The Trent Richardson Thread (3 Viewers)

[Zdravko]

Meh, so much emotions and vested interests in this thread.

FWIW, Joseph Addai wasn't good either, but somehow between GL TDs, receptions and running against cover-deep defenses, he was a perennial, durable FF producer.

Yeah, Trent seems doomed to me as a non-stud right now, but I don't think we can dismiss the possibility he is at the right place, right time to end up as a mid-RB2 in PPR even if he never shines on the field.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Meh, so much emotions and vested interests in this thread.

FWIW, Joseph Addai wasn't good either, but somehow between GL TDs, receptions and running against cover-deep defenses, he was a perennial, durable FF producer.

Yeah, Trent seems doomed to me as a non-stud right now, but I don't think we can dismiss the possibility he is at the right place, right time to end up as a mid-RB2 in PPR even if he never shines on the field.

There's a world of difference between Addai's "meh" level 4.1 YPC running and Richardson's utter incompetence. Mediocre runners like Addai and Moreno can hold off the competition by excelling as blockers and receivers. Richardson, unfortunately, has a steep uphill climb in front of him to even achieve mediocrity as a runner.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Meh, so much emotions and vested interests in this thread.

FWIW, Joseph Addai wasn't good either, but somehow between GL TDs, receptions and running against cover-deep defenses, he was a perennial, durable FF producer.

Yeah, Trent seems doomed to me as a non-stud right now, but I don't think we can dismiss the possibility he is at the right place, right time to end up as a mid-RB2 in PPR even if he never shines on the field.

right place, right time, wrong guy.

as you'll see when bradshaw gets back in there.

 

[Jrodicus]

So he's even worse than Lawrence Philips?

Yup.

And LenDale white is better than Reggie Bush...

And Cadillac Williams is better than Matt Forte...

That's really not what I'm trying to say with the information. Richardson has been historically bad and no one within 0.4 YPC of him has had a long, successful career. My point all along is that he needs to massively improve to stay in the league. So far it doesn't look like he has done that.

I know...but that's what some people taking away from it.

Personally, I think it's better to look at the seasons seperately, but I digress.

 

[Dutch Kincade]

He turned 23 years old 900 hours ago.

</perspective>

 

[cloppbeast]

but I digress.

This is not what we do on the Trent Richardson thread.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

I'm neither a Richardson apologist or hater. I just want to know, is there any RB who averaged sub 4 YPC in his first two seasons who then went on to be success? Maybe this has been covered already.

Edit: Meant two seasons.

I posted it several times in this thread, mostly to mocking responses.

RB's with over 400 carries their first two years, sorted by YPC:

NAME POS YRs G RSH RSHYD YD/RSH RSHTD REC RECYD YD/REC RECTD FANT PT1 Eddie George rb 1996--1997 32 692 2767 4.00 14 30 226 7.53 1 389.32 Marcel Shipp rb 2002--2003 31 416 1664 4.00 6 68 597 8.78 3 280.13 Julius Jones rb 2004--2005 21 454 1812 3.99 12 52 327 6.29 0 285.94 Antowain Smith rb 1997--1998 32 494 1964 3.98 16 33 188 5.70 0 311.25 Natrone Means rb 1993--1994 32 503 1995 3.97 20 49 294 6.00 0 348.96 Marshall Faulk rb 1994--1995 32 603 2360 3.91 22 108 997 9.23 4 491.77 Willis McGahee rb 2004--2005 32 609 2375 3.90 18 50 347 6.94 0 380.28 Anthony Thomas rb 2001--2002 26 492 1904 3.87 13 46 341 7.41 0 302.59 Curtis Martin rb 1995--1996 32 684 2639 3.86 28 76 594 7.82 4 515.310 Cad. Williams rb 2005--2006 28 515 1976 3.84 7 50 277 5.54 0 267.311 Kevin Smith rb 2008--2009 29 455 1723 3.79 12 79 695 8.80 1 319.812 Matt Forte rb 2008--2009 32 574 2167 3.78 12 120 948 7.90 4 407.513 Ricky Williams rb 1999--2000 22 501 1884 3.76 10 72 581 8.07 1 312.514 Ron Johnson rb 1969--1970 28 401 1499 3.74 15 72 651 9.04 4 329.015 Johnny Johnson rb 1990--1991 29 430 1592 3.70 9 54 466 8.63 2 271.816 John Stephens rb 1988--1989 30 541 2001 3.70 11 35 305 8.71 0 296.617 Johnny Roland rb 1966--1967 27 426 1571 3.69 15 41 482 11.76 1 301.318 Ronald Moore rb 1993--1994 32 495 1798 3.63 13 11 68 6.18 1 270.619 Errict Rhett rb 1994--1995 32 616 2218 3.60 18 36 229 6.36 0 352.720 Ron Dayne rb 2000--2001 32 408 1460 3.58 12 11 78 7.09 0 225.821 Rashaan Salaam rb 1995--1996 28 439 1570 3.58 13 14 100 7.14 1 251.022 Sammie Smith rb 1989--1990 29 426 1490 3.50 14 18 215 11.94 1 260.523 K. Abdul-Jabbar rb 1996--1997 32 590 2008 3.40 26 52 400 7.69 1 402.824 Curtis Enis rb 1998--1999 24 420 1413 3.36 3 51 360 7.06 2 207.325 T. Richardson rb 2012--2013 33 459 1514 3.30 14 86 683 7.94 2 315.7

Can you run the same query using 300 carries instead of 400? Just curious...

