The Trump Years- Every day something more shocking than the last! (4 Viewers)

[bagger]

In my darker imaginings, I could see 5.56 shells becoming the privata pecunia of our future.

It seems like the VIX is abnormally calm during all of this but I feel it's more like a riptide, seems calm at the surface but you have a very good chance at being drug under and drown if you are not careful.

 

[fatness]

Trump’s pick to run the Labor Department, Andrew Puzder, was scheduled to appear before the Senate Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions Committee Thursday for his confirmation hearing, and Democrats and Republicans are raising red flags. But CNN reported Wednesday that there were four firm GOP votes against the nominee -- and as many as 12 opposing Republicans -- potentially dooming him.

https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2017/02/15/trump-weakened-labor-department-nominee-prepares-take-confirmation-stage/i1ROEBDuvFjOTeoJm27HYN/story.html

Puzder, the chief executive of CKE Restaurants, which runs fast food chains Hardee’s and Carl’s Jr., has already had his confirmation hearing delayed numerous times because his paperwork for the Office of Government Ethics was missing his plan to avoid financial conflicts of interest.

 

[jonessed]

There's something Trump doesn't want us to find out. He's consistently acting guilty - defecting, creating fake issues to worry about, placing blame elsewhere. At no point has he just produced his tax records and made a big show of how innocent he is. Simple common sense tells us there's something going on here and Trump doesn't want anyone to find out about it. The good investigative journalists we've seen already aren't going to stop now. 

Because Trump generally acts so timidly to non-stories?  If there is evidence let it come to light.  Right now the only thing we have is that Flynn spoke with Russia regarding sanctions in December.  He then misled Pence and was fired.  There might be more, there might not.

Depending on the specifics of what Flynn spoke about that doesn't even necessarily concern me that much.  I really don't know.  Have any details of the conversations been leaked?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

Don't listen to what he says look at what's in his heart or something yada,yada,yada.

I want to have relations with the girl in your avatar

 

[NREC34]

Or "death tax," maybe the most inspired bit of GOP re-branding ever.  Transformed "we're gonna collect revenue from rich estates so we don't have to collect as much from the labor and property of the living" into "they're even gonna tax you for dying!"  They've got a pretty strong marketing team down there in Hades.

I don't have a problem with the term death tax. That's a pretty good characterization of what it is. 

 

[ren hoek]

Gotta admire Trumpeters' commitment to truth in news, managing to steer clear of organizations trusted by the intelligence community and stick with InfoWars and 4Chan.

Gotta admire so-called liberals for finding common ground with the neocons and intelligence agencies that destroyed the middle east, massacred thousands of civilians, and ruined countless millions of lives.  

 

[packersfan]

Because Trump generally acts so timidly to non-stories?  If there is evidence let it come to light.  Right now the only thing we have is that Flynn spoke with Russia regarding sanctions in December.  He then misled Pence and was fired.  There might be more, there might not.

Depending on the specifics of what Flynn spoke about that doesn't even necessarily concern me that much.  I really don't know.  Have any details of the conversations been leaked?

We also know there was a consistent amount of dialogue between Russia and Trump's campaign during the election. We don't know what was discussed but chances are it wasn't about prime vacation resorts in Kiev.

 

[shader]

So wait: if it's all fake news and Flynn is a great guy who has been treated unfairly....

why did you fire him?

I've been wondering the same thing.  Last night Anderson Cooper (as I thought he would) asked some of the questions I've been asking.  His panel basically admitted that it would be difficult to legally charge Flynn with anything under the Logan Act.  Despite the hysteria on here about treason, the truth was that Flynn did something that would likely never draw any sort of prosecution.

So the firing of him may turn out to be a huge mistake for Trump's team.  Now you've admitted that something is wrong, and you blew the story up by a factor of 10.

 

[jonessed]

I mean, I guess I could unfairly label "bus drivers" as "death panels" too, if that's your definition of "unfair labeling."

I think that's a stretch, but it would certainly be an unfair label.

 

[Henry Ford]

Gotta admire so-called liberals for finding common ground with the neocons and intelligence agencies that destroyed the middle east, massacred thousands of civilians, and ruined countless millions of lives.  

It does seem like every free-thinking intelligent person who knows anything about government thinks your guy is a traitor, doesn't it?

 

[shader]

Because Trump generally acts so timidly to non-stories?  If there is evidence let it come to light.  Right now the only thing we have is that Flynn spoke with Russia regarding sanctions in December.  He then misled Pence and was fired.  There might be more, there might not.

Depending on the specifics of what Flynn spoke about that doesn't even necessarily concern me that much.  I really don't know.  Have any details of the conversations been leaked?

