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The OFFICIAL 2007 Boston Red Sox Thread (1 Viewer)
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the moops
Footballguy
Man. Gagne has been awful. Goes from a miniscule whip of 1.00 in Texas, to a astronomical 2.60 in Boston.
The tough part is that he is going to be thrown out there every other day no matter what.
Here's to him pulling it together, soon.
---Youks got screwed on that foul tip no-call.
The tough part is that he is going to be thrown out there every other day no matter what.
Here's to him pulling it together, soon.---Youks got screwed on that foul tip no-call.
the moops
Footballguy
How about Eric "I may suck as a Red Sock, but at least I'm not 5+ games out of 1st and still looking in from the outside for a wildcard birth" Gagne?When all is said and done, Gagne could be the Yanks MVP.
ThisGuy
Ignored by Nipsey
How about Eric "I may suck as a Red Sock, but at least I'm not 5+ games out of 1st and still looking in from the outside for a wildcard birth" Gagne?When all is said and done, Gagne could be the Yanks MVP.
I didn't realize it hurt that much. Put the claws back, Kitty.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
No, I would say Yanks MVP is a little more accurate right now. That was a HUGE win that he just threw away. Great comeback against F-Rod and then Gagne walks the #9 hitter. Nice job GAGME. Why use Okajima for 1 2/3 in the first game when it was a rocking chair game where they were never really challenged. If you have already decided that Papelbon cant close both games today, dont you have to set up for Papelbon to close one and Okajima the other? Why use Oki and Pap in the same game and make them unavailable for game 2?How about Eric "I may suck as a Red Sock, but at least I'm not 5+ games out of 1st and still looking in from the outside for a wildcard birth" Gagne?When all is said and done, Gagne could be the Yanks MVP.Nicknames:Eric the Red(suck)Eric GagmeKyle FarnsworthI haven't decided my favorite yet.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
That makes 10 ER in 6 IP for Gagne.
Pat Patriot
Footballguy
I understand that the Sox are babying Papelbon. That being said, how do you set up your day thinking the first save situation goes to Papelbon and the second goes to Gagne? Francona cant honestly consider Gagne to be the "back up" closer at this stage. That designation has to go to Oki and maybe Timlin third now.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
Why Papelbon even sees game one is beyond me. A four run lead in the 9th and you bring in your best closer even though you have another game that night? The ballboy should have been pitching before Papelbon....but hey, as far as the Yanks go......Tito made a good move.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
It's hard to figure out because games go 9 innings and the Red Sox didn't deserve anything. They may have put themselves in a good position to win, but that didn't happen. Btw, the Yankees deserved to win the 2004 ALCS and World Series. Try figuring that one out.I think the sentiment is that anytime your starters pitch 21+ innings in 3 games and give up a total of 3 runs, you should win at least 2/3. Why is that so hard to figure out?This is what DC Thunder was pointing out originally. The Sox shouldn't have swept, and they didn't deserve 2/3. Where is this entitlement coming from besides the payroll?wow, lot of misinformation in here...where should I startWily Mo got jobbed on a check swing that was called a strike even though it wasn't close...the knee-high fastball 'ball' call was a makeup for that. So the karma was already evened out thereHey Saux fans, all this stuff about how you should have swept the O's is sort of absurd. Bedard gets out of the jam in the 8th on Friday if the umpire calls either the check swing or the pitch on the corner to Wily Mo properly. Pena struck out TWICE in the same at bat before he gets that soft single that starts the big rally. So it's only baseball karma evening up that the O's come back to win on Markakis' SF. (Don't forget that rally from 5 down in the 9th back in Boston on Mothers Day. Lots of karma coming home to roost in this series)
Saturday game I'll give you. Beckett is awesome.
Sunday, you only got 3 runs off of Traschel. With that line-up you should be ashamed. And again, Gag-me does throw 9 straight fastballs to Miggy, and anybody can hit an HR if they know a mid 80s fastball is coming.
