The Trent Richardson Thread (4 Viewers)

[Coeur de Lion]

I think RB20 is a very fair prediction, do you think it isn't?

IMO it's an average of what can happen. I really don't think he produces ~RB20 numbers.

Either he gets benched or puts up RB1 numbers, not a lot of middle ground for me. I'm leaning benched but what I don't see is him putting up mediocre numbers unless Bradshaw and Ballard get injured or are equally ineffective.

Agree with this 100% -- if the Richatdson from the last two years shows up, it'll be the Bradshaw and Ballard show. If he can step up his game, he'll be the workhorse in a fantastic situation.

Based on what is being said by people around the team (coaches, press, etc.), we will only have to wait for a few games to find out what the result is for Richardson. Granted, it's the offseason and this could all be coachspeak, and Richardson ends up in a RBBC with exactly 1/3 of the workload. That's certainly a plausible outcome. However, like you implied, it's far more likely that based on what is being said now, he will get a chance, and will either deliver or fail to deliver adequate results. Either way, as owners of Richardson, we should have a backup plan.

Full disclosure....

I have Richardson in a dynasty league. I did draft him at pick 1.02 in his rookie season, so I have certainly "gone down with the ship" so far. Therefore, I do have a "non objective" view of his situation. I also do think he will be fine this year, but i am prepared for him to flop. And by "prepared", I mean that I am already looking at which RB I would be picking with the first overall pick in the 2015 rookie draft. Since I have the two most polarizing RBs so far this offseason (Richardson and Christine Michael), It's very much sink or swim for my team this season. But I'm a Cubs fan, so I'm very much used to the "wait 'til next year" mentality.

IMO it's hugely unlikely that we learn anything significant about Christine Michael this year. But yeah, the Richardson question will be settled one way or another by about week three, unless he gets hurt.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think RB20 is a very fair prediction, do you think it isn't?

IMO it's an average of what can happen. I really don't think he produces ~RB20 numbers.

Either he gets benched or puts up RB1 numbers, not a lot of middle ground for me. I'm leaning benched but what I don't see is him putting up mediocre numbers unless Bradshaw and Ballard get injured or are equally ineffective.

Agree with this 100% -- if the Richatdson from the last two years shows up, it'll be the Bradshaw and Ballard show. If he can step up his game, he'll be the workhorse in a fantastic situation.

Or they could all be mediorer and all get work. I don't really see how it's an "either or" scenario.

 

[Clifford]

What I have learned: listen to Jim Brown.

What did old JB say?

Basically nothing special

 

[msommer]

I think RB20 is a very fair prediction, do you think it isn't?

IMO it's an average of what can happen. I really don't think he produces ~RB20 numbers.

Either he gets benched or puts up RB1 numbers, not a lot of middle ground for me. I'm leaning benched but what I don't see is him putting up mediocre numbers unless Bradshaw and Ballard get injured or are equally ineffective.

Agree with this 100% -- if the Richatdson from the last two years shows up, it'll be the Bradshaw and Ballard show. If he can step up his game, he'll be the workhorse in a fantastic situation.

Or they could all be mediorer and all get work. I don't really see how it's an "either or" scenario.

Bradshaw doesn't have a mediocre bone in his body. Of course he also doesn't have one that hasn't been broken...

 

[PatsWillWin]

I think RB20 is a very fair prediction, do you think it isn't?

IMO it's an average of what can happen. I really don't think he produces ~RB20 numbers.

Either he gets benched or puts up RB1 numbers, not a lot of middle ground for me. I'm leaning benched but what I don't see is him putting up mediocre numbers unless Bradshaw and Ballard get injured or are equally ineffective.

Agree with this 100% -- if the Richatdson from the last two years shows up, it'll be the Bradshaw and Ballard show. If he can step up his game, he'll be the workhorse in a fantastic situation.

Or they could all be mediocer and all get work. I don't really see how it's an "either or" scenario.

You are right. It isn't, but it is reasonable to assume it may be.

Huh?

Two people have said that either Richardson is going to get benched or be an RB1. I think that's absurd. There are plenty of scenarios in which he's a middling/low-end RB2 in a messy platoon.

 

[12punch]

What I have learned: listen to Jim Brown.

What did old JB say?

Basically nothing special

he said richardson sux

 

[Jrodicus]

I have Richardson in dynasty and he is obvioulsy a hold because no one is exactly beating down my door for him. I'm also not of the mind to give him away so he ends up being even more of a hold. I'd be surprised if I could even get a 2nd round pick for him.

However, I did hedge by trading for Bradshaw. I have always been a fan and I am hoping he is healthy enough.

I would still be surprised if Richardson just fell off the earth. He's still just a pup and has shown that he has the skills.

SURPRISE!

Cool story, bro.

Why don't you look through the play-by-play and see if you notice anything?

http://espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?gameId=331103034&period=0

 

[Skeletore Eh]

Trent Richardson - RB - Colts
Trent Richardson will open camp as the starting running back.
He may be on a short leash, but the Colts obviously aren't going to give up on Richardson even though he averaged 2.91 YPC in 14 games for them last year. They traded a first-round pick for him. Richardson will be given every chance to succeed, with Ahmad Bradshaw and Vick Ballard waiting in the wings.
Related: Ahmad Bradshaw, Vick Ballard

Source: ESPN.com
Jul 17 - 10:45 AM

 

[georg013]

Is there any we can get a picture of this leash so we owners can see just how short it really is?