Nevermind, I found the FBG tool for that:

NAME POS YRs G RSH RSHYD YD/RSH RSHTD FANT PT

1 Eddie George rb 1996--1997 32 692 2767 4.00 14 389.3

2 Marcel Shipp rb 2002--2003 31 416 1664 4.00 6 280.1

3 Tony Galbreath rb 1976--1977 28 304 1214 3.99 10 255.9

4 Julius Jones rb 2004--2005 21 454 1812 3.99 12 285.9

5 Antowain Smith rb 1997--1998 32 494 1964 3.98 16 311.2

6 Earnest Jackson rb 1983--1984 28 307 1218 3.97 8 202.2

7 Natrone Means rb 1993--1994 32 503 1995 3.97 20 348.9

8 Fred Lane rb 1997--1998 27 387 1526 3.94 12 235.8

9 O.J. Simpson rb 1969--1970 21 301 1185 3.94 7 226.7

10 T.J. Duckett rb 2002--2003 28 327 1286 3.93 15 234.1

11 Marshall Faulk rb 1994--1995 32 603 2360 3.91 22 491.7

12 Tim Worley rb 1989--1990 26 304 1188 3.91 5 167.1

13 Willis McGahee rb 2004--2005 32 609 2375 3.90 18 380.2

14 Herman Heard rb 1984--1985 32 329 1279 3.89 8 235.9

15 Joe Washington rb 1977--1978 29 302 1173 3.88 0 185.4

16 Mario Bates rb 1994--1995 27 395 1530 3.87 13 248.6

17 Anthony Thomas rb 2001--2002 26 492 1904 3.87 13 302.5

18 Curtis Martin rb 1995--1996 32 684 2639 3.86 28 515.3

19 Vic Washington rb 1971--1972 27 332 1279 3.85 6 264.9

20 Cadillac Williams rb 2005--2006 28 515 1976 3.84 7 267.3

21 Boyce Green rb 1983--1984 29 306 1170 3.82 3 176.1

22 James Stewart rb 1995--1996 27 327 1248 3.82 10 239.5

23 Terdell Middleton rb 1977--1978 30 319 1213 3.80 11 229.2

24 Paul Robinson rb 1968--1969 28 398 1512 3.80 12 252.4

25 Garrison Hearst rb 1993--1995 31 397 1503 3.79 3 205.3

26 Kevin Smith rb 2008--2009 29 455 1723 3.79 12 319.8

27 Matt Forte rb 2008--2009 32 574 2167 3.78 12 407.5

28 William Green rb 2002--2003 23 385 1446 3.76 7 202.9

29 Ricky Williams rb 1999--2000 22 501 1884 3.76 10 312.5

30 Andra Franklin rb 1981--1982 25 378 1412 3.74 14 232.7

31 Ron Johnson rb 1969--1970 28 401 1499 3.74 15 329.0

32 Woody Green rb 1974--1975 22 302 1120 3.71 8 218.2

33 Johnny Johnson rb 1990--1991 29 430 1592 3.70 9 271.8

34 John Stephens rb 1988--1989 30 541 2001 3.70 11 296.6

35 LenDale White rb 2006--2007 29 365 1352 3.70 7 194.6

36 Johnny Roland rb 1966--1967 27 426 1571 3.69 15 301.3

37 Boobie Clark rb 1973--1974 22 353 1300 3.68 13 268.1

38 Reggie Bush rb 2006--2007 28 312 1146 3.67 10 313.5

39 Derek Brown rb 1993--1994 29 326 1194 3.66 5 221.2

40 Rodney Thomas rb 1995--1996 32 300 1098 3.66 6 191.0

41 Ronald Moore rb 1993--1994 32 495 1798 3.63 13 270.6

42 Butch Woolfolk rb 1982--1983 25 358 1296 3.62 6 236.8

43 Errict Rhett rb 1994--1995 32 616 2218 3.60 18 352.7

44 Ron Dayne rb 2000--2001 32 408 1460 3.58 12 225.8

45 Rashaan Salaam rb 1995--1996 28 439 1570 3.58 13 251.0

46 Alvin Maxson rb 1974--1975 27 304 1085 3.57 5 195.3

47 Reggie Cobb rb 1990--1991 32 347 1232 3.55 9 218.2

48 Darick Holmes rb 1995--1996 32 361 1269 3.52 8 212.5

49 Sammie Smith rb 1989--1990 29 426 1490 3.50 14 260.5

50 Jerry Eckwood rb 1979--1980 31 343 1194 3.48 4 223.7

51 Jim Kiick rb 1968--1969 28 345 1196 3.47 13 290.1

52 Leonard Russell rb 1991--1992 27 389 1349 3.47 6 181.4

53 Karim Abdul-Jabbar rb 1996--1997 32 590 2008 3.40 26 402.8

54 Mike Rozier rb 1985--1986 27 332 1124 3.39 12 212.7

55 Curtis Enis rb 1998--1999 24 420 1413 3.36 3 207.3

56 Charley Taylor wr 1964--1965 27 344 1157 3.36 8 350.8

57 Ricky Bell rb 1977--1978 23 333 1115 3.35 7 174.5

58 Lawrence Phillips rb 1996--1997 27 394 1309 3.32 12 215.6

59 Trent Richardson rb 2012--2013 33 459 1514 3.30 14 315.7

60 Altie Taylor rb 1969--1970 24 316 1014 3.21 2 160.1

Hellllloooo Lawrence Phillips.