So I'd say that getting 1 out of 3 is about what the Saux should have expected. Your problem is the Yankees are playing so hot right now that this isn't good enough.
And Gagne was hitting 96 on the gun with his fastball, not 80s...
Other then that, looked pretty good. Sox deserved 2/3, but #### happens
wilked
Footballguy
avoiding injuries is right, nobody deserves anything. Seriously, that was well spoken
As for Tito pitching Papelbon in the first game, that was the right decision, lock up the first game and you are freerolling the second. Gagne sucked again - I really don't have much to say to that.
Good win tonight, nice to see Ortiz making it ring strong. The Sox are in a strong position for AL East Champions, that is nice. They will be up 6-8 games when the Yankees come to town, and what more can you ask for?
As for Tito pitching Papelbon in the first game, that was the right decision, lock up the first game and you are freerolling the second. Gagne sucked again - I really don't have much to say to that.
Good win tonight, nice to see Ortiz making it ring strong. The Sox are in a strong position for AL East Champions, that is nice. They will be up 6-8 games when the Yankees come to town, and what more can you ask for?
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
easy.. gagworth.When all is said and done, Gagne could be the Yanks MVP.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
DREW IN THE CLUTCH!!!!! 
Worth every penny. 
Worth every penny. Darth Cheney
Footballguy
giving up two hits again..... What did they give up for this clown?
wilked
Footballguy
one was an error, no need to hang him unnecessarily. He did strike out the side, but still looks quite shaky
Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll
Footballguy
Being a LA Dodgers fan, I sure am uncomfortable with that subtitle...
AA, or maybe OCA, I don't know.
AA, or maybe OCA, I don't know.
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[icon]
Insoxicated
Ugh... rough series. Bats have gone back to sleep. Frustrating.
Good News: Sox have a cake schedule the rest of the way:
Tampa Bay: 9 (3 at home) - Should go 6-3
Chicago: 4 (0 at home) - Should go 2-2
New York: 6 (3 at home) - Should go 3-3
Baltimore: 7 (3 at home) - Should go 4-3
Toronto: 6 (3 at home) - Should go 4-2
Oakland: 2 (2 at home) - Should go 1-1
Minny: 4 (4 at home) - Should go 2-2
The rest of the way the sox should go 22-16 , finishing with a 96-66 Record
Bad news... this offense needs to get firing on all cylinders and soon or they are in trouble in hte playoffs.
Good News: Sox have a cake schedule the rest of the way:
Tampa Bay: 9 (3 at home) - Should go 6-3
Chicago: 4 (0 at home) - Should go 2-2
New York: 6 (3 at home) - Should go 3-3
Baltimore: 7 (3 at home) - Should go 4-3
Toronto: 6 (3 at home) - Should go 4-2
Oakland: 2 (2 at home) - Should go 1-1
Minny: 4 (4 at home) - Should go 2-2
The rest of the way the sox should go 22-16 , finishing with a 96-66 Record
Bad news... this offense needs to get firing on all cylinders and soon or they are in trouble in hte playoffs.
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the moops
Footballguy
As Wilked said...one was definitely an error on Pedroia. His changeup looked nasty today.He hasn't looked great, no doubt, but he has had some real bad luck on balls in play. Bad combination of bad luck and not pitching the greatest.Darth Cheney said:giving up two hits again..... What did they give up for this clown?
Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
[icon] said:
Been watching baseball since the All-Star break?
Colin Dowling
Footballguy
Assuming your predictoins are correct, that's 22-16, which is hardly barnstormers.[icon] said:
[icon]
Insoxicated
WHat part of my post gave you the impression that I felt it WAS barndstormers?
Perhaps you missed the point of the post. Let me simplify it down for ColinSpeak...Good News: Schedule EasyBad News: Offense needed or team in troubleBetter?
