefs	Bill Kenney	Threw for over 4,000 yards in ’83; still starter in ’84.
Los Angeles Raiders	Jim Plunkett	Veteran leading defending Super Bowl champs.
San Diego Chargers	Dan Fouts	Still one of the league’s elite passers.
Seattle Seahawks	Dave Kreig	Held the job through much of the mid-80s.

---

NFC Teams​

Team	Starting QB (1984)	Notes
Dallas Cowboys	Danny White	Veteran starter, still leading the offense.
New York Giants	Phil Simms	Healthy again and entrenched as starter.
Philadelphia Eagles	Ron Jaworski	“Jaws” remained the main starter under Marion Campbell.
Washington Redskins	Joe Theismann	Coming off 1983 Super Bowl appearance.
Chicago Bears	Jim McMahon	Team’s clear starter when healthy.
Detroit Lions	Gary Danielson	Split some time with Eric Hipple.
Green Bay Packers	Lynn Dickey	Entering his final season as starter.
Minnesota Vikings	Tommy Kramer	Veteran QB; Wade Wilson filled in occasionally.
Tampa Bay Buccaneers	Steve DeBerg	Began the year as starter under John McKay.
Atlanta Falcons	Steve Barkowski	Long-time franchise QB.
Los Angeles Rams	Jeff Kemp	Opened the season before Dieter Brock’s arrival in ’85.
New Orleans Saints	Ken Stabler	Final season before retirement.
San Francisco 49ers	Joe Montana	Continued dominance, Super Bowl XIX champion that year.

---

Quick Highlights from 1984​

• MVP: Dan Marino (Miami Dolphins)
• Super Bowl XIX: 49ers 38, Dolphins 16
• Passing Leaders: Marino (5,084 yds), Fouts (3,995 yds), Ken O’Brien (3,888 yds)
• Notable Rookies/Backups: Warren Moon (in CFL, arrived NFL ’85), Boomer Esiason (rookie backup in Cincinnati), Steve Young (USFL).

 

[BassNBrew]

I've essentially stopped watching. I can't watch individual games, find them too dull, filled with too many stoppages, adverts, abysmal punditry, so it was redzone only for me anyway. Tuned in for week 1, was really bored, switched off early. Tuned in for week 2, ended up leaving it on all night but was barely paying attention to it. Since then I put week 6 on and lasted about 30 minutes.

Might just be that this sport isn't for me anymore. I've only been following the league for about 10-15 years and in the early stages there was the unknown allure of what I was watching, every week I was learning something, impressed by demonstration of new skills I'd not really seen before. Now it all just seems a bit ordinary and unexciting. Tbf the same thing has happened with football (soccer) the sport I've followed my whole life. It has all reached a saturation point. There's too much of it, it's too overhyped and in forcing so much of it on me I've ended up wanting none of it. The Premier League, English football is worse for this than the NFL as well, you barely get a day when there isn't a game, at least the NFL spaces it out across the week and you get some respite. Some people argue the product isn't what it was, I suspect it's probably better than it's ever been, I'm just indifferent to it now, having in effect seen it all before, or perhaps not loving it as much as I initially thought I did.

I still quite enjoy playing fantasy, trading players and tracking the scores etc, but the real on field product isn't working for me the way it did.

I kind of get upset that my local grocery store is open on Sunday and 11pm everyday. Having more options kind of stinks.

 

[Jmiller21kg]

Some good points here and really like the point about technology ruining our viewing experience (technology ruins a lot of things). A few for me:

1. This was already mentioned but the NFL (American sports in general) is just a multi billion dollar corporation at this point. They mise well just go public and be listed on the NYSE. Eventually the pursuit of profit over everything will trickle its way down to fans. This has probably always been the case but something that I feel has become more apparent the past few years, especially with the leagues all getting into bed with the gambling companies. College sports has obviously been impacted, and I’ve heard even youth sports is even being impacted so I’ll be curious the domino effect it’ll have years down the line here.

2. As a Bucs fan, the recent news of Doug Martin just really hit me hard. Mix this in with Vincent Jackson a few years back and it’s made me question why I enjoy watching humans destroy their brains for my entertainment. Call me a softie I guess *shrugs*

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Actually, crap. I can’t believe I found this. I thought I was so smart knowing that the Cover 2 was instituted (not created but mastered by Fangio) in 2019~ or so to beat Patrick Mahomes quite specifically. Then it spread to other teams to beat Mahomes, and then they used it for the good QBs, and then every QB!

