The NFL is screwing the ref issue up big time (1 Viewer)

[Liquid Tension]

Me either, but seriously, when did you see a call that was not called against Pittsburgh that should have been, I want to take another look at the tape.....(no sarcasm here)

[

How about the offides on the holding call (Stevens catch at the one). I thought the Steeler was offside before the so called hold.

 

[Banger]

Me either, but seriously, when did you see a call that was not called against Pittsburgh that should have been, I want to take another look at the tape.....(no sarcasm here)

[

How about the offides on the holding call (Stevens catch at the one). I thought the Steeler was offside before the so called hold.

has been reviewed and discussed and he wasn't offsides just got a great jump on the snap.

 

[The Jerk]

Me either, but seriously, when did you see a call that was not called against Pittsburgh that should have been, I want to take another look at the tape.....(no sarcasm here)

[

How about the offides on the holding call (Stevens catch at the one). I thought the Steeler was offside before the so called hold.

Posted earlier, edited for this specific call:

Interesting article from The Seattle Times

Friday, February 10, 2006 - Page updated at 12:00 AM

Explanations of six key plays

The play: Early in the fourth quarter, right tackle Sean Locklear is flagged for holding linebacker Clark Haggans, negating a Stevens catch to the 1-yard line.

The gripe: Fans, writers and broadcasters all seem to agree that there was no hold on the play. Also, there was a question of whether Haggans was offsides on the play. Hasselbeck said he thought he had a free play because Haggans had jumped early.

Conclusion: Haggans seemed to have the snap count figured out that drive, as he timed several plays to get a head start on Locklear. In slow motion, it looks like he crossed the line right at the snap, not early. As for the hold, NFL rules state that "hands or arms that encircle a defender — i.e., hook an opponent — are to be considered illegal." It was borderline whether Locklear hooked his arm around Haggans, and certainly similar plays frequently go uncalled, but Locklear did appear to briefly get his right arm around Haggans' neck.

"I would need to see it from where the umpire was standing. But if he sees him [Locklear] restricting that player from getting to the quarterback with his arm wrapped around him, then he can call a hold," Tunney said. "As I remember the play, he got his arm around the neck, so by the letter of the law that's restricting, and it's a hold."

John Boyle

Copyright © 2006 The Seattle Times Company

 

[Liquid Tension]

"""The play: Jerramy Stevens drops a pass from Matt Hasselbeck early in the second quarter that would have given the Seahawks a first down. Replays show that Stevens might actually have made a catch then fumbled.

The gripe: Was that a catch and fumble? And if so can the Seahawks challenge and keep the ball, since it went out of bounds?

Conclusion: Because the play was ruled incomplete and blown dead, it cannot be reviewed. Had the play been ruled a fumble, Steelers linebacker James Farrior would almost certainly have recovered the ball."""

The conclusion is incorrect! An incomplete pass can be reviewed and overturned. the whistle always blows in that case. The oddity of instant replay is that the offensive team could actually review the play and get the catch, however if the other team picked up the ball after a fumble that would not count. Now, the rule on the fumble may have changed, however, two years ago Denver reviewed a play and got the ball 20 yards downfield even though the defensive team stripped the ball recovered and returned the ball 25 yards. They ruled incomplete thus no fumble. Shanahan reviewed and they said Denver ball at teh spot of the catch and because the whistle blew no fumble. That is why instant replay has so many flaws. I could go on and on about that as it has ruined teh game IMO...another time (and this from someone who was a huge supporter of it)

 

[The Jerk]

"""The play: Jerramy Stevens drops a pass from Matt Hasselbeck early in the second quarter that would have given the Seahawks a first down. Replays show that Stevens might actually have made a catch then fumbled.

The gripe: Was that a catch and fumble? And if so can the Seahawks challenge and keep the ball, since it went out of bounds?

Conclusion: Because the play was ruled incomplete and blown dead, it cannot be reviewed. Had the play been ruled a fumble, Steelers linebacker James Farrior would almost certainly have recovered the ball."""

The conclusion is incorrect! An incomplete pass can be reviewed and overturned. the whistle always blows in that case. The oddity of instant replay is that the offensive team could actually review the play and get the catch, however if the other team picked up the ball after a fumble that would not count. Now, the rule on the fumble may have changed, however, two years ago Denver reviewed a play and got the ball 20 yards downfield even though the defensive team stripped the ball recovered and returned the ball 25 yards. They ruled incomplete thus no fumble. Shanahan reviewed and they said Denver ball at teh spot of the catch and because the whistle blew no fumble. That is why instant replay has so many flaws. I could go on and on about that as it has ruined teh game IMO...another time (and this from someone who was a huge supporter of it)

Argue this one with the Seattle Times.

 

[Sheriff66]

 

[Liquid Tension]

The difference between Pittsburgh overcoming the bad calls against Indy and Seattle not overcoming bad calls to beat Pittsburgh is that the Steelers outplayed the Colts so badly that they were able to hang on and win (despite the last 8 points being the result of a terrible call by the refs). Seattle/Pittsburgh was a closely contested game and when the calls are lopsided in one favor, it CAN make a difference.

You are spot on here Ghost Rider. Sometimes the teams are close enough where the refs can make a difference. Here is the proof in my mind. I have yet to find a single person who was NOT a Pitt fan defend the officiating. I am not a Pitt fan, but I was rooting for Pitt (so I could remain objective) and Seattle slightly outplayed Pitt in the game. They might have outplayed them badly if the calls didn't keep breaking their momentum.

 

[The Jerk]

The difference between Pittsburgh overcoming the bad calls against Indy and Seattle not overcoming bad calls to beat Pittsburgh is that the Steelers outplayed the Colts so badly that they were able to hang on and win (despite the last 8 points being the result of a terrible call by the refs).  Seattle/Pittsburgh was a closely contested game and when the calls are lopsided in one favor, it CAN make a difference.