Trump going scorched earth on journalists and the intelligence community will ensure that any evidence that is out there will come to light.  He better hope he's squeaky clean, otherwise it's political suicide.

 

[The General]

 





 

 





Laura Ingraham‏ @IngrahamAngle


 




No doubt Obama Admin loyalists who were still working in new Trump gov't leaked report of this transcript.

Fake

 

[jonessed]

I've been wondering the same thing.  Last night Anderson Cooper (as I thought he would) asked some of the questions I've been asking.  His panel basically admitted that it would be difficult to legally charge Flynn with anything under the Logan Act.  Despite the hysteria on here about treason, the truth was that Flynn did something that would likely never draw any sort of prosecution.

So the firing of him may turn out to be a huge mistake for Trump's team.  Now you've admitted that something is wrong, and you blew the story up by a factor of 10.

It put Pence in a bad light and apparently he was pretty divisive.  Might as well rip the band-aid off now.

 

[jonessed]

We also know there was a consistent amount of dialogue between Russia and Trump's campaign during the election. We don't know what was discussed but chances are it wasn't about prime vacation resorts in Kiev.

They have the conversations recorded right?  If the IC has indicated there is nothing in there pertaining to campaign coordination where else is there to go?

 

[Ditkaless Wonders]

I mean, I guess I could unfairly label "bus drivers" as "death panels" too, if that's your definition of "unfair labeling."

To be fair in this unfair world I would have to limit the use of the term  "death panels" only to drivers of panel trucks, not buses.  I think that's where I am going to draw the line.  That's the ditch I have decided to die in, after consultation with my primary care physician.

 

[Henry Ford]

To be fair in this unfair world I would have to limit the use of death panels only to drivers of panel trucks, not buses.  I think that's where I am going to draw the line.  That's the ditch I have decided to die in, after consultation with my primary care physician.

I hope he or she didn't get paid for that consultation.

 

[packersfan]

What is a consistent amount?

Haven't seen a number. Just what the NY Times reported.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/russia-intelligence-communications-trump.html?_r=0

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

If Flynn lied to the FBI, that's a felony.  No need for the Logan Act.

 

[shader]

Gotta admire so-called liberals for finding common ground with the neocons and intelligence agencies that destroyed the middle east, massacred thousands of civilians, and ruined countless millions of lives.  

The truth is that people on both sides are at fault.  Lying isn't a big deal unless the other guy does it.  Accepting money unethically isn't a big deal unless the other guy does it.  Ratcheting up presidential powers doesn't scare anyone when their guy is in office, but then when their opponent gets in, it's a nightmare scenario.

Leaks are terrible when they damage your guy (Podesta emails, Trump's campaign guys & Russians), but when they are damaging to your opponent, all of a sudden you don't care about the leaks, you care about the uncovered info. (Notice how liberals will only talk about the Trump/Russian connection as being responsible for "hijacking the election", instead of the actual damaging material contained IN the podesta emails.  Also notice how republicans are all angry about the leaks and the damage coming from all these leaks inside the white house, while not giving much credence to the fact that their beloved president may have been conspiring with Russians for the last year)

 

[Coeur de Lion]

Even if he ends up being a terrible president it doesn't mean he's an idiot.  Carter was a cluster#### and a genius.  That doesn't really help either.

Time will tell.

Listen to him talk, read his tweets, look at his economic and foreign policy positions. He's an idiot.

 

[jonessed]

Haven't seen a number. Just what the NY Times reported.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/14/us/politics/russia-intelligence-communications-trump.html?_r=0

The same article says there is no evidence of collusion in those conversations.

 

[Aerial Assault]

They are doing one-way discussions generally.  I've tried to engage a few times but my replies go un-replied to.  Would be nice if they tried to engage in conversation that's more than a hit and run.

Right.  They're in full-on volume spamming mode.  No time for actual discussion!  

 

[packersfan]

The same article says there is no evidence of collusion in those conversations.

And again I'll say that I believe there's something Trump is trying to hide. I believe it's just a matter of time before it's uncovered. There's no way any good investigative reporter thinks this is over now. Not by a longshot.

 

[jonessed]

Listen to him talk, read his tweets, look at his economic and foreign policy positions. He's an idiot.

I think his temperament is ill-suited for the presidency, but that doesn't make him an idiot.

 

[squistion]

From a DKos opinion diary:

ICE agents arrest a Dreamer and DACA recipient for sleeping in his father's home

He's 23. He was brought to the U.S. when he was seven. He willingly gave his information to the federal government so he could get a legal work permit under President Obama's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. And when ICE agents showed up to detain his father, Daniel Ramirez Medina became a "collateral arrest." The L.A. Times writes:


Ramirez was sleeping at his father’s home near Seattle when agents arrived and arrested his father, for whom they had an arrest warrant, the lawsuit says.

