The Pittsburgh Steelers believe Brian Flores, why don't you? (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

Steelers bolster staff

Pittsburgh isn't on board with He Said He Said so why do some of you cling to it?

 

[bostonfred]

I have very few good things to say about the steelers or Tomlin but good for them

 

[Ministry of Pain]

• Former Miami Dolphins head coach Brian Flores has been named senior defensive assistant/linebackers coach of the Pittsburgh Steelers
  
• Flores sued the NFL and three teams in early February over alleged race bias,, 
  
• Flores was fired by Dolphins in January and filed a lawsuit alleging discrimination against black candidates for top level coaching and management jobs
  
• Flores accused Dolphins owner Stephen Ross of offering him $100,000 for each loss in 2019 as incentive to help the team land a higher draft pick 
  
• He claimed his and said his refusal to throw games ultimately cost him his job
  
• Miami's firing of Flores was one of the more surprising head coach decisions following the 2021 National Football League season
  
• The Dolphins won eight of their final nine games after a 1-7 start
  
• As well as NFL, Dolphins, Denver Broncos and New York Giants named in Flores' lawsuit, saying interviews for their vacant head coach positions were a sham
  
• Flores accuses them of simply allowing him to interview to comply with a league rule that minority candidates must be considered for top coaching and staff jobs
  
• The NFL, Dolphins, Broncos and Giants have all denied Flores' accusations
  

Did MoP miss anything?

 

[travdogg]

•  
  
• Miami's firing of Flores was one of the more surprising head coach decisions following the 2021 National Football League season
  

I'm actually on the other side of this one. Its incredibly rare for a HC to retain his job after a 3 year stretch of not making the playoffs. Since 2000 only:

Ravens-John Harbaugh(who had already won a Super Bowl for his team)

Bears-Lovie Smith(who had gotten to the Super Bowl with his team)

Bengals-Marvin Lewis(Bengals had an exceptionally patient/lazy front office)

Browns-Romeo Crennel(I don't know. Maybe they thought that random Derek Anderson blowup year was for real? Even then, he only lasted 1 more season)

Cowboys-Jason Garrett(inexplicably loved by owner)

Texans-Dom Capers(expansion team, and only lasted a 4th season) Gary Kubiak(team was extra patient after Capers made little progress in his 4 years, exception that proves the rule perhaps?)

Rams-Jeff Fisher(lasted only 1 more year, and was universally panned for keeping him that long)

Saints-Jim Haslett(took team from 3-13 to playoffs in year 1, that likely bought him extra time) Sean Payton(won a ring before, and had a top-2 offense throughout)

Giants-Tom Coughlin(had won 2 rings, and that still only bought him a 4th year)

Jets-Rex Ryan(had back to back AFC championship game appearances, only lasted 1 extra year) Todd Bowles(got a 4th year, that nobody wanted)

Seahawks-Mike Holmgren(was a Super Bowl winning HC, and was also the GM)

Titans-Jeff Fisher(had gotten them to a Super Bowl previously)

So, 15 examples in 22 years. All but maybe 1-2 had better resumes than Flores. I won't speak to all the other things Flores alleges, but I don't think his firing was without just cause for on field performance. As long as he's not a distraction, its probably a good hire for the Steelers. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I'm actually on the other side of this one. Its incredibly rare for a HC to retain his job after a 3 year stretch of not making the playoffs. Since 2000 only:

So, 15 examples in 22 years. All but maybe 1-2 had better resumes than Flores. I won't speak to all the other things Flores alleges, but I don't think his firing was without just cause for on field performance. As long as he's not a distraction, its probably a good hire for the Steelers. 

Great post, wanted to focus on you saying his firing was/wasn't without just cause, Ross already said he was not fired for his coaching results or "merits" meaning he went 19-14 in '20-'21 and 8-1 down the stretch, it was a straight personality dispute and Flores not carrying out his marching orders to Ross liking. 

But i appreciate all the examples you gave, many don't try and support their arguments or POV, I just am basing my opinion on what the owner said at the press conference.

-Flores contract for 4 or 5 years when he signed fully guaranteed, there was no financial gain for Ross to release or fire him. 

 

[Hot Sauce Guy]

Shocked he got a joB in the NFL again. Shocked. 

I’ll leave the rest of the discussion to all y’all. 