 

[Skeletore Eh]

Trent Richardson - RB - Colts
Colts coach Chuck Pagano "fully expect(s)" Trent Richardson "to have a great year."
The story the Colts are selling is that T-Rich's 2013 struggles were primarily due to their in-season trade for him, forcing Richardson to learn an offense on the fly and never findoing a comfort zone. "Coming in under the circumstances which he did would be tough on anybody," said Pagano. "Certainly having a year under his belt and a full offseason ... he's put the time in and has a better understanding of the offense." Fantasy owners seem to be buying the Richardson kool-aid; his Average Draft Position has reached the fifth round.


Source: USA Today
Jul 18 - 3:56 PM

 

[12punch]

Is there any we can get a picture of this leash so we owners can see just how short it really is?

Watch tape of a random richardson run.

It'll be about that long.

 

[georg013]

Is there any we can get a picture of this leash so we owners can see just how short it really is?

Watch tape of a random richardson run.

It'll be about that long.

Huh? Oh yeah. Enjoy it now.

 

[Biabreakable]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

 

[Touchdown There]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

Quote from that article: Richardson revealed for the first time Thursday that he had a chipped collarbone and his AC joint had separated last season.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

I'm sure people will come up with something. We've heard some great ones the last two years: bad team -> ribs -> trade -> distracted d/t moving -> can't figure out playbook -> not used right -> line only blocks for other RBs -> Pep sucks -> needs ZBS -> collarbone -> etc. Richardson (and his rabid supporters) is going to be a comedic gift that just keeps on giving. And giving. And giving.

 

[Touchdown There]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

I'm sure haters will come up with something. Bradshaw (and his rabid supporters) was a comedic gift last year and will also be this year. I would like for his gift year after year, but 2014 is likely Bradshaw's last year in the league. Trent Richardson will end up being an average RB that you can count on for RB2 numbers on a good offense, year after year of giving.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

I'm sure haters will come up with something. Bradshaw (and his rabid supporters) was a comedic gift last year and will also be this year. I would like for his gift year after year, but 2014 is likely Bradshaw's last year in the league. Trent Richardson will end up being an average RB that you can count on for RB2 numbers on a good offense, year after year of giving.

Link to the rabid Bradshaw supporters? Bradshaw has been on and off waivers everywhere I've seen, usually multiple times within the last year. His current redraft ADP is RB71 in the 17th round. He doesn't have a dynasty ADP because he's not being drafted at all. No one is investing in him heavily anywhere. He's a decent freebie last roster spot type at this point for anyone who just wants to fade Richardson. No more and no less.

Meanwhile, plenty of people continue to make team crushing investments in Trent Richardson. If I grab Bradshaw off of waivers as my RB10 and he gets hurt in week 2, no big deal. The guy investing RB1 resources in Richardson is effed if / when he's on the bench permanantly after continuing to suck the first few weeks of the season.

 

[hxperson]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

I'm sure people will come up with something. We've heard some great ones the last two years: bad team -> ribs -> trade -> distracted d/t moving -> can't figure out playbook -> not used right -> line only blocks for other RBs -> Pep sucks -> needs ZBS -> collarbone -> etc. Richardson (and his rabid supporters) is going to be a comedic gift that just keeps on giving. And giving. And giving.

It is a true sign of a hater when a person has to dump on every little nugget of potentially positive information by countering it with the same arguments they've made several times before in the same thread.

Most normal people would take in any new information with an open mind and a healthy dose of skepticism and try to analyze why this info might be similar or different from past information.

I have no idea if a chipped collarbone or an AC joint separation had a negative affect on TRich's running ability, but rehashing previously mentioned excuses for his terrible play - several of which have not been disproved - adds nothing to the conversation.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

I'm sure people will come up with something. We've heard some great ones the last two years: bad team -> ribs -> trade -> distracted d/t moving -> can't figure out playbook -> not used right -> line only blocks for other RBs -> Pep sucks -> needs ZBS -> collarbone -> etc. Richardson (and his rabid supporters) is going to be a comedic gift that just keeps on giving. And giving. And giving.

It is a true sign of a hater when a person has to dump on every little nugget of potentially positive information by countering it with the same arguments they've made several times before in the same thread. Most normal people would take in any new information with an open mind and a healthy dose of skepticism and try to analyze why this info might be similar or different from past information.

I have no idea if a chipped collarbone or an AC joint separation had a negative affect on TRich's running ability, but rehashing previously mentioned excuses for his terrible play - several of which have not been disproved - adds nothing to the conversation.

There's NO excuse in the world for last year, guy. None. You're absolutely right that there's no point to any of this beyond simple amusement. No matter how terrible this player is, people will continue to grasp at straws and make more excuses rather than just admit that they were wrong and he pretty much just sucks. Anyone with an "open mind" willing to, you know, actually adjust their opinion based on, you know, what has actually happened on the football field, saw the truth by halfway through last year at the latest. The people still clinging to two year old pre-draft scouting reports are the ones refusing to see the facts on Richardson.

