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The panthers would make a huge mistake by not taking Gabbert (1 Viewer)

eakfootball

Footballguy
The panthers simpley need to take a quarterback with the first pick. Maybe Newton would be the better pick, but Gabbert is less risky. While Marcell Dareus, Patrick Peterson, and DaQuan Bowers may be very good players you can't pass on a potential franschise quarterback. If they take Gabbert then start Clausen at first they could get a Kevin Kolb situation and maybe get a 1st or 2nd round pick for him in a year or too. Say Dareus becomes what we expect and is a top 5 defensive tackle will he really singlehandedly win you more than one or two games a year. With an elite defensive tackle or quarterback your downside with a bad team around him could still be a bottom feeder in the league. With a franchise quarterback the worst case scenario is the chargers last year. Jake Long has been maybe the best offensive tackle in league over the last few years (which is a more highly regarded position then DT) and over preformed expectations when he was picked #1. Still without long I still think the dolphins would only be a game or two worse. If the fins had taken Matt Ryan they would easily be a playoff team. While Gabbert is not Matt Ryan you still have to take him at one because he has a 50 to 75% chance of being a top 10 quarterback in this league. The difference between Marcell Dareus and say Muhammed Wilkerson will not win you more than 2 games over the year. And taking a quarterback with their second rounder is a waste of a pick because Locker and Mallett are not any better prospects than Clausesn. Oh wait they already wasted the pick on Armanti Edwards.

 
No, they really don't.

They need to evaluate Gabbert and come to a conclusion based upon everything they can throw at the situation.

IF Gabbert or Newton grades out well enough to invest the #1 overall, then they take either one.

Pigeonholing yourself, at the draft, based on need is a sure fire way for continuous suckage.

Its the same as if people say they the "should not" take a QB because they just took one last year in the 2nd.

That is also a unwise decision. They still need to grade out the 2 QBs and make an informed decision, which may-or-may-not include taking another QB #1 overall.

 
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Yes you can pass, because first round quarterbacks have more flops than other Panther positions of need like O and D line.

 
If I was a Panther fan I would prefer that they take Peterson, Fairley, Dareus, etc. over Gabbert and if Clausen does not develop hopefully they can take Andrew Luck next year. It would be a disaster if Carolina took Gabbert and finished with the #1 pick again and then was faced with the prospect of having to pass on Andrew Luck since they had already taken Gabbert.

 
Am I the only person here that thinks Jimmy Claussen is a better talent than both qb's (Gabbert and Newton).

If Claussen was coming out this year based on what he did in college and by what the other 2 did Claussen would be ranked as the #1 guy. Why waste the #1 overall pick on a lesser talent when you have other needs.

Draft Fairly or Darius, thats the right call.

If Claussen has another horrible year you will get a crack at Luck or Barkley.

I blame it more on the team being bad than Claussen's talent

 
could someone in their right mind tell me how Gabbert who was a borderline 2nd rounder 10 games in this year is suddenly in the conversation for the #1 pick over guys like Peterson or Fairley? Seems illogical. Granted I probably saw one game of his but does that dude have the "it" factor because his stats are horrible. How is he better than Newton?

 
could someone in their right mind tell me how Gabbert who was a borderline 2nd rounder 10 games in this year is suddenly in the conversation for the #1 pick over guys like Peterson or Fairley? Seems illogical. Granted I probably saw one game of his but does that dude have the "it" factor because his stats are horrible. How is he better than Newton?
Supply/Demand.The "need" for QBs in the NFL.Show some value and your stock will often skyrocket.
 