 

[Birdie048]

I think it is a good sign for Flores to get hired & remain in the NFL. He had college options available but wanted to remain in the peak environment.   I believe Pitt being the destination was not without merit.  With the “pay to tank” issue coming to light, any evidence uncovered will not see the light of day to us. It will be “redacted for any publication” for legal reasons.  
As for his claims, I believe most of it as the “Billionaire Club” NFL Owners hide the truth and circle the wagons. IMO, Ross will be given time to step away but ultimately he will sell as a result of this evidence even if only seen internally in NFL upper echelon. 
Maybe in 5 years it will be leaked like the Gruden emails from years ago. 

 

[jm192]

The Steelers hiring him doesn't change anything IMO.

Flores gets fired.  Doesn't get two jobs, sues over racism.  Says he can't get a job in the NFL because of racism

Then Lovie Smith gets the Texans job.  His team releases a statement saying he would have gotten that job if not for the law suit and this is the NFL punishing him.  So you can't get a job due to race.  But you were going to get this one.  Doesn't add up.  

Moreover, supposedly he's doing this to help all black head coaches.  But it sure felt like they were kicking dirt on the Lovie Smith hire.  

I don't see these kinds of statements and actions and think "Man, I'd love to work with that guy."  Maybe he's fine.  But the Steelers hiring him doesn't override anything he's done/said.  

 

[Ministry of Pain]

The Steelers hiring him doesn't change anything IMO.

Flores gets fired.  Doesn't get two jobs, sues over racism.  Says he can't get a job in the NFL because of racism

Then Lovie Smith gets the Texans job.  His team releases a statement saying he would have gotten that job if not for the law suit and this is the NFL punishing him.  So you can't get a job due to race.  But you were going to get this one.  Doesn't add up.  

Moreover, supposedly he's doing this to help all black head coaches.  But it sure felt like they were kicking dirt on the Lovie Smith hire.  

I don't see these kinds of statements and actions and think "Man, I'd love to work with that guy."  Maybe he's fine.  But the Steelers hiring him doesn't override anything he's done/said.  

He Said He Said, $100k bounty, tell us how you feel about that part of the lawsuit?

-Also MoP gentle reminder that the "Rooney Rule" and the Pittsburgh Steelers are pretty much hand in hand. The rule was invented by the Rooneys or named after them and they have the longest tenured African American head coach in the NFL. If anything, the fact the Steelers hired him makes it even more believable about the racism int he lawsuit, they certainly stand with him and btw invented the Rule that proceeds all this to begin with. 

-Also, I understand you yourself wouldn't work with Flores but obviously someone who has 2 trips to the Super Bowl and a Lombardi Trophy feels like this coach is one of the best for his staff next season and seized the opportunity to hire him. 

I like your posts 192, no disrespect meant. 

 

[jm192]

He Said He Said, $100k bounty, tell us how you feel about that part of the lawsuit?

-Also MoP gentle reminder that the "Rooney Rule" and the Pittsburgh Steelers are pretty much hand in hand. The rule was invented by the Rooneys or named after them and they have the longest tenured African American head coach in the NFL. If anything, the fact the Steelers hired him makes it even more believable about the racism int he lawsuit, they certainly stand with him and btw invented the Rule that proceeds all this to begin with. 

-Also, I understand you yourself wouldn't work with Flores but obviously someone who has 2 trips to the Super Bowl and a Lombardi Trophy feels like this coach is one of the best for his staff next season and seized the opportunity to hire him. 

I like your posts 192, no disrespect meant. 

1.  On the 100K Bounty--is there's merit there, Ross should be out of the league.  I would assume there's a huge FBI investigation to follow.  It's horrible stuff.  Not here to try to defend it.  But I also don't follow it's place in the lawsuit.  When much of the talk is about racism, is it believed that Flores wouldn't be asked or incentivized to throw games if he was white?  Or is he just saying he was fired for not tanking?  There's definitely something there if that's the case.  But why attach it to a lawsuit about racist hiring practices?  