 

[Touchdown There]

Can't wait to hear Bradshaw's excuse when he is knocked out of camp practices.

 

[Dismattle]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

Quote from that article: Richardson revealed for the first time Thursday that he had a chipped collarbone and his AC joint had separated last season.

Im a fan (owner) of TRich..

However this is kinda interesting news, which would be quite a good read to hear what Jene believes

Im pretty sure I had what is called a Subluxation (1/2 dislocation shoulder)

Id almost want to say BS, if I could watch video of his head lowered and swiftly raising each arm to provide a stiff -arm type maneuver.

I might be making a bad comparison too..

 

[VaTerp]

I have never been high on Richardson. He always struck me as a better physical specimen that actual football player/RB.

But he does intrigue me this season for redraft as he can be had at value and there is some upside there.

Somewhere buried in this thread or one of the others I noted that in my observation, one of Richardson's major problems is that far too often he tries to jump cut and lands flat footed on both feet. This severely limits his ability to re-accelerate and gives defenders too many opportunities to take him down. I think it's the biggest reason he has such a low ypc despite ranking highly on some of the breaking tackles metrics. This is something that is coachable. I would have thought that this would have already been corrected but maybe there is more to it or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

But overall I do think some of Richardson's problems are coachable and can be improved now that he had a full off season with the Colts. I think his talent was always overstated and he has obviously been a huge disappointment thus far but neither means he cant have a bounceback season from a FF standpoint. Like many, I will be watching the development at Colts camp closely. I have always been a Bradshaw fan and there are points to be had in the Colts backfield but Richardson will be given an opportunity and I think there's a decent chance he takes enough advantage of it to make him a pretty good value this year.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Wait? I thought his excuse was learning the play book? Now it's an injury?

You're at least two excuses behind man. We've moved on to "line only blocked for the other guys" and now to "shoulder problem killed his vision and made him slow."

 

[Clifford]

I think what makes it hard those of us who really believed he had all-world potential coming into the draft is that last year was such an anomoly simply in terms of football. When was the last time you remember a starter at any position getting traded mid season? When was the last time a starting skill position player got traded for a first round pick? Also, it's just perplexing looking at the guy why he was so unsuccessful.

Right now I have a team going hard after him in dynasty. Well, basically they are throwing a bunch of hasbeens and likely never-bes my way like Seastrunk, Hakeem nicks, darick rodgers, and some other underwhelming player just for him. And honestly I can't even bring myself to counter for a 2015 first because I can't see exactly why he has failed. If he had been out of shape, a headcase, or just too slow or stiff to get past NFL defenders that would give me something to go on. But he's not. Which is why this whole argument has boiled down to "he sucks" vs "wait and see." Because neither side has anything really solid to point to as to why. You could watch every carry and ten different people will come up with ten different explanations of why he sucked so badly last season.

Made even worse is the fact that running back is probably the simplest skill position to learn on offense. The style of play doesn't change significantly like it does for QBs and receivers. So "he just can't grasp the position" argument that would work for a QB OR WR does not hold.

 

[hxperson]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

I'm sure people will come up with something. We've heard some great ones the last two years: bad team -> ribs -> trade -> distracted d/t moving -> can't figure out playbook -> not used right -> line only blocks for other RBs -> Pep sucks -> needs ZBS -> collarbone -> etc. Richardson (and his rabid supporters) is going to be a comedic gift that just keeps on giving. And giving. And giving.

It is a true sign of a hater when a person has to dump on every little nugget of potentially positive information by countering it with the same arguments they've made several times before in the same thread. Most normal people would take in any new information with an open mind and a healthy dose of skepticism and try to analyze why this info might be similar or different from past information.

I have no idea if a chipped collarbone or an AC joint separation had a negative affect on TRich's running ability, but rehashing previously mentioned excuses for his terrible play - several of which have not been disproved - adds nothing to the conversation.

There's NO excuse in the world for last year, guy. None. You're absolutely right that there's no point to any of this beyond simple amusement. No matter how terrible this player is, people will continue to grasp at straws and make more excuses rather than just admit that they were wrong and he pretty much just sucks. Anyone with an "open mind" willing to, you know, actually adjust their opinion based on, you know, what has actually happened on the football field, saw the truth by halfway through last year at the latest. The people still clinging to two year old pre-draft scouting reports are the ones refusing to see the facts on Richardson.

That's your opinion. We don't know that yet. We'll find out shortly.

Also, thinking anything you saw in his performances, either in college or 1.5 years in NFL on two different teams, as "truth" is exactly the opposite of keeping an open mind.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I have never been high on Richardson. He always struck me as a better physical specimen that actual football player/RB.

But he does intrigue me this season for redraft as he can be had at value and there is some upside there.

Somewhere buried in this thread or one of the others I noted that in my observation, one of Richardson's major problems is that far too often he tries to jump cut and lands flat footed on both feet. This severely limits his ability to re-accelerate and gives defenders too many opportunities to take him down. I think it's the biggest reason he has such a low ypc despite ranking highly on some of the breaking tackles metrics. This is something that is coachable. I would have thought that this would have already been corrected but maybe there is more to it or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

But overall I do think some of Richardson's problems are coachable and can be improved now that he had a full off season with the Colts. I think his talent was always overstated and he has obviously been a huge disappointment thus far but neither means he cant have a bounceback season from a FF standpoint. Like many, I will be watching the development at Colts camp closely. I have always been a Bradshaw fan and there are points to be had in the Colts backfield but Richardson will be given an opportunity and I think there's a decent chance he takes enough advantage of it to make him a pretty good value this year.

