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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (2 Viewers)

Reasonable summary?
I think there's a more nuanced argument that it harms national security by damaging the oversight relationship between the intelligence agencies and the intelligence committees.  Ideally, the oversight is meant to help our national security, but if anything the FBI and other agencies are going to be even more reluctant to share intelligence with the committees if they know that information is going to be grossly mischaracterized and that agency staff are going to be thrown under a bus.  

 
As i said the other day. This country needs to get a divorce. This country is headed in two different directions. No hard feelings but time to move on.
Seems to me we have three sides at play:

Side 1 looks at the sky, sees it is blue and understands it is blue.

Side 2 looks at the sky and believes whatever color Trump tells them it is.

Side 3 looks at the sky, knows it's blue and doesn't care that Trump says it's magenta as long as they are personally enriching themselves.

 
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The @RepAdamSchiff statement on the memo is crushing, even as Republicans continue to block the full minority memo. Read it:

https://democrats-intelligence.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=350

Washington, DC – Today, the Minority of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence responded to the release of HPSCI Chairman Nunes’ memo:

“Chairman Nunes’ decision, supported by House Speaker Ryan and Republican Members of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, to publicly release misleading allegations against the Department of Justice and Federal Bureau of Investigation is a shameful effort to discredit these institutions, undermine the Special Counsel’s ongoing investigation, and undercut congressional probes. Furthermore, their refusal to allow release of a comprehensive response memorandum prepared by Committee Democrats is a transparent effort to suppress the full truth.

“As the DOJ emphasized to Chairman Nunes, the decision to employ an obscure and never before used House rule to release classified information without DOJ and FBI vetting was ‘extraordinarily reckless.’ The selective release and politicization of classified information sets a terrible precedent and will do long-term damage to the Intelligence Community and our law enforcement agencies. If potential intelligence sources know that their identities might be compromised when political winds arise, those sources of vital information will simply dry up, at great cost to our national security.

“The Republican document mischaracterizes highly sensitive classified information that few Members of Congress have seen, and which Chairman Nunes himself chose not to review. It fails to provide vital context and information contained in DOJ’s FISA application and renewals, and ignores why and how the FBI initiated, and the Special Counsel has continued, its counterintelligence investigation into Russia’s election interference and links to the Trump campaign. The sole purpose of the Republican document is to circle the wagons around the White House and insulate the President. Tellingly, when asked whether the Republican staff who wrote the memo had coordinated its drafting with the White House, the Chairman refused to answer.

“The premise of the Nunes memo is that the FBI and DOJ corruptly sought a FISA warrant on a former Trump campaign foreign policy adviser, Carter Page, and deliberately misled the court as part of a systematic abuse of the FISA process. As the Minority memo makes clear, none of this is true. The FBI had good reason to be concerned about Carter Page and would have been derelict in its responsibility to protect the country had it not sought a FISA warrant.

“In order to understand the context in which the FBI sought a FISA warrant for Carter Page, it is necessary to understand how the investigation began, what other information the FBI had about Russia’s efforts to interfere with our election, and what the FBI knew about Carter Page prior to making application to the court – including Carter Page’s previous interactions with Russian intelligence operatives. This is set out in the Democratic response which the GOP so far refuses to make public.

“The authors of the GOP memo would like the country to believe that the investigation began with Christopher Steele and the dossier, and if they can just discredit Mr. Steele, they can make the whole investigation go away regardless of the Russians’ interference in our election or the role of the Trump campaign in that interference. This ignores the inconvenient fact that the investigation did not begin with, or arise from Christopher Steele or the dossier, and that the investigation would persist on the basis of wholly independent evidence had Christopher Steele never entered the picture. 

“The DOJ appropriately provided the court with a comprehensive explanation of Russia’s election interference, including evidence that Russian agents courted another Trump campaign foreign adviser, George Papadopoulos. As we know from Papadopoulos’ guilty plea, Russian agents disclosed to Papadopoulos their possession of stolen Clinton emails and interest in a relationship with the campaign. In claiming that there is ‘no evidence of any cooperation or conspiracy between Page and Papadopoulos,’ the Majority deliberately misstates the reason why DOJ specifically explained Russia’s role in courting Papadopoulos and the context in which to evaluate Russian approaches to Page.