I do not believe the date is accurate. From memory, I recall Monte Kiffin as an architect for Cover 2 during his time with Tampa. That said a internet search revealed that "Defensive coordinator Bud Carson and head coach Chuck Noll of the 1970s Pittsburgh Steelers are generally credited with innovating the Cover 2 defense. However, the foundational concepts of the scheme were popularized and refined later by head coach Tony Dungy and defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin while with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

 

[JohnnyU]

Some good points here and really like the point about technology ruining our viewing experience (technology ruins a lot of things). A few for me:

1. This was already mentioned but the NFL (American sports in general) is just a multi billion dollar corporation at this point. They mise well just go public and be listed on the NYSE. Eventually the pursuit of profit over everything will trickle its way down to fans. This has probably always been the case but something that I feel has become more apparent the past few years, especially with the leagues all getting into bed with the gambling companies. College sports has obviously been impacted, and I’ve heard even youth sports is even being impacted so I’ll be curious the domino effect it’ll have years down the line here.

2. As a Bucs fan, the recent news of Doug Martin just really hit me hard. Mix this in with Vincent Jackson a few years back and it’s made me question why I enjoy watching humans destroy their brains for my entertainment. Call me a softie I guess *shrugs*

mise? Good one.

 

[JohnnyU]

Some good points here and really like the point about technology ruining our viewing experience (technology ruins a lot of things). A few for me:

1. This was already mentioned but the NFL (American sports in general) is just a multi billion dollar corporation at this point. They mise well just go public and be listed on the NYSE. Eventually the pursuit of profit over everything will trickle its way down to fans. This has probably always been the case but something that I feel has become more apparent the past few years, especially with the leagues all getting into bed with the gambling companies. College sports has obviously been impacted, and I’ve heard even youth sports is even being impacted so I’ll be curious the domino effect it’ll have years down the line here.

2. As a Bucs fan, the recent news of Doug Martin just really hit me hard. Mix this in with Vincent Jackson a few years back and it’s made me question why I enjoy watching humans destroy their brains for my entertainment. Call me a softie I guess *shrugs*

Be thankful it’s not like the Roman Gladiator era.

 

[Terpman22]

What the NFL should do to solve this issue, is change a bunch of rules this offseason and institute new ways to call existing rules.

And then like clockwork we can all go "Why is officiating so bad"

 

[zed2283]

Actually, crap. I can’t believe I found this. I thought I was so smart knowing that the Cover 2 was instituted (not created but mastered by Fangio) in 2019~ or so to beat Patrick Mahomes quite specifically. Then it spread to other teams to beat Mahomes, and then they used it for the good QBs, and then every QB!

I do not believe the date is accurate. From memory, I recall Monte Kiffin as an architect for Cover 2 during his time with Tampa. That said a internet search revealed that "Defensive coordinator Bud Carson and head coach Chuck Noll of the 1970s Pittsburgh Steelers are generally credited with innovating the Cover 2 defense. However, the foundational concepts of the scheme were popularized and refined later by head coach Tony Dungy and defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin while with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Yeah, this is kind of like crediting Jim Boeheim with creating the 2-3 defense.

 

[rockaction]

Actually, crap. I can’t believe I found this. I thought I was so smart knowing that the Cover 2 was instituted (not created but mastered by Fangio) in 2019~ or so to beat Patrick Mahomes quite specifically. Then it spread to other teams to beat Mahomes, and then they used it for the good QBs, and then every QB!

I do not believe the date is accurate. From memory, I recall Monte Kiffin as an architect for Cover 2 during his time with Tampa. That said a internet search revealed that "Defensive coordinator Bud Carson and head coach Chuck Noll of the 1970s Pittsburgh Steelers are generally credited with innovating the Cover 2 defense. However, the foundational concepts of the scheme were popularized and refined later by head coach Tony Dungy and defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin while with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Yeah, this is kind of like crediting Jim Boeheim with creating the 2-3 defense.

The claim was clearly limited to Vic Fangio and his version of it and was a window into when he was first made the coach in Denver and when I picked up the fact that he was using it (against Mahomes, specifically) to great effect, but thank you for the supplemental information. I thought the wording pretty clearly gave the claim a limitation and some shorthand-esque clarity, but I have been mistaken before.

