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The Question No One is Asking (1 Viewer)

I think this issue will be the most difficult one BB and the organization has faced...it's very obvious that Hernandez is a bad guy and has been one for awhile...drafting him is one thing...teams roll the dice on "character issues" all the time...it's just a fact of life in pro sports today...the contract extension is a totally different issue...right now it appears only two things could have occurred...one, the Pats security/intelligence (or whatever you want to call it) totally whiffed on the gravity of Hernandez's thuggishness...for a team that dots every I and crosses every T I find that really hard to believe...so does that mean that the Pats were willing to give out big money to a guy that appears to have gang ties and has a lot of bad stuff going on around him...if he's out in Boston hanging with hoods there is absolutely no way the Pats would not know about this...Boston/Eastern Mass is a very close-knit community and these secrets are not easy to keep...especially on a very high profile player...BB likes to keep the media at bay and that strategy often makes a lot of sense regardless of how frustrating it can be...yet, there is absolutely no way that "no comments" or podium shrugs will suffice here...as a fan I want to know how you can let a good soldier like Welker walk for low money (or bench him for foot jokes) yet can give a big contract to what right now appears to be a murderer who was keeping company with some very, very bad people...sorry but Hernandez just did not turn into a bad guy 10 days ago and the Pats need to answer why they did not have better info or why they ignored the info they had...
Is it possible they didn't know Aaron's wherabout's every second of the day? Yes, it is. Maybe they just treated him like an adult.

They're are hundreds of guys in the NFL with 'character' concerns. Some of them get big contracts. How in the hell were the Patriots supposed to know this paticular knuckle-head would allegedly murder somebody?
Maybe you are not keeping up on the info that is coming out...this is not a good person and hasn't been for awhile...we're not talking about DUI's or strip-club nonsense...we're talking about legit gang-ties...not saying they should know he was going to kill someone...that's being a Monday morning QB...I am saying that this appears to be a guy that you don't give 40 mil to after you have had under your watch for 2+ years...
 
NEs become fat cats. Laziness probably set it and most likely Krafty Bob put too much trust in BB
But RKK has always said drafting decisions are made according to a formula they use... not any one person's decision. And I can guarantee you the most recent mega-contract wasn't BB's sole decision.

 
If you can go out to a club, shoot someone in the face, and then they sue you and the word doesn't come out for months, not on twitter, not in any random news blog, not on espn, then you're doing a pretty good job keeping your bad behavior hidden.

 
I think this issue will be the most difficult one BB and the organization has faced...it's very obvious that Hernandez is a bad guy and has been one for awhile...drafting him is one thing...teams roll the dice on "character issues" all the time...it's just a fact of life in pro sports today...the contract extension is a totally different issue...right now it appears only two things could have occurred...one, the Pats security/intelligence (or whatever you want to call it) totally whiffed on the gravity of Hernandez's thuggishness...for a team that dots every I and crosses every T I find that really hard to believe...so does that mean that the Pats were willing to give out big money to a guy that appears to have gang ties and has a lot of bad stuff going on around him...if he's out in Boston hanging with hoods there is absolutely no way the Pats would not know about this...Boston/Eastern Mass is a very close-knit community and these secrets are not easy to keep...especially on a very high profile player...BB likes to keep the media at bay and that strategy often makes a lot of sense regardless of how frustrating it can be...yet, there is absolutely no way that "no comments" or podium shrugs will suffice here...as a fan I want to know how you can let a good soldier like Welker walk for low money (or bench him for foot jokes) yet can give a big contract to what right now appears to be a murderer who was keeping company with some very, very bad people...sorry but Hernandez just did not turn into a bad guy 10 days ago and the Pats need to answer why they did not have better info or why they ignored the info they had...
This is a really good post.

I am not trying to rip on the Pats here at all.

Here is my subjective take:

BB is probably the best coach in football. In fact, it might not even be close. Even the haters know his ability to game-plan week to week and put his players in positions to win is second to none. It's also clear to me that BB is very good at coaching his coaches to be successful. Many have bombed as they left, but under BB they were all applauded.

We have all worked at places where there was that one guy. Sometimes it can even be you. He does the work of 4-5 people. The whole machine goes because of that guy. Many step up because they see how hard BB works for them to succeed. It becomes a culture of winning and many buy in to make the organization top notch.