“The Majority suggests that the FBI failed to alert the court as to Mr. Steele’s potential political motivations or the political motivations of those who hired him, but this is not accurate. The GOP memo also claims that a Yahoo News article was used to corroborate Steele, but this is not at all why the article was referenced. These are but a few of the serious mischaracterizations of the FISA application. There are many more set out in the Democratic response, which we will again be seeking a vote to release publicly on Monday, February 5th. Unlike Committee Republicans, however, we will ask the relevant agencies to propose any necessary redactions to protect any sources and methods not already disclosed by Chairman Nunes’ document. 

“It is telling that Chairman Nunes put out this memo without bothering to read the underlying materials, and that he ordered changes to the document without informing his own committee members. It is a terrible lapse in leadership that Speaker Ryan failed to intervene and prevent the abuse of classified materials in this way. It is tragic, if all too predictable, that this President would allow the release of the memo despite FBI and DOJ’s expressions of ‘grave concerns about material omissions of fact that fundamentally impact the [Republicans’] memo’s accuracy’. But most destructive of all may be the announcement by Chairman Nunes that he has placed the FBI and DOJ under investigation, impugning and impairing the work of the dedicated professionals trying to keep our country safe.”

The memo and letter from the White House can be found here.
That is a just a brutal takedown of Devin Nunes.

Holy crap...even without their own memo...ouch.

The NFL would flag this for unnecessary roughness.

 
What continues to boggle my mind is how this memo gets released and we are ALL looking at the same set of data/information/facts, yet the two sides are interpreting this completely differently.

Who or where is the ultimate objective source to bring some sort of reasoning and balance to summarizing what this really means?
It's not that unbelievable.  It all comes from people making judgments quick and early and without facts, and the two sides of the media (CNN and Fox News) doing their best to move people's opinions in a particular direction.  For the most part, people on the right are convinced the dossier is trash and Trump is innocent.  For the most part, people on the left are convinced Trump is guilty of collusion with Russia and that this is a vast conspiracy by the right to hide the facts and cloud the issue of his guilt.

Mueller is supposed to be the "ultimate objective source" to bring balance, but that will take time and patience and wont' provide answers today.

If you're looking for balance on this memo right now, you're not going to find it, because the information needed to make a judgment on this memo just isn't out there.  So you're left with partisan folks spouting their opinions.

 
That is a just a brutal takedown of Devin Nunes.

Holy crap...even without their own memo...ouch.

The NFL would flag this for unnecessary roughness.
Meh.  Doesn't seem brutal at all to me.  Just more meaningless partisan crap being flung at the other side.

 
:lmao:  at how bad this is. In a normal time, Devin Nunes would be done right this second.

If Paul Ryan had a spine, he would've put a stop to this.

The leaders of the GOP are a joke and the disgusting thing is the punch line is the destruction of our country. 
Democrats should continue to press until Nunes is removed from any such responsibility.

Its utterly ridiculous that he again has been proven to be a fool and nothing will be done,.

 
A part of me wonders if Wray wasn't daring Trump to release this pathetic memo so it would get the Papadopoulos information out there.

And for the record, I think that's the part that harms national security since it's reveals methods.

 
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Democrats should continue to press until Nunes is removed from any such responsibility.

Its utterly ridiculous that he again has been proven to be a fool and nothing will be done,.
Agreed. I said last week it's time to fight at every turn. Ryan won't back down and will likely continue to back Nunes but the Democrats have to continue pushing at the absurdity of allowing him to remain involved.  

 
For guys in the criminal law world - is it normal for prosecutors/police to put potentially exculpatory evidence in warrant requests? 
That's a really complicated question with a wide variety of answers for different factual situations.  Generally the answer is no, they don't have to put in exculpatory info into the application unless it was FULLY exculpatory - like it would disprove the claim of probable cause.

Example:  If police had probable cause that moleculo killed someone, but there was one witness who claimed whoknew did it, they wouldn't have to include that info in a search warrant application for moleculo's house.

On the other hand, if they thought they had probable cause that moleculo killed someone in Boston on July 1, but they had reliable evidence that moleculo was in L.A. on July 1, they should include that info.

Final example: Neither an officer texting his girlfriend with insults about moleculo, or a detective saying that he didn't want moleculo to be president, would qualify as "exculpatory evidence" for a warrant or at a trial.

 
The Democrats are readying for the fight. Bout time.

Kyle Griffin‏Verified account @kylegriffin1 52s53 seconds ago

Top Senate and House Dems have written to Trump, warning him against using the Nunes memo as a justification for firing Rosenstein or Mueller, saying they'd view it as attempted obstruction and that it'd cause a constitutional crisis not seen since the Saturday Night Massacre.

