Terminalxylem
Footballguy
And who really cares if we need annual, or even bi-annual boosters until the pandemic is controlled? You guys act like they are harvesting organs.
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The Unofficial Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, MD thread. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter NorvilleBarnes
- Start date
KingPrawn
Footballguy
parasaurolophus
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Max Power
Footballguy
Guy is a Class A dope. Says it's too soon to say whether you will be able to spend Christmas with family on Face the Nation. Quickly backtracks saying he's spending Christmas with his family.
(Are people really still avoiding family gatherings? WTH is wrong with people?)
Guy changes his mind every time the wind blows. Does a 180 on everything he says.
(Are people really still avoiding family gatherings? WTH is wrong with people?)
Guy changes his mind every time the wind blows. Does a 180 on everything he says.
The Big Donkey
Footballguy
he's gotten to the point where a lot of people just don't listen to him at all. it's impressive. dr flip flop.
The guy’s been intentionally lying right along about what it would take to achieve herd immunity. And he most likely was lying about not needing masks so as to have them available for healthcare workers. Turn out Americans don’t like liars, and he’s lost all credibility. The little guy needs to be fired.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I kind of hope he "cancels" Christmas. If you're putting your family holiday plans on hold waiting to see what Fauci decides, you deserve every ounce of misery and loneliness you sign onto.
OTOH, depending on your family - it could be the perfect out.
OTOH, depending on your family - it could be the perfect out.
Mile High
Footballguy
Chaz McNulty
Footballguy
Fauci was asked on Face the Nation if it would be ok to have family gatherings for Christmas and he said it was "too early to tell".
Yeah hes a ####### clownFauci was asked on Face the Nation if it would be ok to have family gatherings for Christmas and he said it was "too early to tell".
unckeyherb
Footballguy
This #### pisses me off. What needed interpretting? He wasn't speaking in metaphors.
She asked: "...but we can gather for Christmas? Or its just too soon to tell?"
He answered: "You know Margaret, it's just too soon to tell."
Where is the amiguity or nuance that needs interpretation? Its a ####### binary question. And an absurd one at that-who in their right mind is not gathering with their family on Christmas based on the dictates of Fauci?
God, this guy needs to go.
the moops
Footballguy
Do you wish he said we could end this pandemic in approximately 2 weeks if all the unvaxxed knuckleheads would go ahead and get their shots?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
What's another lie at this point?the moops said:
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
If the question was so absurd, perhaps the reporter needs to go?unckeyherb said:
Also FTR, some people are still avoiding large family gatherings.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
I thought (s)he was joking? Surely people realize nobody is able to know when covid will “end”?the moops said:
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Fine get rid of her. If you are vaccinated and the rest of your family is as well and you are avoiding family gatherings there is something wrong with you. Sorry but the insanely heightened levels of risk aversion this pandemic has produced is sad.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Some problems with your reasoning:
1. Not all families are fully vaccinated.
2. Not all family members are immunocompetent.
3. Covid caseload and healthcare utilization is not uniform.
4. Some places have mandates prohibiting large gatherings.
And we all know vaccinated people can contract and spread it. Would you meet with vaccinated family if you knew you were infected? For the sake of discussion, let’s say it was discovered on screening for international travel, but you were asymptomatic.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
I didn’t say all. I said if you and all of your family ARE vaccinated. Immunocompromised people have to make different choices than the vast majority of folks who are not. If I was asymptomatic but had COVID I’d let everyone know and have a dialogue with them I suppose. The end result would probably be that I wouldn’t go. I’m vaccinated and in good health as are all of my family members. If my little sister was positive and asymptomatic I’d still have her over for Christmas dinner.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
Ok. But it's fairly common that someone in the family isn't vaccinated, or has increased risk from covid due to age, illness or immunocompromise.
I also don't think it's ideal to put the onus on others to manage an individual's behavior, once they know they're infected. You welcoming your infected sister is different than creating a situation where people have to speak up to keep loved ones away. Open invitation or not, I would hope the person with covid would isolate rather than put others at risk.