Did I post this here or to Twitter? This is what I'm talking about and the clear limitation and qualification I put on that claim I made can be seen in more detail below at the link. This is a NYT or Athletic article from a while ago about Fangio and defanging Mahomes and the league in general. It explains what Fangio does in detail. He was the first coach to have a defense that gave my dynasty quarterback at the time (and he still is my QB) fits like I'd never seen him have. Other QBs and coaches had fits also. Check out this article.

https://archive.is/23mEM#selection-2311.0-2311.422

eta* Thank you for the full history. I am aware of Monte Kiffin and the Tampa 2. I am also aware of the dates. I did not think it came into being in 2019. That wouldn't be in keeping with what I know. Just figured I'd clear that up for the reader. Nice alliteration in Tampa 2, I always thought.

 

[Chaka]

I quit letting fantasy ruin my Sunday experience. I watch the Colts without any regards to fantasy stats. I don’t really check my fantasy teams all that much. I may glance at it, or tune into the red zone channel hoping to get a glimpse of some of my players, but frankly it’s not that big of a deal as it was 15 years ago. I do check here for injuries a lot however. You have a choice not to let fantasy football ruin your Sundays.

I do the same thing.

Now I only think football is terrible because I'm a Raiders fan.

 

[Stoneworker]

This might be the worst year of the NFL I have ever seen.

Awful football.

Always a good topic for engagement.

I'll bite. What specifically makes it the worst year of NFL you've ever seen?

2. Poor quarterback play.

Do you have anything objective to base this on?

Because in 2025 there are 12 QBs above 100 QB rating (Lamar, Maye, Goff, Hurts, Love, Jones, Stafford, Darnold, Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes, Prescott) (min 4 games)

In 2024 there were 11 (Lamar, Goff, Burrow, Mayfield, Hurts, Darnold, Allen, Herbert, Tua, Carr, Daniels) (min 10 games)

Even your boy Mahomes is on pace for a much better year

 

[zed2283]

Actually, crap. I can’t believe I found this. I thought I was so smart knowing that the Cover 2 was instituted (not created but mastered by Fangio) in 2019~ or so to beat Patrick Mahomes quite specifically. Then it spread to other teams to beat Mahomes, and then they used it for the good QBs, and then every QB!

I do not believe the date is accurate. From memory, I recall Monte Kiffin as an architect for Cover 2 during his time with Tampa. That said a internet search revealed that "Defensive coordinator Bud Carson and head coach Chuck Noll of the 1970s Pittsburgh Steelers are generally credited with innovating the Cover 2 defense. However, the foundational concepts of the scheme were popularized and refined later by head coach Tony Dungy and defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin while with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Yeah, this is kind of like crediting Jim Boeheim with creating the 2-3 defense.

The claim was clearly limited to Vic Fangio and his version of it and was a window into when he was first made the coach in Denver and when I picked up the fact that he was using it (against Mahomes, specifically) to great effect, but thank you for the supplemental information. I thought the wording pretty clearly gave the claim a limitation and some shorthand-esque clarity, but I have been mistaken before.

Did I post this here or to Twitter? This is what I'm talking about and the clear limitation and qualification I put on that claim I made can be seen in more detail below at the link. This is a NYT or Athletic article from a while ago about Fangio and defanging Mahomes and the league in general. It explains what Fangio does in detail. He was the first coach to have a defense that gave my dynasty quarterback at the time (and he still is my QB) fits like I'd never seen him have. Other QBs and coaches had fits also. Check out this article.

https://archive.is/23mEM#selection-2311.0-2311.422

eta* Thank you for the full history. I am aware of Monte Kiffin and the Tampa 2. I am also aware of the dates. I did not think it came into being in 2019. That wouldn't be in keeping with what I know. Just figured I'd clear that up for the reader. Nice alliteration in Tampa 2, I always thought.

I wasn't referring to your comment specifically, just about the way they talk about Dungy, Kiffin, and the Tampa 2 in general. I understood what you meant.

 

[Pip's Invitation]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

I remember when a 50 yard field goal was a thing back in the 70s. Now you have RoboKickers.

On the flipside of this issue you have teams going for it on 4th down inside their own territory than you used to see and certainly every time if inside the opponent 50. Back in the day they seldom went for it on 4th down from the opponent 45. They punted and played the field position game a lot more than they do today.

And that was boring. This is an improvement.

 

[JohnnyU]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

I remember when a 50 yard field goal was a thing back in the 70s. Now you have RoboKickers.