You are spot on here Ghost Rider. Sometimes the teams are close enough where the refs can make a difference. Here is the proof in my mind. I have yet to find a single person who was NOT a Pitt fan defend the officiating. I am not a Pitt fan, but I was rooting for Pitt (so I could remain objective) and Seattle slightly outplayed Pitt in the game. They might have outplayed them badly if the calls didn't keep breaking their momentum.

Are you saying that the author of that Seattle Times article is a Pitt fan? It's possible, but it seems more likely he is neutral or a Seahawk fan.

 

[apalmer]

However, I would ask you to explain how the "timing" of the calls is the fault of the officials. For example, on the penalty for holding on Locklear, the flag was being thrown before the pass was completed.

True, but in this game push offs werent being called on an 8 yard curl at the 45 yardline, nor were holds being called on 3 yard sweeps. For some reason, the flags came out during big plays.

I don't believe the officials waited until after the play was over, saw Stevens catch the ball at the 2 yard line, then threw the flag. The only exception to this is the Jackson PI, because the activity that drew the flag happened one second or so before the catch was made. You cannot get the flag out that fast.

Agreed but when the QB is holding the ball in the pocket for 5 seconds its pretty obvious what he is planning. As far as the Jackson play he didnt start reaching for the flag until after the catch, not when the infraction occured. Again, not all that unusual but another oddity.

And when the QB holds the ball in the pocket for 5 seconds, his offensive line is more likely to hold in an effort to protect his stupid ###. As for Jackson, for the 922 time, the official DID NOT WAIT UNTIL AFTER THE CATCH!! Watch the replay again and you will see him reach into his back pocket and make a throwing motion before Jackson touches the ball. However, he "whiffed" and the flag stayed in his pocket, forcing him to reach back a second time. By then, Jackson had caught the pass, but he was clearly making the call before it happened.

 

[Irish]

There have been past controversies in the NFL. In response to some fan outrage, the league office at least handed down a suspension, a fine, an apology, and in some cases, even altered the rules.

But I have never seen more fan outrage at anything like the officiating of Super Bowl XL. This needs extreme measures to fix. I said before that in this extreme case, the NFL better get on top of this and not only admit it was screwed up, but people in the Steeler organization need to do it as well.

The NFL needs to sack up and tell people there was a problem, and then tell the fans to sack up and deal with it. That is the proper way to handle this. People will understnad if you do it that way. Instead, they are giving this less concern than normal, which is wrong. If they tell the fans it was "properly officiated" and then act like the customer is wrong, they stand a pretty good chance of damaging the sport as well as the credibility of others who defend this.

Business 101 - the customer is always right. The fans are in an overwhelming majority that the game was screwed up. The polls are 2-1.

What is the NFL thinking?

I know one fan who needs to sack up and deal with it! Cowher Power!

 

[Irish]

Do people really believe that D. Jax did not push off? Seriously.

If you look at the play, there's defensive pass interference too. If we really want to be super ticky-tacky there should have been off-setting penalties ... and a TD.

Not to single you out, but these posts that whine about the refs typically show a lack of knowledge about the rules and officiating in the NFL.

 

[DoctorDetroit]

Do people really believe that D. Jax did not push off? Seriously.

If you look at the play, there's defensive pass interference too. If we really want to be super ticky-tacky there should have been off-setting penalties ... and a TD.

Not to single you out, but these posts that whine about the refs typically show a lack of knowledge about the rules and officiating in the NFL.

Not so much. What it shows is that some fans can never get over their bias no matter what the circumstances. Most of the posters are knowledgeable and neutral in fan following. You just choose to look at things from your perspective because it benefits your sleep pattern.

 

[Irish]

Immediate means immediate, as in right away, as in no time elapses from the time the contact is made, and the pulling down occurs. If the NFL wanted the rule to be "in the same motion" I'm guessing they would have used the words "in the same motion" instead of "immediate" in the rule.

Immediate, as in 'instant'? What about the second or so it would take the runners knee to hit the ground? By your reading a horsecollar is impossible. Unless it was made on a runner already lying on the turf i suppose.

I find that Pittsburgh fans who claim that this was not a horse collar are lumped in to the same group as Seattle fans who claim that Daryll Jackson hitting the pylon should have counted as a TD. Both groups lose credibility in my eyes, and both groups cannot overcome the bias they have for their team to view these calls objectively.

See post with link to video of the tackle and it's obvious that Porter grabbed the jersey.

 

[Irish]

Do people really believe that D. Jax did not push off? Seriously.

If you look at the play, there's defensive pass interference too. If we really want to be super ticky-tacky there should have been off-setting penalties ... and a TD.

Not to single you out, but these posts that whine about the refs typically show a lack of knowledge about the rules and officiating in the NFL.

Not so much. What it shows is that some fans can never get over their bias no matter what the circumstances. Most of the posters are knowledgeable and neutral in fan following. You just choose to look at things from your perspective because it benefits your sleep pattern.

I've seen quite a few posts that said Hope made illegal contact with DJax and it should have been offsetting penalties and resulting in a TD for DJax. My perspective is the same perspective the league has....offsetting penalties results in a replay of the down.

 

[Irish]

The Steelers and Seahawks were both called for 1 offensive PI penalty so I don't see why you are complaining about that. The penalty on Jackson was right in front of the official and he called it immediately.

So were the two instances of 'illegal contact' on the defender that happened a split second earlier. Cant recall the Pittsburgh call, but it certainly didnt overturn a touchdown.

False starts are probably the easiest penalties to see and the 'Hawks got 2 and the Steelers 1 so no big deal there either.

Agreed not a lot of room for interpretation.

The one Seattle penalty for a low block was a bad call, no argument there. Holding calls on KO and punt returns are pretty easy to see as well and are so comonplace that only 1 called in a game tells me that both teams were pretty good here.

Except that Seattle got flagged twice for it. Again, sometimes ref are hot on this but as has been pointed out, there actually werent that many penalties in this game. So why were penalties that are usually ignored suddenly called, and always on the Seahawks at critical times?