ETA I noticed you ignored points 3 and 4 above. Arguably, those are the most relevant for "insanely heightened levels of risk aversion" which might deter family gatherings.
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Mookie
Footballguy
Yes, I was being sarcastic. So many of the questions Fauci has to answer are not black and white, and the answer depends on the circumstances.the moops said:
If he and his immediate family (5-10 people), who are all vaccinated, get together for Christmas dinner, they are fine. If a family of 50, consisting of vaxx'd and unvaxx'd, get together for an entire weekend, including asthmatics and 90 year old Aunt Edna, it's going to end badly. A lot also depends upon current vaccination and infection rates in that particular area in December.
Instead of considering all of these variables, it's far easier to just label him a liar. That is the toxic messaging that appeases those who refuse to get vaccinated, or those who view a pandemic as a political issue.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
I didn't respond to 3 and 4 because I actually don't think they factor in much at all frankly.
3. Covid caseload and healthcare utilization is not uniform. There are many people in my community that I know personally, who have been fully vaccinated, that have yet to go to a restaurant and would not go to a dinner party, for instance. There is no overwhelming covid caseload in my area and all of these people have good health insurance and access to top notch healthcare. Caseload is not factoring into their decision to stay at home, ignoring the fact that they are vaccinated.
4. Some places have mandates prohibiting large gatherings. I'm not aware of any such restrictions around me, but I could be wrong. I would concede that mandates such as those probably do contribute to the heightened level of risk aversion I mentioned earlier. I'd argue that that is a bad thing. There doesn't seem to be any end in sight and the targets keep shifting as to when we all can get back to normal. Along the way, people's ability to weigh the very minimal risk of Covid (if vaccinated) with the obvious rewards of living a normal life are further dwindling. As stated earlier I think that is a ad state of affairs. An anecdote to put a point on this; in my school district there are a growing number of parents that are vocally in favor of requiring masks in schools ad infinitum, regardless of what happens with Covid. A policy like that two years ago would have gotten at best an eyeroll. Now its being heralded by an admittedly small but growing group.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
I mean, of course, but that is not really representative of a vast number of family structures. Decisions need to be made by the family of Aunt Edna. More to the point, the question asked was not giving some outlier, multiple asthmatics in a group of 50 unvaccinated people. It was simply, can we gather for Christmas. Coming from the anchorwoman conducting the interview, I'd assume that she was vaccinated. His response was its too early to tell. That isn't toxic messaging, its literally the exact context and words that were used.
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Max Power
Footballguy
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
You made a blanket statement about people’s decisions. I simply pointed out all communities are not the same, and your experience may not apply for the entire country. For example, Alaska’s healthcare system is extremely taxed right now. Hawaii still has mask mandates and restrictions on large gatherings. Someone opting out of a big holiday gathering in those places isn’t acting irrationally.
The disease is dynamic, so there’s no reason to believe the guidance won’t adjust along the way. We need to be patient and stop arbitrarily insisting a return to normalcy, when the situation we’re in is anything but normal.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
I didn't say big holiday gathering and neither did the interviewer. "We can gather for Christmas?" is all she said and he said "too early to tell." Not, "too early to tell if you have an old aunt" or "too early to tell if you are in Hawaii" or "too early to tell if your hospital is running at 102% capacity". The blanket statement came from him. Not quantifying or qualifying, simply too early to tell. This guy is living on planet Neptune.
Whatever, I'm not going to go 15 rounds here. I think that someone opting out of spending Christmas day with their family is irrational. You don't. No problem.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
The point is, it may or may not be reasonable to gather for the holidays, and characterizing those who abstain as having “insanely elevated levels of risk aversion” or “irrational” ignores a lot of nuance. For some people, and for some gatherings, it is “too early to tell.”
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Face the Nation, it’s right there in the name. Finding some obscure example for some people doesn’t discount how absurd his statement was on that stage to that audience.
