The Trent Richardson Thread (4 Viewers)

[FreeBaGeL]

Meh, the cliffs notes is basically "yeah Richardson is missing the holes, but maybe sometimes it's better to just run where the play is designed even if a hole isn't there" and "yeah the other Indy running backs have done much better, but each of them individually have only a small sample size of carries, and I'm just going to ignore that all 3 combined have a pretty good sample size of carries".

Missing the holes? It actually said..

"Of his 14 carries, Richardson arrived at the intended point of attack to find it still viable just four times. That means that on 71.4% of his carries by the time he arrived at the hole he was supposed to hit it was already blown up!"

Yes, missing the holes. The author of that article is careful to mention only holes where the play is designed to go. He's essentially eliminating vision from the discussion entirely, since vision is one of Richardson's weakest points.

Look at the photo he uses to describe a play where the hole was stuffed.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ANBonus3.jpg

Sure, the play was designed to go up the middle and there's nothing there, but there is a big gaping hole one step to the right that Richardson is actually cutting AWAY from.

I'm sorry, but it's a bad piece of journalism. He even says in his article that it's a good thing that Richardson is just plodding into the spot where the play is designed and not trying to get through other holes that open up. Yet the other RBs on the team are finding those holes and being much more successful for it. He's basically trying to argue that if vision was irrelevant and every RB in history just took the ball and ran straight to where the play was designed, Richardson would have gotten a relatively bad beat in this one game.

If anything, Richardson is proving to us that vision is very relevant, and showing us what happens when a talented guy lacks the ability to do anything other than just plod into the spot the play was designed for.

and also

"Only Marshawn Lynch has more than the 34 forced missed tackles Richardson has tallied this season, and there is no back in football with a significant number of carries who is making people miss at a better rate than Richardson. This is a guy who is doing his best to make things happen, but so far hasn’t been able to overcome the plays crashing down around him."

This has been discussed ad nauseum in Richardson threads. Richardson is so slow out of his cuts and broken tackles that it essentially makes those broken tackles irrelevant. Big plays happen when guys run through tackles, not when they shake them off slowly, come to a dead stop, and have 5 more guys pile on them before they can get up to speed again. The latter is all Richardson has shown himself capable of. He can make a guy miss, but he slows himself down so much with each cut and has so little burst out of it that it doesn't really help him that much as it gives the other defenders time to get over and help.

He can break all the tackles he wants, but it doesn't mean much when that leads to YAC numbers that are below what a guy like Adrian Peterson gets with one broken tackle that he bursts through.

 

[Hang 10]

I mean this guy is somewhere.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hk2N0-Uvyt8

Pretty unimpressive.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

At Alabama, he was running behind an O-line of future NFL players against teams that didn't always have multiple defenders that were future NFL'ers. So his "vision" in seeing and exploiting huge holes might have been over-rated. Most of his big runs/catches (including the Cincy clip) in the NFL (that I've seen) were not a result of him having great vision, exactly; he had a decent hole, or caught the ball in space; then he was able to get up to speed and run through tackles (many of them by DBs, not D-linemen). He is a very physical runner, and if/when he gets up to speed, he can be tough to tackle, especially since IF he is able to get up to speed, it is the smaller DBs trying to tackle him, rather than D-linemen or LBs. Based on what I've seen, he doesn't have great short area quickness or great vision. So, unless he has an O-line that can open up decent holes, he will have trouble getting to that 2nd level.

I don't know that I buy this. It's nice playing behind NFL talent, but he's playing against it too. He was playing against LSU, Florida, SCar, UGA,etc. As we can see - those teams had tons of defenders drafted by the NFL; early and often.

I don't have time to do a whole lot of research right now, but here's a real quick "defense" for my point.

Richardson was drafted in 2012. In that same draft, there were 9 non-Alabama DL or LBs** drafted out of the SEC. 3 went in the first round, 1 each in the 4th, 5th, & 6th, and 3 in the 7th. Only two of those players were on the same team (South Carolina). So, yes, the SEC produces NFL talent, but usually only a player or two up front. That's not even remotely the same as facing an entire front seven of NFL players. During his time in Alabama, Trent ran behind 4 O-linemen that have been drafted to the NFL, 3 first-rounders, and 1 3rd rounder. When you have multiple future NFL players blocking for you against only 1 (maybe 2) future NFL defenders, you are likely to seem some big holes & running lanes. When Richardson gets those holes, he is able to exploit his top-end speed and physicality. When he doesn't, it seems like his vision and short-area quickness aren't sufficient to "make something out of nothing."