 
It's not that unbelievable.  It all comes from people making judgments quick and early and without facts, and the two sides of the media (CNN and Fox News) doing their best to move people's opinions in a particular direction.  For the most part, people on the right are convinced the dossier is trash and Trump is innocent.  For the most part, people on the left are convinced Trump is guilty of collusion with Russia and that this is a vast conspiracy by the right to hide the facts and cloud the issue of his guilt.

Mueller is supposed to be the "ultimate objective source" to bring balance, but that will take time and patience and wont' provide answers today.

If you're looking for balance on this memo right now, you're not going to find it, because the information needed to make a judgment on this memo just isn't out there.  So you're left with partisan folks spouting their opinions.
But only one side is trying to impugn the honor of Mueller.  

 
It's not that unbelievable.  It all comes from people making judgments quick and early and without facts, and the two sides of the media (CNN and Fox News) doing their best to move people's opinions in a particular direction.  For the most part, people on the right are convinced the dossier is trash and Trump is innocent.  For the most part, people on the left are convinced Trump is guilty of collusion with Russia and that this is a vast conspiracy by the right to hide the facts and cloud the issue of his guilt.

Mueller is supposed to be the "ultimate objective source" to bring balance, but that will take time and patience and wont' provide answers today.

If you're looking for balance on this memo right now, you're not going to find it, because the information needed to make a judgment on this memo just isn't out there.  So you're left with partisan folks spouting their opinions.
Here's how you can figure out who is in the right and who is in the wrong here, IMO:

Nunes is attempting to argue that a FISA warrant was sought and issued based on flimsy information and with political motivation.  Right?  No matter what you think about the memo itself, I assume we can all agree that this was his intent.

If Nunes, other Republicans and the White House are truly concerned about this problem to the point that they took unprecedented action, and not doing this for the more nefarious reasons the Dems allege, you would think they would try to fix this problem they've highlighted going forward, right?

So let's see if they suggest any reforms for FISA warrant applications or courts going forward, like some sort of more detailed oversight or a higher standard or something.

If (when) that doesn't happen, you'll have your answer.

 
Market down 400 points

down for the week by 850
As I've posted a number of times, if the Dow has a big correction, that is WAY overdue, Trump will lose what little support he has left.  Even the people that don't have money in the market can relate to a number going up and the wealth it creates.  The torches will come out and it won't just be the white supremacists.

 
I love how the memo includes that information, thereby invalidating itself.

I'm tellin ya, Stupid Watergate. Nothing sums up these clowns as well as that. 




 
Well. they're trying to address it because they know it will come out in response.  But their counter-argument is completely bogus.  It's October 2016.  They've had the Steele dossier information.  But by that time, they've concluded that the DNC hack was done by Russia and that George P. had been contacted about the emails.  So they had evidence of a Russian plot.  They had independent evidence of a connection to the Trump campaign.  And the dossier (compiled by a trusted source) named a known target of Russian intelligence involved in the Trump campaign.  The application revealed that the Steele was being paid by a US citizen, which means that the approving judge obviously knew it was opposition research.  Of course, it was opposition research!  Why else would a dossier be compiled? 

 
That was one of my favorite parts, and one of the things that made it so obvious that the White House helped write this. There's no reason to try to distance Page from Trump in the context of this memo, but someone clearly insisted that they add that irrelevant detail.
Most transparent President ever.

 
Well. they're trying to address it because they know it will come out in response.  But their counter-argument is completely bogus.  It's October 2016.  They've had the Steele dossier information.  But by that time, they've concluded that the DNC hack was done by Russia and that George P. had been contacted about the emails.  So they had evidence of a Russian plot.  They had independent evidence of a connection to the Trump campaign.  And the dossier (compiled by a trusted source) named a known target of Russian intelligence involved in the Trump campaign.  The application revealed that the Steele was being paid by a US citizen, which means that the approving judge obviously knew it was opposition research.  Of course, it was opposition research!  Why else would a dossier be compiled? 
I know nothing about FISA warrants but I do know they aren't granted based on only one piece of information (i.e. in this case the dossier). The fact Ryan and other Republicans who know this as well allowed this memo to come out tells you all you need to know their party over country approach. That Ryan could say yesterday this memo needs to be released in an effort to "cleanse" the FBI is reprehensible. 

