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The Russia Investigation: Trump Pardons Flynn (21 Viewers)

“But making this merely about the bright line between illegality (criminality) and legality means that most Americans are missing what is right under our noses. To wit, there is no question that Russia made multiple, unprecedented attempts to penetrate a U.S. presidential campaign, that its approaches were not rebuffed, and that its contacts were sensitive enough that everyone, to a person, has concealed them. These facts might never be adjudicated inside a courtroom—they may not even be illegal—but they present a clear and present national security threat that we cannot ignore.” (Link)

 
shader said:
Any proof of a single word of the above?
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trump has been in bed with and laundering the money of russian mobsters connected to putin for close to 30 years. if you believe there are no "tapes" of this behavior that our IC holds, you are untethered from reality. 

you need to snap back to reality soon, otherwise i fear what the cognitive dissonance will do to your brain when this all comes out. 

 
The Indestructible said:
How are you able to say that the Strozk stuff looks terrible for Mueller but you can't say whether anything looks terrible for Trump?
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Because he hasn't yet filled his daily devil's advocate quota. Once he feels like he's sufficiently argued for one side he'll start arguing for the other. He must reach equilibrium. 

 
SameSongNDance said:
Trump is under investigation and his national security adviser, campaign chairman, foreign policy adviser and former aide have been indicted yet you continue to pretend that this thread is filled with a bunch of people talking about chemtrails and the illuminati. You're the literal worst. 
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If you were being honest, you’d admit that none of those indictments include any evidence of Russian collusion.

Im the worst for asking for evidence for bold claims that have no basis in reality? Sorry I don’t believe in your dream world.  

 
Bucky86 said:
@Joe Bryant @David Dodds

Can we get a clarification on this? Following Dodds lead, it seems like unsubstantiated claims against public figures was okay?
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Can we just leave these guys out of it. They have enough to deal with already.

Seriously, there's no need to add burden by forcing them to check in needlessly. Let's self police and carry on. 

 
shader said:
The pro-Clinton texts look terrible for Mueller.  We probably want to wait and see what the Kushner emails contain, before we try to compare them.
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Those texts were a gigantic nothing burger.

 
shader said:
If you were being honest, you’d admit that none of those indictments include any evidence of Russian collusion.

Im the worst for asking for evidence for bold claims that have no basis in reality? Sorry I don’t believe in your dream world.
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Yeah you're right they all lied to the FBI for ####s. Trump and his inner circle have lied about their contacts with Russian officials and those connected to the Kremlin every step of the way because they knew it was the path they'd need to take to clear their names. 

 
snitwitch said:
trump has been in bed with and laundering the money of russian mobsters connected to putin for close to 30 years. if you believe there are no "tapes" of this behavior that our IC holds, you are untethered from reality. 

you need to snap back to reality soon, otherwise i fear what the cognitive dissonance will do to your brain when this all comes out. 
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You’re the one claiming the president of the USA has been laundering money for close to 30 years.  Now I’m sure you don’t have a single bit of proof of this...but IM the one untethered?

For the record if you are accurate, I’d laugh.  I’m not emotionally tied to that ego-maniac at all.

But I’ll ask you a question.  How will YOU react if the Mueller investigation ends and none of the above pans out?

 
shader said:
Yeah..such a nothing burger that Mueller immediately took that guy off the investigation.

You do know that things aren’t a nothing burger just because you say they are....
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To remove any even thought of it being improper.  So Mueller did the right thing...hence, the texts are a nothing burger royale.

They are a nothing burger because there really wasn’t anything there.  No evidence of any actual wrongdoing.

 
shader said:
Are you serious?  There are actual text messages.  There’s nothing to jump to conclusions about because the evidence is out in the open. 
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Yes...there are text messages that said what?  Not a lot of anything...that’s the point.

We have emails and details of meetings with russia that have more meat...yet you still can’t comment?  

 
sho nuff said:
Yes...there are text messages that said what?  Not a lot of anything...that’s the point.

We have emails and details of meetings with russia that have more meat...yet you still can’t comment?  
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Thanks Rob I appreciate that. I am on the road at the moment but perhaps I just speak to Emin first. Seems we have some time and if it's what you say I love it especially later in the summer. Could we do a call first thing next week when I am back?