In my mind, BB is that guy who does the work of many. He is such a good coach that he plugs tons of holes in what is likely an average (or worse) front office. But because he is doing at least 3-4 roles on this team, the one he clearly has no time for is knowing if his players are thugs, etc. He knows them as football players. He trusts his front office to figure the rest out. I am sure he evaluates guys and has comments on their football skills/worth, but once they are signed he coaches them to be the best they can be.

The front office failed big here. They have also been failing pretty badly in the NFL Draft despite record number of picks each year. In my opinion, they have not earned a pass. For me though, BB gets a pass. He is the coach and already doing the work of many.
I agree with most of your post except for the seperating BB and the FO part and the silly "NE doesn't pay players their worth" BS they don't. If you want to re-word that and say NE doesn't tend to pay their players as much as they want and many leave, I got no beef with that (worth, like beauty is in the eye of the beholder). As for BB & the FO, they are one in the same and there have been documented examples of BB overuling staff and drafting players (busts) despite staff recomendations against it. BB & the FO are one in the same and while overall they have done a pretty damn good job, there is no doubt they have made many big mistakes drafting over the years and those mistakes have hurt them; no question.

They took a chance on the AH and it looked like it paid off. As for all the "how could they not see this bs" I don't buy it. Hind sight is 20/20 and it might be easy to spot a punk who wants to be a "playa", it is quite another to know the depths of a mans soul ahead of time. It takes a special kind of vicious pos to have done what he has allegedly done and those people are not nearly as easy to spot as many seem to want to imply now.

As for the above poster lamenting the fact they let Welker go, he needs to get over it and move on. Patriots fans don't want or need any explanation, those that have been paying attention already know the score. They signed AH to the big contract because of his talent and his age and they thought it made good economic sense (IE whats best for the team). Had they any inkling the guy was capable of doing what he is charged with they wouldn't have signed him, it wouldn't have made sense. They didn't sign Welker because of his age and because they didn't think it made economic sense, nothing more nothing less. He could have ended up staying and had he been able to do it again I bet he would have. However, the demonstrable "fact" of the matter is that he and his agent had an over inflated value of his "worth" and that is the primary reason he isn't here anymore (sucks, but it's the truth). The FO made a mistake extending AH, but BB has nothing to explain to Patriots fans imho. Most of us learned a long time ago that the myth that the team, Brady, BB and the FO was infallible was simply that, a myth; they are all too human, just like everyone else. It is really only the trolls and antogonists who for arguements sake like to pretend otherwise............

 
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The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.

 
The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
yeah, there would've been a guy on here starting a thread about how the pats wouldn't pay him what he's worth

lolz

 
The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
yeah, there would've been a guy on here starting a thread about how the pats wouldn't pay him what he's worth

lolz
I have never seen where the Pats manage their teams because of what the fans might say. Is this something new?

 
The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
yeah, there would've been a guy on here starting a thread about how the pats wouldn't pay him what he's worth

lolz
I have never seen where the Pats manage their teams because of what the fans might say. Is this something new?
I can't comment on the fan backlash angle, but I think the point is it was a smart extension and good deal for both sides at the time.

I guess you feel otherwise, and that the pats have a staff of guys following the players around, tapping their phones, and watching through their windows with binoculars.

what was wimer doing last weekend?

 
The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
You answered your question with a hypothetical. Your hypothetical assumes he doesn't kill someone. I don't get it.

 
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The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
yeah, there would've been a guy on here starting a thread about how the pats wouldn't pay him what he's worth

lolz
I have never seen where the Pats manage their teams because of what the fans might say. Is this something new?
:thanks: :own3d:

 
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The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
You answered your question with a hypothetical. Your hypothetical assumes he doesn't kill someone. If he doesn't kill someone then wasn't the Pats choice a good one? I don't get it.
the pats choice was a good choice at the time, period.

since the deal was signed the situation has changed.

this is simply more of the same nonsense that goes on on this board all the time where people wait for some guy to break his leg then weigh in with all their opinions -- wait 'til the season's over and post your opinions so you know exactly who should've been traded for who during the season, what guys were steals in the draft, and who all the busts are.

can I get a link to everybody's comments on this deal when it was signed?

 
Penny-smart and pound-foolish comes to mind. If I owned an NFL team and drafted somebody that had character concerns coming into the league, I am pretty sure I would do due diligence before offering him $41 Million (with a $16M signing bonus) on an early extension to his rookie contract. A private eye would have cost what $25,000? I guess if the Patriots are right in 99.5% of these situations they should come out ahead doing it their way.