2.  I don't see the Steelers hiring him as a validation of his claims.  You're right about the Steelers, the Rooneys and their action towards more equitable hiring practices. When I read they had hired him, I thought it's a very Steelers move.  If you told me one organization was going to hire Flores during all of this, I would have guessed Steelers.  I don't think this is an expression the Steelers or anyone involved thinks the Giants, Broncos or NFL were racist in the process involving Flores.  I do think the Steelers, Rooneys, and everyone involved understands the work that needs to be done to make things more equitable.  

3.  I think Flores is a good coach.  I was surprised the Dolphins fired him.  And you're absolutely right, the Steelers recognize he is a good coach and feel he can help them.  But I also think it's possible other people who have interacted with Flores didn't get along with him or didn't want to work with him.  And I don't think the Steelers hiring him disproves that. 

 

[massraider]

This thread title is best read in the voice of Sally Struthers, when she did those starving kid commercials back in the day.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

This thread title is best read in the voice of Sally Struthers, when she did those starving kid commercials back in the day.

-For just 65 cents a day you can help sponsor an Assistant Coach. That's enough for a hot meal, medical care or whatever an assistant needs most. 

 

[jm192]

-For just 65 cents a day you can help sponsor an Assistant Coach. That's enough for a hot meal, medical care or whatever an assistant needs most. 

Times like these we need the laughing reaction.

 

[menobrown]

2.  I don't see the Steelers hiring him as a validation of his claims.  You're right about the Steelers, the Rooneys and their action towards more equitable hiring practices. When I read they had hired him, I thought it's a very Steelers move.  If you told me one organization was going to hire Flores during all of this, I would have guessed Steelers.  I don't think this is an expression the Steelers or anyone involved thinks the Giants, Broncos or NFL were racist in the process involving Flores.  I do think the Steelers, Rooneys, and everyone involved understands the work that needs to be done to make things more equitable.  

. 

Maybe this sheds more light on why it was my Steeler's making the hire.

@clarencehilljr

Credit Mike Tomlin for throwing a life raft to Brian Flores.

@JosinaAnderson

It's what was expected. It's what many coaches behind the scenes were privately calling for...Tomlin using his power and security to help, as only 1 of 2 African-American head coaches now in the NFL. The focus still remains on the concerns raised in the class-action lawsuit.

 

[SoBeDad]

If he gets a head coaching job next year or the following,  unlikely but possible, the Steelers get 3rd round comp picks in the following 2 drafts. I think it's a win for the Steelers. Plus, they play Tua in 2022.

 

[wgoldsph]

Maybe this sheds more light on why it was my Steeler's making the hire.

@clarencehilljr

Credit Mike Tomlin for throwing a life raft to Brian Flores.

@JosinaAnderson

It's what was expected. It's what many coaches behind the scenes were privately calling for...Tomlin using his power and security to help, as only 1 of 2 African-American head coaches now in the NFL. The focus still remains on the concerns raised in the class-action lawsuit.

None of this, nor anything else imo, shows anyone believing in anything Flores said.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

If he gets a head coaching job next year or the following,  unlikely but possible, the Steelers get 3rd round comp picks in the following 2 drafts. I think it's a win for the Steelers. Plus, they play Tua in 2022.

This is a very interesting angle.  One could argue that Tua has the current skillset of an early career Big Ben.  Might be a good match.

Can't discern from the media coverage whether Flores was pro or anti Watson trade...there's some he said he said on that sub-topic as well.

 

[Ilov80s]

None of this, nor anything else imo, shows anyone believing in anything Flores said.

The hiring sure seems like a sign of support from the Steelers owners, management and coaches that they support Flores. 

 

[jm192]

The hiring sure seems like a sign of support from the Steelers owners, management and coaches that they support Flores. 

I don't feel your statement contradicts the statement you quoted.

I think the Steelers support the man.  I don't think this says anything about whether or not they support his claims.  

 

[Steve Tasker]

I'm actually on the other side of this one. Its incredibly rare for a HC to retain his job after a 3 year stretch of not making the playoffs. Since 2000 only:

Interesting stat here, but if I am reading it right you're missing the Bills and **** Jauron.  He coached the Bills to 3 straight playoff-less 7-9 seasons in 2006, 2007, and 2008.  Bills brought him back for 2009 but he was fired midseason after starting 3-6.

 

[steelcityman]

Did you all watch any Steelers defense last year?   If Watt or Heyward didnt make the play, it was Minkah 15+ yards down field.   They need all the help they can get on defense, players and coaches.   Steelers dont care about the lawsuit, skin color, public perception.   