On the flipside of this issue you have teams going for it on 4th down inside their own territory than you used to see and certainly every time if inside the opponent 50. Back in the day they seldom went for it on 4th down from the opponent 45. They punted and played the field position game a lot more than they do today.

And that was boring. This is an improvement.

Can’t argue with that. When it fails on your own side of the 50 it makes the coach look stupid.

 

[zed2283]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

I remember when a 50 yard field goal was a thing back in the 70s. Now you have RoboKickers.

On the flipside of this issue you have teams going for it on 4th down inside their own territory than you used to see and certainly every time if inside the opponent 50. Back in the day they seldom went for it on 4th down from the opponent 45. They punted and played the field position game a lot more than they do today.

And that was boring. This is an improvement.

Can’t argue with that. When it fails on your own side of the 50 it makes the coach look stupid.

Only because teams can't play defense anymore.

 

[JohnnyU]

Getting tired of 50+ yard FGs being made like chips shots with 10 yards to spare.

This ×1000.

I remember when a 50 yard field goal was a thing back in the 70s. Now you have RoboKickers.

On the flipside of this issue you have teams going for it on 4th down inside their own territory than you used to see and certainly every time if inside the opponent 50. Back in the day they seldom went for it on 4th down from the opponent 45. They punted and played the field position game a lot more than they do today.

And that was boring. This is an improvement.

Can’t argue with that. When it fails on your own side of the 50 it makes the coach look stupid.

Only because teams can't play defense anymore.

Punting and playing field position is sometimes the right play. Sometimes the defense owns the offense. Easy to see when an offense is overmatched, and visa versa.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

The offensive line schnanigans, lead by 74 on chiefs have gotten out of control. It’s nearly every play of every game across every team

 

[Chaka]

One big improvement this season is one of the networks, I think Fox, got rid of the stupid stat crawl at the bottom of the screen. The crawl definitely takes away from my enjoyment in watching the game.

 

[Scoresman]

Ever since I started watching soccer, I just cant sit and watch football much outside of playoff games, even though I love fantasy.

The constant commercials just ruin it for me. Watching commercials, then returning to the game for them to run one kickoff play, then more commercials is just ridiculous. By comparison, watching a sport that has no interruptions for commercials is such a better experience.

Maybe this is better if you have redzone or whatever other packages are out there, but I havent bothered to research any of this.

I have the same complaint about college basketball, which is the other major sport I used to watch, but still like.

 

[Chaka]

Ever since I started watching soccer, I just cant sit and watch football much outside of playoff games, even though I love fantasy.

The constant commercials just ruin it for me. Watching commercials, then returning to the game for them to run one kickoff play, then more commercials is just ridiculous. By comparison, watching a sport that has no interruptions for commercials is such a better experience.

Maybe this is better if you have redzone or whatever other packages are out there, but I havent bothered to research any of this.

I have the same complaint about college basketball, which is the other major sport I used to watch, but still like.

Take it to Le Bassin des Requins, copine.

 

[JohnnyU]

The offensive line schnanigans, lead by 74 on chiefs have gotten out of control. It’s nearly every play of every game across every team

Yeah I’ve been bitching about #74 for two years.

 

[Scoresman]

Ever since I started watching soccer, I just cant sit and watch football much outside of playoff games, even though I love fantasy.

The constant commercials just ruin it for me. Watching commercials, then returning to the game for them to run one kickoff play, then more commercials is just ridiculous. By comparison, watching a sport that has no interruptions for commercials is such a better experience.

Maybe this is better if you have redzone or whatever other packages are out there, but I havent bothered to research any of this.

I have the same complaint about college basketball, which is the other major sport I used to watch, but still like.

Take it to Le Bassin des Requins, copine.

Passe une bonne saison, mec

 

[ChiefD]

This might be the worst year of the NFL I have ever seen.

Awful football.

Always a good topic for engagement.

I'll bite. What specifically makes it the worst year of NFL you've ever seen?

2. Poor quarterback play.

Do you have anything objective to base this on?

Because in 2025 there are 12 QBs above 100 QB rating (Lamar, Maye, Goff, Hurts, Love, Jones, Stafford, Darnold, Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes, Prescott) (min 4 games)

In 2024 there were 11 (Lamar, Goff, Burrow, Mayfield, Hurts, Darnold, Allen, Herbert, Tua, Carr, Daniels) (min 10 games)

Even your boy Mahomes is on pace for a much better year

66% of the QB’s suck.