**I'm only counting DL & LB's because (as I've already posted), I think Richardson's very effective when he is able to get up a head of steam, even against NFL DBs**

that about sums it up.

except for that last line about beating a db

Just to be clear, I'm not saying he is faster than a DB, but that IF he gets up a head of steam, at that point, he is usually up against a DB, and it is easier for him to run through a DB tackle than that of a DL or LB.

mythbusted

I guess you just took that on faith -- I'd ask for an actual counterexample, but I doubt he's gotten to the secondary on another run this year

 

[Bayhawks]

At Alabama, he was running behind an O-line of future NFL players against teams that didn't always have multiple defenders that were future NFL'ers. So his "vision" in seeing and exploiting huge holes might have been over-rated. Most of his big runs/catches (including the Cincy clip) in the NFL (that I've seen) were not a result of him having great vision, exactly; he had a decent hole, or caught the ball in space; then he was able to get up to speed and run through tackles (many of them by DBs, not D-linemen). He is a very physical runner, and if/when he gets up to speed, he can be tough to tackle, especially since IF he is able to get up to speed, it is the smaller DBs trying to tackle him, rather than D-linemen or LBs. Based on what I've seen, he doesn't have great short area quickness or great vision. So, unless he has an O-line that can open up decent holes, he will have trouble getting to that 2nd level.

I don't know that I buy this. It's nice playing behind NFL talent, but he's playing against it too. He was playing against LSU, Florida, SCar, UGA,etc. As we can see - those teams had tons of defenders drafted by the NFL; early and often.

I don't have time to do a whole lot of research right now, but here's a real quick "defense" for my point.

Richardson was drafted in 2012. In that same draft, there were 9 non-Alabama DL or LBs** drafted out of the SEC. 3 went in the first round, 1 each in the 4th, 5th, & 6th, and 3 in the 7th. Only two of those players were on the same team (South Carolina). So, yes, the SEC produces NFL talent, but usually only a player or two up front. That's not even remotely the same as facing an entire front seven of NFL players. During his time in Alabama, Trent ran behind 4 O-linemen that have been drafted to the NFL, 3 first-rounders, and 1 3rd rounder. When you have multiple future NFL players blocking for you against only 1 (maybe 2) future NFL defenders, you are likely to seem some big holes & running lanes. When Richardson gets those holes, he is able to exploit his top-end speed and physicality. When he doesn't, it seems like his vision and short-area quickness aren't sufficient to "make something out of nothing."

**I'm only counting DL & LB's because (as I've already posted), I think Richardson's very effective when he is able to get up a head of steam, even against NFL DBs**

that about sums it up.

except for that last line about beating a db

Just to be clear, I'm not saying he is faster than a DB, but that IF he gets up a head of steam, at that point, he is usually up against a DB, and it is easier for him to run through a DB tackle than that of a DL or LB.

mythbusted

I guess you just took that on faith -- I'd ask for an actual counterexample, but I doubt he's gotten to the secondary on another run this year

I'm not sure what you are trying to do here? The link shows Richardson being tackled by Earl Thomas (I think-it's a set of still pictures).

I didn't say Richardson will absolutely run through every DB tackle, 100% of the time; but that it is easier for him to run through the attempted tackles of DBs than DL or LBs. You providing one picture of a DB tackling Richardson doesn't refute that statement, just as someone finding one instance of Richardson making a good move doesn't mean that he has good vision. Do you really think it is harder for Richardson to break the tackle of a 300 lb D-lineman/ 250 lb LB or of a 200 lb safety?

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

it might not refute it beyond a shadow of a doubt, but it's more evidence than you've shown to the contrary.

 

[Fireman Ed]

Donald brown is doing more than Richardson with the same linemen and Brown isnt a good running back. Richardson runs like he is wearing cement shoes. He is a very expensive plodder.

 

[Bayhawks]

it might not refute it beyond a shadow of a doubt, but it's more evidence than you've shown to the contrary.

Huh???? Contrary of what? You're saying Richardson can't break tackles by DBs? You want me to show evidence to the contrary of that?

Here's a link of him breaking tackles by 3 DBs on a TD reception. There, I've given evidence that he can break tackles by DB. You happy?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/0ap2000000062524/WK-2-Can-t-Miss-Play-Richardson-won-t-be-denied

 

[werdnoynek]

Meh, the cliffs notes is basically "yeah Richardson is missing the holes, but maybe sometimes it's better to just run where the play is designed even if a hole isn't there" and "yeah the other Indy running backs have done much better, but each of them individually have only a small sample size of carries, and I'm just going to ignore that all 3 combined have a pretty good sample size of carries".

Missing the holes? It actually said..

"Of his 14 carries, Richardson arrived at the intended point of attack to find it still viable just four times. That means that on 71.4% of his carries by the time he arrived at the hole he was supposed to hit it was already blown up!"

Yes, missing the holes. The author of that article is careful to mention only holes where the play is designed to go. He's essentially eliminating vision from the discussion entirely, since vision is one of Richardson's weakest points.

Look at the photo he uses to describe a play where the hole was stuffed.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/ANBonus3.jpg

Sure, the play was designed to go up the middle and there's nothing there, but there is a big gaping hole one step to the right that Richardson is actually cutting AWAY from.

I'm sorry, but it's a bad piece of journalism. He even says in his article that it's a good thing that Richardson is just plodding into the spot where the play is designed and not trying to get through other holes that open up. Yet the other RBs on the team are finding those holes and being much more successful for it. He's basically trying to argue that if vision was irrelevant and every RB in history just took the ball and ran straight to where the play was designed, Richardson would have gotten a relatively bad beat in this one game.