After the arrest, according to the complaint, the agents asked Ramirez, “Are you legally here?”

“Yes, I have a work permit,” he replied, and on his brother’s advice, declined to answer further questions.

At that point, the complaint says, agents took Ramirez to a processing center in Seattle, where he again informed authorities that he had a work permit. “One of the agents stated: ‘It doesn’t matter, because you weren’t born in this country,’” the petition said.

Ramirez’s attorneys said his “unprecedented and unjustified” arrest was a clear broken promise by the federal government.



The whole point of the DACA program was that people would "come out of the shadows" to obtain permits so they could live and work here legally, among other things. That was how the federal government advertised it.

ICE officials claimed Ramirez has a history of gang membership and called him a "risk to public safety." But they didn't provide any evidence and Ramirez, who has no criminal record, rejected the assertion.



Ramirez’s attorneys, who say Ramirez has never been convicted of a crime, denied the gang claim “unequivocally” and said he was “repeatedly pressured by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to falsely admit affiliation.”
Because of course they did. They had no basis for the arrest otherwise. Tough to know who to believe, federal agents who follow kids home from school so they can arrest their parents or a guy who was nabbed sleeping on his father's couch.

Did we forget to mention that Ramirez has a 3-year-old son, a U.S. citizen? Feel safer?

#MAGA

 

[Henry Ford]

The truth is that people on both sides are at fault.  Lying isn't a big deal unless the other guy does it.  Accepting money unethically isn't a big deal unless the other guy does it.  Ratcheting up presidential powers doesn't scare anyone when their guy is in office, but then when their opponent gets in, it's a nightmare scenario.

Leaks are terrible when they damage your guy (Podesta emails, Trump's campaign guys & Russians), but when they are damaging to your opponent, all of a sudden you don't care about the leaks, you care about the uncovered info. (Notice how liberals will only talk about the Trump/Russian connection as being responsible for "hijacking the election", instead of the actual damaging material contained IN the podesta emails.  Also notice how republicans are all angry about the leaks and the damage coming from all these leaks inside the white house, while not giving much credence to the fact that their beloved president may have been conspiring with Russians for the last year)

That's simply false.  Many liberals have talked about the information in there.  Hard core Clinton supporters mostly haven't, but they're really not that liberal.  

The main issue is that no, "liberals" don't want to talk about the stupid, unbelievably idiotic conspiracy theories people were pulling out of those emails.  A lot of the stuff dealing with the DNC and coordination with news organizations has been heavily discussed by liberals.

 

[ren hoek]

It does seem like every free-thinking intelligent person who knows anything about government thinks your guy is a traitor, doesn't it?

Neocons are the free thinkers now?  That's an interesting demographic for you to form your opinions from.

I'm an anarchist and didn't vote so there is no 'my guy'.  There are plenty of things to find faults in Trump for (torture, drug policy, unblinking support for military/police, hardline terrorism stance) without resorting to madeup pretend stories.

None of the people complaining about Trump cared when Hillary Clinton was bribed by foreign governments, so they are not very 'free-thinking'.  

 

[McGarnicle]

Whenever I hear "Logan Act", I think of Lara Logan.

She's got an ### I'd like to violate until the cows come home.

 

[jonessed]

And again I'll say that I believe there's something Trump is trying to hide. I believe it's just a matter of time before it's uncovered. There's no way any good investigative reporter thinks this is over now. Not by a longshot.

I have no illusions that this will die from lack of evidence.

 

[Aerial Assault]

We also know there was a consistent amount of dialogue between Russia and Trump's campaign during the election. We don't know what was discussed but chances are it wasn't about prime vacation resorts in Kiev.

 Really.  This whole "we don't know what was discussed" line is so ridiculous.

 

[Ramblin Wreck]

Listen to him talk, read his tweets, look at his economic and foreign policy positions. He's an idiot.

This guy again. Everyone is an idiot

 

[Reg Lllama of Brixton]

Wait...did somebody actually have to have "death panels" explained to them?  

 

[The General]

Or "death tax," maybe the most inspired bit of GOP re-branding ever.  Transformed "we're gonna collect revenue from rich estates so we don't have to collect as much from the labor and property of the living" into "they're even gonna tax you for dying!"  They've got a pretty strong marketing team down there in Hades.

My favorite creative policy naming was the "clear skies act". 