[icon]
Insoxicated
The Red Sox and yankees have been playing .500 ball against each other every year for several years running. It's possible the series COULD go 4-2 but I think 3-3 is a pretty reasonable assumption for this exercise.[icon] said:
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
my changes in bold... 24-12--98-64[icon] said:
Capella
Footballguy
The Rays suck, but 7-2 against any team when you're playing 2/3 of the game on the road is pretty ambitious. Probably going to see Kaz and Shields for 4 of those as well.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
I think 4-3 against the O's right now is getting ambitious too, especially if you draw Bedard twice. Might only swing a game to 4-3, but they are playing above their heads right now.
wilked
Footballguy
Here's the probables through the Yankees series. I would predict series wins for TB and NYY, and a split in Chi
At TB:
Wake vs Kazmir
Lester vs Sonnanstine (2-8, 6.17)
Dice vs Jackson (3-12, 5.69)
At CHI:
Beckett vs Danks (6-11, 5.30)
Schill vs Garland (8-9, 4.84)
Wake vs Buehrle (9-8, 3.36)
Lester vs Vazquez (10-6, 3.74)
At MFY:
Dice vs Andy
Becks vs Clemens
Schill vs Wang
At TB:
Wake vs Kazmir
Lester vs Sonnanstine (2-8, 6.17)
Dice vs Jackson (3-12, 5.69)
At CHI:
Beckett vs Danks (6-11, 5.30)
Schill vs Garland (8-9, 4.84)
Wake vs Buehrle (9-8, 3.36)
Lester vs Vazquez (10-6, 3.74)
At MFY:
Dice vs Andy
Becks vs Clemens
Schill vs Wang
bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
I like the way the Yankees matchups if those are the probables. I think you're overestimating the ChiSox ability to win anything at this point (worse than the Royals!)
wilked
Footballguy
Soemthing else I read....
Kazmir has only missed one series against the Sox in the last three years. Out of a possible 14 series from 2005 through 2007, he will now have pitched in 13 of them
I ran some quick numbers, and assuming a 5 man roptation the odds of this happening are something like 0.5%
Kazmir has only missed one series against the Sox in the last three years. Out of a possible 14 series from 2005 through 2007, he will now have pitched in 13 of them
I ran some quick numbers, and assuming a 5 man roptation the odds of this happening are something like 0.5%
wilked
Footballguy
Really? I think the Sox have a clear edge in the first two games, with the Yankees having a clear edge in the last one
bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
The sad sack Yankees of April put up 10 against Dice-K in 13 innings.Pettitte and Clemens have both been pitching very well of late, but I agree Beckett is on fire. Maybe he's due to fall back to earth?Schilling, of late, is pitching like the fat tub of goo he is.Looking at the schedule, I would say:extremely low chance of a Sox sweepdecent chance Sox win 2-1decent chance Yankees win 2-1slight chance of a Yankees sweep
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
Clear advantage Dice K over Pettite? Crazy talk.I would shift the Yanks edge in the Wang game though until he straightens out.Beckett definately has a the Clemens edge, though I think the Yanks know how to frustrate him and get to him a bit.
wilked
Footballguy
Let's play this game:
Below are the sox starters, arranged by their matchups, randomly labeled either A or B. I have taken the liberty to highlight in green where one starter had a clear statistical advantage over the other. Based on the statistics, who has the advantage for each matchup?
http://img35.picoodle.com/img/img35/9/8/20...edm_e49b66d.jpg
Below are the sox starters, arranged by their matchups, randomly labeled either A or B. I have taken the liberty to highlight in green where one starter had a clear statistical advantage over the other. Based on the statistics, who has the advantage for each matchup?
http://img35.picoodle.com/img/img35/9/8/20...edm_e49b66d.jpg
bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
I'm not going to take the time to figure out what the hell you're talking about, or why things in that chart are highlighted.
I will say this: over the course of the season, most of the Sox starters hold a statistical advantage over their Yankee counterparts.