Eh? He's currently being taken as RB20 after finishing RB42 in PPG last year and getting flat out benched in the playoffs for a JAGish Donald Brown. He might be able to compile his way to meeting that ADP, particularly given Bradshaw's likelihood of injury and Ballard coming off of a major injury himself, but he needs to be a 100% totally different RB than he's shown thus far to offer significant upside past the mid-RB2 range. Possible? Yeah maybe remotely. But after > 500 NFL touches, it's hugely likely that he just is what he appears to be.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

I'm sure people will come up with something. We've heard some great ones the last two years: bad team -> ribs -> trade -> distracted d/t moving -> can't figure out playbook -> not used right -> line only blocks for other RBs -> Pep sucks -> needs ZBS -> collarbone -> etc. Richardson (and his rabid supporters) is going to be a comedic gift that just keeps on giving. And giving. And giving.

It is a true sign of a hater when a person has to dump on every little nugget of potentially positive information by countering it with the same arguments they've made several times before in the same thread. Most normal people would take in any new information with an open mind and a healthy dose of skepticism and try to analyze why this info might be similar or different from past information.

I have no idea if a chipped collarbone or an AC joint separation had a negative affect on TRich's running ability, but rehashing previously mentioned excuses for his terrible play - several of which have not been disproved - adds nothing to the conversation.

There's NO excuse in the world for last year, guy. None. You're absolutely right that there's no point to any of this beyond simple amusement. No matter how terrible this player is, people will continue to grasp at straws and make more excuses rather than just admit that they were wrong and he pretty much just sucks. Anyone with an "open mind" willing to, you know, actually adjust their opinion based on, you know, what has actually happened on the football field, saw the truth by halfway through last year at the latest. The people still clinging to two year old pre-draft scouting reports are the ones refusing to see the facts on Richardson.

That's your opinion. We don't know that yet. We'll find out shortly.Also, thinking anything you saw in his performances, either in college or 1.5 years in NFL on two different teams, as "truth" is exactly the opposite of keeping an open mind.

So, if we can't base our opinions on what he has done on the field, what exactly should we be going on?

 

[cstu]

I think what makes it hard those of us who really believed he had all-world potential coming into the draft is that last year was such an anomoly simply in terms of football. When was the last time you remember a starter at any position getting traded mid season? When was the last time a starting skill position player got traded for a first round pick? Also, it's just perplexing looking at the guy why he was so unsuccessful.

Right now I have a team going hard after him in dynasty. Well, basically they are throwing a bunch of hasbeens and likely never-bes my way like Seastrunk, Hakeem nicks, darick rodgers, and some other underwhelming player just for him. And honestly I can't even bring myself to counter for a 2015 first because I can't see exactly why he has failed. If he had been out of shape, a headcase, or just too slow or stiff to get past NFL defenders that would give me something to go on. But he's not. Which is why this whole argument has boiled down to "he sucks" vs "wait and see." Because neither side has anything really solid to point to as to why. You could watch every carry and ten different people will come up with ten different explanations of why he sucked so badly last season.

Made even worse is the fact that running back is probably the simplest skill position to learn on offense. The style of play doesn't change significantly like it does for QBs and receivers. So "he just can't grasp the position" argument that would work for a QB OR WR does not hold.

In hindsight this was a huge red flag. At the time I chalked it up to the Browns being the Browns but clearly they saw something wrong with the guy. They paid nearly $14 million for a little over a season of work and preferred a late 1st pick to nearly 3 more years of his services for less than $7M.

 

[Bronco Billy]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

I'm sure people will come up with something. We've heard some great ones the last two years: bad team -> ribs -> trade -> distracted d/t moving -> can't figure out playbook -> not used right -> line only blocks for other RBs -> Pep sucks -> needs ZBS -> collarbone -> etc. Richardson (and his rabid supporters) is going to be a comedic gift that just keeps on giving. And giving. And giving.

It is a true sign of a hater when a person has to dump on every little nugget of potentially positive information by countering it with the same arguments they've made several times before in the same thread. Most normal people would take in any new information with an open mind and a healthy dose of skepticism and try to analyze why this info might be similar or different from past information.

I have no idea if a chipped collarbone or an AC joint separation had a negative affect on TRich's running ability, but rehashing previously mentioned excuses for his terrible play - several of which have not been disproved - adds nothing to the conversation.

There's NO excuse in the world for last year, guy. None. You're absolutely right that there's no point to any of this beyond simple amusement. No matter how terrible this player is, people will continue to grasp at straws and make more excuses rather than just admit that they were wrong and he pretty much just sucks. Anyone with an "open mind" willing to, you know, actually adjust their opinion based on, you know, what has actually happened on the football field, saw the truth by halfway through last year at the latest. The people still clinging to two year old pre-draft scouting reports are the ones refusing to see the facts on Richardson.