 

[Stoneworker]

This might be the worst year of the NFL I have ever seen.

Awful football.

Always a good topic for engagement.

I'll bite. What specifically makes it the worst year of NFL you've ever seen?

2. Poor quarterback play.

Do you have anything objective to base this on?

Because in 2025 there are 12 QBs above 100 QB rating (Lamar, Maye, Goff, Hurts, Love, Jones, Stafford, Darnold, Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes, Prescott) (min 4 games)

In 2024 there were 11 (Lamar, Goff, Burrow, Mayfield, Hurts, Darnold, Allen, Herbert, Tua, Carr, Daniels) (min 10 games)

Even your boy Mahomes is on pace for a much better year

66% of the QB’s suck.

I thought so. Nothing objective or factual. Just drivel.

 

[ChiefD]

This might be the worst year of the NFL I have ever seen.

Awful football.

Always a good topic for engagement.

I'll bite. What specifically makes it the worst year of NFL you've ever seen?

2. Poor quarterback play.

Do you have anything objective to base this on?

Because in 2025 there are 12 QBs above 100 QB rating (Lamar, Maye, Goff, Hurts, Love, Jones, Stafford, Darnold, Rodgers, Allen, Mahomes, Prescott) (min 4 games)

In 2024 there were 11 (Lamar, Goff, Burrow, Mayfield, Hurts, Darnold, Allen, Herbert, Tua, Carr, Daniels) (min 10 games)

Even your boy Mahomes is on pace for a much better year

66% of the QB’s suck.

I thought so. Nothing objective or factual. Just drivel.

What drivel? Out of your 2025 list who can win a Super Bowl this year?

Lamar - maybe? Has failed over and over.
Maye - too soon to tell
Goff - yes
Hurts - yes
Love - maybe?
Jones - maybe, with this type of team.
Stafford - yes
Darnold - no
Rodgers - no
Allen - yes
Mahomes - yes
Prescott - no

So out of your 12, five are most definitely capable of winning a Super Bowl. 3 of those 5 have won Super Bowls.

Are those other guys having good years? Sure. But some have played cake schedules. But my overall post isn’t simply about QB’s. It’s about overall NFL play.

It’s ugly. Unwatchable at times. Terrible game flow. Poor coaching. Poor offensive line play. It’s just ugly football.

I can go to my son’s D3 football game and see much better football. Yeah, the kids aren’t as talented obviously, but there are no agendas there. Just two teams trying to out-execute the other teams without outside influence. Very few flags. Never any controversy.

The NFL is getting boring. Just one old man’s opinion.

 

[rockaction]

Actually, crap. I can’t believe I found this. I thought I was so smart knowing that the Cover 2 was instituted (not created but mastered by Fangio) in 2019~ or so to beat Patrick Mahomes quite specifically. Then it spread to other teams to beat Mahomes, and then they used it for the good QBs, and then every QB!

I do not believe the date is accurate. From memory, I recall Monte Kiffin as an architect for Cover 2 during his time with Tampa. That said a internet search revealed that "Defensive coordinator Bud Carson and head coach Chuck Noll of the 1970s Pittsburgh Steelers are generally credited with innovating the Cover 2 defense. However, the foundational concepts of the scheme were popularized and refined later by head coach Tony Dungy and defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin while with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers.

Yeah, this is kind of like crediting Jim Boeheim with creating the 2-3 defense.

The claim was clearly limited to Vic Fangio and his version of it and was a window into when he was first made the coach in Denver and when I picked up the fact that he was using it (against Mahomes, specifically) to great effect, but thank you for the supplemental information. I thought the wording pretty clearly gave the claim a limitation and some shorthand-esque clarity, but I have been mistaken before.

Did I post this here or to Twitter? This is what I'm talking about and the clear limitation and qualification I put on that claim I made can be seen in more detail below at the link. This is a NYT or Athletic article from a while ago about Fangio and defanging Mahomes and the league in general. It explains what Fangio does in detail. He was the first coach to have a defense that gave my dynasty quarterback at the time (and he still is my QB) fits like I'd never seen him have. Other QBs and coaches had fits also. Check out this article.

https://archive.is/23mEM#selection-2311.0-2311.422

eta* Thank you for the full history. I am aware of Monte Kiffin and the Tampa 2. I am also aware of the dates. I did not think it came into being in 2019. That wouldn't be in keeping with what I know. Just figured I'd clear that up for the reader. Nice alliteration in Tampa 2, I always thought.