If only there was a thread from 1996-97 to link to, I bet it would have looked a lot like this one. I realize Phillips also had personal issues, but he also got traded middle of his second season, just like Trent.

ETA - btw Ricky Bell is an interesting answer to the original question:

is there any RB who averaged sub 4 YPC in his first two seasons who then went on to be success

He had a terrific season his third year when the Bucs miraculously broke out from being one of the worst teams of all time to reach the NFCC. Distinction from TR there is the Bucs in Bell's first two years were just beyond awful, so he looked like a guy that was being limited by the teams he was on. TR was on a very good team last year of course.

 

[cstu]

And that was Bell's only good year.

 

[cstu]

So he's even worse than Lawrence Philips?

Yup.

And LenDale white is better than Reggie Bush...

And Cadillac Williams is better than Matt Forte...

That's really not what I'm trying to say with the information. Richardson has been historically bad and no one within 0.4 YPC of him has had a long, successful career. My point all along is that he needs to massively improve to stay in the league. So far it doesn't look like he has done that.

I know...but that's what some people taking away from it.

Personally, I think it's better to look at the seasons seperately, but I digress.

I understand that point of view but I wasn't happy with his running his rookie year and hoped he'd improve not get much worse. He's still young, I'm only commenting on what I'm seeing not what is possible for him in the future. Age is the number one thing he has going for him IMO.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

And that was Bell's only good year.

Well in his defense IIRC he had a really bad knee injury the next year, I believe, the stats tell a return to form, but then again so did the Bucs, who went 5-10-1.

 

[Jail]

Meh, so much emotions and vested interests in this thread.

FWIW, Joseph Addai wasn't good either, but somehow between GL TDs, receptions and running against cover-deep defenses, he was a perennial, durable FF producer.

Yeah, Trent seems doomed to me as a non-stud right now, but I don't think we can dismiss the possibility he is at the right place, right time to end up as a mid-RB2 in PPR even if he never shines on the field.

right place, right time, wrong guy.

as you'll see when bradshaw gets back in there.

Realistically, how long could we expect Bradshaw to last though? He already had trouble staying healthy because of his bad feet. Now, he has a cervical fusion in his history. I guess if he goes 14th-16th the risk is small enough, but if it is the 11th I don't know if its worth it.

After watching that OLine play I think the best thing to do is to just stay away from all Indy Rbs.

 

[jdoggydogg]

I really don't know what to make out of Richardson this year.

Last season, I was one of those guys calling Cleveland idiots for letting Trent go. But I watched every single Colts game last year, and Donald Brown looked better behind that offensive line. Yes, Trent didn't know the offense. But he looked indecisive and slow to the hole. For a big guy, Trent doesn't really run angry.

I feel like I'd gamble on Trent in an auction draft if the price wasn't too high, but I can't see pulling the trigger in a snake draft given his ADP.

 

[GreenNGold]

Bradshaw is the IND RB to own. Draft accordingly.

 

[JFS171]

Was just offered the much maligned Stevan Ridley for Mr. Richardson... that one is tempting, even with BB's propensity to bench.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Was just offered the much maligned Stevan Ridley for Mr. Richardson... that one is tempting, even with BB's propensity to bench.

Take that deal, immediately.

 

[Reegus]

Terrible trade. Ridley will fumble his job away like usual.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Bradshaw is the IND RB to own. Draft accordingly.

omfg plz stop liking my guy

 

[Zdravko]

Meh, so much emotions and vested interests in this thread.

FWIW, Joseph Addai wasn't good either, but somehow between GL TDs, receptions and running against cover-deep defenses, he was a perennial, durable FF producer.

Yeah, Trent seems doomed to me as a non-stud right now, but I don't think we can dismiss the possibility he is at the right place, right time to end up as a mid-RB2 in PPR even if he never shines on the field.

There's a world of difference between Addai's "meh" level 4.1 YPC running and Richardson's utter incompetence. Mediocre runners like Addai and Moreno can hold off the competition by excelling as blockers and receivers. Richardson, unfortunately, has a steep uphill climb in front of him to even achieve mediocrity as a runner.

Again, I think there is a healthy, overdramatic bias here. Addai tumbled into Manning's prime, but half his seasons were still 3.5, 3.7, 3.8 ypc. Don't see Addai or Moreno are much superior runners to Richardson and I've never heard of him having pass-blocking or receiving issues. The only thing these two guys might have is a better head, but way too early to judge all that.

Owners should just calm down and stop using "Top-5-dynasty-RB" as the benchmark here, regardless of that they paid. Set your expectations at something like multiple years of top-15/top-20 RB production in PPR and the world is not so gloomy.

 

[tone1oc]

Meh, so much emotions and vested interests in this thread.

FWIW, Joseph Addai wasn't good either, but somehow between GL TDs, receptions and running against cover-deep defenses, he was a perennial, durable FF producer.

Yeah, Trent seems doomed to me as a non-stud right now, but I don't think we can dismiss the possibility he is at the right place, right time to end up as a mid-RB2 in PPR even if he never shines on the field.

There's a world of difference between Addai's "meh" level 4.1 YPC running and Richardson's utter incompetence. Mediocre runners like Addai and Moreno can hold off the competition by excelling as blockers and receivers. Richardson, unfortunately, has a steep uphill climb in front of him to even achieve mediocrity as a runner.