 
The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
You answered your question with a hypothetical. Your hypothetical assumes he doesn't kill someone. I don't get it.
The point being, if they ever did not re-sign him or flat out released him based on suspicion that someday he MIGHT do something really bad or potentially kill someone, they would have been LAMBASTED by the same fans and media that are now saying they were idiots for drafting him, extending him, or otherwise not doing enough investigation on him.

Only after he potentially killed someone were they stupid potentially every step of the way. While I agree they probably should have done more research and/or investigation on AH (or weigh more heavily what they found out about him), expecting someone might actually kill someone seems a bit over the top.

 
Penny-smart and pound-foolish comes to mind. If I owned an NFL team and drafted somebody that had character concerns coming into the league, I am pretty sure I would do due diligence before offering him $41 Million (with a $16M signing bonus) on an early extension to his rookie contract. A private eye would have cost what $25,000? I guess if the Patriots are right in 99.5% of these situations they should come out ahead doing it their way.
From the looks and sounds of it, it sounds like the Pats had at least some intel and knowledge of what AH was up to as far back as high school. I believe they looked into him again before extending him and some security folks pointed out he may not be an angel and the powers that be overruled/ignored them and signed him to a big extension anyway. Bear in mind that is an amalgam of multiple forms of media and articles and piecing things together. I also don't know if that's just people asserting that after the fact when in fact they may not have said very much or spoken out about it much at all. But the sense that I guess is that NE had more knowledge about AH than the rest of us did.

 
Penny-smart and pound-foolish comes to mind. If I owned an NFL team and drafted somebody that had character concerns coming into the league, I am pretty sure I would do due diligence before offering him $41 Million (with a $16M signing bonus) on an early extension to his rookie contract. A private eye would have cost what $25,000? I guess if the Patriots are right in 99.5% of these situations they should come out ahead doing it their way.
From the looks and sounds of it, it sounds like the Pats had at least some intel and knowledge of what AH was up to as far back as high school. I believe they looked into him again before extending him and some security folks pointed out he may not be an angel and the powers that be overruled/ignored them and signed him to a big extension anyway. Bear in mind that is an amalgam of multiple forms of media and articles and piecing things together. I also don't know if that's just people asserting that after the fact when in fact they may not have said very much or spoken out about it much at all. But the sense that I guess is that NE had more knowledge about AH than the rest of us did.
It will be interesting if someone gets fired over this.

 
I was just thinking to myself "We need an 11th Aaron Hernandez thread on the front page"

Thanks!
dude, this is another pats troll thread -- not an ahern thread

ie baseless complaint
How can an organization with supposedly one of the best front offices in the business, sign him to a $41M contract?

I can understand them taking him in the 4th round in the NFL Draft. Most scouts graded him as a 2nd-round talent with off-field concerns.

But this is the Patriots. They never pay people their worth. They usually have 10 back up strategies on speed dial should their veteran not resign for cheap.

How in the world did this organization NOT uncover that Hernandez was still living the life of a criminal?
The "Patriot Way" is dead. There have been signs of this ship sinking for some time now imo. They haven't done well in the draft in recent, their defense has been horrible despite multiple picks being spent on it. Funny thing is EVERY year the "draft experts" have loved every draft and they bomb year after year.
:goodposting: AH is merely the latest example of a failed "Golden Standard".

 
For a team with such terrible drafting and management, they sure have won a lot of football games and are almost always a #1 or #2 seed in the playoffs. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess, but they still have Chandler Jones, Dunt'a Hightower, Nate Solder, Stevan Ridley, Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Sebastian Vollmer, Jerod Mayo, and a few other guys with some utility the last few drafts. Does it really matter who you draft as long as you continue to win?

 
The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
You answered your question with a hypothetical. Your hypothetical assumes he doesn't kill someone. If he doesn't kill someone then wasn't the Pats choice a good one? I don't get it.
the pats choice was a good choice at the time, period.

since the deal was signed the situation has changed.
So the guns, strip clubs, and thug life were nonexistent between the day he got drafted and his extension? Got it thanks

 
For a team with such terrible drafting and management, they sure have won a lot of football games and are almost always a #1 or #2 seed in the playoffs. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess, but they still have Chandler Jones, Dunt'a Hightower, Nate Solder, Stevan Ridley, Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Sebastian Vollmer, Jerod Mayo, and a few other guys with some utility the last few drafts. Does it really matter who you draft as long as you continue to win?
all are terrible, or most likely will murder someone

pats have won more games the last 10 years than any other team in the nfl, and it's all brady, and we all know it.

except for that year it was all cassel

oh, and speaking of cassel -- what a bust, amirite?