 
As I've posted a number of times, if the Dow has a big correction, that is WAY overdue, Trump will lose what little support he has left.  Even the people that don't have money in the market can relate to a number going up and the wealth it creates.  The torches will come out and it won't just be the white supremacists.
Yup.  The marvel of Trump's approval ratings aren't that they are as high as they are considering how awful he is. It's that they are as low as they are considering the state of the economy.  Generally, presidential approval ratings track with economic indicators.  If/when things slow down we'll see him duck down to George W Bush 2008 levels or worse.

 
As I've posted a number of times, if the Dow has a big correction, that is WAY overdue, Trump will lose what little support he has left. Even the people that don't have money in the market can relate to a number going up and the wealth it creates. The torches will come out and it won't just be the white supremacists.
Every possible overbought indicator is exhausted - even more so than the subprime mortgage crisis and right in line with the dotcom bubble. It will correct and Trump will have accelerated it. This #### ebbs and flows and I think it would have happened regardless as to who was in office. Sucks for Trump. 

 
One year in, and President Trump has just declared open war against the truth, and all of its allies.
That started with alternate facts about the inauguration crowd.
That was just a skirmish escalating tensions.  Provoking judiciary, the free press, the intelligence community were all just escalating tensions.

Today though, open war declared.  Missiles launched.  Ground troops mobilized.  

 
Yup.  The marvel of Trump's approval ratings aren't that they are as high as they are considering how awful he is. It's that they are as low as they are considering the state of the economy.  Generally, presidential approval ratings track with economic indicators.  If/when things slow down we'll see him duck down to George W Bush 2008 levels or worse.
Here's something to think about:

In 10 years, who's gonna have to come along to make Trump look good, like Trump did for GWB?  

 
Here's how you can figure out who is in the right and who is in the wrong here, IMO:

Nunes is attempting to argue that a FISA warrant was sought and issued based on flimsy information and with political motivation.  Right?  No matter what you think about the memo itself, I assume we can all agree that this was his intent.

If Nunes, other Republicans and the White House are truly concerned about this problem to the point that they took unprecedented action, and not doing this for the more nefarious reasons the Dems allege, you would think they would try to fix this problem they've highlighted going forward, right?

So let's see if they suggest any reforms for FISA warrant applications or courts going forward, like some sort of more detailed oversight or a higher standard or something.

If (when) that doesn't happen, you'll have your answer.
They had their chance two weeks ago and didn't. Some ironic parts of vote to reauthorize

Nunes stripped major changes to unmasking procedures from the measure before presenting it for a vote by the full House.

White House cyber coordinator Rob Joyce said there have “been no cases of 702 used improperly for political purposes.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-backtracks-after-appearing-to-contradict-his-administrations-support-of-fisa/2018/01/11/5d7f7088-f6d1-11e7-91af-31ac729add94_story.html?utm_term=.66be1c3efcc6

 
A show of hands~

How many of you think obtaining a FISA warrant based on unsubstantiated political dirt, and leaking teasers to select media outlets to drive public opinion, is ok when the target of the surveillance is a creep?

Now~

How many of you think obtaining a FISA warrant based on unsubstantiated political dirt, and leaking teasers to select media outlets to drive public opinion, is ok when the target of the surveillance is your guy?

The only thing worse than the politicization of the FBI is the reaction to it falling along Party lines.  If the end justifies the means is ok when we get the outcome we want, we just fall further away from having any societal integrity.
:whoosh:

 
if the memo didn't have truth to it, the Democrats would never have argued to not release it

they did NOT want it released because its 100% accurate - that much is clear and its far worse than the memo shows I'd guess 

The depth of the lies and crimes and cheating of the DNC and Hillary have no limits do they ?
They didn't want it released because:

1. It is a serious breach in protocol and extremely damaging to the process;

3. It is incomplete and extremely misleading and an adequate response requires more of #1.

4. Rinse and repeat of 1 and 3 ad nauseam; see 1 above.

 
Gowdy didn't defend anyone but Mueller and Mueller isn't mentioned in the memo.  He could be spinning, particularly if the play is to fire Rosenstein and then promote Brand to supervise (but not shutdown) the OSC investigation.  Such as by constraining the areas that Mueller could investigate.

Note that while I know Brand is conservative, I also know she has a good reputation with DOJ.  NO guarantee that she would act according to Trump's wishes.

 




Gowdy is definitely a wildcard now.  How long until Trump turns on him?  3, 2, .....
i think hes seen the real dirt on the Russia stuff.  Knows it's real, doesn't like it, but doesn't want to blow up his party either.  So hes getting out.  I'm not sure if that means he has integrity or not, but hes been to the mountain top and seen the evidence, and he knows what it all means and what's happening.

 

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