Again, I think there is a healthy, overdramatic bias here. Addai tumbled into Manning's prime, but half his seasons were still 3.5, 3.7, 3.8 ypc. Don't see Addai or Moreno are much superior runners to Richardson and I've never heard of him having pass-blocking or receiving issues. The only thing these two guys might have is a better head, but way too early to judge all that.

Owners should just calm down and stop using "Top-5-dynasty-RB" as the benchmark here, regardless of that they paid. Set your expectations at something like multiple years of top-15/top-20 RB production in PPR and the world is not so gloomy.

Only problem is that is not reality.

 

[georg013]

I think I'm going to run with Green and Gold and join in on the fun. Bradshaw is the back to own! End of story!

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Meh, so much emotions and vested interests in this thread.

FWIW, Joseph Addai wasn't good either, but somehow between GL TDs, receptions and running against cover-deep defenses, he was a perennial, durable FF producer.

Yeah, Trent seems doomed to me as a non-stud right now, but I don't think we can dismiss the possibility he is at the right place, right time to end up as a mid-RB2 in PPR even if he never shines on the field.

There's a world of difference between Addai's "meh" level 4.1 YPC running and Richardson's utter incompetence. Mediocre runners like Addai and Moreno can hold off the competition by excelling as blockers and receivers. Richardson, unfortunately, has a steep uphill climb in front of him to even achieve mediocrity as a runner.

Again, I think there is a healthy, overdramatic bias here. Addai tumbled into Manning's prime, but half his seasons were still 3.5, 3.7, 3.8 ypc. Don't see Addai or Moreno are much superior runners to Richardson and I've never heard of him having pass-blocking or receiving issues. The only thing these two guys might have is a better head, but way too early to judge all that.

Owners should just calm down and stop using "Top-5-dynasty-RB" as the benchmark here, regardless of that they paid. Set your expectations at something like multiple years of top-15/top-20 RB production in PPR and the world is not so gloomy.

There's nothing whatsoever over-dramatic or biased about my statement. He was objectively worse than every other RB in the NFL last year outside of ancient street FA Willis McGahee. And relative to the performance of the other RBs on his team, he was the worst runner in the entire NFL that received any type of volume. His draft position is probably the only reason he's even on a roster right now -- if a random mid round RB played like that, he'd be out of the NFL. Richardson was THAT bad.

 

[Jrodicus]

There's nothing whatsoever over-dramatic or biased about my statement. He was objectively worse than every other RB in the NFL last year outside of ancient street FA Willis McGahee. And relative to the performance of the other RBs on his team, he was the worst runner in the entire NFL that received any type of volume. His draft position is probably the only reason he's even on a roster right now -- if a random mid round RB played like that, he'd be out of the NFL. Richardson was THAT bad.

How about Bernard Pierce (lower YPC)?

 

[EBF]

I was able to catch the replay of the Giants/Colts game today. Knowing beforehand that his stat line was ugly, I was surprised to see that Trent actually looked pretty good. Better than the first preseason game. He had two pretty nice runs and only one play I can remember where he might have left some yards on the field. The Colts still appear to be terribad at run blocking and more often than not the design isn't executed, but I didn't come away from the game thinking Trent stunk up the joint. He looked fine.

 

[pizzatyme]

I'm loading up on Bradshaw and in deep leagues I'm also grabbing Herron. Herron has looked great thus far in camp! This comes from a Colts fan for what it's worth

 

[cstu]

I was able to catch the replay of the Giants/Colts game today. Knowing beforehand that his stat line was ugly, I was surprised to see that Trent actually looked pretty good. Better than the first preseason game. He had two pretty nice runs and only one play I can remember where he might have left some yards on the field. The Colts still appear to be terribad at run blocking and more often than not the design isn't executed, but I didn't come away from the game thinking Trent stunk up the joint. He looked fine.

The 8 yard run and second 5 yard run were good plays, but I thought he was poor on the others. It's not just his run blocking, he's not reading his blocks properly.

 

[Reegus]

Everyone grabbing Bradshaw are going to be disappointed this year.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Everyone grabbing Bradshaw are going to be disappointed this year.

Bradshaw is going as RB55 at pick 15.11 (179th overall) -- no one is expecting much of anything. He's a late round flyer for people who want to fade Richardson. If he does literally anything, it's a positive return on a pick that late.

Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

FWIW, Joseph Addai wasn't good either,

Sure he was. He wasn't necessarily an elite talent but he was a first round pick and produced at the NFL level. He was solid, if unspectacular, at every aspect of the position.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I'm loading up on Bradshaw and in deep leagues I'm also grabbing Herron. Herron has looked great thus far in camp! This comes from a Colts fan for what it's worth

...a Colts fan who was very down on Bradshaw last offseason (especially in relation to Vick Ballard) so this says a lot to me.

I'm still in the camp as to holding out a sliver of hope on Trent, but that hope is fading fast. I tried buying low on him in dynasty leagues this offseason with no success and haven't had a re-draft yet. His current ADP tells me it's doubtful I will be drafting him though.

I did pick up Herron in a semi-deep dynasty league. He has looked decent so far despite the Colts poor run blocking and thought he could be a solid pro coming out of OSU.

 

[Jrodicus]

Everyone grabbing Bradshaw are going to be disappointed this year.

Bradshaw is going as RB55 at pick 15.11 (179th overall) -- no one is expecting much of anything. He's a late round flyer for people who want to fade Richardson. If he does literally anything, it's a positive return on a pick that late.

Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else.

If you want to talk relative price, how about looking at the other RBs that are close in ADP?

41. Mathews

42. Gerhart

46. Gore

52. Jennings

54. Richardson

55. Sankey

56. Vereen

58. C. Johnson

59. Tate

60. Rice

Are you going to tell us, with a straight face, that you would rather take a chance on Mathews, Gerhart and Gore in the 4th, and that you would take Jennings, Sankey, Vereen, C. Johnson, Tate, and Rice ahead of Richardson?

I can see taking some of those guys ahead of him, but all of them?

Who are all the guys you would take ahead of Richardson? Where do you rank him? At what point do you think the value is there that he's worth the risk? What do you project his stats will be for the season?

How about making an actual statement about where you see his value instead of merely criticizing everone else? Sheesh.

 

[stbugs]

Everyone grabbing Bradshaw are going to be disappointed this year.

Bradshaw is going as RB55 at pick 15.11 (179th overall) -- no one is expecting much of anything. He's a late round flyer for people who want to fade Richardson. If he does literally anything, it's a positive return on a pick that late.

Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else.

If you want to talk relative price, how about looking at the other RBs that are close in ADP?

41. Mathews

42. Gerhart

46. Gore

52. Jennings

54. Richardson

55. Sankey

56. Vereen

58. C. Johnson

59. Tate

60. Rice

Are you going to tell us, with a straight face, that you would rather take a chance on Mathews, Gerhart and Gore in the 4th, and that you would take Jennings, Sankey, Vereen, C. Johnson, Tate, and Rice ahead of Richardson?

I can see taking some of those guys ahead of him, but all of them?

Who are all the guys you would take ahead of Richardson? Where do you rank him? At what point do you think the value is there that he's worth the risk? What do you project his stats will be for the season?

How about making an actual statement about where you see his value instead of merely criticizing everone else? Sheesh.

I can honestly say I would take all of them ahead of Richardson. First of all, Matthews, Gore and Johnson finished top 20/top 10 last year and are still the starting RBs. Gore is fading now, but I still trust him to give me actual RB2 #s each week (his #s the last 3 years are very consistent). Vereen when healthy has a much higher ceiling (I'm in all PPR leagues). The others are all starting RBs and I believe have decent enough ceilings and floors. In fact, Jennings and Tate actually outperformed TRich last year in my PPR league even though both of them really weren't starters until week 7/8.

I would say after this tier, I would think about him. I owned Brown last year (due to big time RB2 injuries and going WR early in one league), so I saw TRich a bunch and what I saw was not good. He didn't impress me with Cleveland, just seemed volume and getting traded by Cleveland to me was a big time red flag.

Look at the comment from EBF above. He said he thought he ran well, yet he goes 9-21? I am not in dynasty leagues, so the Colts OL getting great (although they were great for everyone else last year) isn't going to happen this year. If he can only get 9-21 when Luck is playing well and they are leading 13-0 5 minutes in the 2nd quarter, then he is not worth the risk of the other guys who are also "starters" and appear to have more potential.

I could be wrong, but I do think that Luck takes over this year and TRich is going to be really risky to play every week. I can see some good games, but I think his stinkers last year are distinctly possible.

 

[msommer]

Everyone grabbing Bradshaw are going to be disappointed this year.

Bradshaw is going as RB55 at pick 15.11 (179th overall) -- no one is expecting much of anything. He's a late round flyer for people who want to fade Richardson. If he does literally anything, it's a positive return on a pick that late.

Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else.

If you want to talk relative price, how about looking at the other RBs that are close in ADP?

41. Mathews

42. Gerhart

46. Gore

52. Jennings

54. Richardson

55. Sankey

56. Vereen

58. C. Johnson

59. Tate

60. Rice

Are you going to tell us, with a straight face, that you would rather take a chance on Mathews, Gerhart and Gore in the 4th, and that you would take Jennings, Sankey, Vereen, C. Johnson, Tate, and Rice ahead of Richardson?

I can see taking some of those guys ahead of him, but all of them?

Who are all the guys you would take ahead of Richardson? Where do you rank him? At what point do you think the value is there that he's worth the risk? What do you project his stats will be for the season?

How about making an actual statement about where you see his value instead of merely criticizing everone else? Sheesh.

Is Frank Gore going off the board as the 46th RB.

An Trent Richardson as the 54th RB?

Or are those ADPs not relative RB rankings

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Everyone grabbing Bradshaw are going to be disappointed this year.

Bradshaw is going as RB55 at pick 15.11 (179th overall) -- no one is expecting much of anything. He's a late round flyer for people who want to fade Richardson. If he does literally anything, it's a positive return on a pick that late.

Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else.

If you want to talk relative price, how about looking at the other RBs that are close in ADP?

41. Mathews

42. Gerhart

46. Gore

52. Jennings

54. Richardson

55. Sankey

56. Vereen

58. C. Johnson

59. Tate

60. Rice

Are you going to tell us, with a straight face, that you would rather take a chance on Mathews, Gerhart and Gore in the 4th, and that you would take Jennings, Sankey, Vereen, C. Johnson, Tate, and Rice ahead of Richardson?

I can see taking some of those guys ahead of him, but all of them?

Who are all the guys you would take ahead of Richardson? Where do you rank him? At what point do you think the value is there that he's worth the risk? What do you project his stats will be for the season?

