Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
I say this in all seriousness - does he have some sort of brain damage?
It looks like he has completely forgotten how to play football.
It looks like he has completely forgotten how to play football.
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The Trent Richardson Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter False Start
- Start date
KellysHeroes
Footballguy
False Start
Footballguy
I see such a lack of talent, burst and understanding of the game when he tries to run the ball that it is hard to understand.
Ned Ryerson
Footballguy
I watched this whole clip, and completely understand why the Colts traded for him (not for a 1st round pick perhaps). I think Andy said it best, when he asked if TR forgot how to play football. If you were to watch his game tape from last year and this year, there is no way you would think it is the same player.
shader
Footballguy
I totally agree. I watched every run at Alabama, and even some nice runs last year.
I don't even know who this guy is out there. It's very mystifying.
RUSF18
Footballguy
Go back through this thread...he's been using his horsecock to nail 3 broads at a time. Unless that's just a coping mechanism.
Hang 10
Footballguy
Todem
Footballguy
Obviously...painfully obvious something is not right upstairs this season.
I will go out on a limb and say a full off-season and camp with the Colts will turn him around. Too much physical talent to give up on after a massive sophmore slump.
Too much.
I will go out on a limb and say a full off-season and camp with the Colts will turn him around. Too much physical talent to give up on after a massive sophmore slump.
Too much.
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cstu
Footballguy
This is the same Mario Kart who claimed the LOST finale was great so obviously he's adept at fishing.
Andy Dufresne
Footballguy
Well the Lost finale WAS great. But MK is all sorts of wrong about TRich.
squistion
Footballguy
Many of us are now questioning the hype we bought that he had the talent to begin with.
Yitbos69
Footballguy
did you also question Ingrams talent? He seems be showing the talent we all thought he had we he was drafted.....If giving up on a 22 year old rb who we all saw as an uber talent is what many of you do...good luck with that....I like to look at all the factors and base my decision on that.....I was I buyer of Ingram last off season and I will be a buyer of Trent this off season
False Start
Footballguy
Ingram was not drafted 3rd overall and was not traded for a 1st the following year so stop the comparisons please. Ingram is not the focal point of an offense while Trent has been treated as such.
johnadams
Footballguy
No. Mid to late 2nd round are ww fodder. Usually, top picks, especially at RB, retain value for three years. Not necessarily 1.01, but late first would be where I see him. If Brown goes, he's the presumptive starter, which would put him as a mid first. If Brown stays, TRich probably has value equivalent to early 2nd round, though I'd still ship a late first for him. Ultimately, it will depend on the depth of RB in the draft. Looking at recent so called first round busts, after spots of early value, Moreno and Brown looked horrid, but developed quite a bit of value as they became veterans. Ingram is looking to do the same, so I'd be willing to ship a late first for TRich knowing that I may need to stash a year.
To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised to see that he's had some sort of nagging injury for the year that's gone undisclosed. The sort of injury that doesn't jeopardize his availability, but that nags at him nonetheless. I don't know for sure, but I think this is much more common than people report. I have to think with Luck at the helm, no D is stacking the box so even if Richardson's talent is as bad as many here claim, he should be able to carve a good season sans Brown.
Questioning the talent<>giving up on, but I'm not sure Ingram really helps your case. Congrats on buying him last offseason (I bought him as well actually), but he's not exactly a FF stud.
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Bobcat10
Footballguy
Kinda funny imo. Seems to me you are ignoring many the factors and focusing on crimson and white highlight reels and pre-draft expectations.
Listen, it certainly is possible the TRich amounts to something. He's not just going to fade away this offseason. He's a target in dynasties if the price is low. He just might not be that good in the NFL. The SEC =/ NFL no matter how people want to slice and dice it. We're all looking at the same player the past 2 seasons. So who really is ignoring what?
Yitbos69
Footballguy
I play in dynasty leagues so I am not that worried about 1 or two years...I see Ingrams talent so I bought him cheap....he has shown is when given the chance this season his talent is still there....I still see talent in Trent....so I am buying.... he is 22 ingram is only 24....I just think many of you can't stay the course
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
How low we talking here? Vick Ballard is the guy that's totally off of the radar (ie free, or pretty close to it) and might be the best RB on the roster as far as 1st and 2nd downs. Richardson's price is still pretty bloated from what I've seen. Either way, this looks like a multi-way RBBC moving forward, so I have a hard time seeing any of them really having a huge FF impact any time soon.
johnadams
Footballguy
With Brown's contract expiring at the end of this year, I think it's a great time to buy low on TRich. Even if Brown is resigned, he's not exactly been durable in his career and I suspect that IND will give TRich every opportunity to earn the job outright (though it won't get handed to him after this year). If Brown isn't resigned, TRich's value will increase considerably. I'm not worried about Ballard.
squistion
Footballguy
Agreed and Ingram is irrelevant to the point I was making anyway, which had to do with the perception of Richardson's talent. Don't really feel like making this thread of a discussion of other RBs hyped in the past who may or may not have lived up to expectations.