That brings us to the 2 offensive holding calls. I don't think one team getting 2 holding calls and the other not get any is an alarming figure. It probably happens in dozens of games during the course of a season and nothing is said about it. I can also tell you that there was a point in the season where the Steelers o-line went several games without a penalty called on them, so it is not unheard of.

Not in and of itself of course, but it has to be looked at in context. Both calls were noted by the announcers as borderline at best (and they were). Now either this game was played so damned flawlessly that the refs had to really dig to find something to do with themselves (and Seattle was just slightly less flawless), or they were ignoring/missing the 'usual' holds/pass int/ etc and calling little ones at specific times against a specific team.

So there you have it. One call was definitely bad and should not have been called. Other than that I don't see this great travesty against the Seahawks.

Its not just what was called. Its what wasnt called, when, and why. 10 penalties is indeed not a huge number. Throw out the 3 false starts and 6 out of 7 penalties in the game were called against the Seahawks. Now that seems odd. Add to it the nature and timing of those penalties and you see where the questions arise.

Now you suggest we disregard the penalties called against the Steelers so you can try and prove your point how biased the officials are. You're killing me Smalls.

 

[DoctorDetroit]

Do people really believe that D. Jax did not push off? Seriously.

If you look at the play, there's defensive pass interference too. If we really want to be super ticky-tacky there should have been off-setting penalties ... and a TD.

Not to single you out, but these posts that whine about the refs typically show a lack of knowledge about the rules and officiating in the NFL.

Not so much. What it shows is that some fans can never get over their bias no matter what the circumstances. Most of the posters are knowledgeable and neutral in fan following. You just choose to look at things from your perspective because it benefits your sleep pattern.

I've seen quite a few posts that said Hope made illegal contact with DJax and it should have been offsetting penalties and resulting in a TD for DJax. My perspective is the same perspective the league has....offsetting penalties results in a replay of the down.

I've already said the Seahawks should have won regardless of calls and they didn't step up. All I can say is that I listened to Steelers radio at the game for the first half and they said the DJAX interference call was a "questionable call" and the analyst said somethig to the effect of "I don't know about that." I think the game was called poorly and I say it as a football fan first. My team should have won and they didn't due to bad clock management, missed opportunities, mistakes, and not taking the bull by the horns. But it doesn't change my feelings that the game was not well officiated. It is a trend that has gotten scary from the beginning of this season through the Super Bowl. We don't need dialouge of this nature after a Super Bowl and I hope we never have it again. It really ends up being a drag for both fan bases of the Super Bowl teams and talked about too much by the neutral fans. I guess it keeps this forums in business and Skip Bayless busy!

 

[AB in DC]

I don't believe the officials waited until after the play was over, saw Stevens catch the ball at the 2 yard line, then threw the flag. The only exception to this is the Jackson PI, because the activity that drew the flag happened one second or so before the catch was made. You cannot get the flag out that fast.

Agreed but when the QB is holding the ball in the pocket for 5 seconds its pretty obvious what he is planning.

Once again, this thread drifts back into fantasyland.

 

[ChromeWeasel]

The difference between Pittsburgh overcoming the bad calls against Indy and Seattle not overcoming bad calls to beat Pittsburgh is that the Steelers outplayed the Colts so badly that they were able to hang on and win (despite the last 8 points being the result of a terrible call by the refs). Seattle/Pittsburgh was a closely contested game and when the calls are lopsided in one favor, it CAN make a difference.

You are spot on here Ghost Rider. Sometimes the teams are close enough where the refs can make a difference. Here is the proof in my mind. I have yet to find a single person who was NOT a Pitt fan defend the officiating. I am not a Pitt fan, but I was rooting for Pitt (so I could remain objective) and Seattle slightly outplayed Pitt in the game. They might have outplayed them badly if the calls didn't keep breaking their momentum.

I'm not a Steelers fan and I'm defending the officiating. I'm a Pats fan who wanted the Seahawks to win. The game was officiated well overall. There's only call worth complaining about is the low block on the return. Everything else is just sour grapes or flat out ignorance. Every other call has been analyzed and upheld under scrutiny.Frankly the people here still whining about the calls are pathetic. The game is over. Crying about the calls wont change that and it wont taint the fact that the Steelers have 5 rings. Look at the footage of the calls and move on.

 

[Irish]

The difference between Pittsburgh overcoming the bad calls against Indy and Seattle not overcoming bad calls to beat Pittsburgh is that the Steelers outplayed the Colts so badly that they were able to hang on and win (despite the last 8 points being the result of a terrible call by the refs). Seattle/Pittsburgh was a closely contested game and when the calls are lopsided in one favor, it CAN make a difference.

You are spot on here Ghost Rider. Sometimes the teams are close enough where the refs can make a difference. Here is the proof in my mind. I have yet to find a single person who was NOT a Pitt fan defend the officiating. I am not a Pitt fan, but I was rooting for Pitt (so I could remain objective) and Seattle slightly outplayed Pitt in the game. They might have outplayed them badly if the calls didn't keep breaking their momentum.

I'm not a Steelers fan and I'm defending the officiating. I'm a Pats fan who wanted the Seahawks to win. The game was officiated well overall. There's only call worth complaining about is the low block on the return. Everything else is just sour grapes or flat out ignorance. Every other call has been analyzed and upheld under scrutiny.Frankly the people here still whining about the calls are pathetic. The game is over. Crying about the calls wont change that and it wont taint the fact that the Steelers have 5 rings. Look at the footage of the calls and move on.

 

[PMENFAN]

There have been past controversies in the NFL. In response to some fan outrage, the league office at least handed down a suspension, a fine, an apology, and in some cases, even altered the rules.

I think you're patently wrong here. From my view, the league under Paul Tags has been a model of integrity and consistency. When there have been mistakes, they've admitted them. On suspensions, they follow through, even for the superstars like Ricky Williams. The improper way to run a business is to bow to the wants of the customer, as opposed to the integrity of the game. And at last, anybody who thinks business defaults to "the customer is always right" is a customer, and has never had a sniff at making business decisions.