How about making an actual statement about where you see his value instead of merely criticizing everone else? Sheesh.

I can honestly say I would take all of them ahead of Richardson. First of all, Matthews, Gore and Johnson finished top 20/top 10 last year and are still the starting RBs. Gore is fading now, but I still trust him to give me actual RB2 #s each week (his #s the last 3 years are very consistent). Vereen when healthy has a much higher ceiling (I'm in all PPR leagues). The others are all starting RBs and I believe have decent enough ceilings and floors. In fact, Jennings and Tate actually outperformed TRich last year in my PPR league even though both of them really weren't starters until week 7/8.I would say after this tier, I would think about him. I owned Brown last year (due to big time RB2 injuries and going WR early in one league), so I saw TRich a bunch and what I saw was not good. He didn't impress me with Cleveland, just seemed volume and getting traded by Cleveland to me was a big time red flag.

Look at the comment from EBF above. He said he thought he ran well, yet he goes 9-21? I am not in dynasty leagues, so the Colts OL getting great (although they were great for everyone else last year) isn't going to happen this year. If he can only get 9-21 when Luck is playing well and they are leading 13-0 5 minutes in the 2nd quarter, then he is not worth the risk of the other guys who are also "starters" and appear to have more potential.

I could be wrong, but I do think that Luck takes over this year and TRich is going to be really risky to play every week. I can see some good games, but I think his stinkers last year are distinctly possible.

Absolutely. Every guy on that list, easily, and without even having to think about it really. And without looking at it, I'd imagine that there are more than that that I'd take over him also.

As far as a projection -- maybe 150 - 500, 30 - 250, 3 - 5 TDs. His passing down usage will depend on how long Bradshaw stays healthy. Most likely scenario at this point is Richardson being completely phased out and on the bench by the end of the year, regardless of who else is left standing in the backfield. He's just not good at running with the football, which is pretty important for an NFL RB. It's not a radical position to take, or hate, it's reality based on watching him the past two years. He can't play and is a total bust -- he fundamentally lacks NFL level burst and vision / decision making, and that can't be fixed.

 

[jmo87usc]

Quick recap for those who don't have time to read 67 pages of 5 recurring thoughts:

1. Trent Richardson has been terrible in terms of YPC and competence at his position his first 2 seasons and looks just as bad this preseason.

2. Trent Richardson and his apologists have made excuses for past performance i.e. Injury, changing teams during season, bad OL, bad OC.

3. Other RBs have played much better on this same team with the same excuses.

4. Trent Richardson's time to fix this is running out and Bradshaw/Herron/My Mom may outplay him this year.

5. Trent Richardson is the worst player ever and can never be good no matter what.

6. Trent Richardson may still be serviceable in fantasy football despite not being a good RB.

Given these facts/opinions/arguments, one can conclude:

*Richardson may not be as terrible as it seems, but probably is.

*Could still play in the NFL for years to come and contribute to fantasy.

*We won't know the answer until about week 4 or 5.

*Don't pay more for him now than you think he can be worth.

*Don't sell him for less now than you think he can be worth.

Some feel that the book can be closed now and that's fine. I still think this needs a little more time to play out until a true verdict can be reached. To each his own. Carry on with the repetitive debating.

.

 

[Skeletore Eh]

Everyone grabbing Bradshaw are going to be disappointed this year.

Bradshaw is going as RB55 at pick 15.11 (179th overall) -- no one is expecting much of anything. He's a late round flyer for people who want to fade Richardson. If he does literally anything, it's a positive return on a pick that late.

Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else.

If you want to talk relative price, how about looking at the other RBs that are close in ADP?

41. Mathews

42. Gerhart

46. Gore

52. Jennings

54. Richardson

55. Sankey

56. Vereen

58. C. Johnson

59. Tate

60. Rice

Are you going to tell us, with a straight face, that you would rather take a chance on Mathews, Gerhart and Gore in the 4th, and that you would take Jennings, Sankey, Vereen, C. Johnson, Tate, and Rice ahead of Richardson?

I can see taking some of those guys ahead of him, but all of them?

Who are all the guys you would take ahead of Richardson? Where do you rank him? At what point do you think the value is there that he's worth the risk? What do you project his stats will be for the season?

How about making an actual statement about where you see his value instead of merely criticizing everone else? Sheesh.

nothing bs about Lion's post. he responded to Reegus saying folks that invested a late round pick in Bradshaw will be disappointed, which they won't. if by some miracle Trent turns it around, you drop Bradshaw (who cost you nothing) and move on.

however if you draft trent in the 5th, and he continues playing like Trent Richardson, you cost yourself a 5th round pick

pretty simple

and the other rb's around the same adp as Trent really don't have anything to do with Lion's point

 

[VaTerp]

Everyone grabbing Bradshaw are going to be disappointed this year.

Bradshaw is going as RB55 at pick 15.11 (179th overall) -- no one is expecting much of anything. He's a late round flyer for people who want to fade Richardson. If he does literally anything, it's a positive return on a pick that late.

Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else.

If you want to talk relative price, how about looking at the other RBs that are close in ADP?

41. Mathews

42. Gerhart

46. Gore

52. Jennings

54. Richardson

55. Sankey

56. Vereen

58. C. Johnson

59. Tate

60. Rice

Are you going to tell us, with a straight face, that you would rather take a chance on Mathews, Gerhart and Gore in the 4th, and that you would take Jennings, Sankey, Vereen, C. Johnson, Tate, and Rice ahead of Richardson?