If anything, Richardson is proving to us that vision is very relevant, and showing us what happens when a talented guy lacks the ability to do anything other than just plod into the spot the play was designed for.

and also

"Only Marshawn Lynch has more than the 34 forced missed tackles Richardson has tallied this season, and there is no back in football with a significant number of carries who is making people miss at a better rate than Richardson. This is a guy who is doing his best to make things happen, but so far hasn’t been able to overcome the plays crashing down around him."

This has been discussed ad nauseum in Richardson threads. Richardson is so slow out of his cuts and broken tackles that it essentially makes those broken tackles irrelevant. Big plays happen when guys run through tackles, not when they shake them off slowly, come to a dead stop, and have 5 more guys pile on them before they can get up to speed again. The latter is all Richardson has shown himself capable of. He can make a guy miss, but he slows himself down so much with each cut and has so little burst out of it that it doesn't really help him that much as it gives the other defenders time to get over and help.

He can break all the tackles he wants, but it doesn't mean much when that leads to YAC numbers that are below what a guy like Adrian Peterson gets with one broken tackle that he bursts through.

I respect your subjective take but it's lacking any real substance. Firstly, the gaping hole you're referring to isn't gaping. Rewatching the game, the DT that is right in front of him is collapsing that hole and it's completely closed as he continues to cut to the left. Secondly. when we add up Trich's YAC in Cleveland this season (75 yds) and in Indy this season (151 yds) - the 226 YAC we get would put him at #12 in the NFL. I'd argue that those numbers are actually quite impressive considering what he's had for blocking.

 

[Concept Coop]

At Alabama, he was running behind an O-line of future NFL players against teams that didn't always have multiple defenders that were future NFL'ers. So his "vision" in seeing and exploiting huge holes might have been over-rated. Most of his big runs/catches (including the Cincy clip) in the NFL (that I've seen) were not a result of him having great vision, exactly; he had a decent hole, or caught the ball in space; then he was able to get up to speed and run through tackles (many of them by DBs, not D-linemen). He is a very physical runner, and if/when he gets up to speed, he can be tough to tackle, especially since IF he is able to get up to speed, it is the smaller DBs trying to tackle him, rather than D-linemen or LBs. Based on what I've seen, he doesn't have great short area quickness or great vision. So, unless he has an O-line that can open up decent holes, he will have trouble getting to that 2nd level.

I don't know that I buy this. It's nice playing behind NFL talent, but he's playing against it too. He was playing against LSU, Florida, SCar, UGA,etc. As we can see - those teams had tons of defenders drafted by the NFL; early and often.

I don't have time to do a whole lot of research right now, but here's a real quick "defense" for my point.

Richardson was drafted in 2012. In that same draft, there were 9 non-Alabama DL or LBs** drafted out of the SEC. 3 went in the first round, 1 each in the 4th, 5th, & 6th, and 3 in the 7th. Only two of those players were on the same team (South Carolina). So, yes, the SEC produces NFL talent, but usually only a player or two up front. That's not even remotely the same as facing an entire front seven of NFL players. During his time in Alabama, Trent ran behind 4 O-linemen that have been drafted to the NFL, 3 first-rounders, and 1 3rd rounder. When you have multiple future NFL players blocking for you against only 1 (maybe 2) future NFL defenders, you are likely to seem some big holes & running lanes. When Richardson gets those holes, he is able to exploit his top-end speed and physicality. When he doesn't, it seems like his vision and short-area quickness aren't sufficient to "make something out of nothing."

**I'm only counting DL & LB's because (as I've already posted), I think Richardson's very effective when he is able to get up a head of steam, even against NFL DBs**

That's one draft, and not exactly indicative of "NFL talent". You're comparing 1 year of data to 3-5 years of data.

He played behind the best offensive line in the nation, but he also played against the best defenses in the nation.

 

[Bayhawks]

At Alabama, he was running behind an O-line of future NFL players against teams that didn't always have multiple defenders that were future NFL'ers. So his "vision" in seeing and exploiting huge holes might have been over-rated. Most of his big runs/catches (including the Cincy clip) in the NFL (that I've seen) were not a result of him having great vision, exactly; he had a decent hole, or caught the ball in space; then he was able to get up to speed and run through tackles (many of them by DBs, not D-linemen). He is a very physical runner, and if/when he gets up to speed, he can be tough to tackle, especially since IF he is able to get up to speed, it is the smaller DBs trying to tackle him, rather than D-linemen or LBs. Based on what I've seen, he doesn't have great short area quickness or great vision. So, unless he has an O-line that can open up decent holes, he will have trouble getting to that 2nd level.

I don't know that I buy this. It's nice playing behind NFL talent, but he's playing against it too. He was playing against LSU, Florida, SCar, UGA,etc. As we can see - those teams had tons of defenders drafted by the NFL; early and often.