That's your opinion. We don't know that yet. We'll find out shortly.Also, thinking anything you saw in his performances, either in college or 1.5 years in NFL on two different teams, as "truth" is exactly the opposite of keeping an open mind.

So, if we can't base our opinions on what he has done on the field, what exactly should we be going on?

Sex appeal

 

[hxperson]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

I'm sure people will come up with something. We've heard some great ones the last two years: bad team -> ribs -> trade -> distracted d/t moving -> can't figure out playbook -> not used right -> line only blocks for other RBs -> Pep sucks -> needs ZBS -> collarbone -> etc. Richardson (and his rabid supporters) is going to be a comedic gift that just keeps on giving. And giving. And giving.

It is a true sign of a hater when a person has to dump on every little nugget of potentially positive information by countering it with the same arguments they've made several times before in the same thread. Most normal people would take in any new information with an open mind and a healthy dose of skepticism and try to analyze why this info might be similar or different from past information.

I have no idea if a chipped collarbone or an AC joint separation had a negative affect on TRich's running ability, but rehashing previously mentioned excuses for his terrible play - several of which have not been disproved - adds nothing to the conversation.

There's NO excuse in the world for last year, guy. None. You're absolutely right that there's no point to any of this beyond simple amusement. No matter how terrible this player is, people will continue to grasp at straws and make more excuses rather than just admit that they were wrong and he pretty much just sucks. Anyone with an "open mind" willing to, you know, actually adjust their opinion based on, you know, what has actually happened on the football field, saw the truth by halfway through last year at the latest. The people still clinging to two year old pre-draft scouting reports are the ones refusing to see the facts on Richardson.

That's your opinion. We don't know that yet. We'll find out shortly.Also, thinking anything you saw in his performances, either in college or 1.5 years in NFL on two different teams, as "truth" is exactly the opposite of keeping an open mind.

So, if we can't base our opinions on what he has done on the field, what exactly should we be going on?

You can base your opinion on anything you like. But when you call that opinion "truth", that is hardly keeping an open mind.

 

[VaTerp]

I have never been high on Richardson. He always struck me as a better physical specimen that actual football player/RB.

But he does intrigue me this season for redraft as he can be had at value and there is some upside there.

Somewhere buried in this thread or one of the others I noted that in my observation, one of Richardson's major problems is that far too often he tries to jump cut and lands flat footed on both feet. This severely limits his ability to re-accelerate and gives defenders too many opportunities to take him down. I think it's the biggest reason he has such a low ypc despite ranking highly on some of the breaking tackles metrics. This is something that is coachable. I would have thought that this would have already been corrected but maybe there is more to it or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

But overall I do think some of Richardson's problems are coachable and can be improved now that he had a full off season with the Colts. I think his talent was always overstated and he has obviously been a huge disappointment thus far but neither means he cant have a bounceback season from a FF standpoint. Like many, I will be watching the development at Colts camp closely. I have always been a Bradshaw fan and there are points to be had in the Colts backfield but Richardson will be given an opportunity and I think there's a decent chance he takes enough advantage of it to make him a pretty good value this year.

Eh? He's currently being taken as RB20 after finishing RB42 in PPG last year and getting flat out benched in the playoffs for a JAGish Donald Brown. He might be able to compile his way to meeting that ADP, particularly given Bradshaw's likelihood of injury and Ballard coming off of a major injury himself, but he needs to be a 100% totally different RB than he's shown thus far to offer significant upside past the mid-RB2 range. Possible? Yeah maybe remotely. But after > 500 NFL touches, it's hugely likely that he just is what he appears to be.

RB20 is too high for me but I don't look at ADP that closely as I'm only in 2 redrafts of leagues Ive been in for years and go more by the tendencies of the other owners that I know pretty well.

If he's valued at RB20 in my leagues he won't be on my roster this year but I think he will be had for less.

And I disagree that he has to be 100% totally different than he's shown thus far. It was just 2 years ago that he was 7th in PPG in PPR. I have him ranked in the low 20s and there huge questions marks about ALL of the guys in that range. Richardson has just as many question marks, if not more, than those other RBs but he has more upside than a lot of them too.

Again, I'm typically on the other side of the T-Rich argument and have been since day 1. But now that the price to get him is lower I think he's worth the gamble in many scenarios.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

I'm sure people will come up with something. We've heard some great ones the last two years: bad team -> ribs -> trade -> distracted d/t moving -> can't figure out playbook -> not used right -> line only blocks for other RBs -> Pep sucks -> needs ZBS -> collarbone -> etc. Richardson (and his rabid supporters) is going to be a comedic gift that just keeps on giving. And giving. And giving.

It is a true sign of a hater when a person has to dump on every little nugget of potentially positive information by countering it with the same arguments they've made several times before in the same thread. Most normal people would take in any new information with an open mind and a healthy dose of skepticism and try to analyze why this info might be similar or different from past information.

I have no idea if a chipped collarbone or an AC joint separation had a negative affect on TRich's running ability, but rehashing previously mentioned excuses for his terrible play - several of which have not been disproved - adds nothing to the conversation.