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
Disagree that Brown's presence (or lack thereof) has anything at all to do with Richardson's value. Brown isn't some superb talent who just can't be denied snaps -- he's just a guy. Richardson lost those touches because he was terrible this year. If he's terrible again in 2014, he'll be losing time to Ballard or whoever else happens to be there. It's about Richardson, not whoever else happens to be on the roster at RB in Indy.
Also disagree that Richardson is really a buy low. What prices are you seeing? Because he's still bringing RB1 value, or close to it, in any trade I've seen at this and a bunch of other sites. His owners aren't giving up on him even a little from what I've seen in decent leagues. He's not commanding 1.01 startup value anymore, so yeah, his value is down from where it was four months ago, but no one is moving him for truly cheap prices from what I'm seeing.
cstu
Footballguy
EBF
Footballguy
I would be interested in buying if the price was reasonable, but as you said it's still very high. I offered the 1.03 all-class devy pick for him (top names available are guys like Melvin Gordon, Mike Davis, and Alex Collins) and was rejected. The owner countered by offering Richardson for Marqise Lee and the 1.03 rookie pick (Evans, Hyde, Ebron, etc). That was far too steep of a price for me. I'll have to think about it more, but I would probably be willing to offer the equivalent of something like a 4th-5th round pick in a 12 team startup draft. I can't see myself going much higher than that for him right now. I'll probably end up valuing him about a round higher than his offseason ADP, whatever that ends up being.
cstu
Footballguy
johnadams
Footballguy
Brown played like much more than "just a guy" this year. Granted, Richardson looked pretty awful, but Brown earned his looks this year by being very strong when given opportunities. What they do with Brown sends a pretty big signal to us on how they feel about TRIch. Resigning signals a likely RBBC at best for TRich. Letting him walk means that TRich enters the OTA at the top of the depth chart. That's a pretty big difference on a guy and should adjust his value. I'm saying that if you can get him for a late rookie first, that's good value right now. I'm not inclined to give up a top five rookie pick until I see how the NFL draft shakes out. But, depending on my needs, I'm willing to give up a mid first rookie pick though I'll also be trolling to see if I can ship a late first.
shader
Footballguy
The Ingram comparisons aren't fair, imo. While Ingram stunk his first few years, I truly believe that was a product of a horrible fit. He also clearly didn't understand that you have to make the most of your opportunities.
This year, Ingram was an after-thought. I think Ingram realized that he's only going to get 8-10 carries a game, and he made the most of every single carry. He ran with power, but most importantly he ran with heart on every play. So much so, that at times, his antics when he made a big play were a bit over the top. But that comes from him obviously being 100% dedicated to saving his career.
I didn't see a big difference in Ingram's running style from his Bama days to his New Orleans Saints days. Possibly he was a bit entitled, but in my opinion he just didn't have the right opportunities. Again, if anything changed, it was that he wanted it more.
Trent is completely different. He looks like he has no idea what to do. He's still hard to tackle, but his football IQ seems to have devolved tremendously. He looks completely unnatural out there, very unfocused and in my opinion looks out of shape too.
I have no idea what's happened to Trent or if it can be reversed.
This year, Ingram was an after-thought. I think Ingram realized that he's only going to get 8-10 carries a game, and he made the most of every single carry. He ran with power, but most importantly he ran with heart on every play. So much so, that at times, his antics when he made a big play were a bit over the top. But that comes from him obviously being 100% dedicated to saving his career.
I didn't see a big difference in Ingram's running style from his Bama days to his New Orleans Saints days. Possibly he was a bit entitled, but in my opinion he just didn't have the right opportunities. Again, if anything changed, it was that he wanted it more.
Trent is completely different. He looks like he has no idea what to do. He's still hard to tackle, but his football IQ seems to have devolved tremendously. He looks completely unnatural out there, very unfocused and in my opinion looks out of shape too.
I have no idea what's happened to Trent or if it can be reversed.
That was a funny response.
But the point is it's not like this is his rookie year. I know a lot of people get caught up on his low YPC last year but to me the talent was evident and obvious. What's more is what he seemed especially adept at is what really scores fantasy points as he has nose for the end zone and in PPR leagues flashed a lot as receiver.
If this was his rookie year or the only Trent we've seen in the NFL I'd have about no hope. I'd be thinking I just drafted Cedric Benson. But last year happened so I know he's got talent.
If you look at that highlight tape you see how much quicker, faster and explosive he looks? That was coming off a knee scope and playing with cracked ribs. He also said when he entered camp with the Browns this year he was around 8 pounds lighter.(that's what he said anyway, not sure if it's the Colts uni's but he sure looks bigger).