 

[Ilov80s]

I don't feel your statement contradicts the statement you quoted.

I think the Steelers support the man.  I don't think this says anything about whether or not they support his claims.  

Perhaps but it seems kind of like fantasy land to say the Steelers hired him and the lawsuit wasn’t part of their decision process. It seems clear to me the Steelers are taking a side given  they hired a guy who is suing the trade organization the Steelers belong to. 

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Flores willing to provide evidence. 

In an interview slated to air on Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel, Flores’ attorney, Doug Wigdor, said Flores and his legal team “definitely have corroborating evidence” to prove Flores’ claims about Ross. And Wigdor said that evidence will be shared with the NFL, separate and apart from Flores’ lawsuit.

 

[SwampDawg]

My take:

1. Flores was fired for not doing what Ross wanted not because of race. To me they should be two separate law suits, but I'm guessing they knew the race part of the suit would get the eyeballs and they wanted to burn Ross/Miami.
   
2. His claim he is doing this to help other black coaches when he had one of the staffs with the least minorities on it and seemed to hand pick his DC (who is white) and brought along with him from NE seems to say otherwise. If I was the opposing attorney I would be digging into who else he interviewed for the DC job and were they given a fair shot or just used to cover the Rooney rule (I know it applies to coordinators now, not sure in 2019). It seems like a classic case of "do as I say not as I do".
   
3. I'd love to question him under oath what happened the first 7 weeks of 2019. Was he just a horrible coach for 7 weeks and didn't know what he was doing or was he taking Ross's advice to tank up and then got tired of it later and changed his mind?  If it is the first he likely should have been fired after the season given how ill prepared and bad Miami looked in those games. If it is the latter then he threw games as well, great that he regretted it later but he still did it again making him seem like a hypocrite combined with his lack of minority hiring. 
   
4. I'm not shocked at all the Steelers hired him. He has shown to be a very good defensive coach who doesn't seem to be able to build the offensive side at all. The Steelers are one of the teams with a strong head coach that can prevent Flores from becoming the story and a distraction as the lawsuit drags on. I would not have shocked to see him back in New England either, he wasn't going to get an assistant coach somewhere with a young coach.
   

 

[menobrown]

Flores willing to provide evidence. 

In an interview slated to air on Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel, Flores’ attorney, Doug Wigdor, said Flores and his legal team “definitely have corroborating evidence” to prove Flores’ claims about Ross. And Wigdor said that evidence will be shared with the NFL, separate and apart from Flores’ lawsuit.

His evidence, and I hesitate to call it that, has always been the word of his assistant who also got fired. That's all he's got and that ain't much.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

for me...I think most of us agree the 100 grand to lose thing feels separate from racial discrimination...and it feels like you would have to stretch it pretty hard to bring those together, but I can see how there might be a tiny angle where you could do so.....but feels like a big reach....and added just to "get more clicks" so to speak...

with that said, (race aside)....if he has the ammo ....to me it is actually the bigger issue than the racial discrimination stuff...

racial discrimination stuff: applaud him for trying to fight the fight....but without some sort of racist smoking gun (email, recording, video, witnesses)....don't feel like there is a ton to see here more than there has been previously with the issue....and then it feels like yeah he may be an upstanding guy.....principle based....willing to die on the sword for what he believes, etc....but those kind of people make employers nervous....I have seen people eventually lose jobs for rocking the corporate boat or being the one to ask tough questions or to question policies and practices....you never know when they will get the next burr in their saddle....you have to be really good at your job, like really good....not just good or average for an employer to roll the dice on you if thats how you roll....

 

[Ministry of Pain]

for me...I think most of us agree the 100 grand to lose thing feels separate from racial discrimination...and it feels like you would have to stretch it pretty hard to bring those together, but I can see how there might be a tiny angle where you could do so.....but feels like a big reach....and added just to "get more clicks" so to speak...

with that said, (race aside)....if he has the ammo ....to me it is actually the bigger issue than the racial discrimination stuff...

racial discrimination stuff: applaud him for trying to fight the fight....but without some sort of racist smoking gun (email, recording, video, witnesses)....don't feel like there is a ton to see here more than there has been previously with the issue....and then it feels like yeah he may be an upstanding guy.....principle based....willing to die on the sword for what he believes, etc....but those kind of people make employers nervous....I have seen people eventually lose jobs for rocking the corporate boat or being the one to ask tough questions or to question policies and practices....you never know when they will get the next burr in their saddle....you have to be really good at your job, like really good....not just good or average for an employer to roll the dice on you if thats how you roll....