The panthers simpley need to take a quarterback with the first pick. Maybe Newton would be the better pick, but Gabbert is less risky. While Marcell Dareus, Patrick Peterson, and DaQuan Bowers may be very good players you can't pass on a potential franschise quarterback. If they take Gabbert then start Clausen at first they could get a Kevin Kolb situation and maybe get a 1st or 2nd round pick for him in a year or too. Say Dareus becomes what we expect and is a top 5 defensive tackle will he really singlehandedly win you more than one or two games a year. With an elite defensive tackle or quarterback your downside with a bad team around him could still be a bottom feeder in the league. With a franchise quarterback the worst case scenario is the chargers last year. Jake Long has been maybe the best offensive tackle in league over the last few years (which is a more highly regarded position then DT) and over preformed expectations when he was picked #1. Still without long I still think the dolphins would only be a game or two worse. If the fins had taken Matt Ryan they would easily be a playoff team. While Gabbert is not Matt Ryan you still have to take him at one because he has a 50 to 75% chance of being a top 10 quarterback in this league. The difference between Marcell Dareus and say Muhammed Wilkerson will not win you more than 2 games over the year. And taking a quarterback with their second rounder is a waste of a pick because Locker and Mallett are not any better prospects than Clausesn. Oh wait they already wasted the pick on Armanti Edwards.
Desparate drafting is essentially bad drafting. I mean if I were the panthers, instead of taking a QB in the first round not matter what, I would draft the best player on the board in the first round and if I thought I absolutely needed a QB take the best of the 2nd tier guys @ the top of the 2nd round...Oh wait, we had to have Amanti Edwards.
 
That's an interesting perspective. I just disagree with a few things:

The panthers simpley need to take a quarterback with the first pick. ,,,a potential franschise quarterback. ...If the fins had taken Matt Ryan they would easily be a playoff team. ...he has a 50 to 75% chance of being a top 10 quarterback in this league.
I agree that if Gabbert were a franchise QB, the Panthers would probably contend, so good job there.
 
The Panthers need to take the BPA in my opinion. I am still not buying the Gabbert hype. I think he could be a solid pro, but a solid player isn't worth the #1 overall pick. I won't fault them for taking Gabbert if he grades out as the best player, but I am desperately hoping for a trade down as a Panthers fan.

 
I like that the OP was saying the Panthers need to take someone other than the guy everyone claims they need to(Cam).

I think in today's NFL you have to acknowledge that Luck is there next year.

IMO The Panthers should trade the first pick for more picks in some fashion any fashion. Leaving it vague because I don't think it really matters exactly what spots they get in return as long as it's reasonable. Next is that since they seem to be done with DeAngelo, then trade him for whatever linemen or picks you can get.

With all these picks, their goal has to be to get linemen on the offensive side. It's never wise to scoff at adding quality to the D-line so there too if opportunity presents itself. If a pick can be traded (CBA) for a veteran lineman, then fine.

So suppose the Panthers have a good line in 2011 that can be very good in time.

They've got to know about the three QBs they drafted. They have to. I don't figure Claussen has much trade value anymore. Enough people did say he'd be a good pro. I love Armanti's excitement for gimmick plays and that moutaineer offense was used like six times. Their other developmental QB they drafted in 2010 really graded out well as a project before last year's draft. Not a play now guy, but a project. Nice size, strong arm, decent head, decent decision maker. Cincy was fairly good in college football and while I wouldn't give Pike all the credit, I think he deserves some that they were getting noticed and all.

This way they get to see what they have.

The line would be in place if they need to draft Luck and are the worst again.

There are a whole lot of QBs throughout NFL history that look far better playing behind a good OL than playing behind a poor one. Maybe Claussen and Pike just needed a an extra second. Maybe Armanti is useless as a WR and a QB. Maybe he's got some Doug Flutie in him and can play QB in the NFL despite his lack of height.

Rookie QBs don't usually win. We can't say that about the choices for this year and simultaneously hold that against Claussen and Pike. Eli was one of the worst rookies I've ever seen. Don't forget there was a joke how Peyton threw more TDs in a single game than Eli threw up until a certain point that season. Anyway you can't forgive rookie mistakes for potential draftees in 2011 and not the guys in 2010. It's just not sound logic at all. IIRC both Claussen and Pike were top 5 or top 10 QBs in last year's draft.