So I ask myself how can a young player who by all reports is healthier than last year and by his own accord lighter look so much slower and less explosive in every way? I really can only come up with one reasonable explanation and it's that when you know what you are supposed to do on the field you play faster. You don't waste time thinking, you just let your instincts take over and that's something else he's shown none of of this season. We hear it all the time from players who say things like I'm playing faster now that I know what I'm doing. We hear it often brought up in discussing slow defensive players who make up for it with anticipation, which is just another way of saying they know their assignment and where to be. This is the most plausible, if not only plausible explanation I can come up with as to why a healthier player can look so much worse. This of course assumes he's healthy.
Next fair thing to worry about with him is the realization that the RB position is not rocket science. Yes he was probably thrown into the mix to soon but we see street FA's adapt quicker than the time he's been given. So it's a fair concern but we've never heard, or at least I had not heard, of him having issues learning his assignments at Bama or Cleveland. I really think it has to do with the shocking way the trade went down and he's simply lost his confidence, in a funk, pressing. Whatever you want to call it.
My prediction with him is he works out these issues with a full off season and we'll see a whole different player next year. The negative news is it may take him some time to shed the residual effects of this crappy season. Meaning I don't see the Colts giving him anything in terms of a guaranteed role which means he'll have comp and no matter how well he plays next season that comp might deflate his value. Especially when considering what a lot of us saw as his value was ability to carry a heavy workload and not come off the field on third downs or goal line situations.
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So do I, and I also bought him, so the "can't stay the course" line doesn't apply to me. However, as I said, Ingram is irrelevant to this. Not only are the situations very different, but Ingram hasn't even paid off yet- he's still just a lottery ticket.
Yitbos69
Footballguy
Wrong....it is to the point. I just took another RB that people thought had lost his Talent...or that they were wrong about his talent....you may not like my point but it is relevant to your point....Ingram has clearly shown he still has his talent...people gave up on him....like you are giving up on Trent....I think its short sighted
Coeur de Lion
Footballguy
What kind of offer they make to Brown tells us how they feel about Brown. That's it. They traded for Richardson expecting to get a Pro Bowl level bellcow RB -- they spent a 1st on the dude. If he would have played to expectations, no one else would have seen the field. It doesn't matter what the depth chart looks like heading into OTAs. At all. If Richardson plays well, he'll be given the load, regardless of Brown, Ballard, Bradshaw, etc, given the level of investment the team made in him. If he plays like he did in 2013, he'll be behind pretty much anyone else on the roster, Bradshaw, Brown, Ballard, or insert new guy here. This year Richardson lost a job he was brought in to hold due to his ineffectiveness. Brown didn't take anything; he's a backup level player, despite what he did this year. The contract he gets this offseason should convince everyone of that if somehow his first four years in the league didn't.
squistion
Footballguy
Yitbos69
Footballguy
went 13/83 against the Panthers and 14/145/1 against the cowbys....you can disregard all the games he did well in if you like but he is showing he still has talent...he averaged 5 yards a carry this year....but dismiss that too if you like
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squistion
Footballguy
I suggest you start a separate thread about Ingram where you can sing his praises there and debate how good he is versus other players, while leaving the discussion for Richardson in the Richardson thread.
Yitbos69
Footballguy
I was just responding to you....don't post it if you don't want me to respond.....My point was that people gave up on Ingrams Talent and he has shown this year that he still has it...I think Trent will do the same
squistion
Footballguy
You were the one who brought up Ingram, not me. Don't go off topic and then be disingenuously offended because someone points out your digression.
Yitbos69
Footballguy
I pointed out I was responding to the " you posted......when I brought up Ingram it was in relation to Trent and Talent I did not digress....TIA HTH FYF
squistion
Footballguy
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squistion
Footballguy
I own him in two leagues and can't seem to give him away. I had him in my trade bait for a couple months in one league and the best offer I got was a 2014 2nd. It might be the leagues I play in, but there has been little interest in giving what would be equivalent of a 4th/5th round startup draft pick (or anything that would be close to salvaging something of the investment I have made him in).
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Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Perhaps the ball has been the problem all along.
MoveToSkypager
Footballguy
JohnnyU
Footballguy
One can't possibly expect the same value for Richardson as it once was, or anywhere close to it. That's the problem with his owners, they aren't willing to take significantly less for Richardson, which matches his current market value. Therefore, he is a hold in most dynasty leagues and if he proves again he's garbage, then he will be cast off to the waiver wire and his owners will just have to chalk it up as lesson learned.squistion said:
squistion
Footballguy
Where did I say that was expecting that? I didn't even get a offer of a 2014 1st or what would be equivalent to 4th/5th round startup pick (either of which would be recouping some of what I invested in him).
Sorry, I would rather hold him than give him up or 2014 2nd or # 5 or # 6WR even if that is the current market value in my league.
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Raider Nation
Devil's Advocate
T-Rich with a workmanlike 3 carries for 1 yard today.