 

[jonessed]

From a DKos opinion diary:

ICE agents arrest a Dreamer and DACA recipient for sleeping in his father's home

He's 23. He was brought to the U.S. when he was seven. He willingly gave his information to the federal government so he could get a legal work permit under President Obama's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program. And when ICE agents showed up to detain his father, Daniel Ramirez Medina became a "collateral arrest." The L.A. Times writes:


Ramirez was sleeping at his father’s home near Seattle when agents arrived and arrested his father, for whom they had an arrest warrant, the lawsuit says.

After the arrest, according to the complaint, the agents asked Ramirez, “Are you legally here?”

“Yes, I have a work permit,” he replied, and on his brother’s advice, declined to answer further questions.

At that point, the complaint says, agents took Ramirez to a processing center in Seattle, where he again informed authorities that he had a work permit. “One of the agents stated: ‘It doesn’t matter, because you weren’t born in this country,’” the petition said.

Ramirez’s attorneys said his “unprecedented and unjustified” arrest was a clear broken promise by the federal government.



The whole point of the DACA program was that people would "come out of the shadows" to obtain permits so they could live and work here legally, among other things. That was how the federal government advertised it.

ICE officials claimed Ramirez has a history of gang membership and called him a "risk to public safety." But they didn't provide any evidence and Ramirez, who has no criminal record, rejected the assertion.



Ramirez’s attorneys, who say Ramirez has never been convicted of a crime, denied the gang claim “unequivocally” and said he was “repeatedly pressured by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to falsely admit affiliation.”
Because of course they did. They had no basis for the arrest otherwise. Tough to know who to believe, federal agents who follow kids home from school so they can arrest their parents or a guy who was nabbed sleeping on his father's couch.

Did we forget to mention that Ramirez has a 3-year-old son, a U.S. citizen? Feel safer?

#MAGA

ICE stated he was picked up because he was a known gang member.  That's why you don't post articles from DailyKOs.  They leave stuff like that out.

That women in AZ whose family is all over the news?  Convicted felon.

I have no problem deporting people like this.

 

[PIK95]

Don't forget golfs a lot.

Don't forget about private email servers!  Oh wait....

 

[TobiasFunke]

I've been wondering the same thing.  Last night Anderson Cooper (as I thought he would) asked some of the questions I've been asking.  His panel basically admitted that it would be difficult to legally charge Flynn with anything under the Logan Act.  Despite the hysteria on here about treason, the truth was that Flynn did something that would likely never draw any sort of prosecution.

So the firing of him may turn out to be a huge mistake for Trump's team.  Now you've admitted that something is wrong, and you blew the story up by a factor of 10.

I understand the notion that you should be fired if you are prosecuted for committing a federal crime.  But are you saying that you shouldn't be fired unless you care prosecuted for committing a federal crime?  That seems ridiculous.

They had to fire him. I said it the morning the story broke.  No-doubter.  He lied to the FBI and to the administration, who then lied to the American people based on that lie.  And there was a report that he was potentially comprimised. Whatever ####storm they're enduring now would be much worse if he was still in the White House.

 

[The General]

Wait...did somebody actually have to have "death panels" explained to them?  

McCain's pick for Vice President.

 

[shader]

That's simply false.  Many liberals have talked about the information in there.  Hard core Clinton supporters mostly haven't, but they're really not that liberal.  

The main issue is that no, "liberals" don't want to talk about the stupid, unbelievably idiotic conspiracy theories people were pulling out of those emails.  A lot of the stuff dealing with the DNC and coordination with news organizations has been heavily discussed by liberals.

Hey look, personally I didn't see anything in any of those emails that surprised me.  In fact, most on this board thought they were a ridiculous non-factor before the election.  It's only now when blaming Russian/Trump connections for losing the elections that they are given importance.

 

[Henry Ford]

Neocons are the free thinkers now?  That's an interesting demographic for you to form your opinions from.

I'm an anarchist and didn't vote so there is no 'my guy'.  There are plenty of things to find faults in Trump for (torture, drug policy, unblinking support for military/police, hardline terrorism stance) without resorting to madeup pretend stories.

None of the people complaining about Trump cared when Hillary Clinton was bribed by foreign governments, so they are not very 'free-thinking'.  

Uh huh.  Absolutely.  Great series of points. I feel like an improved person now.

 

[RBM]

Joy Reid ‏@JoyAnnReid 6m6 minutes ago

This should work out well.


 

 

[The Commish]

The truth is that people on both sides are at fault.  Lying isn't a big deal unless the other guy does it.  Accepting money unethically isn't a big deal unless the other guy does it.  Ratcheting up presidential powers doesn't scare anyone when their guy is in office, but then when their opponent gets in, it's a nightmare scenario.

