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The OFFICIAL 2007 Boston Red Sox Thread (2 Viewers)
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shadyridr
Footballguy
Almost 50% of the Yankees 25 man roster (Pettitte, Hughes, Kennedy, Wang, Chamberlain, Rivera, Posada, Phillips, Cano, Jeter, Cabrera, Duncan) are homegrown. Isnt it amazing that the Sox and Yanks (the 2 teams with the biggest payrolls) also have 2 of the top farm systems in all of baseball? Its gonna be a hell of a rivalry for many many many years.[icon] said:Impressive last couple of days for Sox Rookies:Saturday Bucholz throws a no hitter in his 2nd MLB appearanceToday Ellsbury is a double short of the Cycle in just his 11th MLB Game.... moving his average over .450 and OPS well over 1.000PapelbonLesterYoukilisPedroiaBucholzEllsburyall homegrown.... and stacked on top of Beckett & Matsuzaka (both in low/mid 20s) at the top of the rotation.
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Insoxicated
Almost 50% of the Yankees 25 man roster (Pettitte, Hughes, Kennedy, Wang, Chamberlain, Rivera, Posada, Phillips, Cano, Jeter, Cabrera, Duncan) are homegrown. Isnt it amazing that the Sox and Yanks (the 2 teams with the biggest payrolls) also have 2 of the top farm systems in all of baseball? Its gonna be a hell of a rivalry for many many many years.[icon] said:Impressive last couple of days for Sox Rookies:Saturday Bucholz throws a no hitter in his 2nd MLB appearanceToday Ellsbury is a double short of the Cycle in just his 11th MLB Game.... moving his average over .450 and OPS well over 1.000PapelbonLesterYoukilisPedroiaBucholzEllsburyall homegrown.... and stacked on top of Beckett & Matsuzaka (both in low/mid 20s) at the top of the rotation.
I was primarily referring to our rookies or 2nd year guys but yep yep!I love watching these kids come up and succeed.... definitely beats the hell out of a slew of hired goons like Nancy Drew.
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NY/NJMFDIVER
Footballguy
Seriously??? A guy throws a no-no and gets put in the pen? Why start Lester over him?
wilked
Footballguy
Seriously? You can't figure this out on your own?They want to limit his innings...
Sammy3469
Footballguy
Yeah, his real worth right now is as the 4th starter if needed in either the ALCS or WS....there's a 50-50 shot they will only need 3 SP in the Division Series.
Alias
Footballguy
wilked
Footballguy
Actually, his real worth is as a #1/#2 starter for the next 5+ years. The Sox management have determined that the risk of injury from 30-50 more innings this year outweighs the improvement he brings as a starter over Wakefield. He still holds value as a reliever, and this scenario will keep him within his inning limit threshholdEdit to add - let's not forget that the Red Sox #4 pitcher has 16 wins on the season...he is not your typical MLB #4
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Sammy3469
Footballguy
This is where we differ, Wakefield has ton more value in the postseason as a reliever with Buchholz as a #4 starter than the other way around because of his flexibility and ability to pitch a lot of innings. I'm of the opinion that this is a move to save Buchholz's innings for the #4 SP role in the postseason since they using his innings now basically has no value. Why waste them now with a postseason berth basically clinched. I have a hard time believing he'll be used much if at all until then and I find it hard to believe he'll used anything like Joba.In any case its a nice 'problem' to havewilked said:
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wilked
Footballguy
It could be the way you propose...but if they use him as a reliever, then have to stretch him back out...I guess I don't see it as the likely scenario. Theo was VERY clear that they would not change their plans for Buch simply due to the no hitter...I wonder if he was choosign his words carefully there?
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Insoxicated
The "change of plans because of the no no" was in refernce to the hard limit on Pitches in that game as much as the soft limit on IP for the year. Wakefield has significant value in the postseason due to his change of pace from harder throwing guys. That said I would personally prefer to see a rotation of Beckett/Dice/Schilling/Buchholz w/ Wake in the pen due to his ability to go 2-3 innings every 2-3 days (assuming his back is okay). There are several Xfactors that might force Boton's hand into working Buchholz back into the rotation however:- Wakefield's back- Dice K's Fatigue / DeclineThey need to rest Dice... pehaps igve him a start or two off. Let him get his arm right again. I expect Tavarez/Lester to be used to achieve this. I don't know if i see Buchholz being held to the pen when he'd start at most 3 games in the Postseason. He's capable of delivering 20 more innings as long as low-stress side sessions keep his arm loose.