There's NO excuse in the world for last year, guy. None. You're absolutely right that there's no point to any of this beyond simple amusement. No matter how terrible this player is, people will continue to grasp at straws and make more excuses rather than just admit that they were wrong and he pretty much just sucks. Anyone with an "open mind" willing to, you know, actually adjust their opinion based on, you know, what has actually happened on the football field, saw the truth by halfway through last year at the latest. The people still clinging to two year old pre-draft scouting reports are the ones refusing to see the facts on Richardson.

That's your opinion. We don't know that yet. We'll find out shortly.Also, thinking anything you saw in his performances, either in college or 1.5 years in NFL on two different teams, as "truth" is exactly the opposite of keeping an open mind.

So, if we can't base our opinions on what he has done on the field, what exactly should we be going on?

You can base your opinion on anything you like. But when you call that opinion "truth", that is hardly keeping an open mind.

If we're going to argue semantics, then feel free to change "truth" to "hugely likely to be the truth."

I'm genuinely interested in what an honest opinion that Richardson doesn't suck is based upon, despite my snark, so I'm all ears if you want to elaborate.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

I have never been high on Richardson. He always struck me as a better physical specimen that actual football player/RB.

But he does intrigue me this season for redraft as he can be had at value and there is some upside there.

Somewhere buried in this thread or one of the others I noted that in my observation, one of Richardson's major problems is that far too often he tries to jump cut and lands flat footed on both feet. This severely limits his ability to re-accelerate and gives defenders too many opportunities to take him down. I think it's the biggest reason he has such a low ypc despite ranking highly on some of the breaking tackles metrics. This is something that is coachable. I would have thought that this would have already been corrected but maybe there is more to it or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

But overall I do think some of Richardson's problems are coachable and can be improved now that he had a full off season with the Colts. I think his talent was always overstated and he has obviously been a huge disappointment thus far but neither means he cant have a bounceback season from a FF standpoint. Like many, I will be watching the development at Colts camp closely. I have always been a Bradshaw fan and there are points to be had in the Colts backfield but Richardson will be given an opportunity and I think there's a decent chance he takes enough advantage of it to make him a pretty good value this year.

Eh? He's currently being taken as RB20 after finishing RB42 in PPG last year and getting flat out benched in the playoffs for a JAGish Donald Brown. He might be able to compile his way to meeting that ADP, particularly given Bradshaw's likelihood of injury and Ballard coming off of a major injury himself, but he needs to be a 100% totally different RB than he's shown thus far to offer significant upside past the mid-RB2 range. Possible? Yeah maybe remotely. But after > 500 NFL touches, it's hugely likely that he just is what he appears to be.

RB20 is too high for me but I don't look at ADP that closely as I'm only in 2 redrafts of leagues Ive been in for years and go more by the tendencies of the other owners that I know pretty well.

If he's valued at RB20 in my leagues he won't be on my roster this year but I think he will be had for less.

And I disagree that he has to be 100% totally different than he's shown thus far. It was just 2 years ago that he was 7th in PPG in PPR. I have him ranked in the low 20s and there huge questions marks about ALL of the guys in that range. Richardson has just as many question marks, if not more, than those other RBs but he has more upside than a lot of them too.

Again, I'm typically on the other side of the T-Rich argument and have been since day 1. But now that the price to get him is lower I think he's worth the gamble in many scenarios.

He got a ton of work on a bad team as a rookie and put up good volume FF stats despite being a crappy NFL RB. The Colts are a playoff team, and they aren't going to continue to feed a bad RB the ball in order to justify the price they paid to bring him in, as evidenced by the split in workload between Richardson and Brown in the playoffs last year. No way he sees that kind of volume in Indy with guys on the bench (or available off the street actually) capable of outplaying him. If he doesn't make huge strides, it'll be Ballard or Bradshaw in there.

 

[VaTerp]

I have never been high on Richardson. He always struck me as a better physical specimen that actual football player/RB.

But he does intrigue me this season for redraft as he can be had at value and there is some upside there.

Somewhere buried in this thread or one of the others I noted that in my observation, one of Richardson's major problems is that far too often he tries to jump cut and lands flat footed on both feet. This severely limits his ability to re-accelerate and gives defenders too many opportunities to take him down. I think it's the biggest reason he has such a low ypc despite ranking highly on some of the breaking tackles metrics. This is something that is coachable. I would have thought that this would have already been corrected but maybe there is more to it or maybe I don't know what I'm talking about.

But overall I do think some of Richardson's problems are coachable and can be improved now that he had a full off season with the Colts. I think his talent was always overstated and he has obviously been a huge disappointment thus far but neither means he cant have a bounceback season from a FF standpoint. Like many, I will be watching the development at Colts camp closely. I have always been a Bradshaw fan and there are points to be had in the Colts backfield but Richardson will be given an opportunity and I think there's a decent chance he takes enough advantage of it to make him a pretty good value this year.

Eh? He's currently being taken as RB20 after finishing RB42 in PPG last year and getting flat out benched in the playoffs for a JAGish Donald Brown. He might be able to compile his way to meeting that ADP, particularly given Bradshaw's likelihood of injury and Ballard coming off of a major injury himself, but he needs to be a 100% totally different RB than he's shown thus far to offer significant upside past the mid-RB2 range. Possible? Yeah maybe remotely. But after > 500 NFL touches, it's hugely likely that he just is what he appears to be.