I can see taking some of those guys ahead of him, but all of them?

Who are all the guys you would take ahead of Richardson? Where do you rank him? At what point do you think the value is there that he's worth the risk? What do you project his stats will be for the season?

How about making an actual statement about where you see his value instead of merely criticizing everone else? Sheesh.

nothing bs about Lion's post. he responded to Reegus saying folks that invested a late round pick in Bradshaw will be disappointed, which they won't. if by some miracle Trent turns it around, you drop Bradshaw (who cost you nothing) and move on.

however if you draft trent in the 5th, and he continues playing like Trent Richardson, you cost yourself a 5th round pick

pretty simple

and the other rb's around the same adp as Trent really don't have anything to do with Lion's point

Agreed 100%.

But since the other RBs were brought up add me as another who "with a straight face" would take every single RB on that list above Richardson, with the possible exception of Sankey who I still need to look at more closely before forming my opinion.

 

[humpback]

I was able to catch the replay of the Giants/Colts game today. Knowing beforehand that his stat line was ugly, I was surprised to see that Trent actually looked pretty good. Better than the first preseason game. He had two pretty nice runs and only one play I can remember where he might have left some yards on the field. The Colts still appear to be terribad at run blocking and more often than not the design isn't executed, but I didn't come away from the game thinking Trent stunk up the joint. He looked fine.

I watched all of his carries tonight and came away with the same conclusion. I went in thinking, if he looks as bad as the stats, I will try to trade him. After watching each play, I am back to holding him with confidence in him getting mid rb2 numbers or better this year

Even if you want to blame the poor numbers in that game on anything besides Richardson himself, what makes you confident that you're going to get mid RB2 numbers or better this year? Do you think those other issues are going to be magically resolved?

 

[Jrodicus]

Everyone grabbing Bradshaw are going to be disappointed this year.

Bradshaw is going as RB55 at pick 15.11 (179th overall) -- no one is expecting much of anything. He's a late round flyer for people who want to fade Richardson. If he does literally anything, it's a positive return on a pick that late.

Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else.

If you want to talk relative price, how about looking at the other RBs that are close in ADP?

41. Mathews

42. Gerhart

46. Gore

52. Jennings

54. Richardson

55. Sankey

56. Vereen

58. C. Johnson

59. Tate

60. Rice

Are you going to tell us, with a straight face, that you would rather take a chance on Mathews, Gerhart and Gore in the 4th, and that you would take Jennings, Sankey, Vereen, C. Johnson, Tate, and Rice ahead of Richardson?

I can see taking some of those guys ahead of him, but all of them?

Who are all the guys you would take ahead of Richardson? Where do you rank him? At what point do you think the value is there that he's worth the risk? What do you project his stats will be for the season?

How about making an actual statement about where you see his value instead of merely criticizing everone else? Sheesh.

nothing bs about Lion's post. he responded to Reegus saying folks that invested a late round pick in Bradshaw will be disappointed, which they won't. if by some miracle Trent turns it around, you drop Bradshaw (who cost you nothing) and move on.

however if you draft trent in the 5th, and he continues playing like Trent Richardson, you cost yourself a 5th round pick

pretty simple

and the other rb's around the same adp as Trent really don't have anything to do with Lion's point

"Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else."

Every RB2 you take around Richardson in the 4th/5th round is potentially a massive disappointment. Ergo, it does have something to do with Lion's point. Pretty simple.

Mathews = injury history, fumbling problems, crowded backfield

Gerhart = first chance at being a lead back, bad team, unknown how he will perform

Gore = old, Hyde could take over

Jennings = bad offense, crowded backfield, and had a 2.80 YPC in 2012

Sankey = unknown

Vereen = injury history, crowded backfield

C. Johnson = is he even the RB1 in NY? Ivory vultures goal line TDs?

Tate = injury history, crowded backfield, bad offense

Rice = suspension, crowded backfield, historically bad team rushing last season

Any RB2 you take around Richardson is potentially a massive disappointment. You take him in the 5th because of the known the risk; it's not a massive disappointment taking him there because the risk is already known.

A "massive disappointment" is taking him in the 1st or 2nd last year and having him put up the numbers that he did.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Everyone grabbing Bradshaw are going to be disappointed this year.

Bradshaw is going as RB55 at pick 15.11 (179th overall) -- no one is expecting much of anything. He's a late round flyer for people who want to fade Richardson. If he does literally anything, it's a positive return on a pick that late.

Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else.

If you want to talk relative price, how about looking at the other RBs that are close in ADP?

41. Mathews

42. Gerhart

46. Gore

52. Jennings

54. Richardson

55. Sankey

56. Vereen

58. C. Johnson

59. Tate

60. Rice

Are you going to tell us, with a straight face, that you would rather take a chance on Mathews, Gerhart and Gore in the 4th, and that you would take Jennings, Sankey, Vereen, C. Johnson, Tate, and Rice ahead of Richardson?

I can see taking some of those guys ahead of him, but all of them?

Who are all the guys you would take ahead of Richardson? Where do you rank him? At what point do you think the value is there that he's worth the risk? What do you project his stats will be for the season?