Back to rookie's don't usually win- is Luck going to be a veteran the day he's drafted or a rookie? Some people have Luck winning right away, some even compare him to Bradford as if Sam won 12 games his rookie year. Remember that although Bradford was impressive, his team wasn't even .500.

To sum this up-

Some of these patterns some want the Panthers to do is always be starting a rookie QB each year for 2-3 years (counting 2010) and then somehow they'll win. That's not progress at all and isn't a good theory at all. It sounds it near April, but every rook looks good in April.

Adding a line does give them something to build on. They still have a good RB in Stewart. A good line and a good RB is a good start to building an offense.

Further-if they draft a QB to be their franchise leader each of the next two years, I wouldn't be surprised if the NASCAR and basketball fans run them out of town. The support for the Panthers has been dwindling and Carolina has always been one of the unique places where football isn't king. Those fans seemed all fired up many years ago when Kerry and Greene were there. That was a long time ago. They've gotta throw them a bone here and give them something worth rooting for.

 
The Panthers need to take the BPA in my opinion. I am still not buying the Gabbert hype. I think he could be a solid pro, but a solid player isn't worth the #1 overall pick. I won't fault them for taking Gabbert if he grades out as the best player, but I am desperately hoping for a trade down as a Panthers fan.
Would you be willing to trade down to #9? Cowboys would really appreciate Patrick Peterson here. What will it take to make it worth your while?
 
The Panthers need to take the BPA in my opinion. I am still not buying the Gabbert hype. I think he could be a solid pro, but a solid player isn't worth the #1 overall pick. I won't fault them for taking Gabbert if he grades out as the best player, but I am desperately hoping for a trade down as a Panthers fan.
Would you be willing to trade down to #9? Cowboys would really appreciate Patrick Peterson here. What will it take to make it worth your while?
Tony Romo?
 
Gabbert is totally overhyped! Guy put up mediocre numbers at best in a SPREAD offense against weak defenses. Look what Colt Brennan and Chase Daniel and Alex Smith and the like put up in spread offenses. Now look what they've done in the NFL. Exactly!

I'd happily take Newton over Gabbert any day.

 
'bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
If Im carolina I take peterson and see ifyou can get Luck next year.This crop of QB is terrible Alex Smith part 2
This is my thinking. You get a lockdown CB who can take away half the field. Makes your defense better and probably gives your dline more time to get at the QB. Oh, he can return kicks and punts as well. That was not a great problem last year with Goodson, but he might be the backup RB with Stewart if Williams isn't re-signed. Go with a FA QB this year or Clausen/Moore again and take a QB next year. Now, I think we can drop down to around pick 5 to still be able to do this, so we should at least get a 2nd out of the deal and maybe further considerations. With the 2nd, you could look at someone else at QB as well.
 
could someone in their right mind tell me how Gabbert who was a borderline 2nd rounder 10 games in this year is suddenly in the conversation for the #1 pick over guys like Peterson or Fairley? Seems illogical. Granted I probably saw one game of his but does that dude have the "it" factor because his stats are horrible. How is he better than Newton?
Supply/Demand.The "need" for QBs in the NFL.Show some value and your stock will often skyrocket.
That, and the idea that Gabbert was a borderline second rounder in the eyes of NFL teams is pure assumption.
 
'Warpig said:
Gabbert is totally overhyped! Guy put up mediocre numbers at best in a SPREAD offense against weak defenses. Look what Colt Brennan and Chase Daniel and Alex Smith and the like put up in spread offenses. Now look what they've done in the NFL. Exactly!I'd happily take Newton over Gabbert any day.
16 passing TD's does seem kind of low for a spread offenseCan any Mizzu fans tell us what's up with that? Do they have a RB that scored a lot TD's on the ground?
 