Best,

Don

 
shader said:
You’re the one claiming the president of the USA has been laundering money for close to 30 years.  Now I’m sure you don’t have a single bit of proof of this...but IM the one untethered?

For the record if you are accurate, I’d laugh.  I’m not emotionally tied to that ego-maniac at all.

But I’ll ask you a question.  How will YOU react if the Mueller investigation ends and none of the above pans out?
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it may end without any of this coming out (though it will come out eventually). but since there's plenty of obstruction type stuff they can get him on a la nixon, and since his approval rating is spiraling, and since the GOP is going to get its precious tax cut soon, its looking increasingly likely we won't need this to be public to get this charlatan out of office. GOP gets its tax cut, they look around and see how trump is damaging the party and their reelection chances, then their support erodes along with the already eroding public support. 

 
shader said:
You’re the one claiming the president of the USA has been laundering money for close to 30 years.  Now I’m sure you don’t have a single bit of proof of this...but IM the one untethered?

For the record if you are accurate, I’d laugh.  I’m not emotionally tied to that ego-maniac at all.

But I’ll ask you a question.  How will YOU react if the Mueller investigation ends and none of the above pans out?
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Wait, what? You think there’s no evidence Trump has been laundering money for decades? Trump Taj Mahal was fined for over 100 laundering violations in a year and a half in the 90s.

 
I think the key here is the Trump Team letter to Congress. They're running to Congress, not a judge. Interviews have been going on for some time. It's hard to imagine any of the interviewees being 'surprised' by any email unless they had thought it hadn't been disclosed.... which is precisely the reason Mueller would have gone to GSA, to ensure nothing was withheld. - Basically IMO I think Team Trump has drummed this up to boil the heat in Congress even higher.

 
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sho nuff said:
Yes...there are text messages that said what?  Not a lot of anything...that’s the point.

We have emails and details of meetings with russia that have more meat...yet you still can’t comment?  
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I'll comment.  Just can't take the fact that Trump won------------so it had to do with someone.  no way he wins

that's what I'm gathering over this thread.  pretty much my opinion.

carry on....................................................................................

 
Henry Ford said:
Wait, what? You think there’s no evidence Trump has been laundering money for decades? Trump Taj Mahal was fined for over 100 laundering violations in a year and a half in the 90s.
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Just to follow up on this, due to violations of anti-money-laundering laws, that casino voluntarily paid (rather than be prosecuted) almost a half million dollars in fines.  For violations over a year and a half. From the early 90s. 

It’s 2017. So I guess best case scenario it’s been, what? 26-27 years of money laundering? 

That’s leaving aside all the real estate deals he’s involved in that are the subject of indictments we’ve already seen in the past few months. 

 
I usually hate these game theory/long chain type tweets but this one is good. I'll try to condense it to make it more readable. 

The Hoarse Whisperer‏ @HoarseWisperer

Settle in, politikids. You're going to enjoy this... I've read the full letter Trump transition team attorneys sent to legislators re: Mueller obtaining their emails. It has a delicious reveal.

As we now know:

1) Mueller obtained ALL of the emails sent to/from Trump transition team accounts

2) The Trump gang only realized this after Mueller's team seemed to know all about their emails

3) This made them quite... upset

4) Thier lawyers then wrote the letter in the link to congressmen complaining about just how upsetting all of this is. Here's the classically amusing reveal in the letter...

Earlier this year, Trump appointed the top attorney at the office responsible for providing all the electronics and email accounts the Trump transition team used. That attorney's name was Richard Backler.

Now, as background, Backler was a white collar criminal defense attorney before his appointment. He helped rich criminals beat government convictions for a firm with a name you'll find familiar. Bracewell & Giuliani.

So, Trump appointed Backler and then Backler went and ensured Trump transition team attorneys that he would not allow his org (the GSA) to provide any of their emails to investigators. One problem: Backler fell ill and ultimately passed away.

So, until Mueller's crew started asking Trump aides about those emails, they had absolutely no idea Mueller had them because they thought Trump's guy on the inside was running interference for them. Let that one sink in.

Trump and his flunkies thought their friend at the GSA had locked their emails away *literally* in a vault no one could get to... They thought their bodies were all buried.

As a result, Trump's people walked into their interviews with Mueller and team with a completely false sense of confidence that he didn't know what he already knew in spades. They thought he was fishing. He was just reeling fish in.