shadyridr
Footballguy
at you guys actually debating putting in a youngster who only has 2 big league starts to his credit on the playoff rotation over a proven veteran. Just cuz the kid threw a no-hitter doesnt mean he's gonna be lights out the rest of the year. Hes gonna hit some bumps along the way. Phil Hughes down?
wilked
Footballguy
Hughes <> BuchholzAnyway, shady is correct, Wake should be the #4, with Buch being a relieverat you guys actually debating putting in a youngster who only has 2 big league starts to his credit on the playoff rotation over a proven veteran. Just cuz the kid threw a no-hitter doesnt mean he's gonna be lights out the rest of the year. Hes gonna hit some bumps along the way. Phil Hughes down?
shadyridr
Footballguy
I have no clue who will be the better pitcher (nobody does) but Hughes and Bucholz are 2 highly touted starters that had dominant second starts in their big league careers. Hughes has struggled since (with an injury thrown in). Im not saying the same will happen to Clay but there is precedence here. Im just saying I wouldnt trust Clay in a playoff start over a proven solid starter in Tim. In the Yankees case they may have no better option than Hughes in the playoffs.Hughes <> BuchholzAnyway, shady is correct, Wake should be the #4, with Buch being a relieverat you guys actually debating putting in a youngster who only has 2 big league starts to his credit on the playoff rotation over a proven veteran. Just cuz the kid threw a no-hitter doesnt mean he's gonna be lights out the rest of the year. Hes gonna hit some bumps along the way. Phil Hughes down?
Workhorse
Footballguy
The difference is, Hughes got hurt and clearly isn't the same pitcher he was pre-injury.Buchholz seems pretty healthy.The knuckleball is so unpredictable. I'd take my shot with the 23 year old kid with GREAT stuff and virtually no major league scouting reports on him.I have no clue who will be the better pitcher (nobody does) but Hughes and Bucholz are 2 highly touted starters that had dominant second starts in their big league careers. Hughes has struggled since (with an injury thrown in). Im not saying the same will happen to Clay but there is precedence here. Im just saying I wouldnt trust Clay in a playoff start over a proven solid starter in Tim. In the Yankees case they may have no better option than Hughes in the playoffs.Hughes <> BuchholzAnyway, shady is correct, Wake should be the #4, with Buch being a relieverat you guys actually debating putting in a youngster who only has 2 big league starts to his credit on the playoff rotation over a proven veteran. Just cuz the kid threw a no-hitter doesnt mean he's gonna be lights out the rest of the year. Hes gonna hit some bumps along the way. Phil Hughes down?
Doctor Detroit
Please remove your headgear
Sweeping the Yankees next weekend would be nice. TIA.
shadyridr
Footballguy
Once again I say whats the purpose? All of Bostons starters can go 7 strong innings and then they'd have Okajima & Gagne to work the 7th and 8th inning anyway. I doubt we see Bucholtz pitch much in the playoffs.
wilked
Footballguy
Yes, all of Boston's starters will throw 7 strong 2ER or less throughout the playoffs. Gagne, Oki, and Papelbon will average 2 Ks per inning of relief, and Jessica Alba will wake me up in the middle of the night demanding that I slay her.
wilked
Footballguy
The knuckler didn't look good from the start. He struggled a bit... The main concern is that his back is tightening up and getting worse the deeper he goes in a game. At this point it is a wait-and-see with him...
Thorn
Footballguy
FWIW the NESN guys tonight said they had talked with Wake and he said his back felt fine.
Alias
Footballguy
Not too far off, his current stats...4.44 184IP 70BB 179K 14Wwith 14 games and 2 (maybe 3) more starts left in the regular season
the moops
Footballguy
Worst record in baseball.RAYS
Capella
Footballguy
Won't be for long. Probably won't have to wait 95 years to win a title either.Worst record in baseball.RAYS
Capella
Footballguy
I don't actually participate on the field, guy. But quoting Rays wins from 1998 and 99 as if they are meaningful now is funny shtick.63, 69, 69, 62, 55, 63, 70, 67, 61 = number of wins for the Rays the past 9 years.Keep up the good fight.Capella said:Won't be for long. Probably won't have to wait 95 years to win a title either.the moops said:Worst record in baseball.Capella said:RAYS
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the moops
Footballguy
I don't actually participate on the field, guy. But quoting Rays wins from 1998 and 99 as if they are meaningful now is funny shtick.63, 69, 69, 62, 55, 63, 70, 67, 61 = number of wins for the Rays the past 9 years.Keep up the good fight.Capella said:Won't be for long. Probably won't have to wait 95 years to win a title either.the moops said:Worst record in baseball.Capella said:RAYS
They won 61 games last year. Worse than 1998 or 1999. We don't need to go back as far as you are implying.