Leaks are terrible when they damage your guy (Podesta emails, Trump's campaign guys & Russians), but when they are damaging to your opponent, all of a sudden you don't care about the leaks, you care about the uncovered info. (Notice how liberals will only talk about the Trump/Russian connection as being responsible for "hijacking the election", instead of the actual damaging material contained IN the podesta emails.  Also notice how republicans are all angry about the leaks and the damage coming from all these leaks inside the white house, while not giving much credence to the fact that their beloved president may have been conspiring with Russians for the last year)

That's simply false.  Many liberals have talked about the information in there.  Hard core Clinton supporters mostly haven't, but they're really not that liberal.  

The main issue is that no, "liberals" don't want to talk about the stupid, unbelievably idiotic conspiracy theories people were pulling out of those emails.  A lot of the stuff dealing with the DNC and coordination with news organizations has been heavily discussed by liberals.

 

 

[squistion]

ICE stated he was picked up because he was a known gang member.  That's why you don't post articles from DailyKOs.  They leave stuff like that out.

No they didn't and you obviously didn't read what I posted.   Here again, from above:

ICE officials claimed Ramirez has a history of gang membership and called him a "risk to public safety." But they didn't provide any evidence and Ramirez, who has no criminal record, rejected the assertion.



Ramirez’s attorneys, who say Ramirez has never been convicted of a crime, denied the gang claim “unequivocally” and said he was “repeatedly pressured by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents to falsely admit affiliation.”

 

 

[Aerial Assault]

My favorite creative policy naming was the "clear skies act". 

USA PATRIOT Act (complete with silly reverse-engineered acronym) a contender as well.

 

[Coeur de Lion]

This guy again. Everyone is an idiot

Not everyone. Trump very clearly is, and you guys cheering on the disaster that is this administration very clearly are too.

 

[shader]

I understand the notion that you should be fired if you are prosecuted for committing a federal crime.  But are you saying that you shouldn't be fired unless you care prosecuted for committing a federal crime?  That seems ridiculous.

They had to fire him. I said it the morning the story broke.  No-doubter.  He lied to the FBI and to the administration, who then lied to the American people based on that lie.  And there was a report that he was potentially comprimised. Whatever ####storm they're enduring now would be much worse if he was still in the White House.

You're probably right.  I just think it's odd and I don't personally understand why the Trump team did what they did.  But hey that shouldn't surprise anyone, they are flying by the seat of their pants over there.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

I think his temperament is ill-suited for the presidency, but that doesn't make him an idiot.

He thinks climate change is a Chinese hoax and vaccines cause autism in children. He's an idiot.

 

[Reg Lllama of Brixton]

McCain's pick for Vice President.

That reminds me...

Why didn't Sarah Palin say anything about all this Russia stuff if she could see it from her own front porch?

 

[IC FBGCav]

I think his temperament is ill-suited for the presidency, but that doesn't make him an idiot.

It also doesn't make him not an idiot but it should disqualify him for the position.

 

[TobiasFunke]

The same article says there is no evidence of collusion in those conversations.

No it doesn't.  It says they have found no evidence of cooperation thus far.

It's kind of like if someone finds thousands of text messages and phone calls exchanged between their significant other and a friend they've always seemed kinda flirty with.  They might not find actual evidence of cheating as soon as they start combing through the calls and texts, but (1) they might find it as the search continues, and (2) even if they don't ... come on.  Learn to put two and two together.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

he L.A. Times writes:


Ramirez was sleeping at his father’s home near Seattle when agents arrived and arrested his father, for whom they had an arrest warrant, the lawsuit says.

After the arrest, according to the complaint, the agents asked Ramirez, “Are you legally here?”

“Yes, I have a work permit,” he replied, and on his brother’s advice, declined to answer further questions.

At that point, the complaint says, agents took Ramirez to a processing center in Seattle, where he again informed authorities that he had a work permit. “One of the agents stated: ‘It doesn’t matter, because you weren’t born in this country,’” the petition said.

Ramirez’s attorneys said his “unprecedented and unjustified” arrest was a clear broken promise by the federal government.

He was brought to the U.S. when he was seven. He willingly gave his information to the federal government so he could get a legal work permit under President Obama's Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA) program.

- I was actually thinking about this earlier - does anyone know the status of DACA? Does it somehow overlap with what Trump is doing, or has it been overwritten?

- Did Trump obsolete Obama's EO with another EO? Or is Obama's EO still in place?

- The 5th Circuit, like the 9th Circuit with Trump, I thought had brushed back Obama's EO. Am I wrong on this?