As of right now...
Wang is struggling.
Schilling is struggling, except for a nice game at Baltimore.
Beckett is on fire.
Pettitte and Clemens are playing their best baseball of the season pretty much right now.
Dice-K has struggled mightily against the Yankees. His numbers have been pretty good all around, but the guy just doesn't really scare me.
I will say this: over the course of the season, most of the Sox starters hold a statistical advantage over their Yankee counterparts.
As of right now...
Wang is struggling.
Schilling is struggling, except for a nice game at Baltimore.
Beckett is on fire.
Pettitte and Clemens are playing their best baseball of the season pretty much right now.
Dice-K has struggled mightily against the Yankees. His numbers have been pretty good all around, but the guy just doesn't really scare me.
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wilked
Footballguy
Because he has such a large history against the Yankees? Oh wait, he has faced them twice, his 4th and 5th games in the MLB, being thrown into the middle of the NYY/BOS craziness. If that is what you are counting on as the Yankees advantage, well I am not going to stop you, but it is at a minimum short-sighted, and at most extremely foolish. I will at least give you credit for acknowledging that the Red Sox starters have better statistics this year...what I find interesting is that you throw those out the window, instead preferring things like, 'so and so doesn't scare me.'
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
The 4th and 5th game thing is a crutch, seeing as he game into those games on fire. It's not a slight to say he doesn't dominate the Yanks. Its not like the Sox don't pepper Mariano. But wake me up when he puts up as much as a quality start against the Yanks. He has beaten them, but hardly dominated them. My, and I'd guess other Yank fans, issue was the term clearly. especially at the Stadium.
wilked
Footballguy
I am sure there will be no convincing Yankee fans that DiceK can overpower them until he does...I just think it is funny to put complete faith in the 2 games he has pitched against them (both within his first 5 MLB games) and ignore the other 20+ games he has pitched
Regardless...
There is one clear advantage in the series - Beckett vs. Clemens
I suppose the other two games you can make arguments both ways...
Regardless...
There is one clear advantage in the series - Beckett vs. Clemens
I suppose the other two games you can make arguments both ways...
bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
Look, I understand that two games doesn't mean anything, but there have been plenty of pitchers in the Yankees-Sox rivalry who consistently failed to get the job done vs. the other. Pedro post-2002 and Contreras come to mind.The Yankees did not just play well against Dice-K in the first two meetings, they tattooed him. He might come out, put up 12 Ks, and throw a gem, but I am not willing yet to give him a distinct edge over Pettitte, who has a 2.68 ERA since the All-Star break with a 7.7 K/9.
Since the break, Dice-K has a 3.65 ERA with an 8.32 K/9.
And don't bring up SoS, because there's pretty much no difference between who these guys faced.
Darth Cheney
Footballguy
Josh Beckett and his 7.91 career ERA against the Bombers doesn't scare me......
neither does Schill and his 4.84....
or Dice K and his 6.92.....
In fact, there are very few players on that Boston team I would say scare me.....
neither does Schill and his 4.84....
or Dice K and his 6.92.....
In fact, there are very few players on that Boston team I would say scare me.....
ThisGuy
Ignored by Nipsey
There are 2.Ortiz and Ramirez...and Ortiz looks like he's come off the "stuff" this year.
NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
Much the same way I don't have absolute confidence in Mariano against the Sox, based on occasional failure, I don't see how you can have full faith in Matsuzaka when he's had no success with them. But talk is cheap and this is gonna be some great theater in the next 2 weeks.
wilked
Footballguy
Is this the game they tattoed him?http://mlb.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?...sp&c_id=bos
Let's pull out some quotes
He had a bad 4th inning, including these 'tattoes'
Other then that rough inning he practically owned the Yankees that game. You are using your 'tattoing' a bit loosely I would think
wilked
Footballguy
How do you ultimately measure success in baseball? Wins, and he has 2 against the Yankees. One was ugly, one was so-so, but he certainly has had success
bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
LOL wilked. LOL.