I don't have time to do a whole lot of research right now, but here's a real quick "defense" for my point.

Richardson was drafted in 2012. In that same draft, there were 9 non-Alabama DL or LBs** drafted out of the SEC. 3 went in the first round, 1 each in the 4th, 5th, & 6th, and 3 in the 7th. Only two of those players were on the same team (South Carolina). So, yes, the SEC produces NFL talent, but usually only a player or two up front. That's not even remotely the same as facing an entire front seven of NFL players. During his time in Alabama, Trent ran behind 4 O-linemen that have been drafted to the NFL, 3 first-rounders, and 1 3rd rounder. When you have multiple future NFL players blocking for you against only 1 (maybe 2) future NFL defenders, you are likely to seem some big holes & running lanes. When Richardson gets those holes, he is able to exploit his top-end speed and physicality. When he doesn't, it seems like his vision and short-area quickness aren't sufficient to "make something out of nothing."

**I'm only counting DL & LB's because (as I've already posted), I think Richardson's very effective when he is able to get up a head of steam, even against NFL DBs**

That's one draft, and not exactly indicative of "NFL talent". You're comparing 1 year of data to 3-5 years of data.

He played behind the best offensive line in the nation, but he also played against the best defenses in the nation.

Did you read my post? It started with "I don't have time to do a whole lot of research right now." If you want to refute the point, please feel free to do so. Instead of just offering generic "he played against the best defenses in the nation," show us what NFL caliber defenders he played against, and how many of them were on the same team. Because that's the point; while the SEC may produce a lot of NFL defenders, unless there were several of them in the front 7 of those defenses, my point stands: Richardson's college numbers were not just based on his talent, but rather the talent on Alabama's offense and the lack of NFL talent on the defensive front 7's he faced.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

Did you read my post? It started with "I don't have time to do a whole lot of research right now." If you want to refute the point, please feel free to do so. Instead of just offering generic "he played against the best defenses in the nation," show us what NFL caliber defenders he played against, and how many of them were on the same team. Because that's the point; while the SEC may produce a lot of NFL defenders, unless there were several of them in the front 7 of those defenses, my point stands: Richardson's college numbers were not just based on his talent, but rather the talent on Alabama's offense and the lack of NFL talent on the defensive front 7's he faced.

I don't have a horse in this, but LSU did have 8 defensive players drafted last year, 6 of them in the first 3 rounds. In fact, I believe LSU had more defensive players drafted in the first three rounds than the entire Big 10 conference.

ETA: LSU had 12 defensive players drafted in 2012 and 2013 combined, which should make up just about the entire defense that Richardson faced when he ran against LSU in the 2011 season.

Florida had 5 defensive players drafted in those two years.

Georgia had 9 defensive players drafted in those two years.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

jim brown was right

 

[BearsFan4Life]

Just dealt him in 14 Team Dynasty for DJax and a 2nd Round Rookie Pick ..sick of him as most owners are

 

[duaneok66]

Like others have mentioned, he isn't even the best RB on his own team.

 

[nastynate]

He needs to rethink his offseason training regimen -- focus more on conditioning and explosiveness.

 

[werdnoynek]

Like others have mentioned, he isn't even the best RB on his own team.

 

[PatsWillWin]

I did a breakdown of all 18 of his carries against Seattle. I haven't written it all up because I'm too busy (I occassionally have articles posted on a non-FBG fantasy site) but I'll echo what FreeBaGeL is saying here re: Richardson's vision.

The SEA defensive line destroyed IND's offensive line. It was almost comical. The Colts used a pulling guard on almost every play (usually #75, forget his name) and he was tripping over himself, bumping into other OL because they were getting immediately driven back into the backfield, etc. On most of Richardson's carries, there was no hole where there was clearly meant to be one.

That said, he seems completely unable to improvise. There was one play where the center was driven straight back into Richardson, and rather than see the movement and take a wider angle to avoid it, he like ran up to the center's back, then realized he had to change direction.

On the one or two plays there was a hole, Richardson got what was there, and then some. But despite his poor blocking, he was simply not impressive in any way.

As for Brown, he plays more often in other kinds of offensive formations that make him have to face fewer in the box. His long run in the SEA game was a draw out of the shotgun. Trent got a similar carry in the game and had about a 10 yard run.

Richardson is the one that gets lined up with a FB in the backfield (#46, who is actually a TE I think), and runs the inside traps/counters with the pulling guard. He also got the 4 minute offense carries, and was tackled several times by the extra safety that was up in the box (Chancellor, if memory serves).

That's a lot of pros/cons, but the overall feeling I get from Richardson is that there are a lot of reasons why he's not being put in a good position to succeed...yet despite that, he's not impressive anyway. He's not someone I want to go out and buy. I think it's very possible that he's a mediocre player.

 

[Nero]

His first NFL game. Looks like the same guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axpZCgirLJM

 

[Team ROFLCOPTERS]

That's a lot of pros/cons, but the overall feeling I get from Richardson is that there are a lot of reasons why he's not being put in a good position to succeed...yet despite that, he's not impressive anyway. He's not someone I want to go out and buy. I think it's very possible that he's a mediocre player.