Capella
Footballguy
Ok.If you don't see how good this team is going to be, I'm not going to take the time to explain it to you.I don't actually participate on the field, guy. But quoting Rays wins from 1998 and 99 as if they are meaningful now is funny shtick.63, 69, 69, 62, 55, 63, 70, 67, 61 = number of wins for the Rays the past 9 years.Keep up the good fight.Capella said:Won't be for long. Probably won't have to wait 95 years to win a title either.the moops said:Worst record in baseball.Capella said:RAYS
the moops
Footballguy
I think they will be good.Don't know what that has to do with anything you have said though.Ok.If you don't see how good this team is going to be, I'm not going to take the time to explain it to you.I don't actually participate on the field, guy. But quoting Rays wins from 1998 and 99 as if they are meaningful now is funny shtick.63, 69, 69, 62, 55, 63, 70, 67, 61 = number of wins for the Rays the past 9 years.Keep up the good fight.Capella said:Won't be for long. Probably won't have to wait 95 years to win a title either.the moops said:Worst record in baseball.Capella said:RAYS
Capella
Footballguy
All I said was RAYS. You got all queefy afterwards.I think they will be good.Don't know what that has to do with anything you have said though.Ok.If you don't see how good this team is going to be, I'm not going to take the time to explain it to you.I don't actually participate on the field, guy. But quoting Rays wins from 1998 and 99 as if they are meaningful now is funny shtick.63, 69, 69, 62, 55, 63, 70, 67, 61 = number of wins for the Rays the past 9 years.Keep up the good fight.Capella said:Won't be for long. Probably won't have to wait 95 years to win a title either.the moops said:Worst record in baseball.Capella said:RAYS
the moops
Footballguy
And all I said was worst record in baseball.All I said was RAYS. You got all queefy afterwards.I think they will be good.Don't know what that has to do with anything you have said though.Ok.If you don't see how good this team is going to be, I'm not going to take the time to explain it to you.I don't actually participate on the field, guy. But quoting Rays wins from 1998 and 99 as if they are meaningful now is funny shtick.63, 69, 69, 62, 55, 63, 70, 67, 61 = number of wins for the Rays the past 9 years.Keep up the good fight.Capella said:Won't be for long. Probably won't have to wait 95 years to win a title either.the moops said:Worst record in baseball.Capella said:RAYS
Rays had a better pitcher and a better lineup tonight. They deserved the win.
the moops
Footballguy
He owns them.15 games started. 2.82 ERA. 99 Ks in 80 innings. 1/2 those stats are in Fenway too.
shadyridr
Footballguy
First of all no I did not realize that. Second of all what does that have to do with my point? You disputing the fact that Kazmir always shuts down the Sox? Jeez I wasnt insulting the Sox or anything. Just stating a fact.Darth Cheney
Footballguy
Saux fans getting a little testy in here. Maybe they're still not sure the Sawx will win the division?
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Even with those numbers I'm not sure he has a winning record against the Sox.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
I don't hink it makes all that much difference either way. The Sox and Yanks can't play each other until the second round, so one will get CLE and the other LAA. I would think both teams would rather face CLE, and if the Sox win the division they likely will face the Indians.
wilked
Footballguy
It has everything to do with your point. The team, in all likelihood, would have performed better if either one or both of their top hitters was playing. I am not implying that you are insulting the Sox, but it at least bears mentioning. But yes, Kazmir has done well against the SoxFirst of all no I did not realize that. Second of all what does that have to do with my point? You disputing the fact that Kazmir always shuts down the Sox? Jeez I wasnt insulting the Sox or anything. Just stating a fact.
David Yudkin
Footballguy
Sox mount a charge to take a 15-9 lead.
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