First you've resorted to using a Win as a great metric of a pitcher's success. I know you don't believe that.
And while you've mocked people before for picking and choosing months to defend Mariano's success, or lack thereof, this year, you're praising Dice-K for retiring the final 6 batters he faced in a game where he already gave up 4 runs in the first four innings. Wow. Two 1-2-3 innings. Unbelievable!
As for the hits, OK, they weren't bullets, but the "bloop single" Posada hit in front of Manny must've been decent, because Manny ain't covering much ground...it's not like it just got past the infield dirt. And the Damon hit, well...it's a hit. That leaves three other hits and four other walks in 4 innings to explain.
Dice-K has a lot of fantastic stuff, and has flashes of being a real ace, but against the Yankees and Pettitte pitching great since the break, I'm not about to declare Dice-K the obvious favorite.
If Dice-K comes out and pitches a great game, I'm still right. Pettitte's numbers since the break are as good or better, and the Yankees offense vs. the Sox offense of late isn't even close...and they've done well against the Indians and the Tigers now, so your weak opposition argument gets less and less compelling.
First you've resorted to using a Win as a great metric of a pitcher's success. I know you don't believe that.
And while you've mocked people before for picking and choosing months to defend Mariano's success, or lack thereof, this year, you're praising Dice-K for retiring the final 6 batters he faced in a game where he already gave up 4 runs in the first four innings. Wow. Two 1-2-3 innings. Unbelievable!
As for the hits, OK, they weren't bullets, but the "bloop single" Posada hit in front of Manny must've been decent, because Manny ain't covering much ground...it's not like it just got past the infield dirt. And the Damon hit, well...it's a hit. That leaves three other hits and four other walks in 4 innings to explain.
Dice-K has a lot of fantastic stuff, and has flashes of being a real ace, but against the Yankees and Pettitte pitching great since the break, I'm not about to declare Dice-K the obvious favorite.
If Dice-K comes out and pitches a great game, I'm still right. Pettitte's numbers since the break are as good or better, and the Yankees offense vs. the Sox offense of late isn't even close...and they've done well against the Indians and the Tigers now, so your weak opposition argument gets less and less compelling.
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wilked
Footballguy
He pitched 6 innings, not 4. He pitched well enough for the win and certainly deserved it. Far from the tattoing you describeI did not praise him for retiring the last 6 hitters...that was a quote from the game summary linked. Read the article and try to find the word tattoo in therebialczabub said:
I don't think a pitcher's win total is the best way to describe his performance, but to say DiceK has had no success against the Yankees when he is 2-0 is a bit ridiculous...
btw if you want to see those hits, you can access the video here
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?...sp&c_id=nyy
click on Yanks 4 run 4th. DiceK loaded the bases on walks, then Posada hit a bloop that Manny (or a regular RF) should have caught. Damon gets a hit on a check swing, and Jeter's ball was not hit hard at all just past Youks. That was their entire offense for the game... other then that DiceK dominated. Call it being selective if you'd like, but basically he lost control walking 3 guys to start then inning, then got burnt by bad luck. I am impressed he recovered to dominate the hitters the rest of the way and earn the win
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bialczabub
Lord of the Flies
Had the Yankees held the Red Sox to 4 runs, he wouldn't have gotten a win. That game is a classic example of a good offense and relief pitching bailing a starting pitcher out. It's not a quality start. Are you telling me you prefer a pitcher with two wins and 0 QS to one with 2 QS and no wins?I agree wholeheartedly that he pitched 6 innings. And over those 6, he gave up 4 earned runs. If any pitcher on the Yankees did that against the Red Sox, you'd be tearing into him. Especially if he cost over $100MM for his services. In fact, I'm almost positive if I took the time I could find you tearing into Clemens for failing to pitch a QS.