How about making an actual statement about where you see his value instead of merely criticizing everone else? Sheesh.

there goes my straight face

now, I know you're just trolling

one of those dudes could tear an acl 4 weeks into the season and still outproduce richardson

I wouldn't take richardson in any round because the cost of a roster spot is substantially more than he's worth

 

[mr roboto]

Richardson is worth a pick because he's a starting RB who the team is committed to. Which gives him opportunity. I don't think he's very good, but he has value the same way Gerhart has value. A starter.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Mathews = injury history, fumbling problems, crowded backfield

Gerhart = first chance at being a lead back, bad team, unknown how he will perform

Gore = old, Hyde could take over

Jennings = bad offense, crowded backfield, and had a 2.80 YPC in 2012

Sankey = unknown

Vereen = injury history, crowded backfield

C. Johnson = is he even the RB1 in NY? Ivory vultures goal line TDs?

Tate = injury history, crowded backfield, bad offense

Rice = suspension, crowded backfield, historically bad team rushing last season

Richardson = absolutely ####### terrible

 

[Jrodicus]

now, I know you're just trolling

I'll defer to your expertise on that...

OH YEAH! so much lolzl!!!!111

 

[humpback]

Everyone grabbing Bradshaw are going to be disappointed this year.

Bradshaw is going as RB55 at pick 15.11 (179th overall) -- no one is expecting much of anything. He's a late round flyer for people who want to fade Richardson. If he does literally anything, it's a positive return on a pick that late.

Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else.

If you want to talk relative price, how about looking at the other RBs that are close in ADP?

41. Mathews

42. Gerhart

46. Gore

52. Jennings

54. Richardson

55. Sankey

56. Vereen

58. C. Johnson

59. Tate

60. Rice

Are you going to tell us, with a straight face, that you would rather take a chance on Mathews, Gerhart and Gore in the 4th, and that you would take Jennings, Sankey, Vereen, C. Johnson, Tate, and Rice ahead of Richardson?

I can see taking some of those guys ahead of him, but all of them?

Who are all the guys you would take ahead of Richardson? Where do you rank him? At what point do you think the value is there that he's worth the risk? What do you project his stats will be for the season?

How about making an actual statement about where you see his value instead of merely criticizing everone else? Sheesh.

nothing bs about Lion's post. he responded to Reegus saying folks that invested a late round pick in Bradshaw will be disappointed, which they won't. if by some miracle Trent turns it around, you drop Bradshaw (who cost you nothing) and move on.

however if you draft trent in the 5th, and he continues playing like Trent Richardson, you cost yourself a 5th round pick

pretty simple

and the other rb's around the same adp as Trent really don't have anything to do with Lion's point

"Richardson in the mid-5th as your RB2 is the potentially massive disappointment, just on relative price if nothing else."

Every RB2 you take around Richardson in the 4th/5th round is potentially a massive disappointment. Ergo, it does have something to do with Lion's point. Pretty simple.

Mathews = injury history, fumbling problems, crowded backfield

Gerhart = first chance at being a lead back, bad team, unknown how he will perform

Gore = old, Hyde could take over

Jennings = bad offense, crowded backfield, and had a 2.80 YPC in 2012

Sankey = unknown

Vereen = injury history, crowded backfield

C. Johnson = is he even the RB1 in NY? Ivory vultures goal line TDs?

Tate = injury history, crowded backfield, bad offense

Rice = suspension, crowded backfield, historically bad team rushing last season

Any RB2 you take around Richardson is potentially a massive disappointment. You take him in the 5th because of the known the risk; it's not a massive disappointment taking him there because the risk is already known.

A "massive disappointment" is taking him in the 1st or 2nd last year and having him put up the numbers that he did.

Uh, no. His point obviously was that a 15th round pick can't be much of a disappointment because your expectations/cost is low while a 5th rounder can because the expectations/cost are higher. Other 5th round pick RBs have nothing to do with that, of course they are also potential disappointments.

 

[False Start]

If for some unknown reason and against my better judgement take this guy, I will not hesitate to cut him for anyone if he does not produce in the first few weeks. Last year I held out hope he could do something, now if he doesnt in the first 2-3 weeks, we just know he sucks and is useless.

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

If for some unknown reason and against my better judgement take this guy, I will not hesitate to cut him for anyone if he does not produce in the first few weeks. Last year I held out hope he could do something, now if he doesnt in the first 2-3 weeks, we just know he sucks and is useless.

yeah, some of us might already know that

 

[Reegus]

Its so easy to identify the butt hurt people who were burned last year by Richardson. I'm going to with hold judgement until a real game has been played. I drafted him as my rb3 or 4 depending on how you rank s Jackson in a 12 team standard draft

 

[Kool-Aid Larry]

Its so easy to identify the butt hurt people who were burned last year by Richardson. I'm going to with hold judgement until a real game has been played. I drafted him as my rb3 or 4 depending on how you rank s Jackson in a 12 team standard draft

they actually played 16 of those last year.

you can probably d/l them somewhere.

 

[Reegus]

Its so easy to identify the butt hurt people who were burned last year by Richardson. I'm going to with hold judgement until a real game has been played. I drafted him as my rb3 or 4 depending on how you rank s Jackson in a 12 team standard draft

they actually played 16 of those last year.

you can probably d/l them somewhere.

And how many this year?

 

[cloppbeast]

I keep checking this thread for some relevant insight and/or information to no avail.

 

[MoveToSkypager]

Its so easy to identify the butt hurt people who were burned last year by Richardson. I'm going to with hold judgement until a real game has been played. I drafted him as my rb3 or 4 depending on how you rank s Jackson in a 12 team standard draft

TOO MANY CONSECUTIVE PREPOSITIONS