 
The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
You answered your question with a hypothetical. Your hypothetical assumes he doesn't kill someone. If he doesn't kill someone then wasn't the Pats choice a good one? I don't get it.
the pats choice was a good choice at the time, period.

since the deal was signed the situation has changed.
So the guns, strip clubs, and thug life were nonexistent between the day he got drafted and his extension? Got it thanks
omg he went to strip clubs?

source?

 
The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
You answered your question with a hypothetical. Your hypothetical assumes he doesn't kill someone. If he doesn't kill someone then wasn't the Pats choice a good one? I don't get it.
the pats choice was a good choice at the time, period.

since the deal was signed the situation has changed.
So the guns, strip clubs, and thug life were nonexistent between the day he got drafted and his extension? Got it thanks
omg he went to strip clubs?

source?
You're coming off like the 2nd biggest Pats homer I've seen on these boards.

 
For a team with such terrible drafting and management, they sure have won a lot of football games and are almost always a #1 or #2 seed in the playoffs. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess, but they still have Chandler Jones, Dunt'a Hightower, Nate Solder, Stevan Ridley, Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Sebastian Vollmer, Jerod Mayo, and a few other guys with some utility the last few drafts. Does it really matter who you draft as long as you continue to win?
Eventually it matters, it catches up with you.

 
For a team with such terrible drafting and management, they sure have won a lot of football games and are almost always a #1 or #2 seed in the playoffs. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess, but they still have Chandler Jones, Dunt'a Hightower, Nate Solder, Stevan Ridley, Devin McCourty, Rob Gronkowski, Sebastian Vollmer, Jerod Mayo, and a few other guys with some utility the last few drafts. Does it really matter who you draft as long as you continue to win?
Eventually it matters, it catches up with you.so much
I have friends that hate the Pats that have been telling me that since 2003. What is the statute of limitations on eventually? 5 years? 10 years? Sure, at some point the entire roster will have turned over three times, Brady will retire, and BB might not coach. So technically you are right, at some point they will stop the consistent winning. And yes, I am aware that it's been years and years since they won a title, but they have remained competitive for an extremely long time given the way things work in the current NFL.

 
The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
You answered your question with a hypothetical. Your hypothetical assumes he doesn't kill someone. If he doesn't kill someone then wasn't the Pats choice a good one? I don't get it.
the pats choice was a good choice at the time, period.

since the deal was signed the situation has changed.
So the guns, strip clubs, and thug life were nonexistent between the day he got drafted and his extension? Got it thanks
omg he went to strip clubs?

source?
You're coming off like the 2nd biggest Pats homer I've seen on these boards.
wtmff who's the biggest??

I gotta call a couple buddies, but tell him I'll pick him up tonight around 2 am

 
Calculated risk. Didn't pay off. Simple as that. Thug or no, the odds you get busted for murder are pretty low. They rolled snake-eyes on this one.
Word. Hindsight is always 20/20. When the Rams drafted Lawrence Phillips with a top pick, clearly they were crazy for taking a character risk. Yet for Randy Moss's first five years we were constantly reminded how "dumb" every team was that passed on him before the Vikings was. (Usually during every Vikings game. Ex: Vikings vs. Cowboys would open with commentary about how Dallas was crazy to pass on Moss.)

 
The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
You answered your question with a hypothetical. Your hypothetical assumes he doesn't kill someone. If he doesn't kill someone then wasn't the Pats choice a good one? I don't get it.
the pats choice was a good choice at the time, period.

since the deal was signed the situation has changed.
So the guns, strip clubs, and thug life were nonexistent between the day he got drafted and his extension? Got it thanks
omg he went to strip clubs?

source?
You're coming off like the 2nd biggest Pats homer I've seen on these boards.
wtmff who's the biggest??

I gotta call a couple buddies, but tell him I'll pick him up tonight around 2 am
Keep trying

 
How did the Falcons not know that Michael Vick didn't run a dog fighting ringt? Or that Ray Lewis was going to be involved in a murder?