RB20 is too high for me but I don't look at ADP that closely as I'm only in 2 redrafts of leagues Ive been in for years and go more by the tendencies of the other owners that I know pretty well.

If he's valued at RB20 in my leagues he won't be on my roster this year but I think he will be had for less.

And I disagree that he has to be 100% totally different than he's shown thus far. It was just 2 years ago that he was 7th in PPG in PPR. I have him ranked in the low 20s and there huge questions marks about ALL of the guys in that range. Richardson has just as many question marks, if not more, than those other RBs but he has more upside than a lot of them too.

Again, I'm typically on the other side of the T-Rich argument and have been since day 1. But now that the price to get him is lower I think he's worth the gamble in many scenarios.

He got a ton of work on a bad team as a rookie and put up good volume FF stats despite being a crappy NFL RB. The Colts are a playoff team, and they aren't going to continue to feed a bad RB the ball in order to justify the price they paid to bring him in, as evidenced by the split in workload between Richardson and Brown in the playoffs last year. No way he sees that kind of volume in Indy with guys on the bench (or available off the street actually) capable of outplaying him. If he doesn't make huge strides, it'll be Ballard or Bradshaw in there.

Don't disagree with this. His 2012 production was all related to volume but he was still worse in 2013 than he was as a rookie.

We're sort of splitting hairs here but I just think that there is reason to believe he can improve and by virtue of playing in an offense that will move the ball, provide scoring opportunities, and has an OC who has a tendency to over-commit to the run he has FF potential.

From my view the ideal situation would be for T-Rich to continue to suck and for Bradshaw to take the job and stay healthy. Thats where the most FF points and value would be. But I'm not going to entirely dismiss the notion that T-Rich can improve enough to remain the lead back in a high potency offense.

 

[Kwai Chang Caine]

You have to admit that taking him in round five as a rb2 could be the kind of move that wins it for. You're not expecting him to be a #1 but once you get to really round 4 all the backs are questionable at best. I'm excited about the one team where I went heavy on top TE and WR talent and then grabbed him. If he gets anywhere near to 2012 levels then it's gonna be awesome. If he looks like garbage in September the. He's out of my lineup. I always assume I'll have a decent bench or get something of waivers.

 

[Clifford]

I think what makes it hard those of us who really believed he had all-world potential coming into the draft is that last year was such an anomoly simply in terms of football. When was the last time you remember a starter at any position getting traded mid season? When was the last time a starting skill position player got traded for a first round pick? Also, it's just perplexing looking at the guy why he was so unsuccessful.

Right now I have a team going hard after him in dynasty. Well, basically they are throwing a bunch of hasbeens and likely never-bes my way like Seastrunk, Hakeem nicks, darick rodgers, and some other underwhelming player just for him. And honestly I can't even bring myself to counter for a 2015 first because I can't see exactly why he has failed. If he had been out of shape, a headcase, or just too slow or stiff to get past NFL defenders that would give me something to go on. But he's not. Which is why this whole argument has boiled down to "he sucks" vs "wait and see." Because neither side has anything really solid to point to as to why. You could watch every carry and ten different people will come up with ten different explanations of why he sucked so badly last season.

Made even worse is the fact that running back is probably the simplest skill position to learn on offense. The style of play doesn't change significantly like it does for QBs and receivers. So "he just can't grasp the position" argument that would work for a QB OR WR does not hold.

In hindsight this was a huge red flag. At the time I chalked it up to the Browns being the Browns but clearly they saw something wrong with the guy. They paid nearly $14 million for a little over a season of work and preferred a late 1st pick to nearly 3 more years of his services for less than $7M.

It was a huge red flag at the time about the Brown's evaluation of their investment. Obviously they did not think they could build around him. They knew they had jack at QB as well and the ownership was changing. So there are some variables to be considered there other than his performance/potential, but it was clear they did not regard him as a key building block for their rebuild and instead opted for a first round pick that they turned into JFF.

What I am saying is we really don't have a lot of data to suggest the impact this has on the player that is traded midseason. It's so rare there is no comparable situation we can look at and say either "well, it didn't affect X that much, look at his post-trade production" or "yeah, when X got traded midseason his stats tanked."

There is no norm to compare it to.

 

[False Start]

Looks like we have his next excuse.

Not practicing today.

Left leg injury.

Vick Ballard just got hurt too.

Colts RB Vick Ballard was carted off the field with a left ankle injury during Friday's practice.

Stephen Holder on Twitter Jul 25 - 2:42 PM

 

[Clifford]

bunch of sorry-### excuse makers on that team

 

[stbugs]

You have to admit that taking him in round five as a rb2 could be the kind of move that wins it for. You're not expecting him to be a #1 but once you get to really round 4 all the backs are questionable at best. I'm excited about the one team where I went heavy on top TE and WR talent and then grabbed him. If he gets anywhere near to 2012 levels then it's gonna be awesome. If he looks like garbage in September the. He's out of my lineup. I always assume I'll have a decent bench or get something of waivers.