I wasn't referring to your comment specifically, just about the way they talk about Dungy, Kiffin, and the Tampa 2 in general. I understood what you meant.

I apologize. I was really responding to 32 Counter Pass. You got caught up in it. I was directing that at him and never should have quoted you if I wanted to address him. Sorry.

 

[zed2283]

By comparison, watching a sport that has no interruptions for commercials is such a better experience.

I mean, if you want to watch soccer.

 

[Ilov80s]

Just watch the Lions games and you will think the sport has never been more fun. At least that has mostly been my experience.

 

[Max Power]

The officiating is so terrible this season that the whispers of gambling scandals in the background seem logical. I can't recall how many times this season the broadcast referee analyst has said the call on the field was flat out wrong.

I've come around on letting former players work to become officials.

 

[OnTheReg]

Did that guy say his son’s D3 football is much better football?

 

[pinkstapler]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

 

[efactor]

The officiating is so terrible this season that the whispers of gambling scandals in the background seem logical. I can't recall how many times this season the broadcast referee analyst has said the call on the field was flat out wrong.

Agree with bolded. A lot of very tickey-tac penalties called that didn't impact the play. Every time a big play happens, you are waiting for the flag to come out. Same when a defense makes a 3rd down stop on a passing play. Here comes the defensive holding penalty to keep the drive going. As much as I love watching football, it's frustrating. Slows the game down and takes a lot of the fun out of it.

 

[Steve Tasker]

I've essentially stopped watching. I can't watch individual games, find them too dull, filled with too many stoppages, adverts, abysmal punditry, so it was redzone only for me anyway. Tuned in for week 1, was really bored, switched off early. Tuned in for week 2, ended up leaving it on all night but was barely paying attention to it. Since then I put week 6 on and lasted about 30 minutes.

Might just be that this sport isn't for me anymore. I've only been following the league for about 10-15 years and in the early stages there was the unknown allure of what I was watching, every week I was learning something, impressed by demonstration of new skills I'd not really seen before. Now it all just seems a bit ordinary and unexciting. Tbf the same thing has happened with football (soccer) the sport I've followed my whole life. It has all reached a saturation point. There's too much of it, it's too overhyped and in forcing so much of it on me I've ended up wanting none of it. The Premier League, English football is worse for this than the NFL as well, you barely get a day when there isn't a game, at least the NFL spaces it out across the week and you get some respite. Some people argue the product isn't what it was, I suspect it's probably better than it's ever been, I'm just indifferent to it now, having in effect seen it all before, or perhaps not loving it as much as I initially thought I did.

I still quite enjoy playing fantasy, trading players and tracking the scores etc, but the real on field product isn't working for me the way it did.

This is pretty much where I'm at, except substitute <watching the Bills> instead of <playing fantasy>, since I don't play fantasy football. I'll always watch the Bills even during the drought years when they sucked, but I just don't care about the rest of the league. I might flip a game on here or there if I'm sitting around with nothing to do, but I can't remember the last time I actually "watched" an NFL game that didn't involve the Bills - and that includes playoffs, Super Bowls etc.

I just find the product to be overall boring, big picture. Sure, there can be a great game here or there, or some amazing individual play - the players are freaks and incredibly good at what they do. But the product is just oversaturated, over-commercialized, and the games themselves are just plain not exciting enough (for me personally) to really get invested. This isn't necessarily new or specific to this year, but definitely has been trending this way for awhile. The over-promotion of gambling has also soured some of my interest. I think your bolded point is much better than I could have articulated my feelings.

Truthfully some of it might be Tiktok brain. I don't even watch Bills games live anymore - I record them and start watching maybe ~80 minutes into the game, so I can fast-forward commercials and finish watching roughly the same time when the game ends. I'm still a huge college football fan, but I'd be lying if I said part of the allure isn't the all-day 10-channel onslaught of football games - there's always something to watch. That said, I watched the two college football games last night (neither of which was particularly close) and didn't watch a second of the NFL game. Who knows, maybe I'm just getting older.

 

[zed2283]

The officiating is so terrible this season that the whispers of gambling scandals in the background seem logical. I can't recall how many times this season the broadcast referee analyst has said the call on the field was flat out wrong.