All of the rules were followed by the book

All of the rules were followed by the book when it came to the Seahawks, but not the Steelers.Seahawks RT Locklear got called for a crucial holding penalty but Steelers RT Max Starks was holding all game long.

Seahawks WR D-Jax got called for offensive pass interference negating a TD but the Steelers got away with it on several occasions.

And so on and so forth.

Most of the people are complaining about stuff they don't know about, especially the friggin' sports media.

All of the rules were followed by the book and this fact seems to be lost on those complaining about the calls. The NFL came out and stated this but some people can't get it through their thick skulls, they would rather whine and cry about it.

Sorry, but this is as weak as the NFL's defense or lack there of. You aren't addressing the question, but rather attacking the knowledge of those arguing on the other side.Both sides can disect the individual calls in question and debate whether they follow the letter of the law. However, you would then need to examine every play by both sides to see how often the same standard was applied.

This needs to move beyond what happened in the Super Bowl. Steeler fans would be screaming to high heaven that they were robbed (rightfully so) if Indy had won that game after the Polomalu (non) interception. If you think everything is perfect with NFL officiating then fine, but don't make a peep the next time your team comes out on the wrong end of the calls.

The majority of NFL fans think that officiating needs to be improved, and many rational people have made suggestions on how it can happen.

Is the officiating in any game perfect? NOt just football, but any sport? It cannot be. It relies on angle, not having other bodies in the way, and many other factors. I think the single best suggestion I've heard are cameras that look down the line to determine if the plane is broken. A second camera looking up just inside of the pylon to determine whether punts, or fumbles, cross the goal line or the sideline first. This is a cheap, effective solution.

But, back to this exchange. This started with three perceived bad calls in the game. Once told that the calls were right, people want to say that Seattle was jobbed and getting bad calls against them. It was a 7-3 penalty disadvantage for Seattle. Neither team was called a lot. I thought the three big calls were the right call. But, because I am an honest fan, I KNOW that there were missed calls on both sides of the ball. It happens. HOlding happens a lot on the interior line, and is not called. Why? Because there's too many bodies. What gets called? Generally when you hook your man after getting beat. That is alway called, because it's obvious. The Lochlear call was marginal, but it was a hold. You either support the integrity of the game and want the refs to make the calls they see, or you don't. I support it, and want them to make the calls they see. Will they be right every time? Absolutely not. Game speed, split second decisions are never 100%. Compare it to every QB hitting every open receiver, or every WR catching every ball that hits him in the hands, or every RB getting every ball put away and tucked away. It's an imperfect world, and if you don't want to watch football because if they're not going to catch every penalty, I suggest you find something else to do w/ your Sundays.

Right now, I think the fans merely want a major admission of wrong-doing. The fans are hot. Real hot. I don't think they've ever been more upset. By saying the game was "properly officiated", the NFL has upset these fans even more.

Here is what is happening right now. I bet there is an army of small-time reporters out there who see a gigantic bulls-eye painted on the NFL's back. They will dig, and dig, and dig. They are digging because they know that with the fans this hot, if they can find anything to make the NFL look illegitimate, even if it has absolutely nothing to do with Super Bowl XL, it will be huge for them. To go from a small-time reporter to "The Reporter That Exposed The NFL - that makes a career for those people. Normally, there are probably always a few targetting the NFL like this. Now they are gonna get an anal exam like they wouldn't believe.

The NFL could have fixed this by racing out there and admitting the game was screwed up. That satisfies the fans to a large extent. Instead, this story simmers. The fans stay hot. And those reporters will dig, racing each other to find something first. The 2000 election is an example of this.

And if they find anything, the media will utterly turn on the NFL. It will turn the NFL into a circus to get ratings. And then fans will go from wanting an apology to wanting Tagliabue's head. And sometimes, the media just blows something small out of proportion to get this job done, anyway.

The NFL needs to clean up its house first before the media does it for them. But it may already be too late with the "properly officiated" disaster for a comment. Plus the threat to fine Holmgren.

What you're implying here is that somebody is going to scoop a cheating scandal of some sort. It aint going to happen. The NFL doesn't give a rats #### what team wins, or even gets to the SB. They set viewership records w/ this one, though Pitt and Seattle could hardly be considered the most marketable, or even largest market teams. Racing out there and admitting to something that isn't factual doesn't fix anything. Any fan that wants TAg's head hasn't a clue about how much he has meant to creating the league we see today. We have teams going from 3-13 adn 5-11 to win SB's the next year. Not just that, the new markets. The NFL Sunday Ticket (though I keep pushing for them to offer it on Dish and Cable), the NFL Network. All of these things that he's brought to the league. It's never been more popular, or more wide open. Think about it, the last team to get into the playoffs just won the SB. That's great competition in my book. And, it has much to do w/ the policies Tags has brought to the game.

I don't think the problem is whether or not the penalties were called correctly in a "technical" manner or not in this game (and almost all of the other games), the problem is the consistency of the calls. And this is a problem ALL season long.

Player on Team A commits a sort of ticky tacky foul and gets flagged for it. Player on Team B commits the same foul but knocks the crap of his opponent and walks away without a penalty. Yes, they both technically commited the same foul but one was a hangnail that got yanked out by the root and the other one was a train wreck where the person that caused the wreck is awarded a medal.

Just like the umpire behind the plate calling balls and strikes it is very important that the football refs call the fouls in a consistent manner so the players understand what they can and cannot do. NFL refs fail at this important aspect of refereeing in an abysmal way.