It's not being asked because it's a dumb question. The police didn't know Hernandez was involved in this murder in 2012 until now.

I thought the contract extension was a mistake because I felt he was over-rated. I will never criticize an organization for not foreseeing something like a murder. They probably knew he hung out with some "bad crowd" guys, just like a good % of the league. I would love to see the topics people would post if it somehow came out that the Patriots didn't pay a critical offensive player because they didn't like the crowd he ran with.

They thought they were taking a calculated risk, paying a guy with a checkered past big money. It turns out that guy was a monster. Simple as that.

 
I asked the same thing yesterday. How the hell did the Pats sign him to a huge extension without doing some type of investigation/psych evaluation?

 
I think most of the heavy duty incidents occurred AFTER he signed the extension. It seems like once AH got his big payday, he went back to his bad ways once the money was already in the bank.
So his whole "I'm so grateful to the Pats" and "Mr. Kraft changed my life" was all bull####? Looks like it.

 
I asked the same thing yesterday. How the hell did the Pats sign him to a huge extension without doing some type of investigation/psych evaluation?
Do you really think NFL teams do this before giving out contract extensions?

This isn't the draft. Hernandez has been working for the Patriots for years. He's been showing up on time, paying attentiong at meetings, and, most importantly, performing at an extremely high level on the field. He's obviously putting up a great front and fooled a lot of people around there.

I'm not sure what people expect. Hernandez was a little risky, yes. If he'd been arrested for DUI or drug possession or even just the gun charges, I'd probably say that was within the risk the Patriots probably knew they were taking. But expecting them to foresee Hernandez murdering someone is just silly.

 
I think most of the heavy duty incidents occurred AFTER he signed the extension. It seems like once AH got his big payday, he went back to his bad ways once the money was already in the bank.
So his whole "I'm so grateful to the Pats" and "Mr. Kraft changed my life" was all bull####? Looks like it.
The double homicide that he is being investigated for now happened in July, which was a month before he received the new contract.

He was living a double life.

 
The other question not being asked is what would have happened if the Pats DIDN'T extend Hernandez. Let's play this out. Say Hernandez played out his rookie deal and in 2013 he put up a season better than Gronk's in 2011. Then he would have needed a new deal (end of rookie contract), would have had to have been franchised, or he would have become a free agent. And let's say the Pats knew he was bad news and opted to let him walk. The same fan base berating the team for not doing enough digging and checking now would be screaming that they were insane for not wanting to pay him. The backlash for letting him leave town would have been insane.
yeah, there would've been a guy on here starting a thread about how the pats wouldn't pay him what he's worth

lolz
I have never seen where the Pats manage their teams because of what the fans might say. Is this something new?
I think it's more in terms of the Pats knowing that winning heals all and that the fans, on a day to day basis, have no idea what it takes to win. So they ignore the fans on a day to day basis (the nuts and bolts level) because they have to listen to the fans at the ticket office and merchandise stands (the money talks level).

So it's a constant balancing act of ignoring the fan when you know you need to so that you can listen to the fan when you know you need to.

 
I asked the same thing yesterday. How the hell did the Pats sign him to a huge extension without doing some type of investigation/psych evaluation?
Do you really think NFL teams do this before giving out contract extensions?

This isn't the draft. Hernandez has been working for the Patriots for years. He's been showing up on time, paying attentiong at meetings, and, most importantly, performing at an extremely high level on the field. He's obviously putting up a great front and fooled a lot of people around there.

I'm not sure what people expect. Hernandez was a little risky, yes. If he'd been arrested for DUI or drug possession or even just the gun charges, I'd probably say that was within the risk the Patriots probably knew they were taking. But expecting them to foresee Hernandez murdering someone is just silly.
But was he really fooling them? If he's doing what he's supposed to in terms of team obligations and work ethic, where is he being deceptive? Is he not supposed to be able to work hard in his professional life because he discounts the life of another human being?

I'd submit that if we think that work ethic and a drive to succeed in any way correlate with morality or a strong moral compass, we are ones fooling ourselves.

Wasn't it the same with Marvin Harrison? He came in and worked his ### off to be a great football player. He just so happened to be a pretty crappy person. To be successful in any endeavor usually requires commitment and drive that others lack. Whether that endeavor is building a small business or turning athletic talent into an NFL career or building an organized crime empire, a strong work ethic is there.