Not being put in a position to succeed in Cleveland too? How come every RB had a better YPC in the 1.3 years he was there? How come all of the Indy backs have a better YPC?

 

[PatsWillWin]

That's a lot of pros/cons, but the overall feeling I get from Richardson is that there are a lot of reasons why he's not being put in a good position to succeed...yet despite that, he's not impressive anyway. He's not someone I want to go out and buy. I think it's very possible that he's a mediocre player.

Not being put in a position to succeed in Cleveland too? How come every RB had a better YPC in the 1.3 years he was there? How come all of the Indy backs have a better YPC?

I didn't see much of him in Cleveland, and wouldn't want to try and explain his performance there. As for IND, I think Trent gets used in certain ways and formations that will tend to have a downward pull on his YPC. In the first half of that SEA game, for example, he carried the ball exlcusively out of a running formation, meaning there was a TE, and usually someone lined up as FB. This brings defenders up, that's a simple truth. That means there's an extra defender there that is likely not accounted for in a blocking scheme. If that defender makes a good read and gets there, Richardson's chances of breaking a longer run go down.

From what I saw of Brown, they use him more in draws, and out of passing formations. In the second half, they used Trent in these more as well, and the longer runs he did have (and when I say longer, I mean >5 yards) came in the second half. If Donald Brown were put in the 18 plays I took notes on and charted, he would not have done any better than Richardson IMO.

Richardson was also used to grind out the last few minutes, which meant going back into running formations, and SEA playing close to the line. Kam Chancellor was basically lined up as a linebacker at the end of the game, and he made several tackles on Richardson.

I'm not a defender of him, I saw nothing to convince me that he's special or great, or even very good. But if you want to convince yourself that he could be good, and many do want that, there are reasons you can use for cover.

I think some of those reasons are legitimate, but I don't think that necessarily excuses his poor production. They get magnified to make someone's case.

TLR version is this -> To me, Richardon looks like a "get what is in front of him" type player. He's going to need good blocking, and honest defense (meaning not an extra defender in the box), and volume to be a big fantasy player. As it looks right now, he's not going to get any of those three things due to a combination of the line play, the formations/situations he's used in, and the frequency of his use. I don't think he got a carry on consecutive plays until the last few minutes of that game.

 

[werdnoynek]

That's a lot of pros/cons, but the overall feeling I get from Richardson is that there are a lot of reasons why he's not being put in a good position to succeed...yet despite that, he's not impressive anyway. He's not someone I want to go out and buy. I think it's very possible that he's a mediocre player.

Not being put in a position to succeed in Cleveland too? How come every RB had a better YPC in the 1.3 years he was there? How come all of the Indy backs have a better YPC?

Right now Chris Ogbonnaya has the best YPC (5.6) in the NFL of all backs who have received half of their teams snaps.

Does that make him better than all of the other backs in the league? Mccoy? Peterson? Bush? Rhetorical questions are fun.

ETA: Why does Gerhart have a better YPC than Peterson? Why does Hillman have a better YPC than Moreno? Khiry Robinson vs Sproles? Polk vs McCoy? Felix Jones vs Bell? James vs Gore? Turbin vs Lynch? Greene vs CJ2K?

YPC doesn't really tell us much when it comes to running backs, it get's tossed around way too much when trying to compare players but situations are different... even when it's two backs on the same team. It rarely gives us a full picture of what's really happening.

 

[voiceofunreason]

EDIT: Article is kind of meh without the photos, I suggest you just go read this....

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/10/23/analysis-notebook-bonus-edition/

Awesome! Where's the Mark Ingram version?!

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

According to cbs Roster Trends, Trent is the most traded player in FF.

 

[Sweetness_34]

What I cannot understand is how he cannot even get TDs? he is playing with a much better QB on a much better O. Last year he scored, what, close to 10 TDs right? How does he not be the goal line back? Hopefully with Wayne out, in the red zone, the Colts will have to run this guy.

 

[EBF]

What I cannot understand is how he cannot even get TDs? he is playing with a much better QB on a much better O. Last year he scored, what, close to 10 TDs right? How does he not be the goal line back? Hopefully with Wayne out, in the red zone, the Colts will have to run this guy.

People think because the Colts have Luck they're this great offense. They're really not. Their RBs only rushed for 6 TDs last season.

This is a team in transition. Not some kind of an established juggernaut. The reason they got Luck in the first place is because they sucked so bad.

Anyway, their backs have rushed for 4 TDs since they traded for Trent and he accounts for 2 of those with Brown and Bradshaw each vulturing one apiece. I'm not sure you can really read much into that.

 

[Papa John's]

Pep Hamilton is a problem at OC. If you have any doubts, just ask an Indy fan or look at the offensive stats when he was a QB coach in Chicago.

As for TRich, I think he is running tentatively b/c he is just not familiar with the Offense. Without OTA's, Training Camp, etc. that 1/2 second of hesitation means a lot in the NFL. I fear we won't know what he is in this offense until next year, which is definitely bad news in re-draft leagues, but provides some hope in dynast leagues.