They do call what they see. You say you don't care if they were called right in a technical manner, then move to a theoretical scenario that didn't happen. Yes, if you break down 12 camera angles, in slow motion, over 15 minutes, you will find calls that single refs miss at game speed. But, do we want to wait 15 minutes between plays for that to happen? The players know the rules. If they don't want to get flagged, don't hold, don't push off, basically don't commit penalties. Balls and strikes are very different. One man, right behind the plate. Even though you may disagree, they're right most of the time. But, you still have the judgement calls on the corners. If a pitcher throws off the left field side of the rubber, and throws a slider that hits the front right field corner, it will be caught 8" off the plate, because of physics. It's an unhittable strike, but people whine when it's caught. I'm not saying home plate umps are perfect, but that they do a good job. Some are tight and some are loose, but they are always consistent.

Just a poll I found on what people seem to think about the superbowl and the officiating.

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnatio...=thepulse060206

Whether or not you think the officials really sucked or not the fact is a real majority does believe that the officials really sucked it up and something should be done for next year.

These polls are so misleading. Heck, many people at the SB party I was at thought the DJax TD at the half should have counted. Why? Because they don't know the rules. In a game of this magnitude, you have many non-fans, or even casual fans, watching, that don't know the rules of the game. They'll think bad calls were made, becasue of their ignorance. Maybe we should put 22 officials on the field, with each focusing on each player. They'd get more calls, but I think most people would realize that it would detract from the game, becasue of the clutter. It is a game speed game, and each time a player holds, or clips, or commits any penalty, they take the chance that they get seen. It's their choice.

But, don't come to me telling me how Seattle got too many calls against them when they only had 7 penalties. And, don't start a debate about 3 plays, and when you're proven wrong on those 3 move into generalizations that the refs jobbed them.

Seattle lost because they gave up a 3rd and 28. Then they gave up a 76 yard run, and then they gave up a TD on a 46 yard WR pass. We also have to consider Shawn Alexander averaging 4.8, but not getting the ball more, or the 4 Stevens drops. The lack of effort from Jackson on that close TD just before half. He didn't even try to get his feet in. I don't think he knew where he was on the field, to be honest. I think he thought he had more room. That's a DJax mental error, not because of the refs. Seattle was simply outplayed. Yes, they gained a few more yards, and had 1 less TO, and they got more 1st downs. They didn't get the big plays that lead to scores though, but Pitt did, and that's what won the game for them.

 

[PMENFAN]

I've already said the Seahawks should have won regardless of calls and they didn't step up. All I can say is that I listened to Steelers radio at the game for the first half and they said the DJAX interference call was a "questionable call" and the analyst said somethig to the effect of "I don't know about that." I think the game was called poorly and I say it as a football fan first.

Nobody has said it wasn't a questionable call. The point is that when you are a receiver and put a stiff arm to the defenders chest to create seperation, and do it in front of a ref, you will get called. Had the angle been slightly different, and the defenders back blocking the view, I don't thinnk enough advantage was gained that he would have seen it. I think every body is in agreement that this was PI. What those against it are saying is that it was 'ticky tack' or 'questionable'. Yes it was, but that's still a penalty.

 

[nerangers]

Sorry...been without Internet since Tuesday! grrr

As a Patriot fan, I felt like the officiating was bad at the Pats vs Broncos game. I can understand how Seattle fans must feel. The officiating was not the only thing that caused Seattle to lose the SB though.

I did some searching on the net...and just strung some info together (from NFL.com, MSNBC.com, USATODAY.com)

Officiating was off all year, so it is no suprise it would be in the Super Bowl.

Best possible team of Refs were on the field.

The Super Bowl XL officiating crew collectively has 58 years of NFL officiating experience and 40 combined postseason game assignments, including three Super Bowls. The Super Bowl crew headed by Leavy was comprised of officials who graded out best at each position during the regular season.

While both teams were plagued by controversial calls and penalties, Seattle was roundly criticized for dropped balls, poor clock management, and a game ending interception on a drive deep into Pittsburgh territory.

Holgren's take:

Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren has expressed dismay over the officiating since the Super Bowl last Sunday, but neither he nor his players have publicly denigrated Pittsburgh’s victory.

“We knew it was going to be tough going up against the Pittsburgh Steelers,” Holmgren told the fans at Qwest Field. “I didn’t know we were going to have to play the guys in the striped shirts as well.”

The officiating, though, has been a the major topic of discussion since Sunday night. Right after the game, Seahawks coach Mike Holmgren suggested that a first-quarter offensive interference call on the Seahawks’ Darrell Jackson, negating what would have been the game’s first touchdown, probably should have been “a no call.”

"Penalties, as much as anything, were the story of the game, and that's unfortunate," Holmgren said. "It might be the first time I've said that in my entire life."

The Questionable Calls (four of them):

1. Replays on the offensive interference call showed that Jackson’s arms made contact with Pittsburgh’s Chris Hope and that they separated afterward. Under the rules, pass interference took place but sometimes the call isn’t made.2. The first TD of the game scored on a third-down rollout by Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger late in the first half. Roethlisberger appeared to come down short of the goal line, but it was unclear on replay whether he had gotten the ball to the line before going down. Referee Bill Leavy upheld the call because there was not enough incontrovertible evidence to overturn it.

3. Holding call on Sean Locklear in the fourth: Locklear’s penalty erased an 18-yard completion from Matt Hasselbeck to Jerramy Stevens to the Pittsburgh 1 that would have put the Seahawks in position to go ahead 17-14 with around 12 minutes left. It was a close call that was difficult to see on replay.

4. One call that clearly appeared erroneous came after that penalty, when Hasselbeck threw an interception to Pittsburgh’s Ike Taylor, then made the tackle but was called for a block below the waist, giving the Steelers an extra 15 yards. They scored soon afterward on a pass from Antwaan Randle El to Hines Ward. Replays showed Hasselbeck never made contact with the player he was supposed to have hit illegally, instead going straight to Taylor to make the tackle.

Madden's and Michael's Take:

The first and worst one was surely the made-up pass interference penalty against Darrell Jackson in the first quarter that took a Seahawks touchdown off the board. Steelers free safety Chris Hope grabs Jackson and Jackson gets away; then Hope grabs Jackson again and Jackson hits Hope's hand away and catches the touchdown. It even prompted John Madden to comment, "When you think of push-offs, that's not the kind you think about, really." That call just doesn't get made. Ever.