 
I asked the same thing yesterday. How the hell did the Pats sign him to a huge extension without doing some type of investigation/psych evaluation?
Do you really think NFL teams do this before giving out contract extensions?

This isn't the draft. Hernandez has been working for the Patriots for years. He's been showing up on time, paying attentiong at meetings, and, most importantly, performing at an extremely high level on the field. He's obviously putting up a great front and fooled a lot of people around there.

I'm not sure what people expect. Hernandez was a little risky, yes. If he'd been arrested for DUI or drug possession or even just the gun charges, I'd probably say that was within the risk the Patriots probably knew they were taking. But expecting them to foresee Hernandez murdering someone is just silly.
But was he really fooling them? If he's doing what he's supposed to in terms of team obligations and work ethic, where is he being deceptive? Is he not supposed to be able to work hard in his professional life because he discounts the life of another human being?

I'd submit that if we think that work ethic and a drive to succeed in any way correlate with morality or a strong moral compass, we are ones fooling ourselves.

Wasn't it the same with Marvin Harrison? He came in and worked his ### off to be a great football player. He just so happened to be a pretty crappy person. To be successful in any endeavor usually requires commitment and drive that others lack. Whether that endeavor is building a small business or turning athletic talent into an NFL career or building an organized crime empire, a strong work ethic is there.
the murdering people

 
I asked the same thing yesterday. How the hell did the Pats sign him to a huge extension without doing some type of investigation/psych evaluation?
Do you really think NFL teams do this before giving out contract extensions?

This isn't the draft. Hernandez has been working for the Patriots for years. He's been showing up on time, paying attentiong at meetings, and, most importantly, performing at an extremely high level on the field. He's obviously putting up a great front and fooled a lot of people around there.

I'm not sure what people expect. Hernandez was a little risky, yes. If he'd been arrested for DUI or drug possession or even just the gun charges, I'd probably say that was within the risk the Patriots probably knew they were taking. But expecting them to foresee Hernandez murdering someone is just silly.
But was he really fooling them? If he's doing what he's supposed to in terms of team obligations and work ethic, where is he being deceptive? Is he not supposed to be able to work hard in his professional life because he discounts the life of another human being?

I'd submit that if we think that work ethic and a drive to succeed in any way correlate with morality or a strong moral compass, we are ones fooling ourselves.
Hernandez gave some pretty emotional speeches by how touched he was that Bob Kraft felt he was worthy for the big pile of money he was paid, and talked about being more responsible now that he has a baby who will be looking up to him, etc. He literally teared up at some interviews. Then he goes home, and he's got a cache of illegal firearms and is one nightclub catfight away from executing someone. I think there's some deception there, but maybe that's just me.

 
DIdn't BB get more say in the front office when they let Pioli go?

If so, why does he get a pass?

IMHO the whole organization has some 'splaining to do - to Robert Kraft

 
Two of the most franchise embarrassing incidents ever belong to the Patriots under Kraft. Kudos to "the Patriot way"

 
What I would like to know is why many seem to think this in some way gives the Patriots organization a black eye.

I mean, I don't care about the Pat's team at all, not even the slightest bit a fan, but if anything I think this makes them look even better since they cut the idiot pretty damn fast. Basically as soon as he was charged with ANYTHING, they cut him.

Sure they could have done it a little sooner, but I think they cut him as fast or faster than any other team would have.

Every team makes mistakes signing people, and not the NFL is full of sweethearts, but this is anything but some sort of black eye for the Pats IMO. Like I said, I respect them even more for cutting him when they did. I think it was pretty sweet that you see "Hernandez charged with............" and then basically right after you see "Hernandez cut".

I also heard some media idiot say that this could be detrimental to being able to sign player in the future because it makes it appear that "the patriots organization might not have YOUR BACK if you get in trouble". Ummmmmm, don't f'ing KILL people, and they will have your back. I guess it's a bad think if this move turns away future murderers, who knew.

 
I can absolutely see how this could happen. They knew he was a risk coming out. They watched him and felt that while he'd had some skirmishes, he was worth the risk. I think it's kind of easy to think that every locker room is made of choir boys. The reality is that lots of these teams have bad guys on them. You take young men many / most of whom have been living an unrealistic lifestyle since they were 14 years old because of their athletic ability. Throw tons of money at them with relatively little supervision. And then throw them out to the world and it's actually more surprising to me we don't see more trouble than we do.