 

[FreeBaGeL]

As for TRich, I think he is running tentatively b/c he is just not familiar with the Offense. Without OTA's, Training Camp, etc. that 1/2 second of hesitation means a lot in the NFL. I fear we won't know what he is in this offense until next year, which is definitely bad news in re-draft leagues, but provides some hope in dynast leagues.

If that's true then that's a major knock on Trent. He should have it by now. At this point Bradshaw had less time practicing with the Colts before he started playing than Richardson has, and Bradshaw looked fine. Benson was in Green Bay for 3 weeks last year before he started for them.

He's had his time.

 

[Casting Couch]

It's looking like the Browns stole a 1st round pick from Indy.

 

[Papa John's]

As for TRich, I think he is running tentatively b/c he is just not familiar with the Offense. Without OTA's, Training Camp, etc. that 1/2 second of hesitation means a lot in the NFL. I fear we won't know what he is in this offense until next year, which is definitely bad news in re-draft leagues, but provides some hope in dynast leagues.

If that's true then that's a major knock on Trent. He should have it by now. At this point Bradshaw had less time practicing with the Colts before he started playing than Richardson has, and Bradshaw looked fine. Benson was in Green Bay for 3 weeks last year before he started for them.

He's had his time.

I guess ... But Bradshaw also is a long in the tooth veteran who had the playbook the whole offseason. So, I think that is a bit different.

Also, just in general, teammates and new schemes are works in progress when they first come together. Some guys need more time to gel with schemes and/or teammates than others.

Finally, defenses play Trent dramatically different and they stack the line much more than defenses Bradshaw faced. This is because of how Trent runs, and his present limitations: (1) defenses know his overall knowledge of the scheme is limited and so is the universal of plays they will run with him (presently) and (2) his use has been very limited (they are not throwing to him).

I still think there is more to see here than just "he should have gotten it, because he has been there 3-weeks", but only time will tell.

 

[PatsWillWin]

As for TRich, I think he is running tentatively b/c he is just not familiar with the Offense. Without OTA's, Training Camp, etc. that 1/2 second of hesitation means a lot in the NFL. I fear we won't know what he is in this offense until next year, which is definitely bad news in re-draft leagues, but provides some hope in dynast leagues.

If that's true then that's a major knock on Trent. He should have it by now. At this point Bradshaw had less time practicing with the Colts before he started playing than Richardson has, and Bradshaw looked fine. Benson was in Green Bay for 3 weeks last year before he started for them.

He's had his time.

I guess ... But Bradshaw also is a long in the tooth veteran who had the playbook the whole offseason. So, I think that is a bit different.

Also, just in general, teammates and new schemes are works in progress when they first come together. Some guys need more time to gel with schemes and/or teammates than others.

Finally, defenses play Trent dramatically different and they stack the line much more than defenses Bradshaw faced. This is because of how Trent runs, and his present limitations: (1) defenses know his overall knowledge of the scheme is limited and so is the universal of plays they will run with him (presently) and (2) his use has been very limited (they are not throwing to him).

I still think there is more to see here than just "he should have gotten it, because he has been there 3-weeks", but only time will tell.

Running plays are not complicated, nor do they vary much from team to team. A counter is a counter, a trap is a trap, etc. I could buy this for passing situations if he was screwing up blocking assignments or pass routes. I don't buy it for carrying the ball.

 

[McGarnicle]

As for TRich, I think he is running tentatively b/c he is just not familiar with the Offense. Without OTA's, Training Camp, etc. that 1/2 second of hesitation means a lot in the NFL. I fear we won't know what he is in this offense until next year, which is definitely bad news in re-draft leagues, but provides some hope in dynast leagues.

If that's true then that's a major knock on Trent. He should have it by now. At this point Bradshaw had less time practicing with the Colts before he started playing than Richardson has, and Bradshaw looked fine. Benson was in Green Bay for 3 weeks last year before he started for them.

He's had his time.

I guess ... But Bradshaw also is a long in the tooth veteran who had the playbook the whole offseason. So, I think that is a bit different.Also, just in general, teammates and new schemes are works in progress when they first come together. Some guys need more time to gel with schemes and/or teammates than others.

Finally, defenses play Trent dramatically different and they stack the line much more than defenses Bradshaw faced. This is because of how Trent runs, and his present limitations: (1) defenses know his overall knowledge of the scheme is limited and so is the universal of plays they will run with him (presently) and (2) his use has been very limited (they are not throwing to him).

I still think there is more to see here than just "he should have gotten it, because he has been there 3-weeks", but only time will tell.

Running plays are not complicated, nor do they vary much from team to team. A counter is a counter, a trap is a trap, etc. I could buy this for passing situations if he was screwing up blocking assignments or pass routes. I don't buy it for carrying the ball.