Agree with bolded. A lot of very tickey-tac penalties called that didn't impact the play. Every time a big play happens, you are waiting for the flag to come out. Same when a defense makes a 3rd down stop on a passing play. Here comes the defensive holding penalty to keep the drive going. As much as I love watching football, it's frustrating. Slows the game down and takes a lot of the fun out of it.

I have a long list of changes and rollbacks that I would make if I were in charge, but one of them would be to eliminate automatic first downs. I absolutely hate defensive holding on 4th and 17.

 

[Zeppelin]

I have a long list of changes and rollbacks that I would make if I were in charge, but one of them would be to eliminate automatic first downs. I absolutely hate defensive holding on 4th and 17.

If they got rid of automatic first downs the number of holding and illegal contact penalties would skyrocket.

 

[zed2283]

I have a long list of changes and rollbacks that I would make if I were in charge, but one of them would be to eliminate automatic first downs. I absolutely hate defensive holding on 4th and 17.

If they got rid of automatic first downs the number of holding and illegal contact penalties would skyrocket.

That's ok. Let the penalty be the penalty.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

Truthfully some of it might be Tiktok brain.

I think it's the opposite of this actually.

What you are after is uninterrupted sport. What you don't want is; a play, then an advert, then some stats, then a hot take by some irritating ex player, then another advert, then perhaps if you're lucky a half decent series, then some more adverts, then a sideline interview by some robotic no mark, then another advert, then a punt, then another advert.

One of those things is a lot more disjointed, fragmented and unfocused.

 

[JohnnyU]

Truthfully some of it might be Tiktok brain.

I think it's the opposite of this actually.

What you are after is uninterrupted sport. What you don't want is; a play, then an advert, then some stats, then a hot take by some irritating ex player, then another advert, then perhaps if you're lucky a half decent series, then some more adverts, then a sideline interview by some robotic no mark, then another advert, then a punt, then another advert.

One of those things is a lot more disjointed, fragmented and unfocused.

Advertisements have always been a big part of sports television and always will be. I suppose some are so used to streaming their favorite shows, without ads, or skipping through them in the past with DVR, that they lose sight of the fact that's always been part of sports and isn't going away.

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

Advertisements have always been a big part of sports television and always will be. I suppose some are so used to streaming their favorite shows, without ads, or skipping through them in the past with DVR, that they lose sight of the fact that's always been part of sports and isn't going away.

Not in the UK old bear.

And the fact that it's there and not going away doesn't make it any less crap or intolerable or unworthy of criticism.

 

[JohnnyU]

Advertisements have always been a big part of sports television and always will be. I suppose some are so used to streaming their favorite shows, without ads, or skipping through them in the past with DVR, that they lose sight of the fact that's always been part of sports and isn't going away.

Not in the UK old bear.

And the fact that it's there and not going away doesn't make it any less crap or intolerable or unworthy of criticism.

I've been watching football on Sunday for 60 years and commercials don't seem to bother me. I suppose in the era of instant gratification it's becoming more of a problem. Get a soda and snacks, get a beer, go poop, give the wife and dog some attention

 

[Wigglytuff's Gruff]

Yeah, the era of instant gratification is defo the issue, not the bad product that you've been conditioned over a lifetime to find acceptable.

 

[pinkstapler]

Truthfully some of it might be Tiktok brain.

I think it's the opposite of this actually.

What you are after is uninterrupted sport. What you don't want is; a play, then an advert, then some stats, then a hot take by some irritating ex player, then another advert, then perhaps if you're lucky a half decent series, then some more adverts, then a sideline interview by some robotic no mark, then another advert, then a punt, then another advert.

One of those things is a lot more disjointed, fragmented and unfocused.

Advertisements have always been a big part of sports television and always will be. I suppose some are so used to streaming their favorite shows, without ads, or skipping through them in the past with DVR, that they lose sight of the fact that's always been part of sports and isn't going away.

For me ads were fine when basic cable was free (or even when it was relatively low cost). Watching games on NBC, Fox, and CBS for pennies and watching ads was reasonable. Paying hundreds of dollars a month to watch them, and still getting the same exact amount of ads.... that's the rub for me.

Ever since streaming started that was the deal too; you get it for free or very cheap and get ads so the providers can get their income. Or you pay them a much larger sum and avoid the ads, or at least very limited ones. At this point now they are just double dipping and collecting serious revenue streams from both.