I agree with many of you that are separating the two issues. Ross employs many minorities in prominent roles with the Miami Dolphins, it's kinda hard to paint him as a blatant racist. There are minority owners in the minority ownership positions such as the Williams Sisters and I believe Gloria Estefan and there's others but that was off the top of my head. 

-But I firmly believe Flores and that doesn't mean I don't think Ross wasn't trying in certain ways to tank but you just order the offense to run it up the gut 1st and 2nd and then drop back your QB on 3rd and long and roll the dice behind a shaky at best OL. He misread Flores as man he could control. I'm sure he said it to Flores and I'm sure he wasn't joking since that has already surfaced as part of his alibi. 

Racism? Not when it comes to the Miami Dolphins but I am open to his information on the other teams and his journey interviewing around the league. 

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Flores willing to provide evidence. 

In an interview slated to air on Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel, Flores’ attorney, Doug Wigdor, said Flores and his legal team “definitely have corroborating evidence” to prove Flores’ claims about Ross. And Wigdor said that evidence will be shared with the NFL, separate and apart from Flores’ lawsuit.

Okay, I have reluctantly come around to the view that Flores is absolutely FOS on this particular point.  If he had any actual evidence of this, he would put it out there. 

I wanted this to be true so badly, because it would allow me to mock the Miami Dolphins franchise from now until the day I die.  Instead I'll just have to live with Josh Allen making you guys look as if you were tanking twice a year.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Dr Evil Voice:  Politics forum, really?

 

[-fish-]

Good thread, MoP.  I agree that the Steelers hiring Flores is a sign that they support him, in addition to the fact that they need to shore up their defensive scheme.   You can't just live on the hope that Watt will disrupt enough plays to win.   

I think the Lovie Smith hiring was encouraged, if not orchestrated, by the owners.   After the lawsuit was filed, the NFL needed a team to hire a black head coach.      Houston is going to have a fire sale and may lose Watson, Reid, Cooks and Tunsil and rebuild for at least a couple years.   Does a 63-year old career .500 defensive specialist make any sense for a team that's going to be rebuilding its offense?    Not much the Texans do makes sense, so maybe they would have promoted him anyway, but the trend of winning teams in the NFL seems to be toward younger, offensive minded HC's.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

Dr Evil Voice:  Politics forum, really?

where football related topics go to die even if getting tons of action....if it starts sniffing like opinions and not 100% football it gets the boot.....

 

[Ministry of Pain]

where football related topics go to die even if getting tons of action....if it starts sniffing like opinions and not 100% football it gets the boot.....

Thanks Stink, I know I've disappointed you some in recent years with a few of my posts and topics, appreciate you posting up in this one. 

Anyone that can run with it form here, be my guest, not much use for NFL threads that end up in the political forum, can't really understand why it landed here but I don't insult the owners and management, I just keep moving on to the next subject...or I'll re-word and re-package this topic in another way. In all fairness, ido have a $100k Ross specific topic that is still floating towards the front 1-2 pages, that's fine until we have more details. 

I've been very passionate in my accepting of Flores' comments and claims until Ross can prove otherwise. I base it on 15 years now of pathetic ownership and previous fires the NFL has had to extinguish for him starting with Bullygate, a proposed citizen tax to improve Hard Rock-it failed so he went into his own pocket, imagine that. Poor contracts, draft picks, mounting losses, a night club in the Stadium End Zone(MoP actually likes that) 1.05-Tua, 1.06-Herbert and I can keep going but the fans deserve better than this buffoon. He even complicates coaching hirings by being meddlesome. He hired Adam Gase, not Mike Tannenbaum and Chris Grier, he is such a bad owner he had to pay a 5 year fully guaranteed deal to Brian Flores in order to get him to accept the Phins offer and then he opted not to take the last 1-2 years of money left on the contract so he could be one with his eternal soul and go on Gayle King's show.

-The man was humiliated, his words not mine. 

Cheers Stink!