This is correct. It's often said that RB is the position that requires the least adjustment from college to the NFL. You can't coach speed, strength, instincts, elusiveness, etc. I would expect an adjustment period of maybe a game or two. Now it's looking like WYSIWYG. And it's very telling that in such an important game vs. Denver, we saw so much of Brown. They see what they have now.

Good thing they're winning, because there would be a major uproar about not having that first round pick next year.

 

[Papa John's]

As for TRich, I think he is running tentatively b/c he is just not familiar with the Offense. Without OTA's, Training Camp, etc. that 1/2 second of hesitation means a lot in the NFL. I fear we won't know what he is in this offense until next year, which is definitely bad news in re-draft leagues, but provides some hope in dynast leagues.

If that's true then that's a major knock on Trent. He should have it by now. At this point Bradshaw had less time practicing with the Colts before he started playing than Richardson has, and Bradshaw looked fine. Benson was in Green Bay for 3 weeks last year before he started for them.

He's had his time.

I guess ... But Bradshaw also is a long in the tooth veteran who had the playbook the whole offseason. So, I think that is a bit different.Also, just in general, teammates and new schemes are works in progress when they first come together. Some guys need more time to gel with schemes and/or teammates than others.

Finally, defenses play Trent dramatically different and they stack the line much more than defenses Bradshaw faced. This is because of how Trent runs, and his present limitations: (1) defenses know his overall knowledge of the scheme is limited and so is the universal of plays they will run with him (presently) and (2) his use has been very limited (they are not throwing to him).

I still think there is more to see here than just "he should have gotten it, because he has been there 3-weeks", but only time will tell.

Running plays are not complicated, nor do they vary much from team to team. A counter is a counter, a trap is a trap, etc. I could buy this for passing situations if he was screwing up blocking assignments or pass routes. I don't buy it for carrying the ball.

This is correct. It's often said that RB is the position that requires the least adjustment from college to the NFL. You can't coach speed, strength, instincts, elusiveness, etc.I would expect an adjustment period of maybe a game or two. Now it's looking like WYSIWYG. And it's very telling that in such an important game vs. Denver, we saw so much of Brown. They see what they have now.

Good thing they're winning, because there would be a major uproar about not having that first round pick next year.

The lone point you guys are addressing wasn't my only point. Just say'n.

 

[Concept Coop]

Did you read my post? It started with "I don't have time to do a whole lot of research right now." If you want to refute the point, please feel free to do so. Instead of just offering generic "he played against the best defenses in the nation," show us what NFL caliber defenders he played against, and how many of them were on the same team. Because that's the point; while the SEC may produce a lot of NFL defenders, unless there were several of them in the front 7 of those defenses, my point stands: Richardson's college numbers were not just based on his talent, but rather the talent on Alabama's offense and the lack of NFL talent on the defensive front 7's he faced.

Sorry, I should started my post with "I don't have time to do a whole lot of research right now" , too.

McGahee, Gore, and Portis all played for one of the most talented teams in college football history, and didn't face the consistent quality on the other side of the ball that Bama did, playing in the dominant SEC.

If we missed on Trent, it's because we missed on Trent. Not because he only looked good compared to his O-line.

Doug Martin didn't play behind the line that Trent did. But, on average, the talent gap between Boise State and their conference competition was wider than Bama and the rest of the SEC.

Good players usually go to good schools, which usually have a talent advantage on a weekly basis. Trent wasn't an anomaly, in that way.

 

[just_want_2_win]

This piece partially exoneratesTRich:

Colts recently acquired running back Trent Richardson has a meager 3.0 YPC since joining the team, but he had a statistical excuse for a poor showing on Sunday, according to the Terre Haute Tribune-Star via Pro Football Focus.

The site cited that Richardson only found a viable hole four times in 14 carries Sunday night against Denver. He rushed for just 37 yards in that game for a 2.6 average.

Richardson has been criticized for not attacking holes, but rather waiting, sometimes in vain, for them to develop. The result has been a disappointing first two years after being taken third overall in the 2012 draft by the Browns.

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/players/playerpage/1691430/trent-richardson

 

[MoveToSkypager]

This piece partially exoneratesTRich:

Colts recently acquired running back Trent Richardson has a meager 3.0 YPC since joining the team, but he had a statistical excuse for a poor showing on Sunday, according to the Terre Haute Tribune-Star via Pro Football Focus.

The site cited that Richardson only found a viable hole four times in 14 carries Sunday night against Denver. He rushed for just 37 yards in that game for a 2.6 average.

Richardson has been criticized for not attacking holes, but rather waiting, sometimes in vain, for them to develop. The result has been a disappointing first two years after being taken third overall in the 2012 draft by the Browns.

http://fantasynews.cbssports.com/fantasyfootball/players/playerpage/1691430/trent-richardson

You do know that you are using a secondary source in which the primary source is already cited in this thread, correct? What's next here?

 

[Wonderllama]

According to cbs Roster Trends, Trent is the most traded player in FF.

Just traded Trent for Shane Vereen. It's like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders!

 

[DoubleG]

According to cbs Roster Trends, Trent is the most traded player in FF.