 

[Chaka]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

Great points. It can get frustrating to bounce around to find games. Correct me if I'm wrong but, the only weekly game that can't be found on YouTube TV is TNF, right? Of course Netflix is throwing their hat in the ring on Christmas which, will inevitably lead to more ala carte games with streaming services competing for individual game, team, division, conference etc. rights. I think if I have to start bouncing from one streaming service to another during the same timeslot, that may be it for me and the NFL.

But, again, these are external concerns not related to the product on the field even if it alters our perception of the product.

 

[Da Guru]

I years past I used to watch almost every game on that was on TV. Now I watch all the Lions games but only bits and pieces of others. Plus I have to turn the sound of when Collingsworth is doing a game and rambling on and on.

The game just seems so predictable now. The penalties destroy the flow of the game.

I will still watch but not nearly as much. Just check the score's on my phone.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

4. The flags. OH MY GOD THE FLAGS. There is no flow to an NFL game anymore and it's been this way for awhile. All of us here are now conditioned to wait to cheer for a play until we see there are no flags. What kind of product does this to fans? It's so terrible now.

5. Influenced games. It's amazing how there is always that one or two calls every game that helps keep games close. I know the Chiefs are major beneficiaries of this, just like every winning organization for the last 30 years depending on the hot flavor of the day. I'm growing to really hate it. You can't even really enjoy winning anymore because deep down inside there is that "what if" the result is legit or not

Agreed here

We watch RZ all day, last Sunday was easily the most boring day we’ve had yet

 

[Joe Bryant]

The product is as good, or bad, as it has always been. I still love watching full games and any talk of it being better or worse is due to external factors, not the product on the field.

For many people, Red Zone channel has ruined the viewing experience of watching a single game. In our culture of quick clips and hot takes many people only want to see the action and don't have the patience to watch the much slower burn of a full game developing in real time.

Fantasy performance is also ruining the game watching experience for many. People get triggered when they perceive "their" guys aren't getting opportunities or are underperforming when they do. It takes away from enjoyment of the actual team game.

As @Grahamburn pointed out, with the technology viewers have to see high definition, super slow motion replays it makes the referees look worse than they actually are (which is the same as they have always been). Couple that with our "new normal" culture of conspiracy theories and people simply and, incorrectly, assume the worst of everyone and everything.

It's sad.

I agree with a lot of this. The only thing that I'd kind of rally against, at least for me in particular, is RZ being at fault for ruining a single game viewing experience. I blame a lot of that (for me at least) on all the television/viewing rights stuff. It's asinine that games are spread across 7-8 different streaming services, and it's a pain trying to figure out which one is showing what game every single time. But also it's a principle thing (which I get can be viewed as a "me" problem). Everyone has a tipping point with regards to how much money is too much despite understanding business is business. But the fact the "easiest" way to see "most" of the games is via Sunday Ticket on YouTube TV; and that the cost of that is $83 a month for YTTV and $276 for the ticket is wild; pretty much $775 to watch football, and again, you're STILL not getting every game this way. It wasn't some slow progression either over the course of 10-15 years. So that's the main reason I watch RZ, because it costs 10% of that price. And then I'll just illegally stream the individual games I want to watch, which can also be a PITA.

Ultimately I watch football to try to relax and enjoy myself. The fact they've turned it into a total chore, and basically price gouge me to make it slightly less of a chore, is what's been my biggest turnoff. At least much more so than the constant flags, the bad officiating, the RZ/streaming service commercials (member when streaming with commercials was free or negligible low cost bc of all the revenue they get from commercials, and really what you paid extra for was not having to watch all the political, pharmaceutical, and gambling propaganda for 3 minutes every 10 minutes?), etc.

Sorry old man yelling at clouds moment lol. But it also doesn't feel like I'm yearning for something from 20 years ago. More like 5 years ago. And it just gets worse and worse every year at an increasingly rapid pace. In fact this is the first year I think (if you remove me watching RZ live) that I watch more solo games AFTER they are played than I do live. Just because of the PITA they've made it with all the streaming rights, the cost, and the commercials. It just makes me sad, because I know I'm slowly losing interest, which I'm sure will eventually mean I'm playing less fantasy. Pretty much watching my favorite hobby die for me. But for now I am still watching and do find enjoyment from watching (and playing fantasy), just feels like it's getting less and less.

To get today's equivalent of Sunday Ticket 5 years ago, what was the cost?