Madden said it perfectly: "[sean] Locklear makes a pretty good move with that right arm. Ooh, I didn't see holding."

Two plays later, Joey Porter commits a horse-collar tackle on Shaun Alexander, yet he is not called for a penalty. Al Michaels said of the play: "close to a horse-collar, but no call." No, Al, it was a horse-collard. But you're right about the no call.

On the next play, Matt Hasselbeck throws an interception and is then called for the absurd "block below the waist" penalty, despite never hitting the blocker below the waist. Hasselbeck tackled the ball carrier low, which is legal. Here's Al Michaels again:"Here's the deal on this play. We think it's a bad call. If Hasselbeck is making a tackle, he can go low. If you go low on a blocker, and the call was that he went low on 26 Townsend, that was a cut." Of course, he never even touched Townsend, though Townsend did push Hasselbeck in the back, which should have been a penalty on the Steelers. But, as I've said, the refs decided this was the Steelers' night, so no call on them.

Other Officiating Thoughts:

The team that won the turnover battle in the SB has won 29 of the 39 previous games.

You've gotta also look at the calls that were waved off. There was an illegal hit that was called on Seattle's Michael Boulware, who was accused by the official of leading with his helmet. Of course, the official had made it up and, luckily, it was waved off. Same with the fumble by Hasselbeck in the fourth quarter; the refs were all too quick to call a fumble before instant replay showed there was no way they could keep the fumble call.

Like Holmgren, Leavy makes mistakes. Leavy and his crew made some big ones Sunday, all at Seattle's expense. The lame holding call on Sean Locklear that negated a huge (and rare) Stevens catch might've prevented Holmgren from becoming the first coach to win Super Bowls for different franchises. Then again, Holmgren might've prevented Holmgren from becoming the first coach to win Super Bowls for different franchises, with an assist from Stevens, whose grip proved to be as loose as his lips.

One of the Seahawks' seven penalties negated an 18-yard catch by Stevens to the 2-yard line in the fourth quarter. Three plays later, Matt Hasselbeck's pass for Darrell Jackson was intercepted by cornerback Ike Taylor at the Steelers' 5, leading to Antwaan Randle El's 43-yard TD pass to Hines Ward that put the game out of reach at 21-10.

Ben Roethlisberger's nine completions in Super Bowl XL tie him for third-fewest among winning quarterbacks in Super Bowl history.

I watched that whole game, and I think the officaiting hurt Seattle, but there was enough chances that they could have won the game anyway.

Edit: Not sure why the Quoting did not work...sorry.

 

[Odogs]

Do people really believe that D. Jax did not push off? Seriously.

If you look at the play, there's defensive pass interference too. If we really want to be super ticky-tacky there should have been off-setting penalties ... and a TD.

Not to single you out, but these posts that whine about the refs typically show a lack of knowledge about the rules and officiating in the NFL.

It amazes me how many people that watch football don't know some of the most basic rules.

 

[Challenge Everything]

This thread should be deleted as well as all the other threads about referees and the Superbowl.

 

[DoctorDetroit]

Ironic post from "Challenge Everything" right there

Makes you want to bump it every day for the entire offseason doesn't it?

 

[Kai's Hero]

Most of the people are complaining about stuff they don't know about, especially the friggin' sports media.

All of the rules were followed by the book and this fact seems to be lost on those complaining about the calls. The NFL came out and stated this but some people can't get it through their thick skulls, they would rather whine and cry about it.

You're a Fool. Enough said.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Most of the people are complaining about stuff they don't know about, especially the friggin' sports media.

All of the rules were followed by the book and this fact seems to be lost on those complaining about the calls.  The NFL came out and stated this but some people can't get it through their thick skulls, they would rather whine and cry about it.

You're a Fool. Enough said.

He may be a fool, but an honest fool he is.

 

[biglare66]

:IBTL:

 

[concerned_fan]

i just read an article that says the same thing... why not say there were some mistakes and move on... let the chatter die instead of acting like a cover up.

http://cbsnews.associatedpress.newsdeposit.../superbowl.html

the officiating was awful... seriously. Game altering, I don't know.. certainly ALTERING

 

[The Jerk]

i just read an article that says the same thing... why not say there were some mistakes and move on... let the chatter die instead of acting like a cover up.

http://cbsnews.associatedpress.newsdeposit.../superbowl.html

the officiating was awful... seriously. Game altering, I don't know.. certainly ALTERING

Thanks, taintedsteelxl alias.Shick! please.

 

[nerangers]

i just read an article that says the same thing... why not say there were some mistakes and move on... let the chatter die instead of acting like a cover up.

http://cbsnews.associatedpress.newsdeposit.../superbowl.html

the officiating was awful... seriously. Game altering, I don't know.. certainly ALTERING

Thanks, taintedsteelxl alias.Shick! please.

Wow!!! No Sour Grapes Here!

And within minutes (it seemed) there was already a website in place to admonish, if not embarass, the NFL into taking action on the quality of officiating of America's most popular sport. Taintedsteelxl.com is on a crusade to get a billboard positioned near Heinz Field with a message from disgruntled fans. It's mission is to "publicly humiliate" the NFL into changing their hiring practices for officials so that no fan will ever have to stomache another Superbowl with such "obvious transgressions."

Oooh add this one to the list of poor officiating....oh wait, it went against the Steelers, so it must have been a good call.

Here is one example of poor officiating: They missed a Seahawks fumble when the receiver caught the ball, took two steps, turned upfield (a football move), and got plastered by a DB half his size. The official called the play dead, which he never should have done. I have seen officials that would allow the play to continue and let the play stand the test of instant replay.

Ben was blocked in the back on the interception return, if its called and marked it moves the line of scrimmage back to at least midfield. it wasn't setting up Seattle for a short TD throw.