I guess you could argue that the fact that he always flip flops is the reason he flopped rather than it being flat out absurd. But it’s both. He’s a clown show.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
It doesn’t ignore nuance. You’re right. For some people it may be too early to tell. That’s not who he was speaking to. He was speaking to everyone. He’s culpable in raising the levels of irrationality.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
When speaking to everyone, one needs to err on the side of caution. As a public health official, he can’t assume we’re all on the same page regarding covid risk - look no further than this forum if you believe otherwise.
Considering the % of the population who is unvaccinated or have waning immunity and chronic medical conditions predisposing to severe covid, plus regional variation in healthcare resources, it’s likely the majority of the country has reason to pause before committing to holiday gatherings.
unckeyherb
Footballguy
Completely disagree. He could have easily said “if you are vaccinated and your family is vaccinated, eat as much turkey as you can and hug your loved ones. If you’re not you need to exercise caution and make the best decisions you feel for you and your family.” That would be based in reality. His response was not.
And he’d still be attacked for singling out the unvaccinated. He’s in a no win situation with critics. No matter how he answers the question his critics will come after him.
If he goes to one extreme or the other, he’ll get ripped if he changes from the response in the next 3 months no matter what happens.
If he doesn’t give a response or say that it’s up to the family, you’d criticize him about that too. The better question is why does his response matter so much to those who hate him and aren’t going to listen to his advise anyway?
His answer was the correct one. May 1st if you were asking how the summer would go, I doubt many were predicting the wave that happened. We don’t know what’s going to happen between now and then. We can all hope that the unvaccinated and ultra high risk are the only ones that need to worry but we simply don’t know.
But the best thing most of you can do is to stop listening and caring what Fauci says. You’re not going to listen to him, so why do you care?
glvsav37
Footballguy
oh for fuques sake??!! If I wasn't such a Disney fan i'd be canceling my Disney+ subscription. Really Disney? Do me a favor, stick to fairy tales, they are more believable than this guy.
Terminalxylem
Footballguy
He also could’ve said that in July. Fast forward two months, and delta would’ve proved him wrong. I see no problem in acknowledging a lot can change as the virus and circumstances evolve.
The reality is, we still have too many unvaccinated people, plus people with waning immunity, and a healthcare infrastructure unsuited for large surges. We also have plenty of burnt out healthcare providers.
Regardless, I don’t understand why you and others get so upset when he expresses some level of uncertainty moving forward. This won’t last forever, but declaring it over out of frustration does nothing to expedite a return to normalcy, nor does mocking people whose opinion differs from your own.
ETA what @Biff84 said
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Shutout
Footballguy
no, you tell HIM when it ends. That's part of the problem. People don't need to follow ineffective "leaders".
GordonGekko
Footballguy
Fauci's job is not to pick the narrative that absolves him from public criticism.
His job is to save lives and to do so with clear consistent simple messaging. A large part of the problem is he's a camera hog who loves to hear his voice in public and loves the new celebrity status he's garnered in the last year or so.
How many people had to die so Fauci could mug for the camera just one more time?
He puts himself in a no win situation. The more he talks, and he won't stop shoving his face in a camera, the more he gives himself a chance to flip flop, which he keeps doing, to the point where now he's tuned out. He's supposed to be the voice of "science"
People can understand why Biden and Trump screwed this all up. It doesn't make it any of it right but they understand neither of them "know the science"
Fauci however has no such excuse. It's his job to be the harbor in the tempest. To be the overall reassuring voice of reason and pragmatism.
The fact that Fauci moves with what will get him criticized the least is pathetic. It's repugnant.
Do your job.
Don't behave in a manner that is suited to just saving your public ego in your own eyes, at the cost of real lives, because you are too fragile to hear criticism for actually not doing your job.
What's the greatest compliment you can give another man? That he's steady. That he is reliable. That when his brothers need him the most, he's there and he delivers. That his word is his bond and his integrity can't be bought. That his only fear is to not be on the spot to fulfill his enduring obligation to his duties.