I think they thought he was a fantastic talent (which he is) that could be sewn up with a favorable contract catching him on the upside. That's exactly the Patriot way. They knew he was a risk but obviously underestimated the risk. Hindsight is always 20 - 20 in these.

At least that's my take.

J

 
This is ALL hindsight. I know some claim the opposite, but the "shoulda seen it coming" stuff doesn't wash for me. No way you could see this coming. You could see him getting charged with some little stuff maybe because he hangs with a rough crowd, but to see a murder charge? No way.

Look - playing the lottery is a bad, bad bet. It just is - the odds are horribly stacked against you. But if you play and you win, it seems like the best decision you ever made. It wasn't really, but you got lucky. This is the converse of that.

Signing him SEEMS like a horrible decision after the fact, but at the time, it may or may not have been a good decision. Even if we assume they knew he wasn't a "good" guy, it still could have been a good football decision to sign him based on the likely outcomes his behavior might have driven. They just won the anti-lottery.

Maybe half of the absolute studs in the league are total gang-bangers and they never get busted for anything because they are a little smarter or a little luckier or both? Maybe their teams know they are bad dudes but they sign them and they perform, and everyone is happy. I don't BELIEVE that to be the case, but it could be. We don't know what we don't know. Maybe those other teams are taking those same risks, but it isn't blowing up in their face.

If the Patriots didn't sign AH to a big deal, someone else would have. The numbers might have been a little different, but after his production on the field, he wasn't going for pennies on the dollar because he ran with a rough crowd. If he been ARRESTED previously, sure, he would have gotten dinged for "risk". But based on thug friends, and trips to strip clubs? Maybe teams won't QUITE go as crazy for him as they might for a guy with a sterling reputation, but for the most part, he'll get what teams feel he is worth on the field.

 
Hindsight being 20/20, knowing the risks, the Patriots got a great value for 3 years out of 4th round pick. As values in the 4th round go, you are looking for depth and special teams players there and the Pats struck gold, getting top shelf starter performance from him both in the regular season and playoffs. It was risk/reward, and it was a homerun by any statistical metric.

But the damage it's caused to the reputation of the Patriots for looking the other way regarding his character issues, and how it directly conflicts with all their preaching of the "Patriot Way" erased all of the acclaim of that homerun 4th round pick. They own the pick, it was on their watch. Swiftly cutting him on his arrest doesn't distance them from it at all. The "Patriots way" is now a cautionary tale.

ETA: and yes, there are dirtbags on every team. but it's still on the GM's to weed and cull the bad ones and let them fall out of the draft. if you roll the dice on 'characters', but are honest about it like Cincinnati for instance, you don't get as much criticism when it blows up on you. But when you preach lilly white morals and "patriot way" and it blows up in your face, don't expect any sympathy.

 
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I saw a stat recently. I can't remember where. It said that since the last super bowl 29 NFL players have been charged with some degree of murder. It was from a San Diego stat agency that keeps data for the NFL. That's an alarming number though. The link isn't the exact article but it is where the stat came from.

http://m.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/

 
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I saw a stat recently. I can't remember where. It said that since the last super bowl 29 NFL players have been charged with some degree of murder. It was from a San Diego stat agency that keeps data for the NFL. That's an alarming number though. The link isn't the exact article but it is where the stat came from.

http://m.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/
I think it's just 29 arrests, not all for murder.

That actually means some teams have no arrests. I actually think that is incredible. Less than 1 per team. I would have expected more. Doesn't Titus Young own like 5 of them though??? Or is it 29 different people.

 
Really, a thread on looking at a situation in hindsight and saying that it should been foreseen and done differently.

 
I saw a stat recently. I can't remember where. It said that since the last super bowl 29 NFL players have been charged with some degree of murder. It was from a San Diego stat agency that keeps data for the NFL. That's an alarming number though. The link isn't the exact article but it is where the stat came from.

http://m.utsandiego.com/nfl/arrests-database/
I think it's just 29 arrests, not all for murder.

That actually means some teams have no arrests. I actually think that is incredible. Less than 1 per team. I would have expected more. Doesn't Titus Young own like 5 of them though??? Or is it 29 different people.
Here's a link to a story that discusses it. The current count is 27 different players arrested, rather than 27 arrests.
 

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