I actually think the opposite. First of all, if he is RB20 in ADP, then he isn't going to be drafted from 49-60, he is most likely gone 3rd/4th. Second of all, I have had teams with black holes at RB2 and you cannot assume you can get RBs off of waivers or a decent bench. My biggest issue is that I think Luck takes a next step and that doesn't leave a huge amount of room for running. Someone in the ADP/Lacy thread looked at top passing offenses and they didn't produce as many top 10 RBs. Look at the WRs they added and think about who is the "bell cow" on the team. It is Luck.

So, throwing that all together, I just think he is way too a risk of giving you nothing, i.e. being on your bench for a 3rd/4th round pick. I think his ceiling is very limited because I think Luck is going to improve, not the running game.

 

[IHEARTFF]

Andrew Luck could just throw the ball 800 times

 

[LOCO]

Ballard tore achilles I am getting sucked in again.

 

[Touchdown There]

Let's see how Bradshaw likes extra reps in training camp with the second string.

 

[Raider Nation]

Andrew Luck could just throw the ball 800 times

 

[jurb26]

Andrew Luck could just throw the ball 800 times

Or throw it 600 and run it 200. I'd be OK with that, too.

 

[12punch]

No more excuses for Trent Richardson

I'm sure people will come up with something. We've heard some great ones the last two years: bad team -> ribs -> trade -> distracted d/t moving -> can't figure out playbook -> not used right -> line only blocks for other RBs -> Pep sucks -> needs ZBS -> collarbone -> etc. Richardson (and his rabid supporters) is going to be a comedic gift that just keeps on giving. And giving. And giving.

It is a true sign of a hater when a person has to dump on every little nugget of potentially positive information by countering it with the same arguments they've made several times before in the same thread. Most normal people would take in any new information with an open mind and a healthy dose of skepticism and try to analyze why this info might be similar or different from past information.

I have no idea if a chipped collarbone or an AC joint separation had a negative affect on TRich's running ability, but rehashing previously mentioned excuses for his terrible play - several of which have not been disproved - adds nothing to the conversation.

There's NO excuse in the world for last year, guy. None. You're absolutely right that there's no point to any of this beyond simple amusement. No matter how terrible this player is, people will continue to grasp at straws and make more excuses rather than just admit that they were wrong and he pretty much just sucks. Anyone with an "open mind" willing to, you know, actually adjust their opinion based on, you know, what has actually happened on the football field, saw the truth by halfway through last year at the latest. The people still clinging to two year old pre-draft scouting reports are the ones refusing to see the facts on Richardson.

That's your opinion. We don't know that yet. We'll find out shortly.

Also, thinking anything you saw in his performances, either in college or 1.5 years in NFL on two different teams, as "truth" is exactly the opposite of keeping an open mind.

I'd wait another 5 yrs to find out if he's any good, but I don't think he'll be in the league that long

 

[12punch]

You have to admit that taking him in round five as a rb2 could be the kind of move that wins it for. You're not expecting him to be a #1 but once you get to really round 4 all the backs are questionable at best. I'm excited about the one team where I went heavy on top TE and WR talent and then grabbed him. If he gets anywhere near to 2012 levels then it's gonna be awesome. If he looks like garbage in September the. He's out of my lineup. I always assume I'll have a decent bench or get something of waivers.

so, you do understand when you take him in the 5th you're passing on another guy in that round that might actually help you?

 

[KID]

What I will be watching in the preseason is how he runs. Does he run or dance. If he hits the hole like he did with the Brownies his first year, he could be a value pick in the 5th round. On the other hand, if he dances like he did after his injury, he won't be worth having on your team. Stay tuned!

 

[Kwai Chang Caine]

You have to admit that taking him in round five as a rb2 could be the kind of move that wins it for. You're not expecting him to be a #1 but once you get to really round 4 all the backs are questionable at best. I'm excited about the one team where I went heavy on top TE and WR talent and then grabbed him. If he gets anywhere near to 2012 levels then it's gonna be awesome. If he looks like garbage in September the. He's out of my lineup. I always assume I'll have a decent bench or get something of waivers.

so, you do understand when you take him in the 5th you're passing on another guy in that round that might actually help you?

Hey man I like to swing for the fence around there you know what I mean? You're looking at Chris Johsnon (maybe), Jennings (Maybe) and Ray "Assault and Battery" Rice. If I'm using the stud TE/WR strategy, then yeah I'm taking a guy who is still very young and two years removed from a top 6 finish. I don't think that's crazy but that just me.

You know what I think is nuts? Toby Gerhart in the fourth round and likely on his way to the third. Your mileage may vary of course.

 

[ratbast]

He switched teams during a season, a known rarity because of exactly some of the things that are called "excuses' here.

Two NFL teams are willing to spend 1's on him in a 3 year span but according to some here he'll be out of the league soon.

His competition wont last through preseason and they didn't draft an RB or sign a veteran FA. Undrafted FA Zurlon Tipton might make the roster.

Im targeting him.

 

[Bamac]

He switched teams during a season, a known rarity because of exactly some of the things that are called "excuses' here.

Two NFL teams are willing to spend 1's on him in a 3 year span but according to some here he'll be out of the league soon.

His competition wont last through preseason and they didn't draft an RB or sign a veteran FA. Undrafted FA Zurlon Tipton might make the roster.

Im targeting him.

You're right, Tipton is probably a good target at this point.