That website is a real Gem...some of the threads totally made me laugh. Love the "NFL Fans United For Justice" line! Shouldn't it be "SEATTLE Fans United For Justice?" TaintedSteelXL says he is not a Seahawks fan, but Billboardboy is (the two founders of the site).

What the most pathetic thing I saw in the SB is the continuous crying from the Hawk fans, which apparently are mostly bandwagen fans. I say they are bandwagon fans, because if they had anything to do with football the last couple years, they would have seen the change brought on my the Colts with the pass interference and holding calls (mainly by #####ing about the Patriots) and the officiating would have been surprising. Funny that there are not other fans complaining about officiating (like the Boncos/Steelers or the Colts/Steelers or the Broncos/Patriots etc) just the baby bandwagon fans that don't know how the game is played and officiated. Ref's are human and make mistakes (like the low block call on Hasselback, or the "fumble" call on stevens, or the missed block in the back on Big Ben on the int return). If there would have been a perfect game called by the refs the Steelers still would have won. Stop crying and start planning for your playoff run next year. Maybe next time your receivers can actually catch the ball and win the game. All you Hawkbabies have alot to look forward to so enjoy the next few years while your team will should be in contention.

 

[Irish]

Most of the people are complaining about stuff they don't know about, especially the friggin' sports media.

All of the rules were followed by the book and this fact seems to be lost on those complaining about the calls. The NFL came out and stated this but some people can't get it through their thick skulls, they would rather whine and cry about it.

You're a Fool. Enough said.

I hope that during the offseason these football fans that are whining about the officials will read up on the rules of the game and become informed football fans for next season instead of just plain wrong whiny fans. Sure the officials weren't perfect in the Superbowl, but they're human and the calls were no different than any other game during the reg season. Instead of wasting your time whining about the refs, get yourself educated on the rules. Enjoy the offseason, I know I am.

 

[nerangers]

Most of the people are complaining about stuff they don't know about, especially the friggin' sports media.

All of the rules were followed by the book and this fact seems to be lost on those complaining about the calls.  The NFL came out and stated this but some people can't get it through their thick skulls, they would rather whine and cry about it.

You're a Fool. Enough said.

I hope that during the offseason these football fans that are whining about the officials will read up on the rules of the game and become informed football fans for next season instead of just plain wrong whiny fans. Sure the officials weren't perfect in the Superbowl, but they're human and the calls were no different than any other game during the reg season. Instead of wasting your time whining about the refs, get yourself educated on the rules. Enjoy the offseason, I know I am.

NFL has a nice page for Football Rules: NFL Fans - Digest of Rules

 

[Big Score]

I've seen quite a few one posts that said Hope made illegal contact with DJax and it should have been offsetting penalties and resulting in a TD for DJax. My perspective is the same perspective the league has....offsetting penalties results in a replay of the down.

Fixed it for you Irish.

 

[Big Score]

I have yet to find a single person who was NOT a Pitt fan defend the officiating.

 

[3C's]

Most of the people are complaining about stuff they don't know about, especially the friggin' sports media.

All of the rules were followed by the book and this fact seems to be lost on those complaining about the calls. The NFL came out and stated this but some people can't get it through their thick skulls, they would rather whine and cry about it.

You're a Fool. Enough said.

I hope that during the offseason these football fans that are whining about the officials will read up on the rules of the game and become informed football fans for next season instead of just plain wrong whiny fans. Sure the officials weren't perfect in the Superbowl, but they're human and the calls were no different than any other game during the reg season. Instead of wasting your time whining about the refs, get yourself educated on the rules. Enjoy the offseason, I know I am.

NFL has a nice page for Football Rules: NFL Fans - Digest of Rules

Even better. Rulebook.

 

[Big Score]

I'm not sure I can take another Super Bore like that one. I could care less who won, but the officiating was poor and uneven, and I think it greatly effected the game. A better called game might not of helped the Hawks win, but it could of at least made it interesting.

 

[nerangers]

I have yet to find a single person who was NOT a Pitt fan defend the officiating.

Not a Steelers fan...and I don't think Steeler Fans are defending the officiating (a few bad calls against the Steelers as well, just not as costly). The key is that the Seahawks could have still won dispite the officiating. Drop balls, bad clock management, missed field goals, receptions not caught inbounds, and a key interception has to contribute to this loss as well...seems this is forgotten at times.

 

[nerangers]

Most of the people are complaining about stuff they don't know about, especially the friggin' sports media.

All of the rules were followed by the book and this fact seems to be lost on those complaining about the calls.  The NFL came out and stated this but some people can't get it through their thick skulls, they would rather whine and cry about it.

You're a Fool. Enough said.

I hope that during the offseason these football fans that are whining about the officials will read up on the rules of the game and become informed football fans for next season instead of just plain wrong whiny fans. Sure the officials weren't perfect in the Superbowl, but they're human and the calls were no different than any other game during the reg season. Instead of wasting your time whining about the refs, get yourself educated on the rules. Enjoy the offseason, I know I am.

NFL has a nice page for Football Rules: NFL Fans - Digest of Rules

Even better. Rulebook.

Did you notice the ref in yellow and black behind Brady? I kid you not!

 

[Big Score]

For all those that are saying everything was hunky dorey and that it was not a terribly reffed game are just as bad as those who are crying about how it should have been a Jackson TD. It lies somehwere in the middle and the Steeler fans who are denying all the calls are no better than the Seahawk fans who are crying about every call.

 

[PMENFAN]

What about us saying that there is no practical way to call every penalty, and that you will have to just sack up and acknowledge that? The refs simply can't see everything, we just have to acknowledge that. They will miss calls. What looks clearly to be ob on one angle is clearly in on another. Most people realize this. It's why penalties are not reviewable.

Bottom line, the refs are doing the best they can. They are not going to be 100% anymore than anybody else on the field. Live with it. If you can't, they also have NASCAR on Sunday, don't they?

 

[Big Score]

It just was not an enjoyable game to watch.