Just traded Trent for Shane Vereen. It's like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders!

You went from a healthy guys who scores 6-8 points to an unhealthy one who scores 6-8 points.

 

[thatguythere]

According to cbs Roster Trends, Trent is the most traded player in FF.

Just traded Trent for Shane Vereen. It's like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders!

You went from a healthy guys who scores 6-8 points to an unhealthy one who scores 6-8 points.

Richardson weighs more....

 

[Routilla]

Trent sucks, end of thread.

 

[DirtyCashDylan]

F it, Im buying low. real low.

 

[Josh the FunkDOC]

Best "what's wrong with Richardson?" article I've seen yet: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/10/27/5034244/trent-richardson-trade-colts-offense

Very balanced in its conclusions but still not a great omen for Richardson...

 

[amnesiac]

finally traded him for next years 2.1 and 3.1 picks.

idp dynasty.

 

[duaneok66]

finally traded him for next years 2.1 and 3.1 picks.

idp dynasty.

well , at least you got something from him.

 

[Dizzy]

Gotta keep feeding him.

I'm not sure that the Colts staff have bought into their own "we're going to be a power running team" announcement. Saying it is one thing... sticking to it is quite another. Seriously, it takes a real commitment to run the football in the NFL. 3 & outs and zero daylight (especially early in the game) are going to happen.

Last night (GB vs MIN) it would have been easy for Green Bay to give up on the run early. It seemed like Lacy was getting stuffed a LOT (I think at one point he had 6 carries for 1 yard) and they've got this Aaron Rogers guy... But they kept feeding him the rock and he eventually he wore a hole in the defense. Richardson would never be allowed to accumulate 1 yard on 6 carries... 4 carries into it (tops) and he would already be splitting with Brown or they would abandon it for the most part. I don't think he had 4 carries in the 1st QTR last week... Lacy had 6 in the 1st series.

 

[amnesiac]

finally traded him for next years 2.1 and 3.1 picks.

idp dynasty.

well , at least you got something from him.

yeah, it's not great, but it seems his value's only going to keep going down.

 

[DoubleG]

Gotta keep feeding him.

I'm not sure that the Colts staff have bought into their own "we're going to be a power running team" announcement. Saying it is one thing... sticking to it is quite another. Seriously, it takes a real commitment to run the football in the NFL. 3 & outs and zero daylight (especially early in the game) are going to happen.

Last night (GB vs MIN) it would have been easy for Green Bay to give up on the run early. It seemed like Lacy was getting stuffed a LOT (I think at one point he had 6 carries for 1 yard) and they've got this Aaron Rogers guy... But they kept feeding him the rock and he eventually he wore a hole in the defense. Richardson would never be allowed to accumulate 1 yard on 6 carries... 4 carries into it (tops) and he would already be splitting with Brown or they would abandon it for the most part. I don't think he had 4 carries in the 1st QTR last week... Lacy had 6 in the 1st series.

I'll start by saying that I don't think this is the "cure" for Trent Richardson - or that if they would "just give him the ball more he'd be posting 100+ on the ground + 2 TDs" but there are quite a few teams that like to say they are balanced or favor a "power running attack"....but then run the ball 12-15 times. A true power running game is a game of attrition and patience. Your offensive line wears down the opponents D-line. Not in a series or even a quarter. You slam that ball down their throats 20+ times to soften them up. Those long runs don't come in the first or second quarter. They come late in the third, when the defense is warn out from the 300 pound fatties smashing in the mouth for 2 + hours.

That said, you also have to have the o-line to do it - and wants to - and OC that is secure enough in the concept to stick with it, and knows how to run it.

Again, this is not a cure of Richardson - I think there are other issues that are contributing to his poor play. But I do think more of a true commitment to the run would help in some fashion.

 

[duaneok66]

finally traded him for next years 2.1 and 3.1 picks.

idp dynasty.

well , at least you got something from him.

yeah, it's not great, but it seems his value's only going to keep going down.

good point.

 

[meyerj31]

finally traded him for next years 2.1 and 3.1 picks.

idp dynasty.

well , at least you got something from him.

yeah, it's not great, but it seems his value's only going to keep going down.

good point.

How can his value get lower than that? Lol.

If that's all you can get, you're better off holding through next season. No way I'd sell his potential for a couple low lottery tickets.

 

[EBF]

Best "what's wrong with Richardson?" article I've seen yet: http://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2013/10/27/5034244/trent-richardson-trade-colts-offense

Very balanced in its conclusions but still not a great omen for Richardson...

That writer played OL for Stanford a while back, so he knows what he's talking about in terms of run blocking.

 

[amnesiac]

finally traded him for next years 2.1 and 3.1 picks.

idp dynasty.

well , at least you got something from him.

yeah, it's not great, but it seems his value's only going to keep going down.

good point.

How can his value get lower than that? Lol.

If that's all you can get, you're better off holding through next season. No way I'd sell his potential for a couple low lottery tickets.

i understand. but you wouldn't take Luke Kuechly and Ryan Tannehill?