Can you imagine the freakout that must have occurred in Trumpland when they realized their cleanup guy hadn't actually done the cleanup after all? Alllllllll of the things they thought they had buried were not only not buried; Mueller had them in writing!

While this is just conjecture, I suspect the entire Trump orbit just realized that Mueller has a trove that entirely hangs them out to dry AND brings them down for obstruction and lying to Mueller to boot.

Trump appointed a Giuliani guy to protect him from Mueller... ...and then the guy went and died just as Mueller was coming a'calling. Trump must be losing his freaking mind... ...even more panicked: Jared Kushner. Mueller is gonna roast them all.

Note: Trump team knew Beckler had died. They didn’t know he had failed to lock down their electronics and emails - and didn’t know GSA staff had produced them all without telling anyone.

One more note: as the letter in the link lays out, Beckler was incapacitated by August. He was hospitalized when Mueller’s crew came a’knockin’.
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Here's a link to the letter Trump's lawyers sent to legislators. And the reason it's being sent to legislators and not a court is because it's not even remotely illegal, GSA produced them to Mueller's team willingly. It also casually mentions that 13 members of the transition team are under investigation.

 
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Dinsy Ejotuz said:
How is a letter to Congress the legal remedy here?  If they were serious, and not grandstanding for PR purposes, wouldn't a court be the place to turn?  

My initial assumption is that Mueller is clowning them as they play with their 1D Rubik's "Cube", but someone please educate me on this:
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Sorry if I Hipple this but my guess is it's a political remedy, not a legal one.  

 
Henry Ford said:
Wait, what? You think there’s no evidence Trump has been laundering money for decades? Trump Taj Mahal was fined for over 100 laundering violations in a year and a half in the 90s.
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Shader, this is the problem. You act ‘above it all’ and ‘impartial’ but often you don’t know what the hell you’re talking about. 

 
SameSongNDance said:
I usually hate these game theory/long chain type tweets but this one is good. I'll try to condense it to make it more readable. 

Here's a link to the letter Trump's lawyers sent to legislators. And the reason it's being sent to legislators and not a court is because it's not even remotely illegal, GSA produced them to Mueller's team willingly. It also casually mentions that 13 members of the transition team are under investigation.
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It takes 10 seconds to realize Team Trump considers the emails "private records." It's kind of incredible what they're admitting to there - it says Beckler was going to treat the records as private. So basically Team Trump thought that they had put GSA records under lock & key. That's really funny, especially considering their defense of Flynn was that he was acting in a normal, pre-governmental policy making fashion. Can't have it both ways.

 
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SameSongNDance said:
Earlier this year, Trump appointed the top attorney at the office responsible for providing all the electronics and email accounts the Trump transition team used. That attorney's name was Richard Backler.

Now, as background, Backler was a white collar criminal defense attorney before his appointment. He helped rich criminals beat government convictions for a firm with a name you'll find familiar. Bracewell & Giuliani.
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Beckler worked for Giuliani then. Seems pretty clear.

 
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Are we 100% that e-mails held by GSA are always public?

Also, are activities/interview/testimony related to a Special Counsel in front of a judge?  i.e. what oversight is there that Mueller has the right to these e-mails?

 
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Hence why we have the complete Fox Mueller freak out this week.  Fox knows they are going down without rheir help so Fox is trying to stir up and much noise as possible so someone might do something.  Unfortuenaly for them there's no cause...nice try. 

 
Dinsy Ejotuz said:
Are we 100% that e-mails held by GSA are always public?

Also, are activities/interview/testimony related to a Special Counsel in front of a judge?  i.e. what oversight is there that Mueller has the right to these e-mails?
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First they are in fact public records since there is no executive privilege since Trump wasn’t President yet.  The second part would be if they were talking with their attorneys.  That could possibly be privileged, but there is a process to manage that conflict and if it ever gets to court, they can argue in front of a judge.

 
Sammy3469 said:
First they are in fact public records since there is no executive privilege since Trump wasn’t President yet.  The second part would be if they were talking with their attorneys.  That could possibly be privileged, but there is a process to manage that conflict and if it ever gets to court, they can argue in front of a judge.
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I suppose that the executive branch could classify them as secret or top secret so that they wouldn't be made public. But they would still be admissible in court, I imagine.

 
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