You guys are off your rockers if you think an NFL team is going to draft this year according to a plan of playing so poorly that they'll end up with the #1 again next year. :loco:

 
'Warpig said:
Gabbert is totally overhyped! Guy put up mediocre numbers at best in a SPREAD offense against weak defenses. Look what Colt Brennan and Chase Daniel and Alex Smith and the like put up in spread offenses. Now look what they've done in the NFL. Exactly!I'd happily take Newton over Gabbert any day.
16 passing TD's does seem kind of low for a spread offenseCan any Mizzu fans tell us what's up with that? Do they have a RB that scored a lot TD's on the ground?
It's Mizzou, thank you.And no. Chase Daniel was a much better college QB in the same system. (granted, he had both Alexander and Maclin to throw to)I'm not terribly high on Gabbert as a pro, but I'm biased because he wasn't a superstar in college. That doesn't translate to the NFL (either way) usually, so I'll reserve judgment.
 
You guys are off your rockers if you think an NFL team is going to draft this year according to a plan of playing so poorly that they'll end up with the #1 again next year. :loco:
Could not agree more...these guys don't have the job security to have a year we're they're the worst team in the NFL and than have a year where they're rolling the dice on a rookie QB...unless you're a Belichick or a Cowher you're not going to get a four year grace period...for the most part it's a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately league and extended losing periods are not usually part of a franchise's plan...Also, if Clausen can fetch you a #1 than why do you need to draft another QB...I don't like Clausen and fully understand why Carolina is looking at QB at #1...now whether Gabbert or Newton is the answer is very open for debate...unfortunately for Carolina while there are other real good players available there's nothing that jumps out at you as a #1 pick/franchise type of player...some years you hit the jackpot with this pick and other years it's not so clear.
 
'Warpig said:
Gabbert is totally overhyped! Guy put up mediocre numbers at best in a SPREAD offense against weak defenses. Look what Colt Brennan and Chase Daniel and Alex Smith and the like put up in spread offenses. Now look what they've done in the NFL. Exactly!

I'd happily take Newton over Gabbert any day.
16 passing TD's does seem kind of low for a spread offenseCan any Mizzu fans tell us what's up with that? Do they have a RB that scored a lot TD's on the ground?
It's not about what a prospect did in college - it's how he'll translate to the NFL. Gabbert was not a "2nd round pick" by scouts, I just think most of the NFL fan community never heard him as a serious top prospect because most thought/assumed he would go back for another year.I think the Panthers should take him if they think he's even close to a franchise quarterback. They're not like most teams drafting at #1 most years - they're not completely terrible. They're defense isn't too shabby, they have to re-sign Charles Johnson, but it's not terrible. They have a good offensive line and excellent RB's and some young WR's behind Smith with some upside. The fact that they have nothing at the quarterback position absolutely kills them. Yes, they're probably still a year or so away, but this team is not moving forward without a quarterback, and they're too good to count on being in the top 5 next year (not that any GM/player would think like that anyways).

 
Am I the only person here that thinks Jimmy Claussen is a better talent than both qb's (Gabbert and Newton).
Yup.

:tumbleweed: <-------Blackjacks
Coming out of college last year Claussen put up much better numbers than both QBs this year, he played in a pro style offense, made much better reads and he was a better prospect overall.The team around him in Carolina was awful. Payton Manning would have looked bad on that team. Claussen deserves a shot. A whole offseason as the guy, with a new coach, to see what he has.

If Claussen would have came back for his senoir year at ND he would have had better grades than both these guys......you already have him Carolina. Draft one of your other HUGE needs

 
What happens if training camp time is cut by half or more? Can you expect these spread QBs to pick up the offense in such a short time? What if they miss more time negotiating or resisting a new contract under the new rookie salary cap? Who was the last QB that missed a significant time is in his rookie season? Oh I remeber it was Jamarcus Russell. That missing time didn't really help his career did it.

Even if these guys have a good work ethic and don't show up to camp out of shape, as a GM I would wondering if I should take a player that won't help at all in year one. Maybe I am a pessimist but If I was the Panthers GM and I figured that my #1 pick does not help me significantly (in year one) and I don't have a second round pick, the chances to improve significantly in the wins department is slight. It would puts me in good positon to have a high pick in 2012.

However, the Panthers GM is Marty Hurney. A GM that has a track record of mortgaging future picks to win now. A big reason they are in the mess they are now in. Is it any wonder that he is now singing the praises of Jimmy Clausen.