 

[Workhorse]

What about us saying that there is no practical way to call every penalty, and that you will have to just sack up and acknowledge that? The refs simply can't see everything, we just have to acknowledge that. They will miss calls. What looks clearly to be ob on one angle is clearly in on another. Most people realize this. It's why penalties are not reviewable.

Bottom line, the refs are doing the best they can. They are not going to be 100% anymore than anybody else on the field. Live with it. If you can't, they also have NASCAR on Sunday, don't they?

Regardless of how you feel about the Super Bowl itself, the officiating in this year's playoffs was disappointing. The inconsistency of judgement calls aside, I see a much bigger issueart-time refs are not athletic enough to get into position to make proper calls.

 

[Irish]

I've seen quite a few one posts that said Hope made illegal contact with DJax and it should have been offsetting penalties and resulting in a TD for DJax. My perspective is the same perspective the league has....offsetting penalties results in a replay of the down.

Fixed it for you Irish.

Just like the Superbowl, Big Score sees what he wants to see.

 

[Challenge Everything]

Not a Steelers fan...and I don't think Steeler Fans are defending the officiating (a few bad calls against the Steelers as well, just not as costly). The key is that the Seahawks could have still won dispite the officiating. Drop balls, bad clock management, missed field goals, receptions not caught inbounds, and a key interception has to contribute to this loss as well...seems this is forgotten at times.

GOOD POSTING. Hold those accountable for the lack of effort and execution. The Seahawks had plenty of chances and failed on most of those.

 

[PMENFAN]

What about us saying that there is no practical way to call every penalty, and that you will have to just sack up and acknowledge that? The refs simply can't see everything, we just have to acknowledge that. They will miss calls. What looks clearly to be ob on one angle is clearly in on another. Most people realize this. It's why penalties are not reviewable.

Bottom line, the refs are doing the best they can. They are not going to be 100% anymore than anybody else on the field. Live with it. If you can't, they also have NASCAR on Sunday, don't they?

Regardless of how you feel about the Super Bowl itself, the officiating in this year's playoffs was disappointing. The inconsistency of judgement calls aside, I see a much bigger issueart-time refs are not athletic enough to get into position to make proper calls.

I agree full time refs would help. But, as far as this years playoffs, there was really one bad call. The Polamalu catch that wasn't. The rest of the calls I can tolerate, but that one was simply blown. When I say tolerate, I recognize the game speed and clutter of bodies, and angle can alter perception. As for getting into position, they are in the position that give's them the most likely angle to see any play in their responsibility. They don't know where they ball is going, so they're not going to be in the optimal position every time. I don't want to see Ron Carey running to a sideline because he thinks the play is going that way, and issing a call on the other side, because they run a reverse. Also, if they're in motion, they're going to further bring perception into the equation, and that is the main gripe right now. Bottom line, I think people have unrealistic expectations on what the refs can and will be able to see.

 

[Big Score]

I've seen quite a few one posts that said Hope made illegal contact with DJax and it should have been offsetting penalties and resulting in a TD for DJax.  My perspective is the same perspective the league has....offsetting penalties results in a replay of the down.

Fixed it for you Irish.

Just like the Superbowl, Big Score sees what he wants to see.

No Irish, I see what is actually in front of me and do not make stuff up.In this entire 6 page thread (to date), there has been only ONE poster...not..."quite a few" to say that off-setting penalties would have been a Jackson TD.

If I'm only seeing what I want to see, please find the "quite a few" posters in this thread, who have said off-setting penalties would've resulted in a Jackson TD. Word of advice Irish, don't waste your time. You'll only find one and that's Portis 26 from the 1st page.

 

[CalBear]

Part-time refs are not athletic enough to get into position to make proper calls.

Once again, baseball has full-time refs, and most of them are completely unathletic, and it does affect the game. It's a question of what you make the job requirements, not how the refs are paid.

 

[Irish]

I've seen quite a few one posts that said Hope made illegal contact with DJax and it should have been offsetting penalties and resulting in a TD for DJax. My perspective is the same perspective the league has....offsetting penalties results in a replay of the down.

Fixed it for you Irish.

Just like the Superbowl, Big Score sees what he wants to see.

No Irish, I see what is actually in front of me and do not make stuff up.In this entire 6 page thread (to date), there has been only ONE poster...not..."quite a few" to say that off-setting penalties would have been a Jackson TD.

If I'm only seeing what I want to see, please find the "quite a few" posters in this thread, who have said off-setting penalties would've resulted in a Jackson TD. Word of advice Irish, don't waste your time. You'll only find one and that's Portis 26 from the 1st page.

Point out to me where I said they were all in this thread. Again you're seeing only what you want to see.

 

[DropKick]

Just curious, but what (debatable) call went against Pittsburgh in the entire game?

The Stephens non-fumble went against Seattle and there is no guarantee that ball could've been recovered before it went out of bounds. I think this was a big tactical mistake by Holmgren however - this play should bave been reviewed and may have been overturned.

The overturn of Hasselbeck's "fumble" was obvious as he was clearly down by contact.

I don't subcribe to the notion that the broadcasters were pro-Seattle. In fact, part of the problem, is the apparent gag order on commenting on the calls. Why aren't more replays shown of critical calls? Did they ever show the penalty on Warrick's punt return? I remember a replay but no one pointed out the foul. Even the key Locklear holding call was just shown once. The failure to show/discuss such plays contributes to the perception the game isn't being called correctly. And this on the heels of other questionable officiating, Ie. Pittsburgh/Indy, Denver/New England.

I've watched the NFL for 35 years and try to remain as objective as possible. I think the D-Jax call was correct - he did create separation with the push. (The bigger issue to me is consistency). I also think the Locklear hold fit the NFL definition - they key being the feet and the defender had beat him to the outside. But, I think Big Ben's TD was sloppily officiated. The guy appeared to be ruling the ball short and seems to change his mind when he sees the ball in the end-zone. Hard not to be critical here.

As an unbiased viewer of the game, the calls never evened out and the game ended with a weird "unfulfilled" quality, especially for a Super Bowl.