When the world falls apart around you, how you rise or fall, that defines you as a man. It defines the man you are and it defines the kind of man you will always be.
I will not defend Fauci's lack of resolve. I will not defend his lack of duty. I will not defend his lack of masculinity. People died so he could bask in the glow of worthless external validation. He's got blood on his hands. Disgusting.
Joe Mammy
Footballguy
Not me. I don't have any understanding of Biden screwing this up. You are totally wrong here my fellow FBG.
I don't blame Fauci, he's trying to do his job. I blame the one above who directly lied to me and you and did his best to squelch Fauci with brilliant quips like this,
"It's like the flu. No big deal. Gone by Easter."
"It’s going to disappear one day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”
“A lot of people think that goes away in April, with the heat, as the heat comes in, typically that will go away in April.”
“Now we know it. It affects elderly people. Elderly people with heart problems and other problems. But they have other problems, that’s what it really affects, that’s it.” He added: “But it affects virtually nobody. It’s an amazing thing.”
"I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in a minute, one minute, and is there a way we can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning?"
“Because you see it gets in the lungs and it does a tremendous number on the lungs, so it’d be interesting to check that.”
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
IvanKaramazov
Footballguy
I agree that Fauci isn't quite as bad as Trump. It's quite telling that that's the best defense he's got at this point.
GordonGekko
Footballguy
VIDEO: Krystal and Saagar: Fauci ADMITS LIVE government lied about masks to preserve supplies Jun 18, 2020
Krystal and Saagar react to Dr. Fauci's interview where he admits health officials downplayed the importance of masks to save PPE for healthcare workers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2MmX2U2V3c
VIDEO: DHS report: China hid coronavirus' severity in order to hoard medical supplies
The country engaged in a coverup in January as it boosted imports of masks and surgical gowns, the document says.
By Abigail Williams, Dan De Luce and Associated Press May 4, 2020, 5:55 AM PDT
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/national-security/dhs-report-china-hid-coronavirus-severity-order-hoard-medical-supplies-n1199221
DIRECT HEADLINE: Fauci and U.S. Funding for the Wuhan Lab
Money is fungible and its provision to any adversary is wrong.
John Spisak Aug. 1, 2021 11:12 am ET
https://www.wsj.com/articles/fauci-wuhan-lab-funding-gain-of-function-11627684856
*******
What part of Fauci's job is openly lying to the American people? He literally admits to lying to the American people.
Fauci is supposed to be the "face of science" and the "voice of science" regarding the pandemic.
Saagar Enjeti makes a good point. The American people would have rationally understood that front line health care workers needed the more effective masks as a matter of public health in the early and brutal days of the pandemic. And Enjeti points out that Americans would have been willing to improvise something - wear a scarf, wear a bandana, make their own masks, they would have done something to bridge the gap until more mask resources were available.
You can't lie to the people and expect them to trust you.
The people expect politicians to lie to them, not health care officials with a duty to save lives.
But of course Fauci will lie, it deflects away from the accusations that China hoarded PPE and his clear quid pro quo relationship with the CCP. Because it makes him look bad.
Do you notice a trend here?
Fauci's gigantic ego demands that he looks heroic to the American people, even if he has to lie to do it. Even if those lies kill people.
Fauci's gigantic ego demands he becomes a relentless self serving camera hog who will mug for any face time in the national daily media cycle, even if it creates more pathways for him to lie and flip flop causing more Americans to mistrust "science" and tune out all science. Even if those selfish actions kill people.
Fauci's gigantic ego demands that he sells his integrity like a cheap two dollar whore at closing time because he's too fragile to admit he's wrong or that he made a mistake. Even if doing what avoids public criticism ends up killing people.
Fauci is helping to kill Americans because he desires to be a political force but he is completely and totally incompetent at it.
Think about what a repugnant pathetic reason that becomes to allow innocent people to die.