Ideally, the Panthers need to trade down and accumulate as many future picks as possible but it depends on the unlikely chanced a team is willing to trade up. Barring that, take the BPA and let the chips fall where they may.

 
'Warpig said:
Gabbert is totally overhyped! Guy put up mediocre numbers at best in a SPREAD offense against weak defenses. Look what Colt Brennan and Chase Daniel and Alex Smith and the like put up in spread offenses. Now look what they've done in the NFL. Exactly!

I'd happily take Newton over Gabbert any day.
16 passing TD's does seem kind of low for a spread offenseCan any Mizzu fans tell us what's up with that? Do they have a RB that scored a lot TD's on the ground?
No, Gabbert just isn't that good. His footwork, decision making, and play making ability when the 1st read isn't there/play breaks down is terrible. Whoever takes him in round 1 sets their team back 3 years, minimum.If your team is in need of a QB, just hope you can find one via free agency/post draft trade, these guys aren't going to cut it. Short sighted decision making isn't the right way to win, continue to build the pieces around the QB and when an opportunity at a good QB becomes available, jump.

 
Who was the last QB that missed a significant time is in his rookie season? Oh I remeber it was Jamarcus Russell. That missing time didn't really help his career did it.
Link.
I can't prove anything yet but there seems to be a correlation between being able to practice and learn the playbook and QB success. It controversail, ground breaking stuff I know.
Are you trying to say that taking off running if your primary reciever is covered is not going to win a super bowl?
 
Who was the last QB that missed a significant time is in his rookie season? Oh I remeber it was Jamarcus Russell. That missing time didn't really help his career did it.
Link.
I can't prove anything yet but there seems to be a correlation between being able to practice and learn the playbook and QB success. It controversail, ground breaking stuff I know.
Are you trying to say that taking off running if your primary reciever is covered is not going to win a super bowl?
You can't say that around here. You can't be implying causation. Taking off running if your primary receiver is covered only correlates with losing the super bowl.
 
Who was the last QB that missed a significant time is in his rookie season? Oh I remeber it was Jamarcus Russell. That missing time didn't really help his career did it.
Link.
I can't prove anything yet but there seems to be a correlation between being able to practice and learn the playbook and QB success. It controversail, ground breaking stuff I know.
Are you trying to say that taking off running if your primary reciever is covered is not going to win a super bowl?
You can't say that around here. You can't be implying causation. Taking off running if your primary receiver is covered only correlates with losing the super bowl.
It's pretty telling that you'd rather set up a weak straw man rather than argue the actual point.
 
Who was the last QB that missed a significant time is in his rookie season? Oh I remeber it was Jamarcus Russell. That missing time didn't really help his career did it.
Link.
I can't prove anything yet but there seems to be a correlation between being able to practice and learn the playbook and QB success. It controversail, ground breaking stuff I know.
There was a long list of reasons Russell didn't work out, and missing his first training camp is waaaaay down the list. That's all Keys is saying.
 
Who was the last QB that missed a significant time is in his rookie season? Oh I remeber it was Jamarcus Russell. That missing time didn't really help his career did it.
Link.
I can't prove anything yet but there seems to be a correlation between being able to practice and learn the playbook and QB success. It controversail, ground breaking stuff I know.
There was a long list of reasons Russell didn't work out, and missing his first training camp is waaaaay down the list. That's all Keys is saying.
This guy gets it.
 
Who was the last QB that missed a significant time is in his rookie season? Oh I remeber it was Jamarcus Russell. That missing time didn't really help his career did it.
Link.
I can't prove anything yet but there seems to be a correlation between being able to practice and learn the playbook and QB success. It controversail, ground breaking stuff I know.
There was a long list of reasons Russell didn't work out, and missing his first training camp is waaaaay down the list. That's all Keys is saying.
It not like I didn't mention Russel's lack of work ethic in the next sentence but whatever. I will leave at that and refrain from posting here.
 

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